Royal fails to take French Socialist party but fights on

It was a wild and crazy night for the French Socialist party. The final duel for the leadership between two sister enemies turned into an inconclusive brawl. There is blood on the floor this morning but no new chief.

Martine Aubry, the Iron Lady of Lille, emerged just 42 votes ahead of Ségolène Royal, the former presidential candidate who is seen as a usurper by most of the old guard. (Late Saturday update, the margin is down to 30 after a recount)

Royal, 55, is, as usual, crying foul and casting herself as the victim of a conspiracy to block the will of the party members. She is refusing to accept the result and demanding another vote by the long-suffering militants, as the members are called. Only 58 percent of the 230,000 militants bothered to vote in last night's run-off. A first round on Thursday eliminated Benoît Hamon, the young leftist who was also in the running.   

Royal's lieutenants are accusing Aubry's camp of cheating in two regions in particular -- her own fiefdom in the north and the Normandy region that is home to Laurent Fabius, one of her old guard backers. Aubry's people insist that she is the winner but they acknowledge that the hair's breadth edge of 0.04 percent raises a question of legitimacy.

The results were officially announced but no victor declared. The matter is now going to be decided by a meeting of the party's National Council on Wednesday. François Hollande, the outgoing leader and former partner of Royal, said this morning that it would be up to the Council -- the party's parliament -- to decide whether or not to ratify the result. Royal is unhappy with this because her camp holds only about a third of the council, which was elected at last weekend's disastrous party congress in Rheims.

So the result is a nightmare for France's main opposition party at a time when it could be making the most of the economic crunch to regain credibility as an alternative to President Sarkozy. His people are delighted at the Jacobean tragicomedy playing out at the rue Solférino, the Socialists' leftbank headquarters -- which Ségo has promised to sell when she takes over.  Frédéric Lefebvre, the gunslinger spokesmen of Sarko's UMP party, congratulated the Socialists on their decision to self-destruct. "It is an enfeebled party, split into two camps that hate one-another," he said this morning. He predicted that a new run-off vote would be called.

No doubt the party will survive what amounts to its worst crisis since the late François Mitterrand launched it in 1971 on the ruins of the old SFIO leftwing movement. It remains a powerful machine on the local level, holding a majority of big city and regional councils.

But it will be tainted for years by the civil war between the unpredictable, self-promoting Royal and the traditionalist who are lined up behind Aubry. If Aubry, an uncharismatic, low-key manager, is confirmed as the new leader, the Royalists will continue to resist behind their champion. "Saint Ségo", as her opponents call her, is hellbent on a rematch against Sarkozy in the next presidential election, in 2012. Losing the leadership will not stop her. "It's like a horror movie when they kill the monster but it keeps on coming back," a senior parliamentarian who is no fan of Royal told me.

The feud has become so much a clash of personalities that no-one is bothering much to look at the implications for future policy and doctrine. In reality there is not much difference on that front between Ségo and Titine, the nickname that a few admirers apply to the mayor of Lille. Despite their chalk-and-cheese characters, they have similar backgrounds as Parisian Catholics from the civil service elite who entered politics as staffers in the Mitterrand administration of the 1980s. Both were centrists who have recently shifted leftward in tune with the mood of France.

Let's hope they don't have another vote. I've waited until the small hours for the past two days to write up the new leader for the newspaper. The picture was so volatile around midnight that I wrote a 'Royal wins' piece and then an 'Aubry wins' and then had to scrap both of them.

[Below: atmospheric AFP picture of Royal in  her car last night]

 

 

Comments

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[Pals]

Aubry supporters are already melting down the family heirlooms - inherited from Jaures and blessed by Mitterand - to cast into silver bullets; or going into the gloomy socialist forest to cut down trees that they will then chop up, sharpening the splinters into stakes to drive through a certain monster's heart - if said 'monster' should come back for another go at the party jugular.

As the saying goes: "La reine est morte; vive la famille Royale".

[Romain]

Charles,

Have you not noticed there are no comments posted at today's date ? There must be a bug somewhere.

[Yes there is a bug. There are a couple of dozen comments on recent threads at least which have vanished. We are trying to sort it out. CB]

[Nick]

Dear Charles, I've enjoyed and appreciated your insight into French life and politics for years. I've also been rather jealous that your job gives you access to the famous, powerful and sometimes beautiful over here.

So I have to be ashamed for permitting myself the tiniest of smiles at your two recent late nights.

Good to know though that you covered both eventualities, professionalism always wins in the end !

[Balbou]

The UMP members should soften their delight. There is a rule in democracy, that says that if your opponent are too weak, you're the one in big trouble.

Remember 93-97 legislation : the right wing RPR had a stunning win. Elections gave them control over most of the institutions. Maybe feeling invincible, they started to quarrel with each other, each one trying to get his piece of the big cake. In 97, Chirac had no other choice than to dissolve the parliament, dissolving his very own majority at the same time.

btw, for the same reason, though I'm supporting the Dems and Obama, I don't want them to get their super majority.

[John]

The hilarious thing is they had to wait for the results of the vote in Guadeloupe at 5am Paris time to know if Aubry was still ahead of Royal.

It's strange that the Caribbean doesn't vote ahead of Metropolitan France just like in the French general elections.

[Romain]

Too close to call ! The worst case scenario, it would be funny if the recount would give a two votes lead to Segolène. I like the photo, it reminds me of the song "listen to the music of the falling rain".

[dot king]

CHARLES: re THE BUG - I noticed that when I posted on another thread yesterday, it created a new one, working from the top down and noit showing the ones already existing.

The "missing" comments are there somewhere, but while they appear by the poster's name in your list, we can't access them.

Hope this is helpful. as to the topic of this thread, I'm struck dumb.
Medal for long endurance to you though! :)

[dot king]

"listen to the music of the falling rain".

Posted by: Romain | 22 Nov 2008 14:47:28

Close - it's "rhythm" not "music".
BTW it was the Queen Mum who made see-through brollies fashionable in the UK. (Just threw that in for free :)

[Daniel Strohl]

"She is refusing to accept the result and demanding another vote by the long-suffering militants, as the members are called" (CHARLES)

I like Charles's expression "long suffering" :). Many ordinary French, myself included, are also "long suffering" and fed up with this tragicomedy based on internal never-ending clan wars. Ils n'ont aucune vergogne ...

JOHN,

"The hilarious thing is they had to wait for the results of the vote in Guadeloupe at 5am Paris time to know if Aubry was still ahead of Royal"

LOL ! I heard a member of Mrs. Aubry staff muttering yesterday evening something about "république bananière". Now I have got what he implied :)

[Romain]

The gap is now 18 votes, still counting... I predict a riot, lol.

[John]

Apparently they forgot to count the votes in New Caledonia where Ségolène Royal had 20 more votes than Martine Aubry. I wonder why. With New Caledonia included in the total tally, Royal would be the winner.

[véro]

the brawl for the leadership looks pretty messy, doesn't it???

[Richard]

Sad day for French PS and for the future democratic debate in France...

[Robert Marchenoir]

It's bad enough that Aubry's supporters feted her short victory by singing l'Internationale. On top of that, those wretched neo-marxists made Charles Bremner write his copy three times instead of one.

I thought Martine Aubry, the so-called Madame 35 heures, promoted shorter workdays for the toiling masses, not longer. I suppose this law works in reverse for evil Anglo-Saxons lurking on French soil, and writing for conservative newspapers (hence the punishment: not just twice the workload, but three times as much).

[christopher muir]

The New Caledonians must feel quite offended. A quick search shows that in April 06 Ségolène Royal said on TF1, “I think that the moment for women has arrived. Not for women but simply for the harmony of life.”

Surely the fact that the recent run-off was between two women should have in itself given Ségo immense satisfaction. Instead, she comes out of the contest appearing like a mean spirit - whatever the final count might be. (Hillary Clinton demonstrated how to handle defeat.)

[Romain]

Dot,

Right, it was the rythm of the falling rain, by the Cascades, loved that song. Also related to the topic is "les parapluies de Cherbourg", I digged up a great performance by Liza Minelli : "If it takes forever I will wait for you":

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=2tedB7xZB2M&feature=related

We have a rainy Sunday here, in Euskadi.

[Maggie]

This isn't the correct place, but with our technical problem it would take half an hour to click out way to the end of the Vichy thread, so I'm putting this here.

For anyone who's interestered, there's a review of "The Shameful Peace: How French Artists and Intellectuals Survived the Nazi Occupation" in todays books section (Sunday Times).

(Sorry, I'm too stupid to know how to provide a link. Go to the top of this page, click on "home", then on "arts and entertainment", then on "books".)

If any of the French people here find it too critical for comfort, keep reading, because the last sentence says, "Some of us feel too uncertain of how we ourselves would have behaved under occupation to pass merciless judgment on France's aesthetes for their dalliances with tyranny".

[valerie]

My goodness, it makes you glad that Sarko won, doesn't it.

[Rick]

Rien de plus féodale que le perti (sic) socialiste, avec toutes ses histoires de barons et fiefs.

[dot king]

Romain: a very good find indeed - and I couldn't remember the name of the group The Cascades.

It's only wet underfoot here today in VsB, but, whilst waiting for those "thousand summers" I could be . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmCpOKtN8ME

PS: GK always said Liza's mother was "a good hoofer"

[christopher muir]

I came across TeleLibre Fr by chance today. It looks like it's trying to break new ground in the presentation of video news. A sort of informal, tongue in cheek wandering into the centre of things. Perhaps it's worth giving it a few minutes of viewing time.

http://latelelibre.fr/index.php/2008/11/elections-ps-cest-une-femme/

[John Gregory Flinn]

BALBOU has a point; and maybe a Social Democrat grouping will emerge and include Bayrou. Even a few in the UMP might join it.

Actually M. Aubry's 35 hour week is not in the best interests of the "working class".
It limits their ability and independence - both collective and individual - to trade their skills and labour with the owners of an enterprise.
This was a problem in the USSR where trade unions developed quasi-state functions and thus completed the totalitarian nature of industry effectively outlawing free choice.

[Rocket]

Maggie

"(Sorry, I'm too stupid to know how to provide a link. Go to the top of this page, click on "home", then on "arts and entertainment", then on "books".)"

Highlight the link.

ex your link

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/non-fiction/article5199751.ece

right click mouse and click copy

then go to target such as comments on CB blog.

Put cursor on target and right click mouse and click paste et voilà

Using the keyboard, you can also sustitute control C for copy and control V for paste. In this case don't click on mouse after highlighting

If the link is to long you may have to use tinyurl so shorten the link with code.

[Rocket]

Christopher

"appearing like a mean spirit -"

I think she has proven that she is amean spirit.

[Rick]

Perhaps you miss the point, MAGGIE, when you draw attention to Max Hastings’ last sentence: ‘Some of us feel too uncertain of how we ourselves would have behaved under occupation to pass merciless judgment on France's aesthetes for their dalliances with tyranny’.

In my humble opinion, most of us KNOW that, under similar circumstances, we would at times have behaved quite abjectly. Worse, we know that, even in the unlikely event of us having a heroic streak, circumstances would nonetheless have determined that we behaved badly. How ‘low’ can we stood if our family is threatened? Why, the question answers itself!

So obvious indeed is Hastings’ point that it should not need stating. That’s why the ad hominem question ‘what would you have done in the circs?’ is impertinent, as well as illogical... and from it emanates a faintest whiff of ‘mauvaise foi’.

[Patrick Pepper]

Hi John Gregory. A new Social Democrat grouping including Bayrou? Well, maybe, but I doubt there'll be one including Bayrou AND Royal. One is as egocentric as the other. MoDem might as well be called MoBayrou, because it's clearly just a vehicle for his personal ambitions and vanity. Royal wants something that might as well be called MoSego for the same reasons. They have something else in common too - both have opportunistically tacked right and then left in the course of their career. But putting them in the same party? That would mean one of them being No.2 and neither of them have any interest in that. If they had, Royal would today be accepting Aubry's leadership in the interests of the PS, and Bayrou would not have split the old Giscard centrists in half.

[Maggie]

A French friend (who is very anti-left) told me scornfully the other day that Martine Aubry is an alcoholic, and that this has been widely known for years.

I checked around a bit and found someone else who said that she had been a "heavy drinker" for awhile, but seemed to be recovered now.

This hasn't been mentioned once on this blog, and as far as I know, hasn't been mentioned in the media either (although I haven't followed it closely).

Is this because
A it isn't true?
B nobody is aware of the problem?
C this is considererd a private matter in France?
D she has overcome the problem -- it's the "past", and everybody knows it?
E everybody, including Segolene, is too kind to mention it?
F it's a taboo subject in France?
G it's another example of press deference to the political establishment?

It seems to me that in an anglo-saxon country, a drinking problem in a national public figure would be something that would be considered relevant information for public disclosure, so I am kind of curious to know why it hasn't been mentioned here. This has been an exceptionally bitter contest, and these two women are supposed to really detest each other, so why the silence on this subject?

[rocket]

Maggie

"This has been an exceptionally bitter contest, and these two women are supposed to really detest each other, so why the silence on this subject?"

Because God knows what the other is hiding in her closet.

That's usually the real reason behind the so called French "discretion".

[azloon]

Romain/Dot

re Cascades

'one-hit wonders' (as they are called here). quintet from san diego, ca. song got as high ats #3 on our 'hit parade' in january, 1963 and stayed on the list for 13 weeks.*

* info from one of my more important reference works, "The Billboard Book of Top 40 Hits, 1955 to Present,' published in 1983.

---------

Roquet:

re unauthorized access to private info

http://government.zdnet.com/?p=4203

---------

Rick

i do think it's fair to ask what one would have done in a particular, anguishing, and dangerous situation.

it is, no more or no less, moral preparation to hold oneself accountable if ever actually faced with it.

one will either succeed, or fail to live up his or her moral obligations/expectations.

this is why military organizations often have 'codes of conduct' for it's members -- to prepare them for the dreaded likelihood of finding oneself with a horrible choice.

any other approach is letting oneself off the hook, imo.

[Romain]

On the match sheet, Aubry was supposed to win by a large margin, with the displacement of votes from Delanoe (not FDR) and Hamon (not 2 Tank Hamon).
However, this was a case of "Bradley effect" as in "(brade les) cotisations à 20€" or subsriptions fees on sale at 20€.
This is a free market, ain't it ?
Now, they are suing each other over irregularities. Its raining cats and dogs, en français : il tombe des hallebardes.

[Daniel Strohl]

MAGGIE,

Re : Martine Aubry

It is a rumour which existed well before the other day's elections. But a rumour, even if it has been (mega)multiplied on the Internet, is not a proof.

I have to point out that I am not a fan of Mrs. Aubry or of the Parti Socialiste at large :). However, Mrs. Aubry must have some good points, since she was reelected as mayor of Lille with a
66 % vote. I heard this on TV a few days ago - I hope I got the figure right.

[dot king]

"the dreaded likelihood of finding oneself with a horrible choice."
AZLOON

http://www.npr.org/blogs/newsandviews/2008/09/what_did_you_do_in_the_war_dad.html

[Rick]

AZLOON, you made an important qualification, I think: ‘in a particular, anguishing, and dangerous situation’. This changes the complexion of matter, and I would agree – about a particular situation. But don’t you do the whole unspeakably awful ‘Occupation’ experience less than justice, terming it ‘a situation’?

Albert Camus used a metaphor in writing about the Occupation – the plague. And isn’t a plague less of a ‘situation’; more of a ‘condition’ - one of the effects whereof being that nobody, but nobody is ipso facto immune to the bacillus?

That said, I’ll confess to a measure of ‘intellectualising’, even ‘preciousness’; that’s why your remarks about codes of conduct and mental preparation seem so damn sane, sensible and practical. Perhaps it’s a New World ‘can-do’ attitude thing. But then you are theorising on a blog....

To get back to the point, mocking (and that includes smirking, even) any Europeans for what they endured while occupied is despicable. It’s obvious. Mocking evasiveness is altogether another matter, hence permissible, don’t you think?

[Maggie]

"In my humble opinion, most of us KNOW that, under similar circumstances, we would at times have behaved quite abjectly.....That’s why the ad hominem question ‘what would you have done in the circs?’ is impertinent, as well as illogical." (Rick)

Rick, there are two aspects to it, arent there? I think the French are criticized not so much for how they behaved during the occupation, but how they have dealt with it SINCE. That is, they have tended to sweep the issue under the rug rather than admit it openly and frankly.

Perhaps they HAVE dealt with it openly, but not to the extent that the Germans have, and this is why they are critisized, I THINK.

At least SOME people judge them for this. I suppose there are others who judge the original behaviour during the war.

It's true that many other people would have behaved the same if they had been occupied. But would everyone have behaved the same AFTERWARDS? Is this something that the critics can judge for themselves -- how THEY would have confronted the issue afterwards, compared to the French?

[Daniel Strohl]

ROMAIN,

"il tombe des hallebardes"

Pire : ça tombe comme à Gravelotte :)

[Maggie]

Daniel,

Thank-you to responding to my question about Martine Aubry.

The thing that interests me is not so much whether it is true or false, but why it was not an issue.

But you say that it was a "mega rumour" on the internet, so this means that it WAS an issue.

All the more reason, I would think, to bring the question out into the open and clear it up.

Actually, I was wrong to mention that this was a "particularly bitter" contest. Really, that has nothing to do with it.

It's just that if there is an important election coming up, and people are seriously considering which candidate would be better for the job, if one of them has a problem with alcohol, that is just something that would be naturally included in the calculations. Not out of méchanceté, but just because of common sense.

My friend did not hear this "rumour" on the internet; she has just barely learned to send e-mails at this point, and does not read blogs or internet news reports. We were talking about Segolene Royal, and then she said that Martine Aubry was "even worse" -- that she was an alcoholic and that this was no secret -- it had been common knowledge for years.

What I was wondering about was why, if it was true, nobody seemed concerned about it, and why, if it was false, nobody was trying to set the record straight.

[azloon]

Rick --

i do imagine sometimes how i might have behaved in certain extreme situations, such as finding myself living in Belfast, or Saraevjo, during the sectarian violence, trying to raise young children. i am quite certain i would have tried, even at the risk of getting snuffed, to somehow get my family out of that situation. that certainly isn't heroic, though. just survival instinct, and a passion to protect my family. i certainly know i would have taken my family out of ireland in the 1840s, as my great-grandfather did, facing starvation under cruel british rule.

but would i have felt the same way - get my family away from evil - if i had lived in france when the nazi's took over? that's not clear in my mind. would their threat have struck me as as perilous as the violence in the other examples? don't know. would i have known instinctively that evil forces were infecting me and my countrymen, and that i should do something? don't know. i'd like to think so, but that's a facile mental exercise. but i often have rattling around in my head the state motto our state of new hampshire which is 'live free or die.' if everyone in a country were indoctrinated in that sentiment, from an early age, i don't think there's any doubt that resistance to any tyranny would spring up quite naturally.

i sometimes think the nazi experience in france must have been a bit like throwing a frog (no offense intended, mes amis francaises) into cold water and then killing it gradually by slowly heating up the water. the nazi effect on france was pernicious but not not immediately identifiable as evil, much as a person enlists another person in evil activity by slowly getting them to compromise their standards, bit by bit, until they are morally susceptible to take the final small step into the previously unthinkable.

if germany had invaded france and immediately begun sending ordinary (non-jewish) french citizens to concentration camps, the resistance, i think, would have been quite different -- more vigorous and widespread. this would have been the equivalent of throwing the frog into hot water, in which case the frog immediately jumps out upon feeling the scalding temperature.

instead, the water was warmed slowly, until the french no longer were entirely aware of the damage that was being inflicted on their souls. and at that point, it certainly was a plague.

[azloon]

Rick --

the first sentence in my last post i deleted by mistake:

"i don't pretend to be qualified to judge others, in any horrific circumstance, including the french --the aesthetes, and any others, for anything they did or didn't do during the nazi occupation."

yes, yes, mocking evasiveness, or even better, confronting it, is not only permissible, but to be encouraged. and i must say, tho i don't judge the french, the occupation of their country reinforces my profound sadness about human capacity for regrettable behavior. but, hell, the presidency of george bush has had that effect on me too.

[Fernandez]

Congrats, Nico!

(I want to be the first to congratulate Nicolas Sarkozy on winning the 2012 election.)

[Ros]

Charles says "A first round on Thursday eliminated Benoît Hamon, the young leftist who was also in the running" - well, what's odd about him being a "leftist" as he belongs to the Socialist Party? Charles has to get his favourite word in somewhere!

[Daniel Strohl]

MARY FERNANDEZ,

"(I want to be the first to congratulate Nicolas Sarkozy on winning the 2012 election.)"

LOL !

But people have a strong ability to forget things :)

[Heinz Koenig]

The frog did not jump out in France, hence the anglo/saxon world is on the back of the French. Why not on the back of some other countries. There has been no larger foreign contingency in the SS batallions heading for Moscow than the Dutch. All volunteers, drafted with ease. The agrresiveness in NL towards the former commanders of those batallions is intense, as is the hostility amongst some islanders who had a strong nazi movement as well.
What I try to say with due respect is that there would have been only the few heros in all countries resisting openly to a situation like in France. Fortunately these people never had to prove the opposite.
Heinz Koenig

[dot king]

Surely the best way to know that a vote is sincere and properly managed would be to start the count ONLY AFTER all the votes were in and all the bureaux closed - including the Territoires Outre-mer and the Dom-Tom, and not to give out "tendances" susceptible to influencing voting in other time zones.

If I can think of this, why hasn't someone else thought of it?

It's this need for predictions and anticipation of results that is the foundation of this problem - and not just in this election.
If the ballot remained absolutely secret until such time as voting was closed, then all these claims of trickery and trafficking could be avoided.

MAGGIE: curiously, it's usually the people who "never touch a drop of alcohol" who are more likely to be alcoholics (not exclusively so of course). If you've seen Martine Aubry sip a glass of something in celebration of something, the chances are she isn't a sober alcoholic as that would be step one on a very long and slippery slope - she couldn't take the risk - and she would know it.
Alcoholics have behaviour patterns and coping strategies that are easily recognisable - even (nay especially) when they're trying very hard to appear "normal".
Nothing has ever struck me about Mme Aubry, but I shall watch her differently now that you've mentioned it.
This said, I doubt the rumour's truth, it would have been used, if not by Ségolène Royal herself, then by a campaigner somewhere down the line.
Whatever "side" you're on politically, it's difficult to imagine experienced career politicians (Laurent Fabius, Bertrand de la Noë et al) putting their support behind someone known to be an alcoholic, drinking or sober - especially when they'd like the position for themselves.

[Emilie]

Maggie

you should know that Mrs Aubry was one of the most unpopular french political character for years. As she was one of the most important minister of Jospin's government (1997-2002) she was very much criticized notably for the '35 heures'. Then she became the mayor of Lille (4th or 5th city of France) in 2001 and also criticized because she had been 'parachutée' there. The rumour you're talking about, saying she was an alcoholic, comes from that time.
I'm from Lille and I can assure you that there are many rumours about her, spread by people who truly hate her (there are indeed many) but 99% of them are false.
I'm not a great fan of her, but I had the chance (was it?) to listen to one of her speach at the Lawyers'national congress in Lille a few weeks ago, and I have to admit that she is more charismatic than I thought and obviously more competent than Ségo regarding - at least - debating any serious subjects (economy, justice, etc.).
Ségo is pitiful.
I would have been proud if France had elected a woman for the first time as President de la Republique, but Royal, it was just not possible..

[Pierre]

There are a couple of dozen comments on recent threads at least which have vanished. We are trying to sort it out. CB

Je me disais bien.... (I thought so...)

[Mauvezin]

>>DOT
Martine Aubry (pour laquelle je n'ai aucune sympathie particuliere)a vécu des moments difficiles dans sa vie privée menant à un divorce.
Peut-etre s'est-elle laissée un peu aller à ce moment ?
Paris est un village et ,pourtant assez proche et introduit dans le monde politique, je n'ai jamais entendu parler d'un alcoolisme chez MA.

[Pierre Bernardi]

Maggie, réponse A: the question is scurrilous.

Twenty years ago I was told that "everyone knew that Mitterrand had cancer". 10 years later, this turned out to be true...

[Pierre]

" That is, they have tended to sweep the issue under the rug rather than admit it openly and frankly.
Perhaps they HAVE dealt with it openly, but not to the extent that the Germans have, and this is why they are critisized, I THINK."

MAGGIE
I know a long discussion took place on this blog about Vichy, the occupation, and how France faced it. Didn't find time to read much nore to participate.
However, I'm suprised you add to this everlasting cliché "France did not face its past." (This one usually goes with and after "France is responsible for Hitler's rise" and "The French (always) surrendered without a fight").
This was true until the late 70's or 80's. About thirty years after it's not only a "nonsense" but also a "contrevérité" (less than a lie more than untrue). It would be too long to recall the various contributions (historical, judicial, political, litterary, artistic...) that have "faced" this past. It's one thing to ignore them or forget them. It's another to say they did not occur.
Actually the 2dWW (occupation, Vichy, collaboration, antisemitism,resistance) has been so overwhelmingly present in public debate after having been restrained to public myths, that it is stil "structuring" metaphores and references on various contemporary issues in this country (sans papiers, communautarism, histoire et mémoires, integration, discrimination, racism, school, police, Edvige, ASO).
Comparing France and Germany on that matter in order to conclude that the second faced what they had to do when the first avoided to, is also, sorry to put it this way, absurd for what they had to face was uncomparable.

[Pierre]

Maggie again
"Is this because
A it isn't true?
B nobody is aware of the problem?
C this is considererd a private matter in France?
D she has overcome the problem -- it's the "past", and everybody knows it?
E everybody, including Segolene, is too kind to mention it?
F it's a taboo subject in France?
G it's another example of press deference to the political establishment? "

It's A + C + D + E