French fans adore bullfighter boy

One of the less lovely features of the French deep south is the passion for la corrida, or bull-fighting. The bloody pastime, though disliked by most French, enjoys devotion in a stretch of the country that runs from the Rhone delta to the Atlantic shore.

A 10-year-old Franco-Mexican boy is the centre of this summer's annual battle between les aficionados and the anti-corrida campaigners. Last week, Michelito, a child star in Latin America, was twice banned by local authorities from performing non-lethal shows in central southern towns. In Arles, the bull-fighting Mecca, gendarmes acting on government orders halted his appearance at the last minute although the aficionado mayor was a big supporter. The child was being put in danger, said the local prefect.

Last night, Michelito [video below] finally made his French debut to great acclaim in Hagetmau, a town in the southwestern Landes, and he is due to try again in Arles this evening. Flowers rained down on the young torrero after he exhausted an 80 kilogramme calf called Bastonsito. The event was a "becerrada", a fight for beginners in which the animal is not wounded.

So what's wrong with a gifted boy practising his favourite sport in public?

Nothing, say his French father and the local mayors who back his appearance, along with that of other children at bullfighting schools in the area. Michel Lagravére, who runs a bullfighting school in Merida, Mexico, said that his son just plays with calves and that he is the victim of a crusade. "No-one ever stopped Mozart playing the piano or Maradona kicking a football - so they should just leave him alone."

The animal protection groups have made Michelito a target because he is not just an apprentice torrero -- he is a matador. He puts bulls to death in Latin America -- about 60 of them so far. In Spain and France, minors are barred from doing so. The image of a boy entertaining the crowd with cruelty and bloodshed is a strong argument for banning the whole activity, say the activists. After the non-lethal show in Hagetmau, Jean-Claude Laborde, head of the main anti-corrida group, said:  "I wonder if we haven't got better things to do than pitting a baby animal against a baby human".   

I could not agree more. We all know the pro-corrida arguments --  that the fighter makes love to the animal in a noble ballet of life and death and so on. I've reported on the scene in Spain and France and when I lived in Mexico City I used to jog past would-be matadors practising their moves with la muleta (the red cloth) in Chapultapec park. I know it's all part of an ancient tradition of violent spectacle.  But so were the Roman circus and mediaeval bear-bating. La corrida is repugnant and unacceptable. It will be eventually ended, but not until Madrid,  its home capital, and Paris summon the political courage.

Rossy de Palma, who is best known for her roles in Pedro Almodovar films, has just written to President Sarkozy to ask him to stop minors from attending bullfights. "How can one accept that children see blood flowing and that men are torturing animals in full view without anyone stopping them?" she wrote.

Sarkozy's people say that the president will be taking some steps, but don't hold your breath. Remember how he staged his final photo-opp before his election last year. He went to the Camargue, near Arles, where the wild toros run free, and made a virile appearance herding them astride a cowboy horse.

Picture: Rawhide Sarko campaigns in the Camargue

Below video: Michelito in bloody action

Comments

[PAUL]

Bullfighting amounts to torturing an animal to death and should have been banned long ago. France has never done enough for animal rights: the SPA is a midget indeed when compared with the mighty RSPCA, amongst other UK animal protection associations. The SPA has a very low profile and cannot take action without going via the police.

[Marguerite.]

Il a l'air tres doux et plutot frele, le taureau auquel se mesure ce petit garcon.Je n'aime pas les corridas. Non pas que j'aime particulierement les taureaux et que je pense qu'il ne faut pas faire de mal a ces betes mais j'ai tout le temps peur pour le torero. J'ai vu plusieurs corridas a Madrid et je n'arrivais pas a regarder l'arene plus d'une minute de suite: cette enorme bete furieuse foncant contre ce beau jeune homme !
Mais j'admet que c'est un sport tres difficile (et tres viril.Pas mal la comparaison avec Sarko !) et je ne vois pas pourquoi on s'offusquerait devant ce petit garcon qui veut en faire son metier.On ne s'improise pas torero. Les grands toreros ont tous commence petits dans des ecoles de tauromachie.

[dot king]

For once, I'm not clicking on the video - I also agree with Paul which is a bit of a turn-up for the books :).

I was astonished how popular bullfighting is here. It hadn't occured to me that France had a bullfighting "tradition" at all.
I understand that the Féria de Vic Fézensac (just down the road from me) which takes place every Pentecôte is booked up from year to year by bloodthirsty aficionados from all over France and it's impossible to get tickets. There is someone whose job it is to go to spain and select bulls for the ritualised slaughter of the arena.

If this Michelito were found ill-treating kittens or puppies, people would be up in arms like a shot.

BTW I heard on today's news that the bulls used in bullfighting now often have their horns cut off at the points, which are replaced with false points in a less harmful material. That's only reasonable if it stops horses from being gored. It was also said that the bulls bred for corrida are almost tame, at least far less dangerous (to the brave torero) than they used to be. The bulls are injured even before the "sport" begins.
Mise à mort ou non, it's a cruel and shameful business.

[Chris from Aix]

Quite surprised by this anti-bullfight gush, Charles! Shouldn't there be some kind of journalistic reserve, even on "hot" subjects such as this? I'm no bullfighting fan, never having had the urge to see one in almost 15 years of "deep South" life, but I still don't believe we can just dismiss this part of Mediterranean culture as it offends some of our Anglo-Saxon manners? And from there to state that bullfighting is "disliked by most French"??! Where do you get that from? Maybe in Parisian high-brow circles this may be true, I think you will find a fervent support for the "sport" in most Southern "départements", and in particular amongst rhe popular classes. Most French people would find cricket at best curious, probably downright boring, and in any case impossible to understand, but they wouldn't dream of telling the English to stop playing? What could be said of the English tradition of foxhunting also? Bullfighting may be cruel, but until I have the chance to speak to a "combat" bull to ask him his opinion, then I'm not willing to speak on his behalf, and especially not then tell the millions who enjoy the spectacle that they're all wrong to do so.

[Thanks Chris. Where to start? Cricket as a blood sport?
Recent opinion polls have all shown French public opinion opposed to bull-fighting. About 70 percent in some. Here's the most favourable one, done last autumn for the pro-camp in the south -- it's still 50 percent in favour of an all-out ban versus 48 percent against. http://www.torofstf.com/infos2007/280907sondageifop.htm.

Fox-hunting? Exactly. It has bene banned for the same reasons and I heartily agree. This has nothing to do with Anglo-Saxons versus Mediterraneans. It's not a gush. Civilised people should not torture animals to death for entertainment no matter how much their ancestors did. And a blog is not a news report. CB

[dot king]

"cette enorme bete furieuse foncant contre ce beau jeune homme !"
Marguérite

Le "beau jeune homme" est là par son libre choix, le taureau est furieux (il est sensé être "sauvage") car il est déjà blessé au cou par le picador, il ne peut guère lever la tête, il ne peut pas se refugier dans l'ombre, ni nulle part. Comme toute bête piégé, il se défend.
Il n'y a pas de gloire à torturer une bête quelle qu'elle soit, vers une mort lente et pénible, ni pour son plaisir ni pour le plaisir des autres moins courageux sauf pour regarder le spectacle. Une honte.

[Mauvezin]

Il n'y a pas de gloire à torturer une bête quelle qu'elle soit, vers une mort lente et pénible, ni pour son plaisir ni pour le plaisir des autres moins courageux sauf pour regarder le spectacle. Une honte.
************************
C'est votre opinion mais souffrez que d'autres opinions venant du fond de leur terroir ne soient pas une "honte" comme vous le dites.
___________
1) Un aficionado ne "regarde" pas , il apprecie.Nuance!
2)Prefereriez-vous mourir à la pleine lumiere sous le soleil ou dans les couloirs sombres d'un abattoir puant la mort ?
3)Pour ce qui est des taureaux , je vous invite à taper "miura" ainsi vous aurez une idée plus précise de ce qu'est un taureau de combat qui est un fauve et que cela.

[Joan Arles]

Well, I live near Arles and I am revolted by la corrida. Today, Le Point magazine quotes Michel Onfray, the lefty philosopher. The whole pro-bullfight argument boils down to a single cardinal question, he says. "Que signifie jouir du spectacle de la mort?" -- what is the significance of deriving great pleasure (having an orgasm) from the spectacle of death?".

[Terry]

Interesting blog as always. I wonder if there will be a non-lethal "Running of the Bulls" with kids too.

[John Gregory Flinn]

Oh dear Charles, your politically correct and overt reproach for 'la corrida' has dented any pretensions your blog may have for accepting the wider spectrum of opinion.
In an age of tyranny by the majority the animal rights lobby is one of the most intimidating and odious - yet you fuel their sulphurous polemic!

Bull-fighting is not to everyone's liking, but it has its adherents and to dictate fastidious and often hypocritical 'animal-rights' notions may win brownie points among the 'hoi polloi', but is still oppressive.

I do not subscribe to that fanciful 'noble ballet of life and death' rubbish any more than your jibe, how you 'used to JOG past would-be matadors practising their moves' is a better recommendation for exercise!

[Depends where you put the political correctness cursor, JG. It's also PC to argue that outsiders should not interfere with other people's traditions and culture. I'm very happy to see lots of opinion here. I'm just arguing a point.

And I am not talking about animal rights. Just civilised treatment for animals. I have always disliked bloodsports, including during my Scottish childhood when my friends' dads took us pheasant and grouse shooting. My father was also an opponent. When I was a teenager in Australia I was invited on kangaroo shoots in which you tore along on a pick-up truck blasting away at the beasts -- long since banned. The boys in Mexico (over two decades ago) were all very poor and professional bullfighting was less difficult to get into than professional football or other sport. CB]

[dot king]

Chris from Aix:

As I understand things from this part of France, most of the tickets reserved from year to year for the Féria de Vic Fézensac (Toros en Vic) are for Parisians, so it's far from being a "southern" "sport". I'm sure if you ask at the club Taurin d'Aix, you'll get a similar response.

Mauvezin: vous êtes gentil de me donner le choix entre ma disparition dans l'arène ou à l'abbatoir, j'apprécie votre indulgence.
Mais la question ne se pose pas vraiment. Elle n'est pas pertinente, votre question.
Un taureau est un animal, nous ne savons pas s'il "pense", ou s'il saurait faire un choix (après mûre réflexion), peser l'arène contre l'abbatoir, s'il aurait un concept, ou une image, de ce que c'est sa mort.
Il ne sait pas choisir, lui, entre son exécution et la torture entraînant sa mort publique.

Hélas! Nous nous entendions si bien ces jours-ci, mais là, vous me décevez avec les arguments usuels de ceux qui ont la soif, besoin même, du spectacle sanglant.

Ce n'est pas pour vous offenser, mais je dois refuser votre invitation de me mettre en face de n'importe quel animal sauvage, juste pour voir qu'il est, en fait, un animal sauvage, dangereux, fauve comme vous dites. J'ai assez de connaissance du sujet comme ça.

I suppose next, we'll get the bullfighting camp asking us if we're vegetarians or wearing leather shoes . . . sigh

Mauvezin, oui, je vous réponds à l'avance - le sac à main dont il a été question est en cuir, quoi d'autre?

[dot king]

Interesting blog as always. I wonder if there will be a non-lethal "Running of the Bulls" with kids too.

TERRY

It already exists. Hagetmau yesterday, little boys running with calves, but in the bullring, not in the streets. It seems there are parents who introduce their children to it very young - 5 or 6 years old, just to see if they have a taste for it. (Quoting a mother on last night's news.)

[Robert Marchenoir]

I confess to not having an opinion on the subject of bull-fighting. I can understand the arguments from both sides, although I wouldn't watch such events myself.

But I would draw the line at letting children do this. At the very least, how can you justify putting a child's life at risk, even if you're an aficionado?

They tell us "it's only calves". Yeah right. Eighty kilos calves. A ten kilo dog can maul a child to death.

Bring back the goats, please.

[dot king]

"And I am not talking about animal rights. Just civilised treatment for animals."
CB in answer to JG Flinn

Quite, whatever the arguments the pro-corrida camp puts forward, it's the pleasure they get from seeing a bullfight and a mise à mort (that is often a butchery) that is the most distasteful. They dress it up in fine words - exactly those Charles uses: "noble", "ballet" etc to distract from the orgasmic pleasure they're perhaps secretly ashamed of.
It will be difficult to convince me there's any cerebral reward to be got from watching a bullfight. It's sexual all right.

[qwerty]

It's the need for carnage. Hunting and corridas are just an outlet for man's bestial instincts, however it's dressed up - otherwise there would be even more people killing each other.

Why don't they play football, chess, tennis: bloodless ways of crushing your opponent.

Man's arrogance over animals is incommensurate.

[Matthieu]

(Taking the risky pro-corrida stance) I used to go to some corridas with my godfather since I was 13. As a complete aficionado and well-known commentator, he always found the right words to explain the show to my ignorant eyes. I guess that anyone put in front of this show without the minimum of explanations (why the picador, why the three tercios...) would find this brutal and bloody. And the corrida is brutal and bloody, but it's something else. It's part of a certain culture, almost pagan. I am not my godfather and I can't find the proper words but I do know that I, born in Nancy, really felt close to this culture. Banning the corrida would mark the end of this atmosphere, the endless talks about fighters, the wonderful meals and wines and so much else. I'd like to keep this moment of passion in my well-regulated life.

[qwerty]

Animals kill out of necessity: to eat, to mate. Killing for pleasure is specific to mankind. Perversity came when consciousness appeared in the course of evolution.

[edoardo chioni]

thnx to the moderation, I actually can not say what I really have in the point of my tongue to the father of the boy, but more and more to the bloody people who indeed follows carnegie as the corrida.

[dot king]

EDOARDO - please, say what you think - all sorts of stuff gets through. Has Charles already moderated you?
If so, you'll recover, everyone does :)

[dot king]

OK, now I have clicked on to the Michelito video for a very few seconds, because I notice that Charles says in his article that:
"The event was a "becerrada", a fight for beginners in which the animal is not wounded."
So what are the spear-things sticking out of the animal's neck then?
It has been pre-wounded so that the child can cope with it and/or to weaken and anger/frustrate/confuse it.
Anyone know whether the wounded animal gets veterinary care afterwards? Or whether it ends up dead anyway?
To make an already over-macho little boy look heroic.
It's bad for the boy too. Inculcates an inflated ego and a lack of respect for other living creatures. And in some unhealthy way, he's living his father's dream too.
In any other context, say little girls as beauty queens, those who support this, would be crying scandal.
I wonder what sort of hell will break loose the day little Michelito gets wounded, temporarily, or permanently handicapped, or killed.
It's madness.
Robert Marchenoir has a good point - he could try his skills with a Rottweiler that's driven mad by a neck injury, or a Pit Bull Terrier ditto.
Oh, but no, that's unthinkable in this Civilised Day and Age, isn't it?

[Mauvezin]

> DOT KING
Mais la question ne se pose pas vraiment. Elle n'est pas pertinente, votre question.
Un taureau est un animal, nous ne savons pas s'il "pense", ou s'il saurait faire un choix (après mûre réflexion), peser l'arène contre l'abbatoir, s'il aurait un concept, ou une image, de ce que c'est sa mort.
Il ne sait pas choisir, lui, entre son exécution et la torture entraînant sa mort publique.
***********************
Sophisme !
Vous avez parfaitement compris ce que je signifiais.
___________________________________

Hélas! Nous nous entendions si bien ces jours-ci, mais là, vous me décevez avec les arguments usuels de ceux qui ont la soif, besoin même, du spectacle sanglant.
**********************
Se parler ne signifie pas s'entendre.
___________________________________
I suppose next, we'll get the bullfighting camp asking us if we're vegetarians or wearing leather shoes . . . sigh
************************
Vous ai-je posé cette question ?
Je suis une brute assoiffée de sang mais pas assez stupide pour seulement l'avoir pensée !

[dot king]

"Vous ai-je posé cette question ?"
Mauvezin

non, ce n'était pas à votre intention, plutôt à l'intention générale, je donnais "voix" à mes pensées (en anglais pour faire la différence) et puis par la suite de ma pensée, je suis revenue à vous et, plus légèrement, au sac à main.

Je devine par vos réponses que vous êtes un aficionado :) j'en connais déjà - ce serait difficile de les éviter ici où je vis . . .

Sophisme? Mais non, vous avez posé une question à un être humain concernant une façon préférée de mourir qu'aurait un taureau donné le même choix - hypothétiquement - car lui n'est pas en mesure de choisir son destin. Ni même de formuler une hypothèse là-dessus.
Je ne pourrais que m'imaginer taureau face à ce choix, mais je serais naturellement influencée par mon status d'être humain en m'y imaginant.
Le vrai taureau n'a pas la possibilité de choix. Lui réagit et subit et c'est tout ce qu'il peut faire.

Mais elle est révélatrice, votre question, avec sa suggestion, affirmation même, qu'il est préférable de mourir "glorieusement" devant une foule "assoiffée de sang" et dans le soleil. Croyez-vous que le taureau, dans son champs y songe, à une mort de héros abbatu?
Vous lui attribuez VOS idées d'une mort glorieuse - c'est un concept typiquement humain, et peut-être (oserais-je?) masculin.

[Ian]

Most of the anti-corrida comment is from those who have little understanding of the whole affair. I am Scottish but lived in Spain for years, and came to appreciate bullfighting very much. Just a few comments:
-it is not a sport or contest, was never intended as such, but is a tragic spectacle much appreciated by aficionados such as myself
- the kill is not the main point (although a quick, clean, elegant kill is much applauded); far more important is the faena with the muleta, where the matador has the opportunity to show his skill and courage against a weakened but still very dangerous animal.
- without the corrida, these wonderful beasts would not exist, since they have no other economic importance (although the meat is of course used) and would have been long extinct
- a toro bravo is fought at 4 years old, after 4 years of peaceful, undisturbed life in vast expanses of open countryside. I think that this compares rather favourably with the much shorter and more restricted existence of most beef cattle. This isn't a bad trade-off for 20 minutes of "torture", especially considering that these animals have been bred for combat and quite probably rather enjoy 'having a go' at the picadors and their well-protected horses, banderilleros and the matador. If I had to be reincarnated as a bull, I know which I would choose!!
- Last but not least, there is in this day and age far too much interference and opression of minorites by majorities who disapprove of certain activities. Liking or disliking of activities such as bullfighting is largely a matter of individual conscience. Those who don't like it don't have to watch it. Many of the anti-corrida brigade may well get up to things which I could legitimately consider to be 'uncivilised', but I do not feel that it is my business to try to prevent them.

[Mary Fernandez]

Well, having been raised on a cattle ranch for a period of time in Wyoming and Montana, the death of bull in the ring is quite pleasant compared to what animals go through at slaughterhouses.

That's the adults. I'll assume no one here eats veal. Then there are the mass egg-producing chicken ranches. Hens are packed so tight in cages that they can't turn around.

The bullfighting/foxhunting argument is one of those 'Tibet'-like issues. It's a horrible scandal as long as it's visible. No one ever cries for North Korean children permanently mishapened from starvation.

No Cameras. No problem. Out of sight, out of mind.

[Chris from Aix]

Just a last thought on this interesting debate, and a bit of a follow on from Mary's comment - are those who wish to impose their superior moral judgement on the "corrida" culture also unwilling to partake in other French traditions such as horse-meat steak or foie gras??? Can these also be considered as unacceptable, as also inflictiong suffering on animals who would otherwise be frollicking in grassy meadows? Or does the shockingness depend on the type of animal?

[Mary Fernandez]

BTW, I should just add, mine was not a 'pro' bullfighting argument. I've never been to a bullfight and don't care to see one.

I just find it a little OTT to be enraged at the death of one bull when millions are slaughtered in a not-so-kind-way every year. I am not a vegetarian either, just an apex predator and VERY happy to be one (considering the alternative).

We seem to have a lot of self-hating apex predators around and they're always concerned about what OTHER apex predators should or should not be doing.

Lastly, it seems to me that putting this child in a ring with potentially violent animals is a form of child abuse.

[Daniel Strohl]

"So what's wrong with a gifted boy practising his favourite sport in public?" (Charles)

Mary Fernandez has the answer : "Lastly, it seems to me that putting this child in a ring with potentially violent animals is a form of child abuse" - I would add : AND SOLELY FOR MONEY.

[Michel Jutharat]

One can play a lot with bulls without killing them. I live near Arles, but I hate corridas. Should be forbidden by EU.

What a horrible selfish little snot gobbler. Nasty little boy needs a lance or two in his body to know what torture feels like. Meat eating and bull killing is just sickening.

[PAUL]

To compare the killing of a bull in the ring with that of a cow in a slaughter-house is a false analogy. The cow is killed with a short, sharp electric shot. The bull is submitted to the sort of treatment meeted out by Nazis et alia to any that crossed them. To say animals have no feelings is a blatant absurdity and could only come from the type-pad of someone who has never kept one.

[dot king]

Chris from Aix, Yours are the arguments I expected, and I agree with them. The human race is despicable in its treatment of animals for food. (Those of us who are lucky enough to live in Lands of Plenty.)
However, one can avoid eating "processed" foods, it's a free choice. more and more producers are going back to more natural methods of élevage. Take foie gras for example, in fact the naturally-produced stuff only involves restriction in pens of the birds and the "infamous gavage" during the last couple of weeks before slaughter, the rest of the time they are free in the field often with a pond, eating whatever they graze or filter. Not all veal is raised in battery, I eat veal, but only "veau sous la mère" (I like to say that's why it tastes fishy, but only my anglophone friends understand the joke :)), I buy only free-range chickens. Same with pork. I never buy meat from the supermarkets, I pay more for the better quality and the "traçabilité" I get from the local butcher. I tasted horse-meat when I was an au pair, it's stringy and I wouldn't want to eat it again.

Bullfighting is different because it's unnecessary and unnecessarily cruel, and in the case under discussion, is involved a child who, at 10 years old is not old enough to realise the dangers, nor to think in any "moral" way, who is being encouraged into a dangerous "tragic spectacle" as Ian calls it, above.
But Mary is right to put everything into the perspective of real human tragedy. Michelito has been thrust into our consciousness in a context which carries a certain controversy, so we're discussing it.
It does, in the end, come down to child exploitation, if we're to stick to the point. He's too young for all of it, especially the adulation - and his father is beneath contempt.

[Mauvezin]

c'est un concept typiquement humain, et peut-être (oserais-je?) masculin.
*******************
Brisons là.
Nos cultures sont par de trop differentes.

[Neil]

Doesn't anyone find this strange?

A report a month or so ago reported on the cruelty videos containing japanese ladies killing small animals by standing on them and everyone was outraged. Now we see an entire (excluding the anti-* groups) nation praising a family who has taught a child that torturing animals if fine.
Oh, and if Mozart started smashing his piano I guess someone would have stopped him. Then again, Maradona and his hand of god was encouraged.

[remy]

hope to watch a bull fight and eat some whales in Japan just to annoyed some hippies

[Dan]

This is a fuss about nothing. As anyone knows who is familiar with the region, French bullfighting in the Provence is not a battle to the death. Indeed, the bull is not jabbed at all. They simply tease the bull and the near-misses provide the entertainment. I believe the author of this story has France confused with Spain, where the bulls are killed.

Who cares about a bloodless spectacle? In London kids are stabbing each other - a much bigger problem (considering all of the British moral superiority implied in the comments, they should look inward).

Mr. Bremner should escape Paris from time to time and get the story straight. The article is misleading. It's like comparing paintball to a massacre.

[Sorry, Dan. You're wrong. The bulls are killed in French corridas -- in the ring or just outside it. What you might have seen in Provence is the milder version. Try a quick Google before pronouncing... CB]

[dot king]

DAN: In all the bull-fighting arenas in the south-west, la mise à mort is practised, several times in a Féria weekend.
There are other types of contest such as "course landaise" (with wild cows, not bulls) in which the "écarteurs" have to dive or leap over them as they charge and avoid the horns and, I suppose, the hooves. And there are types of combat where the bull isn't killed, but mostly he goes into the ring to meet his maker.
Many even very small towns, no more than villages by UK standards have bullrings and an annual weekend for Féria with mise à mort.

Knife crime is growing in France too, but I can't quite see what you're getting at with that argument.
I don't think anyone's moralising, everyone is expressing a point of view, their own. do you think a 10-year old child should be encouraged to engage in (i) sports which put his life in danger (ii) teach him to inflict cruelty on animals?

In the end, whatever we feel about bullfighting, it's the added dimension of child exploitation that brings a different angle to the subject.

[John]

Charles Bremner wrote: "Civilised people should not torture animals to death for entertainment no matter how much their ancestors did."

What about foie gras then? Are you also in favor of banning foie gras?
[Yes I am, John. I don't eat it. CB]

[John Murphy]

Sarko may well have tried to play the cowboy in the Camargue but no bull there (called a 'biou' not a 'toro') is only likely to suffer a grazed forehead atlost if one of the 'razeteurs' in the 'Course Camarguaise' happens to scrape it with his 'razet', a small implement used my men running on foot in the arena to pull off 'attributs' tied between and on its horns (strings, tassles, etc). No killing is involved and if any injuries are sustained(sometimes death) it will be the 'razeteurs' who suffer them. The bulls have quite long careers, seem to like the fun of this game and win prizes for their owners who look after them with great care. Some excellent bovine performers have even had statues erected in their honour. The bulls used for the 'corrida' are all imported from Spain and are of a different variety (larger and with wider horns) to the Camarguaise stock. The latter, despite common belief, are not wild though they do roam pretty freely in the delta

[Sensi]

The moral inquisition has started, let's forbid everything that we don't like or don't understand. Let's forbid the bloodthirsty hunting, the cruel fishing, animals exploitation in farms and the food industry, the disgraceful and inhuman pet owning, etc.

We will all finish vegans under the sanitized dictatorship of the politically correctness, with every bunch of obsessive activists forcing their sectarian ideologies down our throats. That looks wonderful...

[Andrew]

There is a whole lot of superiority complex going on around here, taking a 'moral high ground' where none particularly exists. We are animals, they are animals. We EAT them. What does it matter if they're part of a spectacle before hand? What do you think they have the horns for in the first place? Nature Makes Spectacles of us all: but suddenly if you sell tickets its an abomination. Stop the Lions from ripping the Gazelles apart, or the Alligators from tearing out the Zebra's throats, if you're going to get all woozy about animals getting hurt. Of course the argument about 'unnatural entertainment' is bad also: haven't you ever seen a cat toy with a lizard?

[Francois D]

To Dot King
"In the end, whatever we feel about bullfighting, it's the added dimension of child exploitation that brings a different angle to the subject."

Totally agree with you. This prohibition seems based on a dual legal argument because it is prohibited in France:
-- To pay children for working or services (children artists or models must have wages paid in a blocked bank account until their majority)
-- Prevention of incitement to violence and if the child is wounded or worse killed, the prosecutor may backfire against those who incited him to these conditions of danger and they may go in jail for long years (if he dies).

To Dan

How does a french south habitant may ignore killing in bullfights in France? All that must come from the Romans but why corridas have disappeared in Italy and persist in France and Spain?

[Franco Tavolara]

What is happening with Europe? where all this hypocrisy and double standards come from? You can afford bombing foreign countries for their resources or markets, but get horrified by one "corrida" where a poor beast is killed for "non-civilized" pleasures... It is sad.I completely agree with Ian: I come from a country which banned corridas more than a centruy abroad, and I was against them... until I moved to Mexico and learnt to appreciate la "Fiesta Brava". You need to understand it, and understand from where that bull comes . The whole beef-eating Britain lives on murdered cows, fed with animal meat, without moving properly or having a real cow-"humane" life... The bulls in corridas were CREATED BY MAN, they are a result of men-manipulated genes over generations, won't exist without us and their participation in the "Fiesta" is short (bloody) and brave. At least they have the opportunity to kill one of the guys who's going to kill him –won't happen at the abattoirs. All this talk about "torturing animals" stink to hypocrital, ignorant and ethno-centric middleclass nonsense. And yes, I'm for fox hunting as well. Calculate how many animals we kill every minute in the World, is just the same: we are carnivore monkeys. Don't be ashamed, come to termis with it... and enjoy it.

[Franco Tavolara]

Or, Andrew, killer whales playing with dead seals over the waves? Are they "BAD" animals for doing that? Ah, no, the only bad creatures are humans...
By the way, Mc Donald's is a quite disturbing carnivore spectacle itself: obese people eating tons of dead meat across the globe. And Mc Donalds is considered a cultural product as well.
I personally prefer the "corridas": there's much more there.
... and I was forgetting: let's ban boxing as well! Poor kids hitting each other in the head for MONEY!

[Mary Fernandez]

Paul -

"To compare the killing of a bull in the ring with that of a cow in a slaughter-house is a false analogy. The cow is killed with a short, sharp electric shot."

In an ideal world. Usually it's a metal bolt through the skull. Animals are moved quickly and missing the target isn't uncommon. Occasionally, cows are so ill they can't even walk to their their deaths. In that case, they are pushed are picked up by tractors. (It's illegal to do that, but's happened.)

Spend a day at a slaughterhouse if you don't believe me. (In other words, get out from behind your type pad!)

[Dan]

I think the superiority complex here is rather overwhelming. Please keep in mind (those typing in native English), this is NOT your culture or your heritage. But, it is that of this family. Every country has some sort of 'blood-sport' (in America, the blood and sport are separated; sport in bed, blood at the clinic). It's little "specious" to be worried about a few hundred/thousand bulls, when millions of babies are killed in utero every year. But, of course, any given bull is more important, right?

Lay off the criticisms, until you've immersed yourself into the culture. So...live amongst the bullfighters for awhile, then chime in. A hundred years or so should be sufficient.

And, for the record, I do not like bullfighting, but I'd rather France & Spain have bullfighting rather than a lifeless, bland nanny-state called "europe" with no variety of culture at all. Didn't 'eurovision' teach you guys anything at all?

[qwerty]

Has any hunter or bullfight aficionado examined what happens inside of him when he pulls the trigger and watches his prey go down, or attends the "mise à mort" of a bull? It's the point I'm trying to make: slaughterhouses are horrendous, but that's negligence, habit, cost-cutting, bovine stupidity and insensitivity of the people who deal in butchering. They just don't know any better.

What is the exact sensation, surge of adrenalin or whatever hormone, that instant of pleasure in seeing some animal put to death? Because that's what it boils down to.

I have an uncle who is handy with a gun (and hunting is a snobbish family tradition in that part of the family) - he on one occasion took a pot-shot at a bird sitting on his chimney, and on another occasion took a pot-shot at a stray cat that got into his house. He killed both. Why? For that kick of endorphines, I suppose. Purely gratuitous.

Feu Edouard Stern, banker, enjoyed S&M activities - and was a hunter who hired great expanses of reserve in Africa where he went to be able to kill at will - orgies of killing.

[dot king]

SENSI, JOHN MURPHY, DAN, ANDREW, FRANCO TAVOLORA:

Hardly anyone here is arguing on the level you put them on, the point is this is a 10-year old child in the ring. I doubt Charles would have produced a bullfighting article if it hadn't been for the wide and enthusiastic promotion of this very junior bullfighter.

You are the ones taking the high moral ground here and are missing the point. It doesn't seem to concern you at all the danger to the child - not one of you mentions it.

MAUVEZIN
"Brisons là.
Nos cultures sont par de trop differentes"

I thought the whole point of a blog was that different cultures meet and explore their differences.
Mais que faire? Soit.

SENSI: "We will all finish vegans under the sanitized dictatorship of the politically correctness, with every bunch of obsessive activists forcing their sectarian ideologies down our throats."

Just a minute, aren't you the person who was glorying in having got a journalist sacked from their job for publishing things you disagreed with or judged to be French-bashing (ie not politically correct - therefoe yourself in search of political correctnes)?
I submit for consideration the idea that YOU are an "obsessive activist" with "sectarian ideologies" that you feel able to transfer from discussion to discussion.

Do you have a view about child exploitation?

[PAUL]

'All this talk about "torturing animals" stink to hypocrital, ignorant and ethno-centric middleclass nonsense.' What is hypocritical about disliking to see or hear about animals suffering? Perhaps these same middle class people should feel no pity for people dying of hunger? And what about the victims of rape or of serial murderers. Maybe we are wrong to consider them heinous crimes and should consider the enjoyment which the perpetrators get from their acts, acts which might even be considered part of our 'culture'. Mass murder and torture were and are part of the culture of most dictatorial regimes and they were for the most part carried out by 'nice middleclass guys' like you or me. They weren't hypocritical, of course, they were 'doing their duty'. They might however be considered lacking in self-criticism.

[John Gregory Flinn]

"Recent opinion polls have all shown French public opinion opposed to bull-fighting. About 70 percent in some...."

Thankyou Charles, you have illustrated my point about 'tyranny by the majority' perfectly well.
More than 50% support a ban so that's OK to ban it then....!
Opinion polls are just that - polls about opinion and of little, or at best, variable value.

I agree that we should treat animals in a civilized manner, but am not convinced bull-fighting mars this.
Bloodsports is an emotive subject, which sentiment is often used by militant leftist groups as an excuse to dictate to the rest!

OK, perhaps 'fashionable' is better than 'politically correct'.

[PAUL]

Dear Ms Fernandez,

I did actually spend not a day but several hours in a slaughter house in France: the method of killing cattle was as I described, silent and swift. The experience put me off meat for several weeks even so.

[Maggie]

"Has any hunter or bullfight aficionado examined what happens inside of him when he pulls the trigger and watches his prey go down, or attends the "mise à mort" of a bull?....What is the exact sensation, surge of adrenalin or whatever hormone, that instant of pleasure in seeing some animal put to death? Because that's what it boils down to." (Qwerty)

What about the native peoples who hunted for survival not so very long ago? What about the Eskimo / Inuit who sits silently for four hours in arctic temperatures beside an airhole in the ice, waiting for a seal to appear? Does he get a surge of adrenalin and an instant of pleasure too, when he finally kills the seal, and is this cruel, or is it okay if he has nothing else to eat?

Just because most of us don't have to kill our own food anymore, does that mean that anyone who still hunts is automatically doing it just for the adrenalin charge?

My brother lives up in northern Manitoba (Manitoba -- yes, that's the place where they decapitate their seat-mates on buses). It's all bush and forest and lake up there, with not the infinite variety of things to do that you find in London or Paris or Amsterdam (or Winnipeg even). Is it okay for people in places like this to hunt, or is it still gratuitous?

Most places in Canada, and even in the US, still have wild animals. There are deer all over the place -- you can't go for a drive in the evening without seeing several. They get into people's gardens and eat the carrots; people have serious accidents running into them with their cars at dusk. Bears are common in many places too.

Even here in the south of France there are so many wild boar (sanglier) that they sometimes have to cull them.

Is it okay to hunt animals that are not endangered species? Is there a difference between a big game hunter flying into Africa or India in search of trophy game, and men who live in the bush going out to shoot deer or sanglier during the hunting season? Is it okay as long as they eat what they shoot?

My grandfather was a doctor up in northern Manitoba in the early 20th century; he took out people's appendixes on their dining room tables and stuff like that. He also had a library full of great books, but he was still an avid hunter all his life, and his sun-porch was lined with deer heads. So was he a cultivated man or a savage?

I don't think I ever heard of hunting counted as a "snobbish" activity in North America, as Qwerty describes it. Maybe in England it is because it is associated with aristocrats and landowners, but where I come from it would be more considered a poor man's activity than a rich man's, though actually I don't think economic status is associated with hunting at all.

Hunting has always been associated with blood and guts, whether it was primitive natives killing for survival, or modern hunters shooting game during the hunting season. Are animal rights activists more turned off by "cruelty", or by the blood and guts? Are blood and guts something that animal rights activists can't take anymore because they are too cut off from the land and the reality of things, or are they more civilized because they have moved away from this more basic level of existance?

Where do we draw the line? Was it okay for primitive native peoples to hunt? What about the natives today -- is it still acceptable as a traditional or cultural activity for first peoples ? Is it okay for people who live in isolated areas up north to hunt, but not people who live in European cities, who have plenty of other distractions? Is it okay to hunt animals that aren't endangered? Should we judge Hemmingway and people like him who hunted tigers when they weren't yet in danger of extinction? Should we judge English fox hunts because nobody eats foxes? Should we judge bullfighting because it's cruel, or should we admire it for its artistry and ritual, and consider it as part of the legitimate cultural heritage of Spain?

I don't know my own answers to a lot of these questions. I have not seen a bull fight, nor much blood and guts up close, and probably wouldn't like it too much, but I don't think I agree with Qwerty that all this stuff boils down to gratuitous pleasure. I think animal rights people have made a few good points but I think a lot of them seem a little overly coddled and pampered.

Hunting has always existed and I'm not sure that it should be banned now just because we have supermarkets. Hopefully, the type of people who shot all the buffalo just for fun have been taught to think.

My dad wasn't a hunter, but one of his brothers was. I don't remember this myself, I was too young, but my brother remembers once when Uncle Geordie came home from the bush and brought over a couple of ducks for our family. Our mother nearly threw him out of the house, because in HER family the men cleaned up the game in the bush before bringing it home, but in my dad's family the men shot the bird and brought it home for their mother to clean up. Our mom was having none of it! I don't know what happened to the ducks.