Chatting up the revolution, French style

 

We saw the other day that the French Socialists, the main opposition party, are giving up their hope for revolution. But don't throw away the red flag yet. The past couple of days have seen the consecration of a new hero who has won millions of fans with his struggle to overthrow capitalism.

The star of the moment is Olivier Besancenot, the baby-faced Trotskyite who scored over four percent of the vote in last year's presidential election. Besancenot, 34, who works as a postman in the rich suburb of Neuilly, has made news with an appearance on French television's most consensual talk show, Vivement Dimanche. This is a Sunday ritual in which Michel Drucker, the dean of celebrity interviewers, sketches the life of his guest with soft questions and the help of musicians and friends of the subject. The media fuss was prompted by the supposed incongruity of the cosy talk host inviting a fire-breathing Trotskyite onto his red sofa for the ritual three-hour chat [video below]. 

In reality, there was nothing surprising. As we have noted here before, Besancenot is quite a standard French product: the loveable revolutionary. He was not even the first popular Trotskyite to be invited by Drucker. Arlette Laguiller, his grandmotherly rival, made it onto the show a decade ago. 

With his sympathique manner and boyish enthusiasm, Besancenot has charmed many who might not vote for him but have a soft spot for the romantic revolutionary tradition. The Paris Match monthly rating "barometer" reports that 62 percent of the French hold a favourable opinion of this apostle of proletarian dictatorship. That makes him the third most admired politician on the left and considerably more popular than President Nicolas Sarkozy. 

Anyone unfamiliar with French foibles would have been amazed to watch this articulate youngster being taken so seriously by Drucker and his team as he spouted his antique dogmas about class struggle and evil capitalists and sketched the future Marxist-Leninist bliss. Such talk is still admired in France. People may not believe any of it, but they have a soft spot for the idealism. It reminds them of their dreamy youth, like older Britons go misty at the sound of a Beatles tune (see last week's post on May '68). Far left rhetoric is also finding more fertile ground again, with the sense of growing poverty and injustice in France and the widespread hostility to globalisation.

Besancenot, who is the figurehead of the venerable, sect-like Communist Revolutionary League (LCR), insisted on television that he was committed to the overthrow of bourgeois democracy and was competing in elections for tactical reasons. "I am still fighting for revolution... but the revolution does not mean a puddle of blood at every street corner," he reassured viewers.

Judging by the list of his heroes, I would not believe that. Among his idols apart from Leon Trotsky are Che Guevara, the ruthless lieutenant of Fidel Castro, and the insurgents of the 1871 Paris Commune, which ended in a bloodbath with 20,000 dead. Young Olivier learnt about the Commune while playing dominos on Sundays with his beloved grandmother at Levallois, in the Paris suburbs, he told his two million viewers.

With his gift of the gab and cheeky smile, Besancenot is entertaining. France is not about to elect him to anything. But, once again speaking as a former resident of a Marxist-Leninist paradise -- the Soviet Union -- I find it worrying that such a wacky character is treated with so much respect. Dominique Dhombres, le Monde's esteemed television critic, gave Besancenot's appearance high marks today. He praised the style and daring of his "message of unity and solidarity". Dominique, an old friend of mine from our Moscow days, should know better.

olivier besancenot LCR émission chez drucker

And here is the monologue by Anne Roumanoff, one of the best comedians, on the Drucker-Besancenot show. She starts by making fun of the long pont weekends (last post)

Comments

[Ian H. Young]

Mr. Bremner, you find it worrying that such a wacky character is accorded so much respect. I would go much further; I find it sickening and indeed dangerous that such marginal characters as Besancenot are given the opportunity to spout their views on prime-time broadcasts. It has always amazed me how these people are consistently given so much air-time before elections in France. Democratic? Hardly! I feel strongly that all of these individuals (who have managed such enormous feats as obtaining 1, 2 or even 4(!)% of the vote in previous elections) are given disproportionate publicity. And now we have to tolerate their lunatic rantings in between elections, too! Can you imagine the reaction in Britain if Screaming Lord Sutch had been given equivalent party political broadcasting privileges? Is Besancenot a politician or an entertainer? It's about time the French made up their minds about such matters; "revolution" is not a game, directed by cuddly, boyish characters. His poisonous ideas can cause enormous economic harm, and do untold damage.

[Francois D]

Yes, this Besancenot'invitation is uncongruous. There will be always in the french opinion a wave of sympathy to these ideas. I d'not think that this comes mainly from Marx but rather from Jean Jacques Rousseau that all little French learn at school.
Thank you for Roumanof'show that I missed not because fine weather but work..

[dot king]

There are certain intelligent and articulate people who will always be better, more useful in opposition.
Olivier Besancenot is the representative of a growing, but very minority political party. He is less extreme, more "comestible" that Arlette Laguiller.
Should he get more support, perhaps the opposition that France needs will come from these unexpected quarters, and force those in power to take notice of ordnary people and shift themselves and their "projects" more in their direction - if he serves that purpose then it's all to the good, IMO.
Besancenot has always made it quite clear that he won't join any government whose ideals he doesn't share, so there's very little chance of his being in any position of power - influence perhaps, but not power.

[Pierre Bernardi]

Even worse is France 3 showcasing the annual shindig at Lutte Ouvrière. I'd merge it with France 2, pronto. Or sell it off to Bouygues.

[thinknoworpaylater]

DOT - quite right to point out that in a democracy we have to listen to many voices, especially as the may speak for those who are otherwise silenced. However, remember , the current situation of massive inflation ( another *free-market* instability) is not over yet. Such an influence as Besancenot can grow. Sarkozy, like other politicians, has no real power to change the economic situation ( nor does Gordon Brown in the U.K.) Influence, in the right cicumstances can become power. Of course in reality Besancenot could do no better if he were president now but Sarkozy has four years to run. A lot of things in politics could change in four years if the ewconomic conditions continue.

[colin grayson]

charles , nice to catch you in an oxymoron , a postman that works !

a few years ago someone close to me worked at the british post office , analysing the relative efficencies of various postal delivery services

estimated reduction of staff required to make the british post office efficent and competitive ? 50%

similar exercise for la poste ? 65%

[colin grayson]

charles , nice to catch you in an oxymoron , a postman that works !

a few years ago someone close to me worked at the british post office , analysing the relative efficencies of various postal delivery services

estimated reduction of staff required to make the british post office efficent and competitive ? 50%

similar exercise for la poste ? 65%

[azloon]

[A lot of things in politics could change in four years] Thinknow

don't hold your breath.

[Daniel Strohl]

Nice article from Charles - it will help our foreign friends to understand why French economy, although it has many assets, is not the spear head of European economy :)) (see NOTE below).

"Dominique, an old friend of mine from our Moscow days, should know better". Many of Dominique's colleagues should also know better, even if they did not have the luck to be "former residents of a Marxist-Leninist paradise -- the Soviet Union".

Le Monde has always been a very good paper; but now, they try to compete with their leftist colleagues of Libération, Marianne, Le Canard Enchainé & tutti quanti, who make a living out of undiscriminated Sarko bashing. I think that the marketing analysis of Le Monde is wrong. If they continue on this track, they will lose moderate readers, but will not be able meanwhile to increase their left leaning readership - at least the bulk of it, who do appreciate sarcasms and bashing, but who do not care especially of well overthought and balanced articles in educated French.

NOTE : in the sixties, there was a well known American "futurologue" (unfortunately, I am not able to remember his name - possibly Kahn?) who predicted at that time a brilliant future to the French economy. He based his predictions on the many assets France had (geography, population etc.). However, he did not anticipate May 1968, the oil problems of the seventies, and 1981. And he probably also underestimated the persistance of leftist and communist ideas in the French society.

[John Gregory Flinn]

'Le Figaro' did a piece on him too - claiming that Drucker laid out the red carpet for him, although I think that was journalists' poetic licence!
Besancenot was described as 'the nail in the socialist shoe' due to his uncompromising stance.
Clearly biding his time (aping Lenin's tactics perhaps...?)!

His idols came to a sticky end.
Che Guevara came from the 'Montoneros' in Argentina which briefly offered Juan Peron a socialist (similar) vision before being extirpated by Videla and the other generals in 1974.
Guevara was summarily executed in Bolivia much to his chagrin by some 'professionals' on orders from high.

The point here is that ultimately Besancenot is likely, either to lead the left, or be destroyed.

The French revolutionary tradition is thought of as leftist in nature. But was the original 1789 revolution of the left, or of the right?
The ideals which were framed following those events are not typically socialist - not least in that they endure today, nor wholly political.
Indeed many aspects of the 'La Republique Francaise' are rightist in character.
Individual and property rights, decimalised comerce and science, a system of government and a durable code of law were established that became models for other nations.
Even the 'Communard Politics' of 1871 was hardly revolutionary in its scope, respecting much of the republican tradition. Its supression was accompanied by much indiscriminate and summary executions, which was to recur again in a similar way later in Spain when Franco (another right-winger) took power and dealt with his socialists.

However Becancenot's ideas are not new - even a little boring, but his style evidently sells TV and newspapers so we can expect more....!

[Daisy]

Don't we all get 15 minutes of fame?

[Marguerite.]

Je suis d'accord avec vous,on ne peut pas prendre ce Besancenot au serieux. Si Dominique Dhombres fait l'eloge de ce"jeune homme plein de generosite", dans sa chronique du Monde, c'est, comme vous le dites dans votre blog, pousse par la nostalgie. Besancenot, ce "jeune homme d'un milieu populaire qui a milite des l'age de 14 ans",c'est le revolutionnaire qu'il aurait lui-meme voulu etre.

[Seb]

[...and the insurgents of the 1871 Paris Commune, which ended in a bloodbath with 20,000 dead. Young Olivier learnt about the Commune while playing dominos on Sundays with his beloved grandmother at Levallois...]
Something to help you decipher the French soft spot for leftish rebels: I do not know for my fellow countrymen, but for myself I never learned anything about the Commune in school (and apparently, so does Olivier). History lessons went almost directly from Napoleonian wars to WWI.
So, of course, when we eventually learn about this revolution, it's in a simplified way (bad guys in the governement, freedom fighters in the streets) and we may miss minor details such as political context and 20k dead peoples...

[Robert Marchenoir]

I apologize for being off topic for a while. However, this is about French mores, and may even have something to do about the left-wing infatuation exemplified by the public appeal of Besancenot.

I would like to comment on this French Sorbonne art student making a living out of X-rated movies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1952403/Sorbonne-student-admits-to-career-in-porn.html

The implication here is that we live in an odious capitalist world which forces innocent young women to become prostitutes in order to get an education.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It's fairly easy to get a job as a waitress in Paris if you need to support yourself.

Of course, you will probably work longer hours for the same amount of money. You will not be able to get any free publicity in Le Parisien newspaper by boasting about it. You will not be able to posture about "challenging society" just because you are shagging away, as this lady does.

The funniest part of the story is this: she was afraid the offers she got would lead to prostitution. She was glad, she says, to realise that no such thing was involved.

The fact that a female university student may agree to have sexual intercourse with any number of partners imposed to her, in exchange for money, and still be glad that she was not lead into prostitution, says more about the moral state of France than about its economics.

[Yogi]

Besancenot and friends certainly don't have the right answers, but they do ask the right questions, about inequalities and social injustice, about what to do with the product of the common effort, and so deserve as large an audience as possible.

If you believe just one second that "all humans are born equal", you just can't bear society as it is right now.

As long as capitalism gives more to the richest, you'll have revolutionaries around, and this is a Good Thing.

[Yogi]

> Marchenoir : Picking up one single extreme individual case and pretending it exemplifies a whole country, tells more about your own ideology than anything about the state of France.

[Robert Marchenoir]

Yogi, you wrote:

"Picking up one single extreme individual case and pretending it exemplifies a whole country, tells more about your own ideology than anything about the state of France."

Really, Yogi, this is pathetic. You could at least make an effort. Yours is a template argument offered by French leftists whenever un-PC opinions are aired, and they could not even be bothered to discuss what is being said.

Speaking of ideology, your one-sentence rant has all the obnoxious traits of left-wing behaviour:

- Eschewing open debate;
- Switching to personal attacks when in lack of arguments;
- Laziness.

The case of this lady is by no means isolated. Prostitution among students is becoming a trend in France.

And it is liberally being used, by the practioners themselves, by journalists, by so-called intellectuals and by left-wing militants (of the Besancenot persuasion and beyond) to exemplify the state of the whole country: the poor wimmin' students, exploited by the capitalist state, have to sell their bodies in order to pay their rent, etc.

So it's all right when the Left "exemplifies" these so-called "extreme individual cases", but when a right-wing analysis is being proposed to disprove such whiners, all they can come along with is: "it says more about you", blah-blah-blah.

The Left is hopeless.

[Maggie]

"As long as capitalism gives more to the richest, you'll have revolutionaries around, and this is a Good Thing." (Yogi)

I don't think capitalism GIVES to the richest -- who's doing the giving? I think capitalism just allows talented people to get ahead. It expects people to be competent and to look after themselves.

Eventually there comes a point where there is too much of a gulf between the rich and the poor, so there needs to be some adjustment and redistribution, otherwise there will be a revolution. This has happened throughout history. Sometimes there has been successful adjustment, other times there has been revolution.

Socialist systems have generally shown that it is better to expect people to be competent and to look after themselves as much as possible, because having "experts" deciding who gets what leads to all kinds of problems.

[John Gregory Flinn]

DANIEL STROHL -
Herman Kahn wrote 'The Coming Boom' mainly about the economic future for the US, and he also described the economic union between France and West Germany as the 'locomotive' for Europe. But this was published in 1983.

In fact the Boom has happened, and included all the western economies and elsewhere. Market (capitalist) economics can take the credit for it.
It may be at an end now, as the easy credit - which fuelled much of the recent excess - evaporates.

However the benefits were not evenly spread as is inevitable in a free society where one's own talents make for relative success.
This is what sticks in the craw of ideologues like Besancenot and his heroes who seek to level down humanity and its aspirations, (has 'Animal Farm' been translated into French?).

On the other hand, 'Le Figaro' posed a question for him to explain his new found popularity - polls put LCR on 8%, double the election result.
Perhaps Besancenot has become a kind of lightning conductor for all the anger created following the exhorbitant price-rises in fuel, foodstuffs and the cost of living at a time when an economic downturn seems apparent.

His revolutionary rhetoric fits well against the self-evident impotency of Sarkozy's government in the face of these events, despite the rising tax-take as the Oil price heads skyward. And appeal to the frustrations and resentments of that segment of society which has benefitted little from the recent economic boom.

[christopher muir]

Azloon -
I'm inclined to agree with you.
Anything is possible as a result of today's universal financial and political tensions. "Uncertain future" is repeated endlessly by politicians and commentators. George Soros, just recently on PBS TV, almost had me reaching for the bottle. Besancenot could disappear or be a stayer - who knows? At least he's apparently wacky rather than wicked...

[Ros]

Indeed, Olivier B. has had his first (& probably last) chance to really give his opinions on TV & I see no harm done. In fact, I entirely agree with DAISY "Don't we all get 15 minutes of fame?".
Charles and most of the readers posting seem to think that O.B. is the only politician to have appeared on" Vivement Dimanche" (certainly we have had enough of Drucker & he should retire but he'll go on as did Guy Lux & Co.)In the last few years he's invited: Roselyne Bachelot ( lately & a quite disgraceful performance, Rachida Dati, Segolène,Bernadette (am not sure about Chirac himself?)
Also Jospin, Raffarin, Simone Weil, Jack Lang and maybe more - so what's all the fuss about?
In fact, I think an hour with Le Pen would be quite amusing for a wet sunday afternoon - what's Drucker waiting for?
No, Charles, sorry but Besanceot is neither a "fire-breathing Trotskyite nor " a wacky character".
Nor do I consider Dominique Dhombres of Le Monde an " esteemed television critic" (just read what many of the readers of his articles say about him in their "Have Your Say"!) Not always, I give you, but very often.

[paparuga]

About the growing practice of prostitution among female students in France, there have been recently some voices raised to ask for much more caution with this kind of affirmations. In fact this "growing" phenomenon would rather be a myth.... or maybe quite a fantasm of our society.

Here is an article from citycampus reviewed in rue89 (http://www.rue89.com/2008/04/26/prostitution-etudiante-peu-de-chiffres-et-nombre-de-fantasmes).

How curious ?
Maybe as much as is the extreme fascination in our societies for all the little sordid details of the story and pratices of the "austrian monster" Mr Fritzl, or of his victims ...

[Mauvezin]

What if Besancenot was a fat,old , bold man !??
Besancenot as Ché Guevara are luftballonen full of wind !

[thinknoworpaylater]

AZLOON - Thanks, I wont hold my breath - only my fire.Lets drop all this anti- marxist leninist crap - Russia isnt the issue. Its here and now in Europe (and America) and we have to deal with it. No-one here is making other arguments about capitalisms failures - just feeble critiques of *M-L* positions. People are livingand dying in a situation not of their own making. Speculation in the futures markets ( oil, foodstuffs ) is enormous - perhaps fifty or sixty percent of the increased costs = but then why wouldnt they? Thats the system and currently it's forcing prices up and damaging people. Even if you think Besancenot is wrong in terms of solutions - he is making a point, a critique, about real suffering. Apparently very few here want to recognise that. The State ( generally) cannot admit that it is powerless to deal with external inflationary pressures - to do so would be to admit that it is not all-powerful. Gordon Brown is in the same boat. At the same time I am ashamed about the unfeeling comments here regarding (perhaps unintentionally) the poor or disadvantaged ( pensioners, the low paid) as though it was all their own fault.

[Ros]

thinknoworpaylater : I couldn't agree with you more in spite of not caring for Besanceot's solutions.

[Yogi]

> Marchenoir : Your opinion is by no means "un-PC" ; to me, it is just an all-too-common unproven, fantasized and recurrent urban legend about female students prostitution. As such, no, it does not deserve any better counter argument than mine, and yes, it does tell a lot about your way of thinking.

> Maggie : Allowing talented people to get ahead is just fine.

But allowing this one initial advantage to be kept and aggravated along all successive generations, keeping the poor and uneducated deliberately as such so that they can continue to serve the descendants of the initial lucky ones, is not fine.

Disregarding all concerns about other countries, future generations, or the planet as a whole, for the simple sake of next quarter's benefits, is not fine either.

People simply "looking after themselves", history shows, couldn't care less about foreign or future issues, however dramatic these may be. Run-away capitalism, in my view, cannot be trusted in the long run.

[dot king]

"At the same time I am ashamed about the unfeeling comments here regarding (perhaps unintentionally) the poor or disadvantaged ( pensioners, the low paid) as though it was all their own fault."
(Thinknoworpaylater)

I too sometimes cringe at the lack of regard for one's fellow man (so to speak) that is often aired on this blog, and I'm not so kind as to think it might, even occasionally, be unintentional.
Bon, voilà, ça, c'est fait . . . .

And today we learn that some food-products coming from former Eastern Block countries contain sunflower oil which is cut with motor oil. (Heard on the JR 13h today) We are told the proportion is minimal, less than 10% (rassurant, non?), so when you open your jar of mayonnaise à l'huile de tournesol, or your sardines of same preparation, or whatever à l'huile de tournesol, check where it was elaborated, its country of origin, because it could just contain up to 10% huile de vidange (ie 10% in proportion to the sunflower oil).
Bon appétit!

[Daniel Strohl]

John Gregory,

Thanks for the info regarding Herman Kahn - in my memory, this gentleman wrote about the economic future in the sixties. I was wrong but at least, I was not wrong with his name... Memory is like Alsatian wine, it does not improve with age :))

PS : contrary to a common belief, (very good) Alsatian wines may be stored many years without quality loss in an appropriate cellar. But I am drifting off topic :))

[Jacqueline]

As an American, I find it refreshing that different viewpoints can actually be heard and discussed. In my country, there are two points of view on TV: ultra right conservative and middle of the road "liberals." Anyone else is branded a "communist" i.e. dangerous!
Socialism is also a "bad word". Be grateful for so many points of view which can be discussed and then chosen from.

[monplanet]

Fresh face but same old story.
Olivier Besancenot is poised to play for the next thirty years the title role of "Less work, more money" a remake of "Tax the riches" a blockbuster on the French political stage created by Miss Laguillier.
Happy taxpayers give € 115 to see such a load of rubbish.

[azloon]

[At the same time I am ashamed about the unfeeling comments here regarding (perhaps unintentionally) the poor or disadvantaged (pensioners, the low paid) as though it was all their own fault] THINKNOW

this sounds horrible, Thinknow, but it's true: 'life's a bitch and then you die.'

or, a little more elegantly in the words of John Kennedy (silver spoon born in his mouth if ever there were such a person): "Life isn't fair.'

('but government should be,' was the second phrase of his oft-quoted press conference remarks.)

so, being poor and disadvantaged, tho troubling to witness, is not solved by some large government handout. perhaps the situation can be ameliorated in other ways, such as subsidized housing, aid with food and medical care, programs for gaining further education that would qualify the poor (or their children) for higher paying jobs. These would be examples of JFK's 'fairness' idea. but there is no solution for every unfortunate circumstance.

Opportunity is the greatest commodity that society (aided by government) can provide for the unfortunate. the disadvantaged elderly can live their lives full of hope if they believe their children will succeed more, and live better, than they. those younger citizens, born into poverty, can thrive in a system (tho not easily) that actively seeks to recognize the most able and ambitious among them and provides them with social and financial aid. In fact, an entire social system can "float' on the idea (illusion?) that anything is possible if your work hard enough to achieve it. this is the basis for U.S. social organization.

for many, this may seem an illusory 'sleight of hand,' meant to fool people into some degree of satisfaction. but i think it actually has more than a modicum of truth in it, and is socially useful as well.

i really don't think this could work in france where social rigidity, and, imo, a distorted interpretation of the notion of 'egalite,' would make laughable the idea of clawing one's way out of the banlieue and into success. tho perhaps i am wrong about this possibility.

so, it's surely not the poor's fault. it just is. and there are a few things, at the margin, that can be done to help.

i don't think i need to add that a communist revolution would not be my favored approach.

[Tuesday Sherwood]

No, life is not fair - as I have been at pains too stress to my children. I found Charles Bremner's initial article disappointingly simplistic, "dumbed down". Considering that apparently comments are moderated for posting on this blog I wonder what some of the correspondents really think?! People who resort to polemic are unbalanced and suffer from insecurity. We should all take personal responsibility and try to look after ourselves but also we should look out for our fellow men. As the pressures of increasing population mount and poeple become more insular and worried for thier own security and future, their ideas become more extreme as they try to grasp at straws. All problems have to be gone THROUGH; the troubles we are currently encountering on a global scale belong to everybody and there is no quick fix or way around them.

[Note from CB: I'm not aware of any comment ever being edited out of any post since this blog began in 2005 -- unless they have contained offensive language or personal abuse. So be assured, Ms Sherwood, what you see is what people are saying. ]

[dot king]

"Considering that apparently comments are moderated for posting on this blog I wonder what some of the correspondents really think?! People who resort to polemic are unbalanced and suffer from insecurity." Tuesday Sherwood

Comments are moderated in that anything Charles Bremner considers to be personally insulting is edited out, occasionally some things get through, and sometimes things get edited and one doesn't understand why.
I certainly say what I think when I post and to my knowledge/opinion there are only two or three bloggers who don't - mainly because they don't seem to know what they think and change it keep an argument going for its own sake, or use the blog as a vehicle for their own purposes. But we can or not, as free beings, take notice, scroll down, ignore, pass over, read carefully - c'est à nous de choisir. (Et à vous si vous le voulez bien.)
Everyone else expresses their opinion, they get agreement, dsagreement, support, explanations, links to information or entertainment - an exchange in other words.

By saying that bloggers might think other than what they post you are potentially opening up a polemic - who does, who doesn't etc - so you might well be "unbalanced and suffering from insecurity" and in need of help.

You can't make that kind of comment and exclude yourself from it.
"flotter comme ces toiles d'araignée qui ne touchent jamais la terre" (paraphrase but nearly quotation) J-P S

[John Gregory Flinn]

"... that "all humans are born equal"..."

YOGI-
I was going to ignore your initial posting of this facile comment, but since you choose to be emphatic about it I feel obliged to respond.
My brother would refute your axiom (if he could) since his gestation included an undetected uterine cyst which constricted his oxygen supply and left him physically and mentally handicapped at birth.

This personal example is not meant as an excuse to be pedantic, but to challenge the 'assumption'.
Also, apart from the hand of nature, we are all at the mercy of our genetic codes, which provide - to varying degrees - the basis for us to use and develop any talents.

[Yogi]

> JG FLINN : The full quote is, of course "all humans are born equal IN RIGHTS", as, clearly, however equal I may feel to Carl Lewis, I do not run as fast as he does.
Differently put, nature makes us different, ie somehow unequal, but society shall not add a second layer.

[Robert Marchenoir]

"Marchenoir : Your opinion is by no means 'un-PC' ; to me, it is just an all-too-common unproven, fantasized and recurrent urban legend about female students prostitution." (Yogi)

Oh, I see. So all these female students volunteering to explain journalists how and why they chose to sell their bodies are just "fantasizing". They are probably lying to get a flattering image of themselves in the media.

This film student at the Sorbonne who boasts about being a porn actor is certainly lying, too, even though she mentioned the nom de plume of her director (John B.Root, an astute pun with the equivalent of "dick" in French).

Of course Mr. Dick, who is a celebrity of sorts even outside of his milieu, won't bother about this supposedly blatant lie laid out in the papers, and won't come down like a ton of bricks on Miss What's Her Name.

Also, all these journalists, commentators and assorted intellectuals publicly wringing their hands about the horrors of capitalism, whenever these stories get aired in the media, never existed.

It seems you have a big problem distinguishing between facts and opinions.

[Yogi]

> Marchenoir : I do recognize facts : that young girl does exist, and she does indeed work for John B.Root. You just jump on that isolated factoid and pretend to draw general conclusions. Along your line, did you know that all elderly Austrian people rape their daughters ?

[azloon]

Getting back to the subject of the poor and disadvantaged, i have a financially-successful friend who often says that he was born into such extreme poverty that if he hadn't been born male, he wouldn't have had anything to play with.

[John Gregory Flinn]

> JG FLINN : The full quote is, of course "all humans are born equal IN RIGHTS",

Who says?
Another human?

Such arrogance of humanity to know no humility!

[Goran]

Its amazing how little people here really know!
The 20.000 dead in the wake of the Paris Commune was victims of the counterrevolution, not of the Commune itself.
I´m with Olivier Becancenot and a ardent fighter for better schools in Britain...