French children beat weight problem

A glance is often enough to tell the nationality of the groups of young tourists who throng the street outside our office on the Place de l'Opéra. You don't need to listen to the language or study the dress. The American kids are really wide. The Britons are next in excessive girth followed by Germans, Australians and Russians.

All right, that's an intolerant generalisation. Obesity is a global epidemic and Americans and Brits are just leading the way, we are told. The "thin" countries like France are fast catching up, thanks to junk food and the sedentary habits of their kids. I read in a US newspaper: "Child obesity is the new 'normal' of the 21st century. It will remain that way".

Well, perhaps not. This week, France reported that it has stopped the rise in overweight children over the past decade or so.

The news emerged from the 2008 European Congress on Obesity in Geneva. One study showed that there was no change in the weight of French seven to nine-year-olds between 2000 and 2007. In another survey the French Food Safety Agency (AFSSA) found no significant change in random samples of three to 17-year-olds in 1998-99 and 2006-2007.

The French results have caused a stir because they are the first evidence that it is possible to stop the blight of obesity that is sweeping the affluent world -- including France. The experts are being cautious, but credit for the French success is being given to programmes that have been running for over a decade.

A national effort to change children's eating habits began in 1992 with something called EPODE, for Ensemble, prevenons l'obésité des enfants, or Together, let's prevent obesity in children. This set out to diagnose and treat children with weight problems. It also helped schools educate children in healthy eating.

Primary school kids have partaken since the early 1990s in an annual "taste week" and school cantines provide quality menus. Since 2005 processed food and drink vending machines have been removed from schools. The Government is now trying to persuade supermarkets to stop displaying high-calorie sweets and snacks at their check-out counters and food advertising is to be stopped on children's television programmes. Everyone in France now knows the official recommendation: eat five different types of fruit and vegetable every day.

The AFSSA agency says the results are encouraging, though French children still suffer from unacceptable fatness. About 14 percent are overweight and 3.5 percent class as obese. This is just above Sweden and the Netherlands, which have the lowest rates. In Britain, which has a severe problem, about one third of children are overweight or obese. 

Obviously national culture plays a big role. Servings of all food are still much smaller in France than in the English-speaking countries. For all their fondness for video games and le Macdo, as MacDonald's is known, French youngsters still sit down to meals with their families.

Pascale Briand, Director-General of the food agency, told us that France has an advantage that is difficult to export. "The respect for the organisation of meals, their times, the notion of eating for pleasure, are all favourable factors in France," she told Marie Tourres, our Paris reporter. 

We sought the opinion of Patrick Serog, a nutritionist, physician who co-wrote a best-seller called Savoir Manger -- eating right.

"We have a cultural advantage over the Anglo-Saxon countries in particular. We eat as a convivial exercise, not just to nourish ourselves," he said. "That enables us to have a fixed food structure, with a first course, main course and dessert and a varied menu. The body regulates itself better."

After all the awareness campaigns, the message has finally got through. Eating five fruits and vegetables per day is impossible, but the ideal ends up penetrating and as a result people try to reach it.

But nothing is won in the long term, says Serog. "Food habits change fast. It is easier for les Anglo-Saxons to export their soda than for France to export its food exception."

 

Comments

[richard jones]

If there is one country that should be producing balanced diets at sensible times for their children it is France. What is a bit daft is blaming the initial surpoids on the Anglo-Saxons when non-Latins like Holland and Sweden are so well placed, or is this the usual French 'hit' on the US and UK? France, perfectly correctly, should be taking the position of what we can show the world without that needless opening posture.
Greece, with its emphasis on family (indeed extended family) life is beginning to voice concern over the obesity issue as well. I would be interested to see where Greece is in this league table, whatsit called??

[Jorg Andersen]

Good for France. But as they say, it's a very cultural thing. The whole French approach to eating is completely different from the British or the Americans, with their endless snacking and munching. The Germans (and Austrians) fall somewhere between the two. Meals are still a family affair, but bulk is one of our traditions, unlike France. There is always more on the plate...

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

I was surprised to see Russians there with the heavies. Does anyone remember the siege of a school when the children jumped from a window and ran to safety? There was not one overweight kid. In fact they looked as if they were on wartime rastions, the way British children looked 1939-1945 (and after, for sweets were on the ration unti the 50's (They were taken off once and I remember the huge fat women in queues outside every sweet shop, buying everyrhing, and there was nothing left for the children, so the Govt brought back sweet ratilning!).
French children do not get "pocket money". In cafes there can be 20-30 kids on a Sunday afternoon,bored, and not a coffee between them. "But they are my future customers" the patron will say. Children in the UK are spoilt rotten, some with £10 and £15 a week to spend on snacks, and my street is full of litter as they go home from school.

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

P.S. Other countries should copy the excellent French custom of the children stopping for "gouter" mid morning and possibly afternoon also. Is it a custom in France only?

[azloon]

This may have something to with the food exam that french infants are required to pass 10/10 before breast milk is permitted to flow.

btw, the best to keep your fit and trim, or to lose weight is to eat less. that's a hard message to receive. too simple.

btw, while the smug french are extolling the values of family meals, spaniards and italians are behaving identically. how do they compare with the svelte french.

and how does anorexia figure in here?

[I don't have the stats, Azloon, (it's Sunday) but the young Italians and Spanish do not do nearly as well as the French on the fatness stakes. I won't venture an explanation, but others may care to. As has already been mentioned, the Greeks also are big on traditional family meals and they are one of the more overweight of European countries. Go figure. On Anorexia, it'd be interesting to see comparative figures. France passed a law the other day against inciting self-starvation. CB]

[Marguerite.]

C'est vrai qu'aux Etats-Unis, en dehors des villes comme New York ou San Francisco, on voit beaucoup d'obeses. Et ils savent que ce n'est pas bon pour leur sante et que cela coute cher au pays. Mais, ce qui est bien, c'est qu'ils n'ont pas honte de se promener en short et de manger des grosses glaces et des assiettes de frites.
Depuis l'arrivee du printemps et la menace estivale des maillots de bains , mes amies ne font que parler de leurs kilos en trop.Il y en a une qui ne boit que de la soupe au choux depuis 15 jours, l'autre qui ne mange que des fruits et une troisieme qui se fait rouler des batons armes de boules sur les cuisses pour "casser" sa cellulite, moyennant une petite fortune.

[Francois Premier]

You are right, c'est culturel... I am amazed when I am in America to see the size of the portions that they serve you... and those are just the appetizers before you start the meal! There must be thousands of calories and you have not even started dining....

[richard jones]

Greek schools have 'gouter' as well, although many do not bother with the afternoon one as the main meal of the day will be ready in the Greek home. AZLOON, I would be grateful if you send me your stat. source (EASO does not help me) as it is now becoming a concern in Greece largely assisted in my view by the Greek idea of a full plate with the whole meal - well mesedes(entrées) on one plate the rest next on the same plate.
Sophoclean guilt is pointed at the increasing need for women to work thus more makeshift foods.

[azloon]

btw3, re Charles comments about smaller portions

my francophone/francophile Mother was a gourmet cook who served delicious small portions. so small in fact that i could never invite friends over to dinner, as they had me, because there was no spare food. in fact, hardly enough for our own family....particularly as 'starving' teen-age boys.

i married a serb who believed, as serb peasants do (and, as Valentin can confirm, they are all peasants at heart, even with PhDs) that if you don't have enough food for your guests, they won't come to your funeral.

so in the the 28 years we were married, our family threw out enough food to have a significant effect on relief efforts in sub-saharan africa.

--------

an amusing legible t-shirt, not likely to be spotted in the bistros and cafes of Neuilly:

DIET
EXERCISE
DIE ANYWAY

[razatork]

Maybe this also has to do with female beauty standards: the country the most affected by obesity seem to be those where women are prefered curvy(England, usa, spain, italy), then i guess it's just a trickledown effect:
if it's most desirable to be 170 pounds for a girl then it's ok to be 185, and not alarming to be 200.

In france the standards for female beauty is to be svelte, a fat woman has zero chances of finding a mate, and curvy women are looked at as whores.

Same goes for sweden by the way, they are obsessed (as in OBSESSED) with their looks, and the standard is for the guys to be tall a muscular and the girls rather petite and fit. To their defense the result is often quite worth it, scores of very good looking girls over there.

All the food education is passed from mother to children, if the mom has sloppy eating habits, her kids will be fat.

That's just my opinion of course.

[Robert Marchenoir]

"The Greeks also are big on traditional family meals and they are one of the more overweight of European countries." (CB)

For quite a while after the war, some housewives in Greece had the mentality of Azloon's wife: unless you fell off your chair having stuffed yourself to death, the meal was not finished.

Maybe it had something to do with prolonged poverty. Maybe it was a reaction to the tens of thousands who died of starvation during the Second world war. People were just dropping dead in the street of Athens, at that time, and corpses were retrieved in the morning.

However, it seems the traditional Greek fare was not obesity-inducing (unless you overdid it, of course): fish, vegetables and olive oil are not supposed to make you fat.

I suspect any present-day obesity would be of a different kind, the American type (no offence meant): feeding oneself off snacks, gulping rivers of sodas, etc.

By the way, Azloon, I think the Serbs' attitude, the way you describe it, is quite civilised and moving; if somewhat impractical and irritating at times, obviously.

[rocket]

As far as the Spanish are concerned most of their food is fried and often in inferior quality oil. Portions are much bigger in Spain than in France and food in general is cheaper in Spain. The Spanish love fried foods and tell me about the ham!

All of these things are horribly fattening.

For breakfast they eat churros con chocolate.

http://www.doitinspain.com/images/foto/churros.jpg

Then a big lunch around 3pm followed by a siesta. (Yes, it's true except in Madrid)

Around 6 - 7 pm they begin to "merendar" which means an early evening snack usually of tapas which are bathed in grease and beer and other aperitifs and snacks such as potato chips

At about 10 pm they sit down to eat. More grease and potatoes or other fatty foods fried in oils. Don't even mention the patatas bravas

http://www.multimadrid.com/grfx/eats/aps/bravas.jpg

During my last trip to Spain I was in Valencia and went into my favorite Italian restaurant and decided to get the Scalopini Milanese. (I have some problems with Spanish food) Well I have eaten them in Italy and they were well cooked, thin and not overly fried with the "chapelure" This one I got in Spain was the size of Valencia itself and about half a kilometer thick bathed in oil.

Before I had ordered the patatas bravas. Ugh

So I don't think it's a question about sitting down with the family but moreso about the kind of food that is put in the plate.

Tests have been done which show that the more food you put in people's plate's the more they will eat regardless if they are hungry or not.

For anyone interested in learning more

http://tinyurl.com/6ojhnf

Rastatork

"In france the standards for female beauty is to be svelte, a fat woman has zero chances of finding a mate, and curvy women are looked at as whores."

Oh really!

***********************

In the US some people are so fat that they have to be wheeled around in wheel chairs. And I'm talking about people in their 40s and 50s. If you don't believe me go to Las Vegas.

France has a very healthy attitude towards food and a good education as per the effect of food on the human body and effects on behavior.

Unfortunately only a few know this in America but the Food processors are too powerful for this information to be spread throughout the general public. Another problem in America is that a lot of the food has no taste or is loaded with sugar to compensate for this and to help regulate the taste buds of Americans. I never ate any fruit and very few veggies before coming to France. reason. No taste! When I got here I learned that yes food does have taste.

As for the smaller portions in France, I don't care anymore, because I know in the long run the larger ones will shorten my life.

[Roger Goodacre]

From my day-to-day observation - I live opposite a girls' school and next to a college in London - I have difficulty taking seriously the assertion that one third of children (a huge proportion) in Britain are 'overweight or obese'.

No doubt this is the case in certain communities, socio-economic groups or geographical areas, but as a generalisation it defies what you can see with your eyes.

I suspect it's part of the scare tactics of our 'health and safety' mafia. This isn't to deny that children in this country consume large amounts of junk food: the sight of mothers feeding young kids packets of crisps on the bus on the way to or from school to keep them quiet is pretty depressing.

But although I imagine that the health authorities know that the problem is acute among certain identifiable groups, they prefer for political reasons and out of political correctness to demonise the whole of society.

Paradoxically, if these statistics have any validity at all, they suggest that the unprecedented amounts of money that the UK government spends on advertising campaigns hammering home the need for 'five fruit 'n veg a day' is counter-productive.

[qwerty]

Americans frequently sneer at the importance the French give to good food (too "fancy" for them) and eating rituals. I think American taste-buds have been permanently (and genetically) impaired by decades of munching Hershey bars, Sarah Lee cake preparations, in which the main ingredients seem to be artificial flavouring, artificial colours, and vitamin supplements. (And the national staple, hamburger, they can't go without for more than a week).

I personally tend to salivate in front of the fruit and vegetable stand at any French market in spring, summer or autumn. As well as the fish stand. The best in French food is the variety of natural produce, and "cuisine du marché". It's good AND it's healthy.

The French "exception" to obesity is probably explained by this variety and quality of food, education of French taste-buds, and structured meals that are shared with family. Maybe there is less eating alone in front of the TV than in anglo-saxon countries.

[richard jones]

Qwerty, On my observation there is no less eating alone in front of TV in France than in other comparable countries. The diffrence is what's eaten - salad or cheese or very small light dishes in France - in other countries burgers, bacon and other heavyweight sandwiches lumpen pasta.
I wonder if anybody has done any research on the diet versus daily calendar - eg Greece (probably largely true of Spain, Portugal and Italy south of Rome) 07:00 breakfast quite large, with perhaps some meat and cheese - 14:00 - 14;30 Lunch - largest meal of day - siesta(does this do anything to absorption of food?) - 21:00 Supper - fairly light - 24:00 bed.

[rocket]

This is the problem.

Every restaurant is trying to outdo the others in the USA for example.

We think

Size does matter!

http://tinyurl.com/39elbd

Check out this restaurant and their advertising

http://www.heartattackgrill.com/

[Ros]

I certainly agree with what RICHARD jONES & others say "The difference is what's eaten - salad or cheese or very small light dishes in France - in other countries burgers, bacon and other heavyweight sandwiches lumpen pasta."ROCKET is right too, saying the Spaniards fry most things in low quality oil & has anyone ever tasted what they call "butter"? As for Italians they have an extra problem - i.e. filling themselves up with Pasta (nourishing I admit) as a starter & not a main dish.
QWERTY: If you are ALONE, then you eat ALONE in front of TV - on the other hand, I know many french families (specially in the Provinces) who sit around the table in a convival way but also look at TV- watching the news at 8pm & then the prime-time programme, whereas the UK programmes are arranged differently = nothing special between 8 & 9pm.

[Marie]

It's not just the kids that are slim in France - unlike the UK it is uncommon to see a woman in her 30's, 40's or even 50's who is not slim and quite toned. No wonder kids get tubby if their parents let themselves get lazy and fat.

[Juan]

Good on them. French food is not "Mediterranean" thou, not by and large. Mediterraneans are large too, but they seem to be happy and getting fat on healthy diets, which I think makes a difference. Traditional French food contains more fat than any other diet, which goes to show how wrong most people's ideas about diet are.

[Juan]

"ROCKET is right too, saying the Spaniards fry most things in low quality oil"

Not true, I have to say. Spaniards fry things, traditionally on sunflower seed oil, which is as good as olive oil, yet without the aroma, which is lost anyway as the oil touches the hot pan.

I find it interesting that British traditionally dislike Spanish food but LOVE Mediterranean food. Can anybody explain this to me?

[John Styx]

Peter Kinsley: French children do get pocket money ("argent de poche"). Most young children use it to buy candy. Carambars and Malabars were the staple products when I was in elementary school; I guess it's still the case. I still remember Carambars used to cost 20 centimes and Malabars 30c.

I was educated in a Catholic school; we went to confess about once in a month. The priest assumed naturally that "eating too much candy" was a sin committed by all pupils. I never had much of a sweet tooth, so when I protested, he just answered "it saves time". And France does know about artery-clogging breakfast cereals.

I'm very surprised by Mr Serog's statement: "Eating five fruits and vegetables per day is impossible." No it isn't. A fruit per meal, a legume course (starter or main course) for lunch and dinner and there your are.

[Juan]

The problem with Britain is the lack of a food culture, somehow even more pathetic than in the US.

The army of snacks in every shop, everybody counting calories and snacking, in fact counting calories as they snack, the huge amounts of beer they drink.

It's all very sad and a bit underdeveloped if you ask me.

[azloon]

[By the way, Azloon, I think the Serbs' attitude, the way you describe it, is quite civilised and moving; if somewhat impractical and irritating at times, obviously.]

yes Robert M., not even irritating per se. it just seemed like 'overkill' to me sometimes. but i preferred it to my my mother's perfectionistic, minimalist approach (she once burst into tears when one of her souffles deflated). my ex's relaxed, "pile it on" approach definitely seemed warmer and more welcoming.

anyway, if the serb beliefs have any credence, her funeral will be SRO (standing room only).

[calgirl]

The factor of time pressure should be considered as well. Long hours at work and commuting make it difficult for many Americans to find the time necessary on weeknights to prepare healthful, well-balanced meals with fresh ingredients. Too often, processed "convenience" foods are relied upon to speed up the process of meal preparation.

[Seb]

I've worked as a French language assistant in a couple of schools in Wales and still can't believe how bad was the food at the canteen: oily wedges and sausages or cod and chips were often the only two choices for the kids - for a ridiculous price. In France you can have a healthy full lucnh - starter, main course, dairy product and fruit/dessert - for less than 2€50. The education starts at school and it should apply to food habits even if a lot of other reasons explain the high obesity rate in the UK. You just have to go shopping at any superstore around the country: there is more choice of crisps and biscuits than veggies and fruits. Et je ne parle pas de la consommation de bière...

[Alexandre MARTIN]

Part of the answer is in educating people on taste, on savours ( sweet, bitter, sour ), on cooking for "dummies", on understanding what you eat.

As a "cooking french father" my experience tells that no sooner than yesterday our elder daughter asked me for cauliflower gratin. She loves carots,broccoli, french fries with green salad, fresh uncooked cauliflower with dressings, relishes lamb and rabbit. And she just cannot wait to be old enough to eat oysters whose salted water she loves.

She is never asked what or if she wants to eat this or that. She gets as much as she wants at meal times, nothing in between except for the 4PM gouter of fruit biscuit and yogurt.
Sodas, sparkling apple juices are for specials only and because it is not her everyday meal she loves crackers at week-end's apéros.

There is nothing special in this as I was educated as such by my parents. My wife is of better off origins, used to restaurants, traiteur, sweets and pocket money ... she stopped being concerned with her weight when we settled together and appointed me as her "chief".

It takes some efforts to deal properly with food as it takes some efforts no to start/to stop smoking or to drink with measure.

[dot king]

"The problem with Britain is the lack of a food culture, somehow even more pathetic than in the US."
(Juan)
This isn't true, there is a food culture in Britain, it just isn't the same as the French one nor the mediterranean one.
Possibly climate accounts for it, and longer, colder winters. More potatoes and root vegetables certainly make for a stodgier diet, but I well remember being dictated to in domestic science lessons at school about how to balance carbohydrates, fats, vitamins and which foods to find them in, in order to nourish my future family correctly.
Oysters, for example, were once an integral ingredient in a Lancashire hotpot (from the Ribble Estuary) long before they became a luxury or aphrodisiac food - they were plentiful - quite simple.
And Britain has (I think) nearly as many cheeses as France.
And if a Cottage Pie isn't more or less the same thing as Hachis Parmentier, and Cauliflower Cheese as Choufleur au Gratin (all "fancy foreign muck" my mother woukd have said) then I'll toy with a lettuce leaf!

[azloon]

[The factor of time pressure should be considered as well] CALGIRL] (i had to look at that twice)

Absence of time pressure is 'la mode de vie' that french reactionaries (who used to '68 revolutionaries) may be defending when they take to the streets.

so these events could be viewed as food riots.

avoidance of time pressure is an article of faith for les francaises. i imagine it's one of the few principles they'd risk their lives for.

[Ros]

Sorry, JUAN, I didn't mean to be rude about the oil - it was probably just my bad luck! On the other hand, I really don't think "that British traditionally dislike Spanish food but LOVE Mediterranean food." - I think most Brits (& certainly myself) LOVE tapas, paella,chorizo, mantecados, turron & all those lovely sweet things - anyhow, have never been really sure what is real Mediterranean food - olive oil, olives, poivrons, brandade de morue from Nimes, salade niçoise which is served in every parisian Brasserie ?

[Francois D]

I think it would be quite risky to believe that epidemic obesity, including infants, is mastered in France.

It is true that statistical stabilisation seems to appear, but I swear to you that there are still many cases, probably with regional variations (still "epidemic" in Northern France). Some regions (Toulouse country) are more advanced than others for screening and care (screening school and supported cares by specialized network according levels). I am convinced that prevention preschool (before 4 years) is equally important and prevention must begin very more early ("in the cradle"). Breastfeeding is a prevention ... It is necessary to recall the role of the companies of collective restoration in the schools for developping children's taste (inclusion of these prevention's measurements in the public contracts with these companies)

D'not forget that obesity is a family disease reaching the poors in rich countries (and the richs in poor countries).

Links on preventing food (in English)

http://www.sante.gouv.fr/htm/pointsur/nutrition/1nbis.htm

The guide "Health comes from eating" is very well done; It was sold 1 euro in newsagents shops (exhausted) It can be charged in pdf (135 pages). Influences for these recommandations of "mediterraneen alimentation" particularly from Crete island.

http://www.inpes.sante.fr/CFESBases/catalogue/pdf/581.pdf

Five different components (fruits or vegetables) a day is good, but ten is better (that is possible and that can be a familly game).

The other point is to promote activities: 20 minutes walk alive by day help to lose 5 kgs per year. You can compensate for the weekend if not possible during the week..

Practice of pickups school bus is contributory for overweight . Help children to compensate.

[George]

Azloon - how can a Serb with a PhD be a "peasant" other than in the literal sense of being a farm labourer (of which I doubt there are many with PhDs) ?

[azerty]

Une des differences entre la France et le Royaume Uni est "la pause repas" du dejeuner à l'école avec un dejeuner structuré. Dans les écoles, les repas sont en général conçus par des diététiciens, donc équilibrés. Une autre différence est qu'en France on mange moins de nourriture transformée (processed food) - c'est moins dans la culture.

[Daniel Strohl]

If anybody is interested to know in detail how obesity may affect health of children and teenagers, please have a look at an excellent article published yesterday in the Washington Post :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/17/AR2008051701373_2.html?sid=ST2008050900425?hpid=topnews

[Ros]

I quite agree with DOT KING who says "And if a Cottage Pie isn't more or less the same thing as Hachis Parmentier, and Cauliflower Cheese as Choufleur au Gratin " - I don't think the French have heard of Shepherd's Pie (made with lamb instead of beef) but certainly nothing to stop one getting some minced lamb and there you are! I'm sure there are lots of other equivalents too but can't think of them just now ....

[colin grayson]

I can't speak for the validity or not of all the statistics quoted on this subject ; but I wonder if the difference is the fact that france is far more rural than , for example , the uk or the USA [ or spain for that matter
where I live in rural france the people , to some degree , subsist... thanks to their vegetable gardens!

but with increasing affluence [ working wives in part ] things are changing ; every month frozen food trucks deliver to the village [ orders placed in advance ] ; and the local supermarket has just spent €35,000 on a new cabinet for ready to eat frozen meals ;according to the manager a fast growing section of his sales , so looks like france is on the slippery slope as well

I look forward to visiting the uk ...for the food ; any small town will have a good variety of restaurants of varying ethnicities; in france they are much of a muchness unless you can afford the pretty -pretty variety which don't appeal to me anymore [ after too many business lunches !]
some years ago I read the result of a survey here in france , what was peoples favourite main course in a restaurant ? easy winner ? steak and chips

[azloon]

George

re PhD peasants

I was referring to my former spouse who had a doctorate and certainly was a peasant 'at heart.' she admitted it, and took pride in it.

her core mentality didn't differ much from her serbian grandparents who lived on the second floor of a house in the rugged montenegran hills with livestock living/mooing/oinking on the ground floor (and i mean 'ground.')

fortunately, for me, her peasant leanings never took us the point of bringing livestock into hour house. we had enough problems as it was.

This food debate, i detect, is taking on the tone of some of the other protracted strings where prejudices run deep. food is a very personal subject, as we can see. i guess there's nothing like nazism and food to get the blood running.

personally, i think junk food, taken in moderation, is a good thing and healthy of mind. greasy hamburgers, Chitos (they look but don't taste like baby carrots), sour cream 'n onion and B-B-Que potato chips are my favorites (this is a very personal area).

food hysterics who rail on and on about needing the five basic food groups every day probably have hysterical ideas in other areas of their lives as well. and, oh my god, how smug they are!

food hysterics also tend to forget humans have been living to old age for millennia on diets consisting of meat carcass and tree roots. .

and have parents ever considered 'starving' their own obese children a little, as a gesture towards their understanding what half the world feels like every day. yeah, starve them. toughens them up. it's too too bad the u.s. isn't inclined to control its citizens to the extent that france is. we would certainly need a french-style law mandating controlled starvation of obese american children.

France apparently has mastered the problem through a combination of early education and anorexia.

so, if the French need to feel superior in this area of life, i say, please go ahead. you certainly give food a lot more thought than most americans, so the country clearly deserves the nobel prize for food. oh, i forgot, there isn't one.

btw, does France have any of those grotesque food eating contests, as they do in japan and the u.s.? one wouldn't think so, would one?

remember, everything in moderation.

As an English student studying in Paris, I've noticed the French approach to cooking and eating does seem to be fresher and more convivial than that of the English, and the numerous student restaurants offering a three-course meal with bread for €2.80 are unbeatable for quality and value. For young people - children forming eating habits and students on a budget- it's great, cheap and varied. However, as has been mentioned above, many Parisian women in their 40's and 50's are as thin as teenagers. Coincidentally, unlike in the UK where all we have to endure is that Special K advert telling you to eat only cereal for two weeks to drop a jeans size (genius), French TV frequently and shamelessly plugs various kinds of slimming aids, including diet pills to 'mincer 24/7': slim day and night. Is it slightly naive to gush admiringly over French women who, the British seem to think, attain this seemingly-effortless svelteness solely by buying and cooking proper meals with fresh produce? After four months of eating French-style, my jeans don't fit anymore. There must be a sinister secret.

[John Styx]

Azloon, France has Flamby swallowing contests (try "Flamby swallowing" in YouTube and enjoy).

I tend to agree with Colin. Rural parts in France eat more healthily than urban parts, were people eat just like anyone else in the Western world. My school restaurant underwent repairs when I was in high school and was closed for a year. All pupils ate in the Mouffetard Street, a famous Parisian street best known for what a pal of mine calls 'listeria dispensers'. So we ate kebabs (which should be known as 'killer kebabs', according to the Daily Star), panini, crêpes (egg, ham and grated cheese being the usual filling) every school day for a whole year. Not that the school restaurant was any better. Vegs were half of the time waterlogged French beans, more akin to stick insects than to real food. Most of use stuck to French fries or ate outside (we all had pocket money). Amazingly, none of my school mates became fatties. I suppose we all had good metabolism.

[dot king]

"in france they are much of a muchness" Colin Grayson

hear hear - variation south-west:
duck 'n'chips
or duck 'n' chips 'n' salade verte moitié moitié

[dot king]

"Coincidentally, unlike in the UK where all we have to endure is that Special K advert telling you to eat only cereal for two weeks to drop a jeans size (genius)"

They have the Special K ads here (in France) too; I had friends in the UK (sadly out of touch) who published a book on junk foods ("More than we can chew") in which, after tests, they found that you would get more nourishment from eating the packet than the contents.

As a student I had the good fortune to be on a campus twinned with Nîmes and on a week's visit, our French Studies group in that lovely town, ate every day at a local école maternelle/primaire - the food was excellent!

[Christine Cavill]

A few facts
1.There's no such thing as lamb mince here in France, even at Halal butchers. Beef mince is created from one's preferred cuts, and put though the machine as one waits. Mincing lamb would foul up the machine.
2.Sadly, there is enormous pressure to conform, which results in primary school girls being measureably smaller than boys.
3.Try getting mature sized clothing. In the USA, I was one size up from smallest, here I am often too big for the largest sizes stocked. A big incentive to control one's shape for those not handy with a needle.
4.Celebratory social eating can be a gut busting marathon. Our repas des ainés takes over four hours, from apéro to digestive, broken only by dancing. Typical sailing club feasts are charcuterie, main course meat, local cheeses and maybe an omelette Norvegienne. Wine à volonté.
5.McDos meet a real need if one cannot fit into the traditional timetable, since they serve at all reasonable hours, enabling long journeys to be broken.

[V]

"does France have any of those grotesque food eating contests, as they do in japan and the u.s."

Not to my knowledge. Anyway it wouldn't be classy :)

The Serbian stories sound right, peasant mentality and all (which I would rather call healthy, although it can indeed get irritatingly conservative at times).

Food. In France, one is starving to death. Those portions are ridiculously petite. Especially when one is used with the whole traditionalist cuisine of sausages and other similar specialties - very popular in Germany too btw. Oh and the cheese, I could never get used to those tiny, exceedingly expensive pieces, disgusted as a dessert, with sugar on etc.
French are weird.

[V]

Speaking about peasant mentalities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg44qKSbsdQ

[Peter Athey]

When I moved from Sweden to France in 1978 the most striking thing I noticed was the difference between the company canteen /restaurant d'entreprise. Same company; two entirely different cultures where food was concerned.

In Sweden, for lunch, the canteen invariably served a bread roll, a yoghurt, a piece of cold meat or smoked fish with a lettuce leaf, a piece of cheese and an apple. This, together with a bottle of mineral water or carton of milk was the client's choice: ie: no choice.

In the restaurant d'entreprise of the same company in France at the self-service lunch counter there was a choice of 4 or 5 different breads, at least 10 different 'hors d'oeuvres', 5 different 'à la carte' hot dishes with the requisite vegetables/potatoes plus the 'plat du jour' and the standard cold ham or beef and several other salad dishes. This was followed by a selection of yoghurts, 7 or 8 cheeses, and 5 different desserts together with a choice of ice-creams/sorbets. There was always a choice of at least 6 seasonal fruits. In a separate chill counter there were 1/4 bottles of red, white and rosé wines, low alcohol beers, soft drinks, fruit juices, milk and flat or sparkling water. Coffee, tea & hot chocolate were served at a special counter.

You could ALWAYS tell who was French and who was a visitor from the scandinavian headquarters when you visited the restaurant. The french had one starter, one hot dish and maybe cheese or a dessert plus a beverage on their tray; the foreigners had several hors d'oeuvres, a main course piled high with food, a couple of cheeses and desserts, one or two fruits, wine, beer and a mineral water.

In both countries the restaurants were subsidised by the firm so the cost was minimal to the individual. I calculated the difference as being only a couple of francs between the low-maintenance French and high-maintenance foreigners. So I concluded that the French culture inculcates a certain calorific frugality in its citizens whereas us barbarian gluttons, with eyes almost as big as our stomachs, wanted to consume as much of this harvest of good food as possible in this life.

[qwerty]

Peter Athey on French vs. foreign eating habits in canteens: I think the basic common-sense French rule is "manger de tout, mais pas trop". Slim people automatically know when to stop eating: when they've had enough.

But Azloon: there's nothing against occasionally having barbecue and fast food, which feels deliciously transgressive (I was punished the other day when I broke a pre-molar chewing a primitive lamb chop in a very primitive manner).

Did your Serbian wife make cherry strudel? I know a couple of Serbs...

[colin grayson]

christine , hate to tell you this but the famous steak hache [ ground beef for american's I think ] is something that is available in my local supermarket in 2 forms

in the butchery , made in one of those machines you describe , pick your cut etc , spits it out in nice hamburger sized pieces

in the frozen food department , 1Kg boxes presented in individual 100 gram packets , choice of fat content between 5 and 20 % [ advice from my wife who believes in cooking without added fat where possible ...for best results buy the 15 % , and drain the fat off when it has done it's job ]
prices are very similar , made on the spot can be more expensive or cheaper ....the famous french promo system again

there are , of course , hamburgers in the cabinet , cheaper, and given to the kids we understand ; no comment

so there you are , perfect market situation ; you pays your money , you makes your choice [ apologies to those unfamiliar with this piece of vernacular ]

what do french customers choose ? 80% go for the frozen product it appears , up from 0% 20 years ago

and , to nobody's surprise , this is increasing all the time , as it is mainly older people who will stand and wait for the butcher to prepare the fresh product for them

will today's younger folk change to queueing up when they age ; somehow I doubt it ; well , I haven't , anyway

[Francois D]

To the "anonymous English student" in Paris and the "sinister secret".
Don't fetch Da Vinci code near St Sulpice church, but try that:
- Keep the same "student restau" because it is supervised by dieteticians and never take the same meal for a second time (if forbidden, it's better).
- Take a substantial breakfast with slow sugars and proteins, no or very few lipids (bread/ cereals from the next bakery if possible with "pain complet" ie with fibers, jam with "law sugar", very little butter, you may smoothly toast..), fruits and milk (half creamed ie blue capsule) or yaourt (no sugar in). No eggs or bacon...
- Note différent vegetables or fruits during each day: minimum five and if possible more.
- Don't go to "fastfood" or "sandwicheries", more than one time by week (only if it is for "your pleasure" but if possible never).
- Don't eat or drink sugars or "croissanteries" between meals (or in the evening). Tea without sugar is very good.
- Don't drink more than one wine glass or beer during main collation (water is better).
- And the most important (perhaps the "sinister secret"): practise, 30 minutes by day, fast walking in the street (double time by bicycle). For a parisian, it is easy to stop one ou two metro station before destination. If air pollution is advised, report cumulated time after the end of alarm.

If you do that, you will easily loose 0,5 kg, perhaps 1 kg, during the first month.
For the other(s) month(s), ask to a professionnal your "ideal weigh" (and body mass index) before to continue.

And if you are not convinced, read about the "syndrome de la bedaine",(paunch syndrome in english?)

Telematin this morning:

http://telematin.france2.fr/index-fr.php?page=article-semaine&id_article=7752

[Annette]

The French cantine is not always so great as it is made out to sound here. In our cantine the lunch was about five euros, and they charged one euro for an apple. The vegetables were always cooked for too long so as to minimize any trace of flavour/colour/vitamins, and were then thoroughly salted. Most of my colleagues and fellow students chose to eat fries. I've never lived in a country where fries are such an integral part of the staple food. However, snacking is seen upon as something shameful - chocolates are to be consumed in hiding...

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

Spot on, Peter Athey. The French are gourmets. The rest are gourmands. If ever you have seen the look on the face of the French mother as she and her husband and children are served breakfst in a b & b in Ireland, you will know exactly what I mean.
On the huge plates will be a variety of the following: sausages, bacon, lamb chop, eggs, baked beans, mushrooms, toasted and fresh bread, butter, marmelade and jam. This has been preceded by what Madame assumed was breakfast: cornflakes, milk and sugar.
In County Mayo*** we were served marvellous oxtail soup, then an excellent steak with vegetables and a bottle of Nuits St George. The waitress then put a huge teapot and two cups and saucers on the table.
"We didn't order tea" I said.
"It comes with your meal. It's included on the menu, sir. No extra charge."
*** A writer in Ireland saw two American women and two children come in to the breakfsst room, and asked the waitress where they were.
"We arrived in the dark and came here by taxi."
"You're in County Mayo." she said.
"Mayo," said one, "this must be the place where they make the mayonnaise."

[richard jones]

Yep that's what we want. Virtual cherry strudel. In the name of all the bloggers here I sign up for this and if anybody doesn't like it my extended family will devour it ravenously.
None of us are fat BTW, although I at 1'85 and shrinking and weighing in at 93 kilos could probably best loose 5 or so.

[HUuan]

Talking food for those in Paris who want a real experience in food, i advise you to go to the "Le grand fooding d'été 2008" on the Esplanade of the BNF.

It's sunday 22 june from 12h to 16h and it's only 5€ the entrance (which goes to Action Contre la Faim) and you can tast, different things created by some grands chefs.

[Daisy]

The french may be thinner but why are they all still so miserable?

[azloon]

[Did your Serbian wife make cherry strudel?] QWERTY

no, but we WERE the only folks on our block that had mostacholli with our Thanksgiving turkey. :) in fact, we had mostaocholli with everything. and before i voluntarily surrendered my drinking license, we slammed back a lot of slivovitz. nasty stuff with a strong scent of cleaning solvent.

the old men at the serbian orthodox church where our three children were baptised used to drink 'slivo' at the bar in the basement of the church during the worship service while their woman and children upstairs prayed for some semblance of sobriety in their husbands by the time of the final blessing.

btw, that bar was one of the ways i knew i 'wasn't in kansas anymore' when i married this woman: a bar/saloon in the basement of a church which was open for business during the Mass? not where i grew up.

Valentin -

your mention of being half-serb and half-sicilian got me thinking about my own grandson who is a quarter serb and a quarter southern italian owing to my son's marriage to a woman whose family is from Bari. that would give this wonderful child a blood line distressingly similar to yours. should i be worried?

:))

[qwerty]

Thanks for fore-warning about the Grand Fooding, Huuan - I always miss it.
V. good cherry strudel for Richard Jones can be found at "Le Stubli", rue Poncelet, Paris 17th (as well as linzertorte, schwartzwaldkuche, sachertorte....).
It seems Le Fumoir does great cinnamon rolls on Sunday brunch, but I haven't tried it out.
And for the anonymous English student with the weight problem: agree with François D, but I think lipids are supposed to be more or less admissible in the morning, not afterwards. Best balanced diet is probably the low IG diet (lots of veg, wholewheat cereals, and protein). Try the Velib.

[azloon]

Absence of time pressure is 'la mode de vie' that french reactionaries (who used to '68 revolutionaries) may be defending when they take to the streets.so these events could be viewed as food riots.(me above)

[The recent student protests, he says, made him (Denis Hennequen of McDo's France)] recall the unrest that roiled France in May 1968, when he watched the demonstrations as a 10-year-old from the window of his parents' apartment. "What bothers me is that what they are doing today, in a sense, is protesting in favor of the establishment; they are scared of the future," and hence against change.] NY Times 2006 profile of Hennequen.

[McDos meet a real need if one cannot fit into the traditional timetable, since they serve at all reasonable hours, enabling long journeys to be broken.] Christine Cavill (above)

Ms. Cavill's point tells us why McDo's France is the company's most profitable non-u.s. subsidiary. Do they serve tasty, healthy food? it's ok, and it won't kill you. but proper eating, for some french purists (is there any other kind?) is to have a grand variety of specialized foods three times a day, for your life's entirety. McDo's doesn't fit into this equation.

I took the niece of french friends and her husband to dinner in los angeles several years ago where they both worked as southern california reps for a french vintner. i met them at their apartment which they had been living in for two years. the apartment had no furniture, other than some paper crates they must have found at the supermarche, and a couple of floor lamps with mattresses on the bedroom floor.

at dinner, at a french restaurant, all this young couple could talk about was how terrible american food was, and how happy they'd be to get back to france (at that dinner, as i recall, we ordered 'food' which as far as i know resulted in no food-borne illness).

The french have their own peculiar priorties as we read incessently on this blog.

in the case of the young couple, it's food first, then furniture.

[isobel]

"in the case of the young couple, it's food first, then furniture".
Azloon
Actually that's something I've noticed as well - in the French flats I've been in in Paris, the look is fairly spartan (compared to the UK), even though you get articles in magazines about the "look cosy".In Paris in particular physical comfort is not something that is well catered for - in cafes and restaurants you are expected to eat/drink jammed up against the table next to you, presumably to maximise profits for the owner (after he's paid out for all the social charges).

[dot king]

"even though you get articles in magazines about the "look cosy".In Paris in particular physical comfort is not something that is well catered for" (Isobel)

I think le chic français doesn't run to interior design or comfort.
In my time in an estate agency I visited lots of houses, saw identical wallpapers to those I used to leaf through as a child in my (painter & decorator) dad's sample-books. (And you can still get them at your local brico-store.)
I've seen a proud French man slap his hand firmly on a brown-and-gold paisley-papered wall and say "this paper hasn't moved for 25 years".
Bathrooms where you needed to be an olympic standard high-jumper to get over the lip of the bathtub; brown, brown and more brown, dark-stained natural wood, yellow frosted panes of glass. La claaaasse, quoi.

Recently a local firm, when asked for advice, didn't hesitate one second before recommending that my "pûr 18ème" fireplace be demolished to make way for "un insert encastré" (on mettra des briques!).
When I saw the film "Le Bonheur est dans le Pré" (not the best cinoche, but they made it round here, so a "must-see") it made me laugh out loud (alone I might add, in a crowded cinema) as Michel Serrault and Eddy Mitchell made their way down here and at each stop along the way the wallpaper in the hôtel bedrooms became more patterned, more intrusive, more garish. I still don't know whether the producers did this on purpose, and I haven't yet found another French person who understands what I mean "La tapisserie? Non, je n'ai rien remarqué de particulier" :)
The restaurant where one of the scenes was filmed was repapered (from a plain interior crépi) to something yellow with red cherries on it - the hôtel/resto owners left it like that for ages after, until they went broke in fact! :)

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot,

Two reasons for this "advice" :
- they wanted to sell their product, i.e the "insert encastré" and the associated masonry work
- in terms of thermal efficiency, an insert is much better than an open fireplace "à l'ancienne" and may be even more so if the latter dates back to the 18.th century :))

"Le bonheur est dans le pré" - it is a funny film, with gentle French self irony (including about our "syndicalistes") - may be the various "tapisseries" were included on purpose too.

[isobel]

In your previous incarnation as an estate agent Dot, you must have had to take photos for the sales particulars for the houses you were selling.The ones in Paris used to make me laugh - they seem to have changed recently though - in the past the seller had no problem in trying to sell his flat with a photo of his living room with socks drying in front of the fire or dishes piled up in the sink. It didn't seem to occur to people that they might stand a better chance of selling the property if it was well presented. In a way it was refreshing to see , rather than the bland way in which people in the UK now feel they have to do up their house to sell it.
Btw the food in France is great and the fruit and vegetables are much much better than the UK.

[Stephen]

All good contributions. I am a European living in the US for 12 years and the reasons for US obesity are many. And most of them rather disturbing. They include "food as fuel" mentality, massive ignorance of the industrialization of the food supply chain and the salt/sweeteners that crop up in everything, huge marketing pressure to eat cheap/non-nutritious foods by focusing on quantity, large acceptance of ultra-sedentary lifestyle, believing that there is a "magic bullet" out there that will absolve all (slavish adherence to diet fads), focus on ingredients rather than a holistic approach (anything with "Diet" and no sugar is good) and so on.
On a more positive note, food markets and farmers markets are cropping up everywhere. Things are changing, but only among the few people who have a decent education and are aware that America can actually learn from other countries and cultures.

[dot king]

"in terms of thermal efficiency, an insert is much better than an open fireplace "à l'ancienne" and may be even more so if the latter dates back to the 18.th century"
Daniel

I knew it, you have no, soul!

BTW it's a wood-burning stove in a fireplace - the mantel is C18 - in addition to selling me the product, the masonry, and charging the earth for main d'oeuvre, they probably thought they'd get a good price for the "scrap" mantelpiece! :)

PS when you have a nice fireplace like that, you put on an extra sweater, sod the insert :) My house is nice and cosy anyway.

[V]

"that would give this wonderful child a blood line distressingly similar to yours. should i be worried?"

...about him having the potential of a French quant? :) Worry you should! He'll beat you up at chess like you'll want you'd never learnt that game!

:))

[Lily]

I have known ‘catering’ at French public and private schools at different times and places… - and have always been amazed at the emphasis that had been put on everything surrounding food intake, from hypermarket catering at lunch time, to a prize-winning school restaurant, towards an excellent school restaurant managed and run by a parent’s association on the public school’s premises but used by both public and private schools towards a deal with a neighbouring old people’s home where children go to have their lunch…

France is permeated by an appreciation for good, varied and well-presented food. Is it a coincidence that my 7-year-old had to learn all vegetables in English as well as words like spoon, knife, fork and glass, including where to put them around the plate? In ‘Sciences’ he had to create a well-balanced meal – and refused to include vegetables ;), while my 9-year-old studied the digestive system in great detail? – all within one week!

A real experience has been the hysteria surrounding the morning ‘goûter’ at school: When we had our first contact with a French Ecole Maternelle (public), children were offered a ‘goûter collectif’ – which amounts to: the same snack for everyone. Mothers took turns to prepare it. There was a list, and we alternated between fruits/veggies, dairies and bread. I believe that we followed this scheme for two years, until there were new orders: Dairies and bread got banned and were replaced by a fruit-and-vegetables-only policy. The kids had lots of bananas and veggies with dips. For birthday parties mothers were allowed and expected to bring a home-made cake.

We moved and we had one child at the Ecole Primaire and another at the Ecole Maternelle. I was curious to find out about their approach to a healthy snack. That year the ‘no-goûter’ policy was on. At the Ecole Maternelle*, the kids were allowed to have a glass of fruit juice that mothers brought, taking turns; at the Ecole Primaire the kids had nothing, meaning that it became totally unacceptable for a child to have a snack. I asked whether kids were allowed or expected to bring something on their birthdays and was told that a cake would be okay but NO home-made one. It had to be one with a sell-by date stamped on it. :o ! –
As the months went by, the rules softened and some had a snack anyway – but ‘home-made’ remained banned.

Another move later, the two are at the small private school in the village where there isn’t any goûter policy and home-made bakery is always welcome.

* That was also the school where teachers staged a chemical/biological disaster incident (attack or accident): Windows and doors were tape-sealed and children had to remain in the hallway for an entire morning.

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot,

Of course, I know that you knew!

We had also a "cheminée" in our house in SE France. It worked quite well, but it was too small inside to accommodate a standard insert. Therefore, we continued to use it as it was. The consumption was about 10 steres a winter, but we used electric heating as well.

Three or four years ago, a stere of oak wood cost 30 € (there is plenty of oak wood in the region - rather small Mediterranean oaks), including delivery in 50 cm pieces which I split with my big axe and some "huile de coude" ... It is much more entertaining (at least for me) to split wood than to fill in Sécurité Sociale papers or tax forms!

[dot king]

"Three or four years ago, a stere of oak wood cost 30 €" Daniel

It's gone up then. I pay €120 for two m3, but cut into 30-40cm lengths and ready to burn (they also stack it for me - and it has to be wheelbarrowed through the house - I just supervise:) ). However since I had my roof overhauled in 2006 and the insulation up there was doubled (they left the old Rockwool down and rolled a new lot on top of it, about thigh-deep up there now) I've gained 3 - 4°C I'd say, if not more and hardly use any additional heating, just the wood-burner.

[Don]

It is a bit premature to suggest that France has some special means that they used to curb childhood obesity. Childhood obesity has apparently reached a plateau in the U.S. as well.

http://www.iht.com/bin/printfriendly.php?id=13284200

[qwerty]

To get back on this subject, in Libé this morning:

Toute société humaine s’organise autour de la collecte de nourriture et du partage de ses ressources.

Les Français sont obsédés par le désir de bien manger ?

Comme dans tous les pays développés, mais à leur façon, et c’est ce qui les protège. Prenons le cas des Américains : quand on leur demande ce que signifie pour eux «bien manger», ils répondent nutriments (et pas aliments) et énumèrent hydrates de carbures, lipides, etc. Les Français, eux, parlent des produits (qualité et goût), convivialité (sous certaines conditions de temps, d’espace et de sociabilité), et s’inquiètent de la pollution. Voilà deux façons de concevoir l’alimentation totalement à l’opposé. En France, il existe une façon de manger qui va de soi. Même si elle est aujourd’hui malmenée.

Sur quoi repose cette façon de manger «qui va de soi» ?

Bien que nous ayons l’un des taux de travail féminin à l’extérieur du foyer parmi les plus élevés, les horaires de repas en France restent d’une très grande stabilité, ce qui n’est pas du tout le cas dans les pays anglo-saxons par exemple. Les Français passent à table à heure fixe, ils sautent peu de repas. C’est important. En France, manger, partager la même table, est une activité sociale structurante. Certes, le temps consacré à la préparation des repas chute partout et également en France. Mais le temps consacré au repas lui-même reste stable : 96 minutes sur une journée, contre 40 à 50 minutes en moyenne ailleurs. En France, on a tendance à «faire à manger» en semaine et à «faire la cuisine» les week-ends. Cuisiner est même devenu une activité de loisirs : regardez le nombre de livres de recettes et de magazines publiés. Le PNNS [programme national nutrition santé, ndlr] se vante de jouer son rôle. Il reste que les Français gardent de bons réflexes.

(1) Avec Estelle Masson, Manger: Français, Européens et Américains face à l’alimentation. Ed.Odile Jacob.

[Ludovic Windsor]

Great post and interesting reactions.

For what I can experience, British kids are not really taught how to:

- drink water, as they're accustomed to Ribena and other juice drinks

- eat real fruits: parents often peel them to make them more palatable but this has the perverse effect of reducing the willingness to eat raw fruits when no one is around to peel'em

- sit down dinners: it's often that in the week days, kids meals are so early (5:30-6:00) that the only meal they'll eat with parents is the breakfast and lunches in the week-end. As a result they're not used to behave and can be such a pain in restaurants that most parents just don't dine out with kids, unless in special "kids friendly" restaurants, often a gastronomic war-zones with food geared towards keeping little terrors quiet (chips and something else, then ice cream).

- new tastes: UK kids are not used to try new food and parents have preconceptions on what they will like (kids don't like fish, right?) As a result, their "food spectrum" is very reduced.