How not to end an affair, Paris-style.

Here is some advice to any man contemplating a love affair with a Parisian writer or artist: Don't.

You may find yourself held up to public ridicule and crucified in the name of art. It happened a couple of years ago to a banker who enjoyed a liaison with Christine Angot, a popular writer. She demolished him by recounting every gory detail of his performance in a book that became a best-seller. The unfortunate financier was not named, but everyone in his milieu knew who it was.

Now, Sophie Calle, a successful photographer and "installation artist", has gone one better by making a spectacular fool of a lover who dumped her with a callous, convoluted  e-mail. It ended with a breezy, "prenez soin de vous". This comes from the English "take care of yourself" and sounds odd in French and even colder with the distant "vous" rather than intimate "tu".

To sooth her pain and exact revenge, Calle, 54, took the pompous "mail de rupture" to 107 women in fields ranging from marriage counselling and anthropology to the police and the state intelligence service. She filmed and photographed their reactions and turned their funny and vitriolic verdicts into a show that became France's entry to the Venice Biennale of contemporary art last year. An expanded version has just opened to acclaim in the old reading room room of the National Library in Paris.

The experts include celebrities, such as Jeanne Moreau, the actress, Leila Shaheed, the Palestinian ambassador, and a bevy of performers and writers, including Christine Angot of course. Most at the time did not know the identity of "G", the apparently married lover, says Calle. But of course everyone in the intello-artsy world knows that he is a certain writer. He dedicated a new novel to Calle on the day that he broke up with her. Angot's contribution says: "The chorus that you have created around this letter is the chorus of death." Not every commentary is so serious. On one video screen, a (female) parrot eats a print-out of the e-mail.

When you enter the magnificent vaulted chamber and see a big projected video of a woman firing a sniper's rifle that you are in for an uncomfortable time.

It's not surprising that almost all the crowd flowing through the aisles of video screens, photographs and texts are women. You see them nodding and smiling in sisterly communion over the cowardice of men.

Each expert interprets the e-mail in the context of her trade. Caroline Mécary, a lawyer, nails the lover as an "ego-centric narcissist" who deserved to be prosecuted in the courts for "fraud and passing off false merchandise".

A countess who teaches etiquette alludes to the way that the lover explains his spiritual need to see other women. "A man of the world would never have written such twaddle," she says. "He would never have mentioned his previous liaisons, nor those to come, in order not to wound his interlocutor."

Christiane Cellier, an executive recruiting specialist, concludes that the lover "seeks at the same time to explain himself, to excuse himself, to avoid reproach and shift responsibility onto others."

The criminologist judges the lover to be "an authentic manipulator, perverse, psychologically dangerous and/or a famous writer. To be avoided at all costs."

Explaining her show, Calle said "this letter became a sort of coat-hanger onto which women were able to hang their own break-ups. It will be the same thing for visitors to the show."

The comments in the large visitors' book make for chilling reading if you are a man. The media have already picked up on one entry which Calle may not have bargained for. It is addressed to the artist herself: "In the register of the games of love and chance, be aware that I am living a beautiful amour with one of your former loves. Thank you for breaking up."

It sounds even better in French: Dans le registre des jeux de l'amour et du hasard, sachez que je vis un bel amour avec un de vos anciens amours. Merci d'avoir rompu.

Here's Calle explaining her show in English:

You can find the the whole e-mail from "G" on this: http://www.commentcestquonment.org/index.php?page=art

Comments

[Don]

French women share this tendency with their sisters across the Atlantic.

In the States it seems that the desire for revenge after a breakup lies much more often with the woman than the man. This expresses itself in many ways, including published books, TV talk shows where the woman bad mouths the man etc. Has anyone else noticed this lopsided desire for revenge? Why are women more intent on revenge (if they are)?

In France, the very night of the Presidential election (2007) Segolene Royal goes on the radio to announce she is throwing out Holland. Holland stays silent.

Cecilia Sarkozy is interviewed for a book where she says her former husband is incapable of loving anyone, not even the son they had together. This must have been very hurtful and embarassing for their 10 year old son. Sarkozy stays silent.

Does anyone see a lopsided desire for revenge? If so, why is this?

[Mary Fernandez]

Breaking up American style is much worse. There's Lorena Bobbit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorena_Bobbitt

Tricia Walsh Smith ("NY Socialite")just had six minute video trashing her husband on Youtube. (It's been removed by user after 2 million hits.)

Then there was that woman in Texas who ran over her Dentist husband (twice) with an SUV after discovering him having an affair. She said it was an accident.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/1964624/detail.html

Texas Govenor Ann Richards later remarked, "The price of gas is getting so high, women who want to run over their husbands have to carpool."

Still, this should be a lesson for all you guys out there...

[qwerty]

Tout est dans le style...
One lettre de rupture I like is:
"les mots restent, moi pas" (surgical and swift, if not painless).

Revenge in writing is "jouissif" (not reserved for women, BTW) and if it's a "roman à clef" even better... (cf. Justine Lévy, "Rien de grave").

Always "write out of vengeance [but] do so nicely", and don't get caught libeling, as I believe Ann Lamott says in "Bird by Bird".

A lawyer who used to work for one of the 2 best Parisian lawfirms (I worked for the other) turned her affair with a partner at said law firm into a rather sleazy (S&M) erotic novel... Oh God, I've suddenly realised who that might be...Nooo... X., you must be kidding!!!

Just you wait, YZA...

[rocket]

"You see them nodding and smiling in sisterly communion over the cowardice of men."

Yeh! Right! Most of the time these are illicit relationships where the man is married and often the woman not. The woman knows this before she starts "bonking" the man yet she somehow believes he is going to leave his wife for her.(or should I say leave the comfortable cocoon) Hah! Fat chance! Also lest we forget the cost and mess of divorcing today certainly in the USA. So the man always becomes the coward in the eyes of the woman even though the women knowingly participated in this secret tryst bestowing womanly charms on our poor married "joe" that his wife has long since abandonned performing. Since us men are not at "leur hauteur" Some women, single, I may add put the bar so high that not even superman could reach it. Who needs this foolishness and games!

I've known plenty of women who told me (when I was single) they would sit by the telephone waiting for their illicit lover to call so they could spend time together, but it just doesn't happen that way. it's usually a wham bam thank you mam kind of deal and then the woman can't understand. Enough victimization please!

(In defense of women) Any man who would promise to leave his wife because the poor baby is sooo unhappy should have his head examined if he doesn't follow through.

When the breakup comes as it inevitably does, then the hangups start and if you are lucky you'll even get a knock on the door.

So I don't subscribe to the poor jilted woman theory. It's a two way street "en toute connaissance de cause".

[Edward Johns]

I have the solution to all such problems !
Make Adultery and fornication sins, stone to death the worst offenders!

[Jorg Andersen]

In my experience, women are very good at tearing miscreant men to pieces after the affair -- and not just in public. It's not just about the economic rapport de force that gives men more power. There is something in the feminine psyche that knows how to inflict pain long after the event. As they say in French la vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid... or something like that.

[john o'doe]

I didn't see this in 'Voici' so it can't be true.
Call me a philistine if you like but this just looks like an awful lot of pretentious waffle from a tight circle of self-regarding Parisian intellectuals who have nothing better to do with their time.
Anyone who cites Lacan to explain why they got dumped needs their head examining.

[dot king]

L'homme qui a écrit ces mots, ce courriel l'a fait en imaginant ses larmes (à elle).
Mais il imagine que ses larmes (à elle) seraient le résultat de sa peine (à lui).

Il se fait victime de son propre amour et non pas de son amour propre.

Il ment en se mentant.
Et il se ment en mentant.

Pauvr'type, va!

[John Gregory Flinn]

Perhaps Nietsche may be of help to DON.
I think he (not DON) is attributed with - "Man may be evil, but Woman is base"!
And the old favourite - "Hell hath no fury like the woman scorned"!

[Actually, it was William Congreve, the Restoration playwright, who wrote that line in his 1697 play called "The Mourning Bride". The complete quote is: "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned." CB]

[Joan Arles]

Good for Sophie Calle. A revenge exhibition is better than the kiss-and-tell revenge book, which seems to have become a fashion in France and the USA lately.

I 'd rather you didn't quote my name on this comment Charles but in my experience if you choose to end a relationship and live to fight another day ( most important as regards your friends, future lovers etc ) then its best to ensure the lady ends it by demonstrating all those traits she dislikes. It takes time but once she has decided you have reached your sell by date then you can gracefully leave the stage to others.
Afterwards always praise her and, with use of onion etc, weep occasionally at the mention of her name. A passionate and emotionally careing response ensures a healthy future sex life through a caring reputation!
The art of disposing of one before moving onto another is a neglected skill perhaps more important than acquiring the asset in the first place.

[azloon]

it's all so unbecoming.

and enough to require a 'seal of good housekeeping' for woman wanting an affair so that men can become involved without fear of public humiliation.

i believe that's the least we can ask for.

:)

[azloon]

Mary F.

wasn't lorena bobbit about infidelity, not about simply employing one the 'fifty ways to leave your lover?"

"Just slip out the back, jack
Make a new plan, stan
You dont need to be coy, roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, gus
You dont need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, lee
And get yourself free."

btw, this mention of lorena bobbitt and all the recent talk of penis theft in africa is enough to make a guy shrivel up and forget the whole thing.

[Fernandez]

Azloon -

All three of the ones I mentioned, were about wives who took revenge on unfaithful husbands. It reminds me of the Cell Block Tango song by the Merry Murderesses of Death Row in the musical 'Chicago'(slightly modified to make sense without the chorus):

He had it coming
He had it coming
He only had himself to blame
He took a flower
In its prime
And then he used it
And he abused it
If you'd have been there
If you'd have seen it
I betcha you would
Have done the same!

He had it coming
He had it coming
All along
I didn't do it
But if I'd done it
How could you tell me
That I was wrong?
It was a murder
But not a crime!
If you'd have been there
If you'd have seen it
I betcha you would have done the same!
_________________________

Anonymous --

"I'd rather you didn't quote my name on this comment Charles but in my experience ... its best to ensure the lady ends it by demonstrating all those traits she dislikes. It takes time but once she has decided you have reached your sell by date then you can gracefully leave the stage to others. Afterwards always praise her and, with use of onion etc, weep occasionally at the mention of her name. A passionate and emotionally careing response ensures a healthy future sex life through a caring reputation!"

NICOLAS?!!!

[Chris]

Amazing how the sisterhood bands together to sympathise with this poor woman... What about the wife? This so called 'artist' deserves all she got - just grow up - you enter into a marriage breaking / family wrecking affair and want us to feel sorry when the man comes to his senses. Strange - when things like this happen women are always portrayed as the victim - when it is men on the receiving end they are referred to as 'empowered'...

[razatork]

Dumb female self-indulging victimizing crap, but after grey's anatomy and desperate housewives, nothing really surprising.

Someone might ask why she went out with a married man in the first place, not that there is anything shocking but hell, of course he dumped her and stayed with his wife, what was she expecting ??

A mashup of the bonfire of the vanities and a victimist gorefest. Indeed, women love that.

[Daniel Strohl]

Mary,

"women who want to run over their husbands have to carpool."

LOL!

This lady governor has wit. If I were a Texan elector, I would have voted for her rather than for a bragging-around cow-boy :))

"NICOLAS?!!!"

LOL - NICOLAS gave an interview this evening in the Elysée to a pool of 5 prominent TV journalists. It was interesting.

[azloon]

[This lady governor has wit. If I were a Texan elector, I would have voted for her rather than for a bragging-around cow-boy :))]

Daniel, this female governor was (she died recently) Ann Richards who was indeed riotously funny.

she once said of George Bush the Elder, "He was born with a silver foot in his mouth."

[Romain]

"Hell hath no fury like the woman scorned"!

Another example but this time, between mother and son :

http://www.bakchich.info/breve643.html

[rocket]

Daniel

"This lady governor has wit. If I were a Texan elector, I would have voted for her rather than for a bragging-around cow-boy :))"

She's dead now!

[smokeball]

This self-pitying nonsense is why so many men have turned to alternatives, sick of the self-aggrandisement of grasping western women.

Nowadays, thankfully, the world is more open. A man can choose a girl from places like Thailand, Ukraine or Russia, where a more traditional culture of femininity has not been similarly corroded. These women respect their man and understand how to please him, and in return he is motivated to honour and protect her.

Every time one of these hate-filled harpies reveals herself, not just her own victim but many other men learn the obvious lesson: keep away, leave them to their own misery, there is a better world out there!

[Purbeck Me]

Would the French have e.com relationships, Charles?

How can a man be content having a mind thing with a woman,and use her as his muse for several years, and then feel that mind things and the auto suggestiveness of content is not a betrayal of his marriage vows?
Men are bored all the time, they sit in their cars in queues and flirt, they sit at their desks and daydream. BUT they are the ones who scream ground rules-- why because they are frightened of their wives as they were frightened by the power of their mothers!!

A bit like the red longlegged scissor man, who sneaks around cutting it off (at night, but what?)

So - 'There was a damned successful poet ,there was a woman like the sun ,even tho they didn't know it, they didn't know their time was done.'
A two year E. Com relationship with an arrogant delightful grumbling insecure top male,soon to be retired, is a wonderful enlightening experience, and rather akin to chess, cryptic crossword- ground rules were obeyed- but who is the winner?-- Prenez soin de vous, dear A.

[Maggie]

"Someone might ask why she went out with a married man in the first place.... but hell, of course he dumped her and stayed with his wife, what was she expecting ?? " (Razatork)

"What about the wife? This so called 'artist' deserves all she got - just grow up - you enter into a marriage breaking / family wrecking affair and want us to feel sorry when the man comes to his senses" (Chris)

Razatork and Chris -- I don't think this guy was married. I haven't seen any mention of him having a wife. In his e-mail he talks about the 'other three" and his inability to stop seeing them.

The thing she refused to accept was being the fourth one (co-girlfriend, that is), and he tells her he has given up trying to keep the bargain, and has gone back to seeing "the others".

[dot king]

"Amazing how the sisterhood bands together to sympathise with this poor woman... What about the wife?"
(Chris)
Firstly, the artist only asked women for a reaction, and they responded on request, not spontaneously.
Secondly, I might need to reread the offending e-mail again, but I don't think there was anything to suggest he was married, certainly that he had 3 other mistresses, but no mention of a wife that I recall.
Busy man apparently.
France's (almost) entire male population is made up of serial adulterers anyway - it's a long-standing historical tradition. : )

[christopher muir]

Somebody must be making money out of this tawdry episode.
Let's hope that any booty is passed on to a worthy charity. And doesn't the "mysterious" man own copyright as far as the email is concerned? He, also, should be financially compensated.

[Maggie]

"And doesn't the "mysterious" man own copyright as far as the email is concerned? He, also, should be financially compensated." (Christopher M)

In her exhibition, the lady originally referred to her ex-lover as "X", and to the title of his book as "ecriture". At his request, she changed the "X" back to his initial, and "ecriture" back to the initials of the book.

(This information is all in the link just below the you-tube box)

"Le jour où j'ai reçu cette lettre de rupture par mail, son auteur a publié un livre. Le livre m'était dédié, il m'a quittée le jour de sa sortie. Dans son mail, l'auteur en mentionnait le titre et il signait de son prénom. Seules sept femmes savaient qui il était, j'ai remplacé le prénom par X et le titre du livre par le mot "écriture". Le projet achevé, il en a pris connaissance et, à sa demande, je lui ai restitué les initiales de son prénom et de son livre". (1)

[dot king]

"Let's hope that any booty is passed on to a worthy charity. And doesn't the "mysterious" man own copyright as far as the email is concerned? He, also, should be financially compensated."
(Christopher Muir)

Yes, it occured to me that there might be a question of royalties for the author, but he would have to admit to having written it, so I let it pass.
But Christopher, you can't have him have financial compensation AND "booty passed on to a worthy charity". (Glad I proof-read that - I'd typed "botty" instead of "booty" - "any botty passed on to a worthy charity" - would have undermined my very serious argument : ))

Still, could have been worse - I could have typed "totty" (that will probably only be understood by British bloggers, sorry . . .)

[christopher muir]

Dot King -

You're quite correct: carelessness on my part. Let's give Monsieur X 25% after a 75% distribution to charity...

[dot king]

"Dot King -

You're quite correct: carelessness on my part. Let's give Monsieur X 25% after a 75% distribution to charity..."

christopher muir

Thanks to Maggie's very careful reading of the artist's link, I now see that Monsieur quite relished the fact of being so "celebrated" by his ex's exhibition, so no, I don't think he deserves anything other than the "glory" and the publicity for his book. (and possibly a well-aimed bruise) ;0

What struck me on reading his e-mail, was the manipulation he was (possibly unconsciously - after all it is in their genes) practising. He was dumping her, by what amounts to leaving a note, yet he was implying that he was the victim because he would miss her, oh so much, that the other three weren't her, but he couldn't not see them - and she was so important to him, oh so important. That's why, in another link I said he was writing and imagining her tears, but the tears she would be crying in his imagination, would not be tears for herself, but for him.

I mean, WOT A PLONKER!
Jeez!

[Arkarter]

Okay, here's a scenario. It's late 2008. I'm a at a cocktail party. I am a 55 year old man. I am introduced by a friend to a woman of similar age. I am told her name is Sophie Calle.

The first question I ask myself is 'what floor are we on?' Why? Because if I can't make it to the door fast enough, I'm diving out the window.

Enjoy your self-righteous life Sophie. Alone.

[azloon]

Mary F.

cutting off penises, writing scathing books/memoirs, public performance art ??

what's with all this female melodrama??

everyone knows most men are just talking dogs.

so you were expecting something different?

i notice that a french singer did a cover of the paul simon classic: "30 manieres de quitter une fille" by Michel Delpech. interesting that the translator turned it into a 'guy leaves girl' story which the original doesn't -- as though a guy has never been on the receiving end of one of these deals.

[qwerty]

Azloon: statistically, it's the woman who leaves the man. The man arranges to get left. He doesn't take the initiative of the break-up. Men are actually perfectly happy in their so-so relationship, as long as they can find compensation elsewhere.

[qwerty]

Now waidamminit!
I'm right now reviewing the NY Times review of Reza's book on Sarkozy (Dawn Dusk & Night) and it says that the book is dedicated to a certain "G" who inspired it! Is this the same G as Sophie Calle's???
The plot thickens...
Quelle ronde...

[dot king]

Azloon, I didn't know about the Michel Delpech cover version of "fifty ways", but surely both versions are about "guy leaves girl"? All the names in Paul Simon's version are masculine: jack, stan, roy, gus, lee

Of course in the original it could be a "guy leaves guy" story - do the French cover lyrics allow for this possibility?

Once one person in a couple wants out, then that couple is dead, no doubt about that, the best thing is to accept it ASAP, get through it and get on.
Whilst I would never do what Sophie Calle did, I think she did it intelligently, the bloke was such a faux-cul to write such drivel, he deserved a come-uppance.

'Tain't that serious as topics go - and he seems to have rather enjoyed the boost to his ego-prowess as a seductor.
If I'm ever at a cocktail party (ARKARTER) and a man tells me proudly that he's the one who got a whole art exhibition about him, well, I would think WOW! It's not every day you get to meet a total klutz of THIS calibre!
Then I would ENJOY myself ;}

[dot king]

QWERTY "Men are actually perfectly happy in their so-so relationship, as long as they can find compensation elsewhere".

Yup, agree with this, one to wash the socks, the other to peel off the stockings.
wife vs mistress -

BUT watch out:
"one man's wife is another man's mistress" to paraphrase an epithet

"Of course in the original it could be a "guy leaves guy" story - do the French cover lyrics allow for this possibility?"
(ME)
I'll just answer myself a minute here: Of course not you stupid woman!
The word "lover" in English is not gender-specific, whereas in French it would need to be expressed one way or the other.
Quelle gourde, alors!

[azloon]

[QWERTY "Men are actually perfectly happy in their so-so relationship, as long as they can find compensation elsewhere".]

yeah, so what's your point?

:)

[qwerty]

Hang on, Azloon - I'm currently far more fascinated by identifying "G" (TIC*).

I suspect, and maybe Charles has inside info on this, that G is the author/journalist previously known as the "Lion de l'Atlas" on account of a mistress he had in the 90s...very oblique, abstruse clue, I know, can't say more... maybe Charles will get it...

(*TIC: "tongue in cheek": new blog-speak invented by me, similar to "LOL". To be honest, I don't give a f* who G is)

[Blendi Progri]

There`s a tendency nowadays to hang the private life (and all the idiosyncrasies that come with it) in public.It can, mainly, described in two parts:

A. Sensationalising.
Everything, (that happens to You) has to be bigger, better, smarter, greater, or Worse, deeper, more painful (than of others) more dangerous and close to death.
Nothing can be said without being more Sensational or Exaggerating it. From the news announcers (that even when reporting a lost cat- try to empathise, furrow and gravely report a missing feline) to the housewives interviewed at their front door.

We see this often, so much so that it has little to no effect anymore. Daily – one Z-list (even A list ones) celeb to another pour onto our breakfast tables their Troubles, real or perceived.

They must be sensational. Like the lady`s in question, as if she`s is the only one to have separated. Big deal, no one got harmed, people move on, Well…or they go public. Imagine if there were children involved! She should have gone Interplanetary. I guess is a sign of the times we live in, before one could count on the scorned party to trash your belongings or just spill some paint on your car, now…its The Public, By Public, In Public and from the public.

B. Publication.
Everything that happens to people with access to media ( & at times not) (from simple shopping trips, disputes with neighbours, travel, grievances, illnesses etc,) every single-little-irrelevant point is reported.
They go public on every little thing. E simple glitch in Sainsbury’s is manically reported as a conspiracy to thwart their lovely (and busy, of course) day. At the car, on the bus, on the train, on the air (oh god, better we don’t start on this, on the air) every incident happening to them (and by interpolation – to us, who should be grateful for being in the ‘sharing end’ of it) Should be reported. So they happily SHARE.

But with sharing, comes a point when people get bored. As it’s a given that not everything that happens to you (and me) is interesting, and while it might look interesting, terrific and even tragic to you, to the other party (us) it can sound boring, pedestrian and even pathetico-comic.

Will it ever stop, am afraid Not. Somewhere Anatole France says: If you have lived till 18 you have stories to last you a lifetime. So have no fear these folks will never run out of stories ( not that this can hamper them – as people of this sharing predisposition will have no probs of making them up, anyhow, if need be) neither will they give up on sharing.
Only the medium may change:
It can be a published letter, article, something on the radio, even tv an exhibitions or a message on the sky.

What happens is that people will not believe a single word you say. If you lose TRUST on people, when people think that everything you do will end up in public, they will be wary of you and you will end up alone.

As ARKARTER said it :

‘Enjoy your self-righteous life Sophie. Alone.’
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
Now to Loreta Bobbit, many folks have discussed about her. Essays, and books have been filled, analysing her deeds (deed?) and still no one knows completely, or understands fully, what possessed that good, god-fearing-woman to DO IT.

Anyhow, good of Azloon for raising the Subject; can’t say the same of Loreta, on cutting the Object.

[azloon]

[Anyhow, good of Azloon for raising the Subject; can’t say the same of Loreta, on cutting the Object.] Blendi

actually it was Mary Fernandez who 'linked' a story about Lorena (not Loreta) Bobbit, one of several links warning us (males) of what might be in store for us if we aren't careful.

i am not so sure that her deed isn't fairly easily explained. it's revenge, pure and simple.

women may express horror at her act but i am sure there was a lot of private female jubilation when it happened. Lorena made posting nasty remarks on the internet seem like child's play.

you gotta hand it to her.

oops.

[a well-wisher]

In the hospital the relatives gathered in the waiting room,
where their family member lay gravely ill. Finally, the doctor came in looking tired and somber.
'I'm afraid I'm the bearer of bad news,' he said as he surveyed the worried faces. 'The only hope left for your loved one at this time is a brain transplant. It's
an experimental procedure, very risky but it is the only hope. Insurance will cover the procedure, but you will have to pay for the brain yourselves.'
The family members sat silent as they absorbed the news. After a great length of time, someone asked, 'Well, how much does a brain cost?'
The doctor quickly responded,
'£5,000 for a male brain, and £200 for a female brain.'
The moment turned awkward. Men in the room tried not to smile, avoiding eye contact with the women,
but some actually smirked.
A man unable to control his
curiosity, blurted out the question everyone wanted to ask,'Why is the male brain so much more?' The
doctor smiled at the childish innocence and explained to the entire group, 'It's just standard pricing procedure. We have to mark down the price of the female
brains, because they've actually been used.'

[Mary Fernandez]

Azloon -

"women may express horror at her act but i am sure there was a lot of private female jubilation when it happened"

You are so smart, you must be a woman! I remember exactly where I was when I first read this story (Stanford University ER, a single paragraph, p. 38, Palo Alto Daily News [Mail?]) and all the nurses and I were laughing hysterically. The men [patients, doctors, et al.] were all horrified at these cackling broads.

Maybe all I can say is that for women horrible sexual violence is an everyday reality. One lopped-off penis for a philandering wife beater is apparently a jaw-dropping tragedy for all of MAN-kind. Now I don't what actually happened between these two Jerry Springer wannabees, and I don't condone penis chopping. Frankly, the horror of all the men hearing of this story was what was funny and not the story itself.

It is amazing that this event was so sensational compared to all the things that women have learned from early childhood to live in fear of and accept as normal.

BTW, "everyone knows most men are just talking dogs. so you were expecting something different?"

This reminds me of a story Wanda Sykes tells about living with her boyfriend. Both of them hold jobs but she finds herself coming home to a sinkful of dishes while he's on the couch eating pizza and watching TV. She's mad that he thinks she is his maid. She decides to not do the dishes and see if he notices. Two weeks of this daily standoff and she comes home to find him standing there in his underwear eating a hotdog off a toothpick over the sink. It's then that she realizes that she'll never win because this is how he lived before he met her!

[dot king]

20 bonus points and a luxury weekend in arizona if you get this one - don't all shout at once . . .

I looked up at that perfect man
his long golden hair
his fair and flawless face
his beautiful mustache
he had such grace
he had such grace

I felt his more than perfect arms
so slender yet so strong
his fine and faultless hands
the right one wore a silver ring and gave imperious commands
and gave commands

so sure he seemed
so together and complete
like no man I've ever known
I was dazzled
I was thrown by his strong persuasive style
and his sweet
self-centred smile

I looked up at the perfect man
and everything came clear
we're not what we appear
perfection is the lie
that covers up the fear
we unsuccessfuly try
to hide away

and not once did I cheat
and look down at his feet
knowing that they would be grey
and they
would be
made of
clay

[azloon]

["eating a hotdog off a toothpick over the sink"] M. Fernandez

now there's a clever tip for the 'domestically challenged' (moi). i'll put that in my recipe box.

btw, Wanda Sykes is great on 'Curb Your Enthusiasm,' which i would almost bet is something you watch. :)

-------

['You are so smart, you must be a woman!'] Mary F

Touche (regrettably, this is all too true).

though sometimes very smart and very nutso. n'est pas vrai?

---------

it's amusing to hear your take on the "Deed." in the context of centuries of sexual violence against women, the female reaction is predictable.

but let me tell you, my legs are STILL crossed.

(she must have changed her name, if she ever hoped to date again. i cringe at the thought of meeting someone for "Just Lunch" and having her introduce herself as Lorena Bobbit. the first thing i'd check would be the silverware).

:)

[azloon]

[and not once did I cheat
and look down at his feet
knowing that they would be grey
and they
would be
made of
clay]

nor did i consider cutting off his penis.

Dot, not a clue who wrote this. sounds 19th century and british.

no arizona vacation for me.

[Mary Fernandez]

Azloon -

Speaking of names, isn't there such weird symbolism in their names? 'Bobbit' and 'John Wayne'.

('To bob', v.tr., To cut short or reshape.)

Somebody should have seen this coming when their wedding was announced in the newspaper.
________

You'll be safe if you stay away from women with crazy eyes. Men always think that crazy women are wild and fun. Nope, just crazy.

That, and all your flatwear should be plastic sporks. ;-)

[azloon]

[Men always think that crazy women are wild and fun. Nope, just crazy.] Mary F.

i consider myself somewhat experienced in this area, and, all i can say is, it depends on your time horizon.

my misadventures tell me you are tempting fate if you dally longer than ten days. and it's hard not to.

so you really can't afford to take that 'first drink.'

yes, the names ARE amazingly ominous and predictive.

'spork' -- best new word in my vocabulary. it almost makes me want to shout "spork you" at someone who cuts me off (ouch!) in traffic. i think i will.

(BTW, 'crazy eyes' was wanda sykes' boyfriend in one hilarious episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm.)

:)

[Blendi Progri]

Many women chose to go public on ending their affair/ marriage. A while ago a woman in UK, sold her hubby’s BMW latest version on e-bay for £50. She stipulated that the person buying it must come Today ( 24h listing), and she really sold it for that.The judge has stipulated that they sell and share assets and divide thing sin half. So she gave her husband his £25.Another one I remember is of one who went on radio and dumped her cheating boyfriend on the Air.

Her name appears on the NET as Loretta also, (blame the BBC, that’s where I took it)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/207674.stm on some sites she is Lorena, others Loretta, etc but this isn’t the point whether an –etta, or an ena; she did e Clean Work on JWB; making sure that no one can confuse the deed that happen on that tragic night on the Bobbit family.

As For the act and its ‘complexities’ (lets call her Lori- so the good folks won’t trip on a single letter) of course her deed is easily explained- when I say ‘what possessed that good, god-fearing-woman to DO IT’ I’m joking. She wanted to cut and cut it she did. No equivoque in there. Ouch.
--------
Although the Court Trial Story was presented:
[ Virginia vs. Bobbitt
Assault, Revenge or Self-Defense: The Trial of Lorena Bobbitt ]
Go figure…

To most, She is part of a small minority of an ‘elite’ squad of Sisterhood Storm-Troopers, that took the subject of Emasculation (too literally) and unfortunately, to the very end.
-------------------------------.
I have seen her/him in two documentaries.

1) One was about hubby J.W.Bobbit. His terrifying ordeal and how a quick thinking policeman found the Object on the toilet bowl wriggling (I know it doesn’t Wriggle – just in case someone takes the ‘trouble’ to point it out- only helps to animate the story) put in a plastic bag of frozen-peas and sent it at the hospital, where it was rejoined to that wonderful specimen, called J.W.B. And what a specimen it was, what a guy, lol.
His story was tough, as tough as it gets. He had become kinda of celeb, going in every talk-show, even starring in 1-2 porn movies. Moving to Vegas, etc, and at times had trouble finding work. In a way I felt sorry for the guy, whatever he was going to do ( and he tried, a lot) he can’t better, what Lori did.

2) the other documentary was dedicated to the Penis, itself. Many cases around the world were presented, Lori’s too ( in few minutes). Few cases I recall of the Filipina woman that super-glued her cheating husband’s penis to his leg. Another in India that cut it and gave it to the cat.

In both documentaries, they were so many causes presented, that even Lori or John were contradictory on their recollection from one documentary to the other. Past rapes and abuses were mentioned; she accused him of rape and torture, physical & mental abuse, jealousy, she even claimed to have no recollection, etc etc etc.

This has became an urban legend, that, I bet, even Lori and J-Wayne, when asked, time-after-time have moved so far from the original version (and they have been asked a lot) so they now have lost track of what its true (motive-wise, I say) and what is not (continuous layers of interesting facts added, or omitted) but the main fact in undisputed, lol, she remains one of the few women (better still, humans) to see it detached from a live body, indeed she was the main player in the 1-st act.

Now to the ‘revelation‘ I didn’t know that Azloon was a woman. The suffix I saw once or twice lately (bobby fur.) wasn’t the best indication of that. It can’t be ruled out though that Rob (he, of rob furlong attachement) could be short for ROBERTA, or Az / Bob may contribute jointly, as a couple.
;)
-------------------------.

Few years back read a story on Pravda about a Rumanian Surgeon ( Urologist) who went mad on the Operating Table, and excised the patient’s penis in a single clear swoop. Then, he put it on a tray, and divided it in 3 equivalent segments ( can’t vouch for 100% precision as he didn’t have time for a ruler) then the theatre staff, jumped and overpowered him and put back the Object where it belonged, sowing it as nearly as they could. Imagine the horror of the guy when he woke up.

However, I think that if 'that' was ever to happen to any man, where better than the operating theatre, no pain, competent people who can stitch it back up the right way round, and with a chance to sue the hospital, once the plaster cast has been removed.

The plaster-cast(?), hmm, there are people who think (fantasise?) that the procedure is called amputation...

[dot king]

"Dot, not a clue who wrote this. sounds 19th century and british."
Azloon

No-sir! Late C20 and much closer to home.
Think of famous people from the musical world who split when he went off with a youg actress (OK, I know that doesn't narrow it down much, but it's a first clue) - and you might yet get that Arizona mini-break.

You have some pretty violent hairstyles in the USA, bobs and bangs . . .

[qwerty]

Dot's ditty:
I can only think of "his legs bestrid the ocean, his reared arm crested the world (...) think you there was or might be such a man as this I dreamed of?" - but that takes us back to Edwardian times...

[clare de loon]

[Now to the ‘revelation‘ I didn’t know that Azloon was a woman. The suffix I saw once or twice lately (bobby fur.) wasn’t the best indication of that. It can’t be ruled out though that Rob (he, of rob furlong attachement) could be short for ROBERTA, or Az / Bob may contribute jointly, as a couple.
;)]

Blendi, i was born male, but since i was criminally assaulted by my own 'little Lori,' i went ahead with the full-blown gender change proceedure. i figured half of it had been done for me, and little remained other than a few hormones and a cosmetic surgical touch or two in the lower region.

my only problem is that i feel like a 'man trapped in a woman's body.' i know there is vasectomy reversal proceedures. sex change reversal? where is that policeman now that i need him?

perhaps he gave it to his wife to put in the deep freeze. i hope the cat didn't eat it. :)

[dot king]

Dear Clare de Loon, you are an ideal candidate for Jean-luc Delarue's programme. I shall send in your details, trust me on this.

QWERTY, come on now womming, what C19 poet would have said she thought her man seemed "together"? Sheesh! That firmly anchors our girl in the late 1960's - early 1970's.

Another clue: think classical music, film music, BIG-TIME man, married to tiny afro-red-haired songwriter-singer; and two clues for the woman he left to go to (and in Justine Lévy style I think she got a song or two written about her "lemon-haired ladies" for one (giving it away now, pfff)) a Woody Allen "fetish" actress / Great Gatsby.
Down to only 10 bonus points now and extract the "luxury" part of the weekend. : )

[qwerty]

OK, Dot. I'll give your contact details (umm-I don't have them, I'll send a link to this blog) to Marie Colment on La Matinale at C+. She's unbeatable on the late 60s, and has a quizz every day on photos from May 68. There's always a bunch of téléspectateurs who get the right answer. They must be either incredibly cultivés, très politisés or assez vieux.
Oh - Joni Mitchell? Was she around that époque? Marianne Faithfull? Carly Simon? she did a good song on the same subject.
I'm surprised you didn't recognise William S. in my contribution.

[dot king]

"Joni Mitchell? Was she around that époque? Marianne Faithfull? Carly Simon? "

Getting warmer! Perhaps less-well-known than those three, but the husband is/was very famous as is the actress. I saw the lady in question in concert in Manchester around 1976 - 77. Tiny little woman with big red afro hairstyle, just her and a piano, mais quelle présence!

Sorry, no I didn't recognise your Shakespeare (a shameful goof) but you do say it's Edwardian. . . .

BTW Paul Simon did have some good ideas about dumping lovers:

you're kind
you're so kind
you rescued me when I was blind
and you put me on your pillow
when I was on the wall
you're kind, so kind, so kind

and you're good
you're so good
you introduced me to your neigbourhood
seems like I ain't had so many friends before
that's because you're good
you're so good

why you don't treat me like the other humans do
is just a mystery to me
it gets me agitated when I think that you
are going to love me now
indefinitely

so goodbye, goodbye
I'm going to leave you now
and here's the reason why
I like to sleep with the window open
and you keep the window closed
so goodbye, goodbye, goodbye

it's after that you - slip out the back jack etc

[azloon]

[Oh - Joni Mitchell? Was she around that époque? Marianne Faithfull? Carly Simon?] QWERTY

joni and carly were way too hip for such sappy lyrics, and their love lives don't seem to jibe with your description. marianne faithful i don't know much about, tho liked her voix.

was liberace ever married?

i went to this Jean-Luc Delarue's website to find out why i might be a candidate for his show. a few sex kittens doing funny things with their tongues, a grand theft auto preview, and pix of inviting caribbean beaches. where do i fit it in?

[Johnny Foreigner]

Yes yes yes but is it art?

It's certainly very dull and self-indulgent.

[Mary Fernandez]

Alright, since we're into music, here's one for the much abused fellas on this blog:

'I've made a small fortune and you squandered it all
You shamed me till I feel about one inch tall
But I thought I loved you and I hoped you would change
So I gritted my teeth and didn't complain.

Now you come to me with a simple goodbye
You tell me you're leaving but you won't tell me why
Now we're here at the station and you're getting on
And all I can think of is.... thank God and Greyhound you're gone

Thank God and Greyhound you're gone
I didn't know how much longer I could go on
Watching you take the respect out of me
Watching you make a total wreck out of me
That big diesel motor is a-playing my song
Thank God and Greyhound you're gone.

Thank God and Greyhound you're gone
That load on my mind got lighter when you got on
That shiny old bus is a beautiful sight
With the black smoke a-rolling up around the taillight
It may sound kind-a cruel but I've been silent too long
Thank God and Greyhound you're gone.

Thank God and Greyhound you're gone...'

:-) [Roy Clark - If you want to complaint about a cheatin' spouse, go Country.]

[qwerty]

Do you know:

Thank you for hearing me
(...)
Thank you for loving me
(...)
Thank you for seeing me
(...)
And for not leaving me
(...)
Thank you for staying with me
(...)
Thanks for silence with me
Thank you for holding me
And saying I love thee
Thanks for saying “baby”
Thank you for holding me

Thank you for hugging me
(...)

Thank you for breaking my heart
Thank you for tearing me apart

Now I’m a strong strong heart
Thank you for breaking my heart

(Sinead O'Connor)

[qwerty]

Azloon, if you're a hermaprhodite, as suggested in this blog, you'll fit in very well on Jean-Luc's program, where you can talk seriously about and win compassion for your sexual misfit problems.

The Guignols (Canal Plus) did very funny sketches about JLD, in which you saw him picking out the participants for his freak show.

[Maggie]

" I looked up at that perfect man
his long golden hair
his fair and flawless face....

and not once did I cheat
and look down at his feet
knowing that they would be grey
and they
would be
made of
clay

20 bonus points and a luxury weekend in arizona if you get this one - don't all shout at once . . . "(Dot)

Dot, would it by any chance be Dory Previn on "Mary C Brown and the Hollywood Sign" ?

I admit I didn't know it myself, but I'm quite anxious to win the prize, so checked it out with an acquaitance who's quite a song expert.

Just wondering if I could switch it for a weekend in Winnipeg rather than Arizona (or Montreal would do too).

Thanks. (quite excited about this)
(I thought Azloon would get it, but I suppose a weekend in Arizona was too ordinary to inspire him to really search.)

[dot king]

well done Maggie!!
You certainly have some very knowledgeable friends!
Unfortunately with the BIG clues I gave, I felt obliged to reduce the number of bonus points by half and I took the "luxury" out of the weekend (I think that's what put Azloon off - his underwear must be pinching him by now - must have affected his musical lobe).
Now how can I make this up to you?
what do you expect of a 10-point weekend without luxury?

Azloon, I see QWERTY has explained JLD's programme to you perfectly adequately - life's weirdos, often disguised behind big dark glasses and under strange all-encompassing wigs, come and speak publicly about their "pecadilloes". Like QWERTY (who doesn't watch, I'm sure) I only see the send-up bits. Not too long ago on "le Zapping" of "Le Grand Journal" they showed a creepy little man who "did" sole sex (see how delicate I can be when I put my mind to it - I'm in the school staffroom, that must be why - free period) which was the subject of the programme, and fantasised on a woman of his erm well, erm fantasy; on the now famous clip, the previous night, he announced, he had fantasised on la femme du Président Sarkozy. This was later found out to be untrue - the sole sex, not necessarily the fantasy; he had just shown how easy it is to get on TV. ;)

[azloon]

Qwerty --

thanx for explanation of the JLD show -- 'your' Jerry Springer, in other words. i can't bear to watch JS. it's so OTT and repulsive it makes me ashamed to be a human being. and there are enough really GOOD reasons to be ashamed. :)

sinead o'connor piece -- nice

-------

[If you want to complaint about a cheatin' spouse, go Country.] Mary F.

if you want to complain about anything or say anything for that matter, go Country.

how about favorite country lyrics, phrases?

candidates:

"if i tell you you have a beautiful body, will you hold it against me?"

"and i shaved my legs for THIS?"

"take this job and shove it"

--------

DOT --

Dory Previn is a bit obscure but certainly prominent news back then. but i couldn't tell you a single thing about her, and don't remember her from your description. your seeing her in concert must have etched a memory of her in you that the rest of us, other than the resourceful Maggie, couldn't muster.

-------

Peter --

great joke re 20 quid/jews/irish (i heard an american version of same joke last week). having grown up on the edge of a jewish/irish neighborhood on the north side of chicago, i know whereof you speak (re their humor). my great grandmother was a german jew (we think, tho not greatly discussed), and the rest of my mangy family is irish with a limey or two lurking on the periphery -- 'mutts,' in other words and a breeding ground for absurd humor, or, in my case, feeble attempts at it.

[azloon]

Maggie --

ok, Montreal it is !! call your travel agent and have him/her put it on my account. opps, i'm sorry, my card is nax :)

----

[Angot's contribution says: "The chorus that you have created around this letter is the chorus of death." ] CB

i just re-read this. is the woman kidding? the artsy-fartsy crowd in paris actually thinks and speaks like this? and have the nerve/chutzpah, and the audience, to display this stuff publicly?

if they were only amusing themselves and each other, i suppose it wouldn't matter much. but they probably have their fingers in public policy as well. which would explain a lot of what we read on this blog.

[Maggie]

"Unfortunately with the BIG clues I gave, I felt obliged to reduce the number of bonus points by half and I took the "luxury" out of the weekend
Now how can I make this up to you?
what do you expect of a 10-point weekend without luxury?" (Dot)

Don't worry about the 10 points and the luxury Dot -- I'm happy for you just to get me across the Atlantic. Once over there, I can stay with my sister.

And thanks for offering to help pay, Azloon. Let me know as soon as your card is back in order.

This certainly is a nice blog!!

[azloon]

maggie

[my card is nax :)] me

should read 'maxed out.'

senior moment.

i guess, technically, they all are.

[dot king]

"Dory Previn is a bit obscure but certainly prominent news back then. but i couldn't tell you a single thing about her, and don't remember her from your description. your seeing her in concert must have etched a memory of her in you that the rest of us, other than the resourceful Maggie, couldn't muster."
Azloon

Mmm, but I had several albums before I went to see her - it was her lyrics that got me interested - i think I've quoted them before - once at least to you some time back, I suppose you didnt recognise them now "yada yada yada yada yada yaaada" - nothing to do with our lovely Minister for Human Rights.

I probably still know most of her songs off by heart, but I haven't bothered to get CDs, still the old 33rpms. That means I've moved on - with any luck : )

The husband (if anyone's interested) was of course André Previn, and one of the "lemon-haired ladies" was Mia Farrow:

those lemon-haired ladies
why must you see them
all that i want in your eyes
is to be them
time is on their side
that's what I lack
I wish you would just go away
no, come back

what in hell can I do
I'm supposed to be wise
for I am older than you
older than you . . .
(etc in same vein)

Je sais très bien plomber l'ambiance! J'en ai encore et encore!! : )

[dot king]

Now who asked for country lyric complaints? How about Dr Hook? (The boop-de-doop-girl bits are in brackets.)

when you're in love with a beautiful woman
you watch her eyes
(you know you watch her eyes
you know you watch her eyes)

when you're in love with a beautiful woman
you watch for lies
(you know you watch for lies
you know you watch for lies)

maybe it's just an ego problem
problem is I've been there before
with faint-hearted friends
and false-hearted lo-ho-vers
and every time it happens
it just convinces me mo-ho-ho-ho-ore

when you're in love with a beautiful woman
you know it's hard
(you know it gets so hard
you know it gets so hard)

Like I said a long way above, these guys really revel in all this!!
:-)

[dot king]

Here's something (lovely) that pretty much sums things up IMO ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03W-hOoo_Ro

[dot king]

"A man can choose a girl from places like Thailand, Ukraine or Russia, where a more traditional culture of femininity has not been similarly corroded. These women respect their man and understand how to please him, and in return he is motivated to honour and protect her."
(SMOKEBALL)

Go speak to Paul Loup Sullitzer, see what he says about this.
mostly these women respect the passport to a new life - a new nationality - that's what they're really motivated by.

BTW "je vous trouve très beau"

Pauv'con!

[azloon]

[I know very well sealing the atmosphere! I have again and again!]

Dot, this is how the google sausage factory translated the final sentence of you last post.

:)

[dot king]

azloon:
plomb is lead
le plombier is the plumber (deals with lead piping - or used to)

plomber is to plumb - as in depths

so, plomber l'ambiance is to spoil a good atmosphere

j'en ai encore = I have more of this (the same etc) and also "encore et encore et encore" is a line from a Dory Previn song
(i do like a nicely rounded post, don't you?) ;-)

[dot king]

Here are two English ladies, enfin veuves, retired to Florida for the great life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NzCg-oKVBk

[azloon]

DOT

re: blues in the night

just as i said eons (days?) ago on one thread or another: most men are no more than talking dogs.

and now we discover, women are too, to judge from your video link.

'bitches' is the technical term, i believe -- oh, yeah, IF they've conceived.

:)

[dot king]

"'bitches' is the technical term, i believe -- oh, yeah, IF they've conceived."

That comes across as rather aggressive considering the lightheartedness of the thread in general and my clip in particular, but then perhaps you use the word "bitch" more freely in American - in English it's an insult (this FYI so you know why when some English woman doesn't like being called a bitch and slashes your tyres - or something :) ).

Believe me, if I could have found a direct clip of Peggy Lee and Benny Goodman, I would have posted it, but that's the only one that came up in my search and it was that version of the song I was looking for.
It's a long time since I saw that film, but the dog is really singing "he's a tramp, but I love him, breaks a new heart every day, he's a tramp, but I love him and I wish that he would travel my wa-hay, wish that he would travel my way".
The most disappointing thing about that clip is that whoever put it together had the characters talk over Peggy Lee's singing the trumpet part in the middle. (I have the whole double CD BTW, recordings from the 1940's.)

BTW2 Women conceive, bitches whelp.

[azloon]

[Women conceive, bitches whelp.] Dot

my god, the things we can learn, said young Gerald McGrew, if i ran the zoo/read the blog.

didn't mean to offend.

of course, 'bitch' is offensive here as well, at least in mixed company (in male company, it is ...how can i phrase this....umm.... more common?)

i am imagining that the target of this 'perfomance art' may well have mumbled the french version of 'bitch' a number of times. to himself, of course.

i earlier had postd a less-than-flattering description of maleness ('talking dogs'), and took the occasion of your link, showing singing by female dogs (perhaps bitches but who really knows if they'd whelped or not), to bring the discussion full-circle. surely, Dot, the aesthete in you can appreciate a need for proportion.

< :o)

(i'll wear the dunce cap for fifteen minutes if you insist)

[Mary Fernandez]

Azloon, Dot -

"to bring the discussion full-circle. surely, Dot, the aesthete in you can appreciate a need for proportion."

See this great story from today. It has everything to bring the whole discussion full circle:

French woman jailed for castrating partner
02/05/2008

"The 64-year-old has been handed a 12-year jail sentence for castrating her partner and blaming it on her pet dog."

2 May 2008

LAON - A 64-year-old Frenchwoman has been handed a 12-year jail sentence for castrating her partner while he was unconscious and then blaming her pet dog, officials said Thursday.

The victim, aged 39, was rushed to hospital in northern France in June 2005 with his penis sliced off.

His partner called the ambulance herself, saying the dog had bitten off and eaten his genitals.

Knocked out after taking a cocktail of alcohol and medicine, the man had no recollection of the incident. Seriously traumatised, he is currently in a psychiatric hospital.

Police never recovered either a weapon or the missing body part.

http://www.expatica.com/fr/articles/news/French-woman-jailed-for-castrating-partner-.html
_________

64 y.o. and she has a 39 y.o. boyfriend. Gotta love those Frenchwomen!

Azloon, stay away from whelping bitches and cougars... :-)

[Mary Fernandez]

BTW, that's the difference between men and women.

Men blame the dog for their farts.

Women blame the dog for castrating and eating their partner's genitals.

Poor dogs.

[dot king]

(i'll wear the dunce cap for fifteen minutes if you insist)

Azloon

OK, but not a second less : )

[azloon]

Mary F.

Satire or fact?

Are you sure this news source, 'Expatica,' isn't the french version of "The Onion."

if true, this act technically is not a castration, as any self-respecting journalist would have known, rather a "dickectomy." castration is removal of the testicles, which, for all we know, the dog/woman/whelping bitch may also have done. :)

i mean i've heard of dogs eating children's homework, but this is ridiculous. i agree, this dog is taking a 'bum rap' here.

and in the name of dogs everywhere (remember i am a dog, albeit a talking one), i vigorously protest.

may i 'take' to the streets of paris to demonstrate my displeasure? if so, would anyone notice? maybe.... if i dressed in a dog costume with a very long papier mache human penis sticking out of the top of my head?

and for you cat lovers, didn't we hear above about an Indian women who performed a dickectomy and probably forced her cat to eat the 'dismember.' you may want to join me in my street protest. cosutmes are optional.

we have indeed come full-circle, or even full double concentric circles.

no need for fiction anymore in this world.

p.s. is there an anti-canine defamation organization, or 'dog empowerment' legislation, in France? they are certainly needed at a time like this.

the only suitable salve for the world's insanity is a round of golf today.

"Fore!!"

[dot king]

Mary Fernandez: If I'm picky (depends what day you catch me on) I say that penis-slicing isn't strictly speaking, castration. The article does however say "his genitals" as well as just "penis" so we don't really know whether she gave him the "woiks" or not.
I cook up butcher's scraps for my dog, I don't suppose he'd notice if a set of human genitalia sort of slipped in, by accident.
Maybe that's why they didn't find it/them!

I loved the title of your online newspaper Expatica.com but it was the sub-title that I thought went so well with the article "Happy Living, abroad".

[Mary Fernandez]

"Satire or fact?

Are you sure this news source, 'Expatica,' isn't the french version of "The Onion." "

Fact. It's a real site. Better hang onto you penis with both hands. :-)
______________

Dot -

'I loved the title of your online newspaper Expatica.com but it was the sub-title that I thought went so well with the article "Happy Living, abroad".'

Just to the right of "Happy Living, abroad" it says:

"Ready for France?"

and then it asks Again in bigger letters (as if you should really think about it):

"ARE YOU READY?"

[dot king]

"Fact. It's a real site. Better hang onto you penis with both hands." Mary Fernandez to Azloon

I don't think the story made it to the national level - I didn't hear it reported on the news yesterday (I'm sure I'd have remembered :-)).

It's a "private(s)" matter evidently. ;-)

I shall scour my Sunday paper forthwith.

[azloon]

[ don't think the story made it to the national level } Dot re story first revealed here by our ace reporter Mary F.

i think there is a conspiracy going on here. a woman performs genital surgery on her unconscious husband and it doesn't make the french news wires? :)

frightened males (using both hands) may begin to discover what it was/is like to know that serious crimes against one's minority group were committed but ignored by the media as not newsworthy.

do females run most of the paris dailies?

i would call this woman's behavior a crime against 'manity.'

speaking on monstrous acts, how is the Incest Monster story playing en super-cool France?

[qwerty]

Look, I don't know how the incest monster is playing in France, but there is a certain mélange des genres going on. I happened to catch "Un café l'addition" yesterday, which I usually avoid because (a) have better things to do around that time and (b) have a problem with the clenched-teeth sarcastic anger of the invisible Pascale Clarke and her Sganarelle, Nicolas Rey.

Whatever one thinks of Eric Besson (the guy who left Ségolène Royal for Nicolas Sarkozy and now has some sort of economic function in the government), it is NOT cool to show his picture between those of the monster wife of Fourniret and said incest monster of Austria as they did on that program.

[dot king]

AZLOON your remarks above the one quoted below just nearly made me choke on a piece of apple - that's somehow appropriate isn't it? especially if i tell you it's a Pink Lady.

"speaking on monstrous acts, how is the Incest Monster story playing en super-cool France?" Azloon

france being a natality-orientated country and strongly family-minded, is not at all super-cool about this, there IS only one word, isn't there - monster.
the more that is revealed about him, the worse it gets - photos of him as a sex-tourist in taiwan

shows us that on a smaller scale the unthinkable is still going on.

even here I can quote an appropriate Dory Previn song called "with my daddy in the attic" - he used to get drunk and lock himself up there with his daughter and a loaded gun.
not the same I know, but a story of the power of parents and the helplessness of children . . .

I wonder how this woman will construct herself after her 18-year ordeal, we can hardly even say "reconstruct" can we?

BTW I think you'll know what I mean when I say that people who seize power over others and misuse it to their own ends should be stopped, n'est-ce pas?

[Daniel Strohl]

Qwerty,

"Whatever one thinks of Eric Besson"

(I think he is an intelligent and courageous gentleman. However, a few days ago, at the Assemblée Nationale, some of his former socialist colleagues or comrades :)) called him publicly a traitor, along with various other niceties as for example Ganelon!).

I don't know "the invisible Pascale Clarke and her Sganarelle, Nicolas Rey". Je ne perds sans doute pas grand'chose - je suppose qu'ils "officient" tous les deux à Canal +, qui a le coeur à gauche et le portefeuille à droite ...

The problem is that at least 70% of the French media are left leaning. This of course is their good right; however, Antenne 2, FR 3 and the remaining public TV channels are left oriented instead of being neutral. I am not leftist, but nevertheless, I have to pay, along with several millions compatriots, "la redevance", in order to subsidize these gentlemen (and a few ladies as well).

Regarding ladies, one got me especially on the nerves several days ago, during the interview of Sarkozy by 4 male journalists plus the said lady. She spent several minutes of her valuable time, of the president's time, of our time to complain because of the (heating) gas price increase, which she seemed to find unbearable (one may assume that it was on behalf of leftist electors :)). The president was very patient with her - chapeau!

Fortunately, her male colleagues asked much more pertinent questions ...

PS : AZLOON - Ganelon was a knight of king Charlemagne; he betrayed the king's army to the Muslims (bataille de Roncevaux - Chanson de Roland).

[azloon]

Dot --

i really just wanted know how the french media were covering the Monster story (e.g. are there any opinion pieces about austrians/the austrian character?). i don't really believe french are less revolted than anyone else, though i am interested in knowing HOW the story is being covered, the extent of the coverage, etc.

what astounds me most about the story, as reported, was the degree to which the austrian government protected this sadist by expunging his previous criminal sex offenses, allegedly including rape, and allowing him to live totally unobserved, free to commit the most heinous of crimes.

in the u.s., the guy would have been on a list of registered sex offenders available to all his neighbors, for all of his lifetime. someone (not an official), no doubt, would have posted a sign in his front yard, announcing his sex offender status (which i think is overboard).

i noticed that several news accounts reported that at least a few neighbors knew of his sex crimes and seemed to think they were no big deal.

is rape something that is not treated seriously in austria? or is this just another one of these cases of people not really wanting to know what's going on?

[azloon]

Dot -- the timesonline article linked below is type of interpretative journalism i would expect from rational observers of this crime. are french commentators speculating about this crime as it relates to austria's nazi history? or is this all too close for comfort?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3867629.ece

[qwerty]

Daniel, I agree with you about Besson, I think that his political ideas have changed (faced with economic reality) and that he has acted sincerely and in conformity those ideas. (He's also hypersensitive and "un affectif" and probably half-believes his former friends when they call him a rat, which he shouldn't).

I'm actually glad that there is such a hallali of the press and other media, because it takes apart totally the allegations of the socialists, when Sarkozy was elected, that he had the "mainmise" on the French media.

Canal Plus really annoys me a lot of the time. But they cater to their audience: bo-bos and banlieues. They need those ratings. Every time I zap onto C+, there is an advertising screen. They're rich, all right, and especially those who were shareholders from inception, such as Michel Denisot (who used to own a football club and now owns race-horses).

It's a small club, ils ont tous les mêmes codes....

[dot king]

"Dot -- the timesonline article linked below is type of interpretative journalism i would expect from rational observers of this crime. are french commentators speculating about this crime as it relates to austria's nazi history? or is this all too close for comfort?"
Azloon

Thanks for the link which is much more detailed than anything I've seen in the French media I see/hear/read.
I don't know what to say apart from expressing, like everyone else, disbelief and horror.
One or two things come to mind re his early rapes - one dated 1960 - it is only a long time after this that rape became a crime that wasn't automatically "blamed" on the victim, so not surprising in a way that he got away with that, even repeatedly.
Power-freaks are common enough, fortunately not at this extreme - the situation is so unimaginable - I mean would you imagine, invent it? Like most of the horrific crimes that are comitted and eventually come to light, this beggars belief.
Perhaps that goes some way towards explaining why the neighbourhood noticed nothing? Don't we all have neighbours we might describe as "weird" without knowing anything in depth about their "behind-closed-doors" behaviour? (I have)

It's too big a step IMO to make the Austria-Hitler-Nazi connection (though I think it will have its supporters), there are monsters of this kind everywhere. What is especially disturbing is that we don't know how many we don't know about.
The dénouement, his allowing himself to be persuaded to let her out to go to the hospital, suggests to me that he knew his time was up -I've noticed this before with certain cases. I can't remember the name now, but very recently someone was let out on conditional liberty, didn't go to his psychiatric sessions, nor reported to the police as he should, committed a crime exactly like his previous ones, and seemed to be almost relieved to be going back to prison.

This isn't in any way in defence of these monsters, but I think they know their own evil and there comes a time when they can no longer live with it.

I need to reread and digest that article a bit more - those are just immediate reactions, off the top of my head.

[dot king]

PS to my last post - I was thinking of the false taxi-driver who murdered the Swedish girl, picked her up outside a night-club.
Didn't destroy any clues, was easy to find, used the victim's bank card - every predictable act -almost as if he wanted to be caught and get back to prison.
Anyway FWIW, that's what I couldn't bring to mind.

[Lily]

"there are monsters of this kind everywhere" (Dot)

the latest: http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2008/05/05/01011-20080505FILWWW00543-fritzl-avait-voulu-recreer-une-famille.php

I agree, Dot. On the other hand it seems undeniable to me that this monstrous behaviour has materialised in such a way that I'm not stunned that it occurred in a Germanic country. An evil idea combined with hidden expert planning and execution; people looking away out of fear - his wife, his close family, neighbours, colleagues, other citizens: all went blind because they were afraid of the monster's revenge; and his daughter and four children had to pay for all these people's fears. No matter what, their lives have been ruined.

This case is unique, with very little doubt, but it may alert everyone to watch out and speak up, if very strange things are going on. It could be a good idea to take 'fear' as a sign of alert, to be more attentive. No one wants to accuse another one falsely but sometimes it could be worth taking the risk.

Kampusch (the earlier victim in a different case in Austria) claimed that Fritzl had been able 'to get away with it' because people gave too much credit to 'authority'.

- and don't value 'children's rights' enough !

[Lily]

"An evil idea combined with ..."

... by which I do NOT say that evil = Germanic (!)(...)

[dot king]

Lily - I've just read the link to Le Figaro that you attach above, it's true that the french coverage of this story seems less detailed than that in the English language press.
There was just one point that really struck home, right at the end, where it says that Fritzl risks a life sentence (perpétuité) if it can be proved that the baby who died aged 3 days, died as a result of his negligence.
In the midst of the enormity of the rest of his atrocities, this seems a strange point to highlight.
Of course if it's shown that this baby died through his not getting medical care for it, he should be punished in whatever way the law reserves for him, but in view of the rest, the suffering caused to the children and grandchildren who survived, well, the mind boggles.

[azloon]

[the suffering caused to the children and grandchildren who survived Dot]

there are no grandchildren.

[Lily]

"the suffering caused to the children and grandchildren who survived Dot" (azloon quoting Dot)

Now, this is getting absurd. Dot, you cannot just pass away, being survived by suffering children and grandchildren without notifying the rest of us!

[dot king]

"there are no grandchildren".
(Azloon)

She is Fritzl's daughter, she had several children by him, so they are his grandchildren, his daughter's children - they are even his wife's grandchildren.
One died aged 3 days, the others survived. All the children this monster fathered with his own daughter, by force, are his grandchildren, n'est-ce pas?

Lily, no-one survives Dot : )

[azloon]

Dot, they are all his children, i believe.

the children of a woman naturally inseminated by anyone, including her own father, are that man's children, not those grandchildren.

in other words, a man can't sire his own grandchildren, even if his daughter is the mother of those children.

btw, let's 'cut this guy some slack.' he said he was only wanting a large family.

(excuse me while i vomit.)

p.s. serious birth defects, e.g. a baby with male AND female genitalia, are a possibility in the 2nd generation following incestuous conception. the downstairs group may never have normal married life, tho the upstairs ones may. geneticists will doubtless warn them of this possibility.

[dot king]

azloon,
OMG, of course, you're quite right, he IS their father, in thinking about his imprisoned daughter, I'd made the step to grandchildren.
Positively sickening.
Her mother is their grandmother? Or have I got confused there too?
the more you consider the implications the worse it gets.
Poor kids.

[azloon]

Dot, i wondered about the status of the mother as well. perhaps grandmother, but since it was her husband who fathered these children, i am going to declare on the side of calling her their mother. calling them her grandchildren lets her off the hook, on which, i believe, she surely should hang (for a long time).