Ten top topics for France this week

It's not surprising that the French are gloomy these days if you look at the news items that are getting their attention. Paris Match offers a regular glimpse with an Ifop poll on the top subjects of conversation at home and in the work place. 

Here are this week's top 10 and an interesting detail from Ifop. Ninety-one percent of people with university degrees said they had discussed President Sarkozy's verbal assault on the man who would not shake his hand at the farm show but only 65 percent of those without higher education did so. Only one topic (Cotillard's Oscar) is straight good news.  It's also worth noting how little sport or entertainment makes the list. The performance of the national rugby team ranked 15th.

1 -- Rising prices and (falling) purchasing power (discussed by 87 percent)

2 -- Sarkozy's exchange with the man at the farm show (77)

3 -- The campaign for local government elections (68)

4 -- The sixth anniversary of capture of Ingrid Betancourt, half-French hostage of Colombian rebels (65)

5 -- The Oscar for best actress won by Marion Cotillard (61)

6 -- The debate over how children should be taught about French Jewish children who died in the Holocaust. (57)   

7 -- Racist behaviour by supporters during football matches (53)

8 -- Sarkozy's decision to end advertising on public television (49)

9 -- Sarkozy's law allowing certain dangerous criminals to be detained indefinitely (delayed for 15 years by the Constitutional Council) (36)

10 -- The Obama-Clinton duel for the US Democratic nomination (36)    

Comments

[Christine]

If I may, the terms you use for point 9 are incorrect. The detention de "sûreté" can be applied to any person sentenced to prison for a minimum term of 15 years. The law does not apply exclusively to sexual crimes.

[You're right but it's only sexual crimes that people have been talking about. I'll change it. CB]

[Joan Arles]

Does Ifop ask a multiple choice question or are people free to name the topics they give the pollsters?

[Joan -- They draw up a list of subjects from a small survey and then ask their interviewees the following question:

"For each of the following topics, tell me if they have this week stirred conversation with those close to you at home or at your place of work ?" CB]

[Alex Blagona]

Thank you Charles, for keeping my A Level students humourously abreast of what's going on in France!

[Christine]

[You're right but it's only sexual crimes that people have been talking about]
Have they really ? Or are these the words Paris Match (or IFOP or whoever) used in the questions?

[Match said simply: La loi sur la rétention de sûreté. CB]

[Daisy]

The French do love polls, don't they? Perhaps they should have a poll about having polls

[Christine]

Follow up. I just had a look at the poll published on the IFOP site. The question is about the "loi sur la rétention de sûreté", without any mention of "sexual criminels"
(You don't have to publish this comment, it's just a personal remark...)

[thanks. You'll also notice that when Sarkozy was asked about it in today's Figaro, he only talked about sex criminals. That's what the law was for, as in the UK and elsewhere. CB]

[Hope]

These are also the subjects that the media in general are ramming down our throats at the moment so I guess it's normal that they are subsequently talked about.

As for no. 9, I live very near Fresnes prison where all these dangerous prisoners are going to be locked up all together. Not very reassuring for us.

[davveld]

Quote: "delayed for 15 years by the Constitutional Council"
Où est le "report"/"retard" ? Le Droit français prévoit juste qu'on ne peut appliquer à quelqu'un une loi qui n'existait pas lorsqu'il/elle a commis un acte. La loi sur la rétention ne s'appliquera donc (dans 15 ans en effet) que pour les personnes qui seront condamnées à partir de ces jours-ci. Et cette loi remet d'ailleurs en cause de nombreux autres principes fondamentaux du Droit (en particulier le fait d'enfermer quelqu'un parce qu'on prévoit qu'il commette un crime, et non pas parce qu'il a commis un crime)

[D'accord, vous avez raison juridiquement, but the effect has been to delay application for 15 years. Other countries introduced their measures retroactively in the French sense on the grounds that this was not a penal but an administrative action. CB]

[Juliette]

[Other countries introduced their measures retroactively in the French sense on the grounds that this was not a penal but an administrative action.]
Yep, but the European Court of Human Rights didn't let it pass, so it was scraped eventually.

[Juliette]

Oh, while I think about it: Charles, as a European citizen living in France, did you take up the opportunity to sign up to vote on Sunday's elections? [Yes. CB]

[Christine]

Following up on your last comments (sorry because this isn't the topic of your post but it nags me).
[You'll also notice that when Sarkozy was asked about it in today's Figaro, he only talked about sex criminals. That's what the law was for, as in the UK and elsewhere. CB]
This is exactly my point: Sarkozy says the law is for sexual criminals. But it is not because he says it is... that it is. As a matter of fact, the law is explicitly NOT restricted to sexual crimes (the text voted by the Parliament is available at http://www.senat.fr/leg/tas07-060.html).

[Other countries introduced their measures retroactively in the French sense on the grounds that this was not a penal but an administrative action. CB]
This is Dati's argument in favour of retroactivity... In Canada, preemptive detention can only be pronounced if the criminal has been declared dangerous at the time of the sentence (a condition that made de facto retroactivity impossible).

[Brigitte]

What your thoughts on the Obama-Clinton duel? Should America's furture president(s) act like that?

[ken]

As for #2, Sarkozy responds appropriately (if vulgarly) to a man who was unprovokedly insulting. He should have smiled and walked on?

Ken

[Donald]

From Christine's comments:
"[You're right but it's only sexual crimes that people have been talking about]
Have they really ? Or are these the words Paris Match (or IFOP or whoever) used in the questions?

[Match said simply: La loi sur la rétention de sûreté. CB]

Posted by: Christine | 6 Mar 2008 13:15:46 "

CB is right ...
France 2 Television news on "La loi sur la rétention de sûreté" referred only to sexual crimes - implying that was the real motivation for the law.

[azloon]

[What your thoughts on the Obama-Clinton duel? Should America's furture (sp) president(s) act like that?] Brigitte

act like what, Brigitte??

do you think Obama, Clinton and McCain are acting in some certain way -- other than as political candidates in a democracy?

actually, what you are witnessing the the u.s. right now is an extraordinary manifestation of the democratic spirit -- at least by american standards.

the interest in the presidential election here is unprecedented in my lifetime. we have three candidates of unusual integrity and stature, which has certainly not been the norm here over the past 25 years.

there is a feeling here that no matter who wins, democrat or republican, the nation will be much better off than it is now.

i share Michelle Obama's oft-quoted view, in that i feel pride in being an American for the first time in 25 years (she said 'in her lifetime' but i am a bit older than she).

for better or for worse, you are seeing the best that the u.s. has to offer the world.

it doesn't get any better than this.

so take it or leave it.

cheers

[Ros]

HOPE:
" I live very near Fresnes prison where all these dangerous prisoners are going to be locked up all together. Not very reassuring for us." - I really think this is exagerating - I live very near the Prison La Santé (an odd name if one stops to think about it but I suppose only taken from its situation) but don't imagine an escaped prisoner is going to run to his immediate neighbours!

[Christine]

France 2 Television news on "La loi sur la rétention de sûreté" referred only to sexual crimes.

Posted by: Donald | 7 Mar 2008 04:12:19

France Télévisions is wrong. It happens.

[christopher muir]

The Clinton-Obama duel ranks as number nine! I find this surprising, but it probably means that domestic challenges are dominanating gossip in France. I would have expected oil prices and greenhouse issues to be listed in the survey.

Azloon, I hope that you're right in your cheery observations - this is a critical time for the USA (and consequently for the world), so if the election winner should by any chance disappoint, we worker ants will face an uncertain future.

[Hope]

Ros, we've witnessed two breakouts. One by helicopter which flew over our building and landed in a nearby playing field where some kids had football practice. Yes, I know it's rare but it scared us. The prison de la santé is more for VIP prisoners, isn't it?!!

[Romain]

Read the actual law, and you'll see the cases covered are:
« 1° Meurtre ou assassinat ;
« 2° Torture ou actes de barbarie ;
« 3° Viol ;
« 4° (nouveau) Enlèvement ou séquestration.

Sexual criminals are not the only heavy psychotic cases into consideration.
On a bigger picture , the question is :"what to do with dangerous psychotic persons who are declared criminally irresponsible,the ones who have served their sentence,and the potentially dangerous ones?"
There is a recent case of a young schizophrenic man who atrociously massacred two nurses at Pau psychiatric hospital.
He was judged criminally irresponsible because of his mental illness. What are we to do with him? It is a hot potato between judicial and medical institutions. Add the very confusing decision from le Conseil Constitutionnel, and you get a legal mish mash.
Because the public is more sensitive to pedophile cases, the media put more emphasis on that particular aspect.

[Ros]

HOPE: Sorry, I didn't know - indeed it must have been frightening! Have no idea what sort of prisoners are in La Santé but you're maybe right!

[John Gregory Flinn]

Charles, these ten topics are almost a blog 'a la carte'. Did you intend it that way?

I fear for Ingrid Betancourt's safety.
The FARC are going to extract as much politics as they can from their high-profile hostages following the killing of their second-in-command in Equador.
Its could be a test for Sarkozy that he would'nt want.
There is a meeting in Santo Domingo of Latin American leaders, and no doubt Colombia will be castigated for his territorial incursions after the FARC and putting these hostages in more danger.

Indeed AZLOON's post sounds very patriotic. Looking at the USA from afar I suppose hope and optimism in some new leaders must be dominant themes at the moment with the stock market and the dollar going through the floor. I know the same is happening here and perhaps it will get into Charles' top ten soon

"What are we to do with him?"
ROMAIN - execute him!

[Romain]

John Gregory Flinn
Execution would be much cheaper indeed. But a guy called Badinter abolished death penalty in 1981, meanwhile he forgot to create an incrompressible life term sentence, like in U.K.
I got a quick and dirty solution for Ingrid : give Sarkozy a hat and a whip, and we shall get our French Indiana Nicolas Jones.

[Francois D]

I think that French are not too much - and actually - interested by american elections for several reasons:
- Method of voting appears complicated or even incomprehensible, and perhaps injust, and may be at risk of injustice, even of irregularities as for Bush's first election (and the ouster of Gore)
- They find it hard to form an opinion. Hillary Clinton's best-known and it seems to me that she wins their sympathy for that (she has also a lot of feminin sympathy for what she has lived with Bill, who is regarded here as a good President), but what is her real character? Obama is not yet very knowned, except that he has an exceptional charisma.
- Anyway the future one can not be worst than the actual, particularly regarding Iraq'war;
- And then, dn't you consider that we have enough worries with our President, before worrying about other's choices

[brémont]

the problem in France is perception it seems the government exist 15 years behind his time, and applies laws that will have work in the past, but this new globalization that they fail to understand, is encouraging the coming global civil war. the immigration laws are incoherent and do not make sense in relation to the realm and reality of the nation. in fact nothing has change the two political parties are are one and the same and corruption is the only way to exist. in short France might cease to be and Washington will do his trick again and impose a Marshall plan on the land of human Rights.

[Sam Young]

Bit off-topic, but on the subject of gloom:
According to the UNPS (Union Nationale pour la prévention du suicide), there are over 10,000 suicides in France per year, which is 1.1 suicide per hour, 24 hours a day.
Also, the highest risk age, of all ages, is 46 which is painfully and beautifully euphemistically described by the UNPS as "l'âge de la maturité et des ruptures".

[nicolas]

As a french person, if i met Sarkozy i would refuse to shake his hand, i am not the president and i don't like him. I won't insult him but i could not take his hand. As a president, he cannot insult the people. That means he is not able to keep cool, a terrible mystake for a "supposed" so important man. When he said to Mme S ROYAL to keep cool on TV, everybody agreed. When he insults the people, who can agree with him. The important thing is not about that man, it is about an important politician who is able to insult the people.So what could happen with some other important people like G Brown?

[azloon]

[Indeed AZLOON's post sounds very patriotic. Looking at the USA from afar I suppose hope and optimism in some new leaders must be dominant themes at the moment with the stock market and the dollar going through the floor.]

not so patriotic as a sense of relief that the u.s. may be about to move out of the 'contempt of the world' phase it has 'enjoyed' for the past eight years.

imo, our economic distress is going to trump all other issues for the next five years. we have dug ourselves a huge hole, and getting out is going to involve great pain and sacrifice. and most here don't even realize this yet.

we are 'in for' grim economic times, unlike anything since the stagflation of the 1970s. the stock market will be a disaster, imo, in effect going nowhere for a long period. per capita wealth will continue to decline, and economic pessimism will dominate the national psyche.

a little belt tightening won't be a bad thing, but the 'bling-bling' lifestyle is going to be seriously curtailed, or driven underground for those wealthy enough to avoid the consequences of the worsening recession we are now in.

i don't consider myself an apocalyptic sort, having sold securities to retail customers for 20 years (you can't be a pessemist and do this job).

i just think my assessment is realistic, if a bit on the downside of current consensus thinking.

have a nice day, and cheers

p.s the upside for americaphobes is that you won't be seeing many of us for quite awhile.

[Valentin]

"the upside for americaphobes is that you won't be seeing many of us for quite awhile"

I don't think there are any americaphobes here, or in Europe. We would have never been able to come out with something like "freedom fries".

[azloon]

Valentin --

the only americans i heard using the term "freedom fries" were wealthy, ultraconservative red-state republicans (unfortunately some of them my friends) who normally go ballistic at even mild criticism of u.s policies, or the suggestion of a tax increase.

the day after bush's reelection, a map appeared on the internet demarcating the east and west coasts as 'blue states' and the rest of the interior of the country as "Dumbfu*kistan."

the term 'freedom fries' originated in Dumbfu*kistan," you can be certain.

:)

[azloon]

btw Valentin --

No americaphobes in europe?

surely you jest.

i'll bet on any given evening in europe over the past eight years, there have been a million simultaneous conversations over coffee/cocktails in which the gist was 'cluck, clucking' about american immaturity and recklessness. and you personally were present, and participating, at a few of those, i would guess.

and this isn't even the european intellectual crowd where americaphobia is an article of faith.

[Lily]

"the term 'freedom fries' originated in Dumbfu*kistan," you can be certain" (Azloon)

"The name "freedom fries" was first used by Neal Rowland at his Cubbie's restaurant in Beaufort, North Carolina.[1] The story made national news, garnering the attention of other restaurants as well as the United States Congress."

(from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries )

[Valentin]

"i'll bet on any given evening in europe over the past eight years there have been a million simultaneous conversations over coffee/cocktails in which the gist was 'cluck, clucking' about american immaturity and recklessness"

That was in heated discussions on Iraq with the likes of MCD calling Chirac all kind of bird names :)
Seriously, I heard lots of people raging about Iraq, Guantanamo etc, but never against americans. We may be arrogant, but no more than New Yorkers are towards Ohians :)

[azloon]

[Neal Rowland at his Cubbie's restaurant in Beaufort, North Carolina] Lily on first use of 'freedom fries."

you can be sure that beaufort, north carolina is smack dab in the middle of dumbfu*kstan.

i notice that beaufort, n.c., has 19 sister cities and that 13 are in france (see below):

Beaufort-Blavincourt, France
Beaufort-en-Argonne, France
Chapdes-Beaufort, France
Montmorency-Beaufort, France
Beaufort-sur-Doron, France
Beaufort-en-Santerre, France
Beaufort-en-Vallée, France
Beaufort-sur-Gervanne, France
Beaufort, Haute-Garonne, France
Beaufort, Hérault, France
Beaufort, Isère, France
Beaufort Jura, France
Beaufort Nord, France

i don't imagine there is great effort expended to further cultural exchange between these cities, but perhaps i am wrong. it looks to me like beaufort, north carolina just picked every city in france with 'beaufort' in its name and declared it a sister city. that's what you would expect from folks in dumbfu*kistan. :)

btw, neal rowland sounds to me like some guy looking for his warholesque '15 minutes of fame.' wouldn't necessarily trust wikipedia on this one.

[Brian]

nobody calls french fries in the US freedom fries unless they are making some joke about the amount of spin washignton has infected our language with. And nowdays everyone calls them french fries. The big challenge facing them is to make a lower fat lower carb version to curb our rapacious obesity epidemic.

[qwerty]

Azloon, dumbfu*kistan: synonym of "fly-over states".

Re: "freedom fries": there are US lawfirms, and I won't name names, that called their Parisian offices the "freedom office" back in 2003. Notoriously republican lawfirms, of course.

[azloon]

[We may be arrogant, but no more than New Yorkers are towards Ohians :)] Valentin

oh give me a break, mon ami.

not only do new yorkers not talk about ohio, many do not know where it is.

or, frequently, confuse it with Iowa or Idaho (similar sounding).

for many new yorkers, the united states' western terminus is the Hudson River (look at a map)..

I will grant you, however, that scornfully negative chatter is not phobia, and that is probably what i meant.

re european intellectuals, my characterization stands.

"my characterization stands"

based on ?... :) hopefully you wont give me the "feeling" thing... or else I might take Maggie's formal tone and officially ask you to provide a link!

[azloon]

Valentin --

oh, everyone (but you) knows that !! no link necessary.

:)

[Valentin]

Still, still, Azloon, I must insist, I would really like an example, just one, if possible - a former journalist, trader and world traveler (be it only as marine party warden :)) is above rumours and chitchat, he must have SOMETHING tangible :)

[Jimbo]

It appears to me that many of the problems and concerns come about from the "Politically Correct" people. All people need to be accountable for there actions and all need to follow the laws established. They say you shouldn't offend anyone but I say if there is cause then they should be offended.

The double standard is utilized every day by the politicians and those in power.

Statically. 1 out of every 100 americans are in jail. This tells me that the punishment process is not severe enough to detur the crimes.

Many changes to improve our outlook on all issues today would be brought about by simply getting back to basics!!!

[azloon]

[Statically. 1 out of every 100 americans are in jail. This tells me that the punishment process is not severe enough to detur the crimes.] Jimbo

let's see, a five-year mandated minimum sentence for possession of crack cocaine. not enough.

how about the firing squad or lethal injection (an overdose of cocaine?)?

we need to get rid of federal and state mandated minimum sentences. that would empty u.s. prisons with no appreciable threat to public safety.

[Brigitte]

the prisons in the u.s are full of people who killed or anything along the lines of that sit in jail for their whole life living off of tax payers money and living a free life when they should be put to death...that would empty the prisons

[azloon]

[when they should be put to death...that would empty the prisons] Brigitte

.....and you have a nice day as well !! :(

[azloon]

[Still, still, Azloon, I must insist, I would really like an example] Valentin

you're like a dog with a bone. :)

[V]

:) no, it's rather that from all the debates I see and read about here, there's nothing fundamentally anti american. I wonder if that's not just the perception in America (or yours?)

[Brigitte]

Azloon, people who kill or do anything along that line should just sit in prison and waste tax payers money?i'm not saying that the people who went to prison for something like stealing a dog should be put to death...

[Valentin]

"Azloon, people who kill or do anything along that line should just sit in prison and waste tax payers money"

They can work to compensate the expenses the state makes with them.

[azloon]

[They can work to compensate the expenses the state makes with them]

Good idea, Valentin

probably too sane to have a chance here.

Brigitte, most criminals in u.s. jails/prisons are in there for drug offenses. excecute them?

as an alternative, how about letting them go after a short period of rehabilitation?

[Brigitte]

i didn't say that people in jail for drug offenses should be excecuted, i know that one jail in the u.s has 800 people on death row for years and years and only 1 person has been excecuted from that list...making that person the 3th to be killed in that state...i'm just trying to say that people who are put in death row should be killed right away

[azloon]

[i'm just trying to say that people who are put in death row should be killed right away] Brigitte

it doesn' work that way here, Brigitte. taking a life is a serious matter (as europeans obviously appreciate and thus don't do). every appropriate legal tactic must be exhausted here before a person is murdered by the state for their crime.

i believe the death penalty is 'on the way out' AGAIN in the u.s. it was only re-legalized twenty years ago.

in Illinois, the death penalty has been suspended because it was discovered that police there were faking evidence in order to secure convictions (to appease the public, promote themselves). innocent persons were executed because of police malfeasance. police, anywhere, are not to trusted in such matters. the pressure on them to make arrests leads them to evil deeds.

Texas is the last bastion of the death penalty. when Bush retires, he could return to his ranch and work part-time as the state's executioner.

not as far-fetched as it sounds (he was a leading proponent of the death penalty during his texas governorship, and denied every last-minute appeal to him by prisoners on death row).

[Brigitte]

> azloon
Here as in where?

most people on death row got there because they took a life(s).
isn't there an old saying "do one to others, as you would have others do one to you"...