Is Colonel Gaddafi a Frenchman?

If Colonel Gaddafi was so eager to linger in Paris when he came last December, it was perhaps because the Libyan leader is half French. His father was an air force pilot from Corsica. That's him in the picture on the left. 

This extraordinary claim has surfaced over the past few days after a report by Bakchich, a French investigative news site. They looked into a legend which has long circulated in Vezzani, a village of 600 people in eastern Corsica. According to this, a Vezzani gendarme's son called Albert Preziosi was stationed in the Libyan desert with the Free French air force in 1941-42. He is said to have had an affair with a local woman at about the time that young Muammar would have been conceived.

Preziosi was killed when his aeroplane was shot down over Russia in 1943. As a member of the famous Normandy-Niemen squadron, he has been celebrated as a hero in his home village ever since. An air force base near the town of Solenzara, is named after him. Not a shred of evidence exists to stand up the Gaddafi legend but the physical resemblance is so strong that it has persisted.

Officially, the father of the Supreme Guide of the Revolution was Abu Meniar Al Gaddafi, a Bedouin goat breeder in the region of Syrte. His mother, a local tribeswoman, was named Aisha. The Italian occupation and the war destroyed all records of the couple, according the French investigators.

Preziosi is remembered by surviving comrades as a charmer. According to some, he talked about having a child in Libya. Pierre Lorillon, a Major who joined the squadron in Russia after Preziosi's death told Bakchich that his wartime comrades had no doubt about Gaddafi's paternity. "We all knew that Albert had had a girlfriend from the 'big Libyan tent', in other words a noble woman from the high bourgeoisie...We only knew that he had a child with this woman and that an uncle had taken care of her and sent her to study abroad".

Members of Preziosi's family were reluctant to talk or said they knew nothing about a child, according to the site and French newspapers which picked up the story this weekend. Jacques-Antoine Preziosi, a nephew who is a Marseille lawyer, said that the family had nothing to confirm the legend and had never thought of investigating it.

Jean-Pierre Pagni, the Mayor of Vezzani, told le Journal du Dimanche that Preziosi was the village hero. "We have no proof of this paternal link but nothing contradicts it either," he said. 

Bakchich dug up an exchange of letters between senior officers which showed that the air force History Service tried to investigate the story in 1999. A general concluded that the paternity was not possible because the Preziosi was based 600 kilometres away from Gaddafi's reported birth place. The news site quotes other squadron pilots who contradict this.

Perhaps someone will end the mystery with a DNA check. In the meantime, some in Corsica are remembering that Gaddafi gave strong support to FNLC separatist guerrillas there in the 1970s. That is hardly evidence of filial attachment, since the colonel was handing out weapons and training to just about every terrorist outfit in those days.

KADHAFI : l?enquête corse

[Vezzani below]

   

 

Comments

[millier marc]

maybe sarko is his half brother.
oh my god!!

who 's who????

[rocket]

I love it. One of the biggest terrorists and these "ploucs" from Corsica are ready to greet him.

How many French did he kill in the UTA explosion. Right. Just as long as he is Corsican. Then he is ok!

PS - The father is nicer looking than the "son"

[Christine]

Human history is full of records about hidden or rumored paternities... Funny to see how a structural narrative pops up again once in a while.
By the way, Charles, I watched you on Canal +, saying regarding the "children of the Shoah" debate that France is not reconciled yet with its past. It was true 15 years ago. But I really don't think the assertion still holds. And replacing history with pure emotional experience is a strange idea.

[Jorg Andersen]

The resemblance is certainly extraordinary. Surely some secret service must have checked all this long ago. At least since DNA testing was invented. Khadafi was public enemy number one back in the 1970s and 1980s when he was blowing up airplanes and Reagan sent the air force to bomb him and kill his daughter.

[Dominique]

Christine,

Agree with you. What does it take to reconcile with the past? What does it actually mean? We were more reconciled with the past 20 year ago than now. That does not make sense.

What we are experiencing nowadays is not "reconciliation" with the past, but dolorism at his best : implore, whine, cry, and transform victims into real heroes.

Same philosophy with Mrs Humbert, with children victims, with anyone who can go on television and complain about anything. That's exactly why Sarko wants so much Religious comeback : dolorist business! suffer, pray and hope is what people should do! but please don't ask for more hapiness on earth! let us go on our Bolloré's yachts!

Sarko is doing the very exact opposite of what he said during the campaign : he tries to make us feel guilty for what happened in the 40's. Why not the vendéens? the Palatinate? the Huguenots?

I want to to recall some truth : neither me (i wasn't born), nor my parents or my grand parents did kill neither denounced any jew. France declared war at Germany and lost. Should France feel guilty about it? Maybe France should'nt have declared war to Germany in 1939 and let it go with Poland. We wouldn't have to weight the holocaust burden and could say "it was all Grmany's!". Let us remind that 75% of the french jews did survive the Holocaust, unlike in other coutries in Europe.

I know that is not politically correct nowadays, but Sarko is now clearly pissing us of.

[dot king]

Hmm, the Sarko-Corsica-Gaddafi Connection - there are a whole series of "coincidences" concerning Corsica which bear closer examination - this, however unlikely, only adds fuel to the fire IMO.
BTW I don't think there is a strong physical resemblance beween "father" and "son", but the very fact of this emerging at this point in time is interesting indeed.

[concedo nulli]

Dominique, Are you French? Your reasoning seems so warped to me. I was born in 1944 from parents in the Resistance and unfortunately I was never asked to confront the fact that jews were denounced by French people during the war. I did not worry enough about it because my own mother was denounced to the Gestapo and I was born when she was "en clandestinité". I believed I knew enough about the war. I belong to a generation who heard first-hand accounts of those times. But as you know it is best when History is told by those who were not actors -or victims. The idea is to make the people of this country more civilized, more sensitive to the past, more curious of others, more accepting. Children aged 10 are receptive and resilient . If little Tadashi or little Mohamed is French, the deportation of jewish children during the war and their death will be part of the history of his country just like the death of Louis XVII at the hands of the commissaires du peuple of which I must have read when I was ten years old; It did not give me nightmares, but it certainly warned me against the cruelty of human beings.

[Maggie G]

Dominique,

You say that Sarkozy is "trying to make us feel guilty for what happened in the 40s".

I don't agree. The holocaust is remembered in Canada too. Guilt has nothing to do with it. It's just something that everybody should know about, whether their country was "guilty" or not.

We have to know that these things can happen. We have to know that freedom, democracy, and civilization can never be guaranteed -- that each new generation has to be taught to appreciate them and safeguard them.

We can never take our freedom for granted -- it has to be won, over and over again.

[Daniel Strohl]

Dominique,

"but dolorism at his best" -

Dominique, you can't accuse Sarkozy to have invented dolorism! C'est une vieille ficelle de gauche comme de droite - en général plutôt de gauche d'ailleurs; if we believe some propagandistes de gauche - not you, of course - we are still in the age of Germinal, avec un quarteron de capitalistes debout sur la dunette de leurs yachts, le sabre d'abordage entre les dents et le pistolet armé à la ceinture - LOL!

More seriously : is it so difficult for you to imagine or to believe that Sarkozy may be sincere ? He has Jewish blood.

I like what CONCEDO NULLI wrote about the matter; however, I am myself somewhat uneasy with the whole idea.

But I am pretty sure that if the same idea had been launched by a newly elected président(e) de gauche, many media would have been enthusiastic (this is of course not true for Dominique, but he is not a media either ...).

[Charles B]

Since we have veered onto Sarkozy and the Holocaust, here's the link to my story in the newspaper http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3379071.ece

"We can never take our freedom for granted -- it has to be won, over and over again"

Wonderfully said.

[Dominique]

Daniel Strohl,

"More seriously : is it so difficult for you to imagine or to believe that Sarkozy may be sincere ? He has Jewish blood. "

I am sorry, but this way of thinking does not make sens to me : what do you call "jewish blood"? There is nothing like that, this is a typical racist classification made by those who can't accept free choice made by the individual once adult.

Regarding rememberance of the holocaust, this is already done officially in France, it is taught in school, and we also have a national day of rememberance (January 27) for the Shoah. Below is a very good site about what can be done at school :

http://www.memorialdelashoah.org/

More, as a teacher in Paris, i have had the opportunity to witness some temoignages (witnessing?..) from survivors of the camps explaining to the children that they had been taken while they were pupils of the very school they were in! These temoignages are breathtaking and all children face these old people with the idea that they actualy were in the very same classrooms. Thes shoah survivors also come with pictures of their own classes in the 40's in the very same building. That is very good and identification is complete.

Nothing more is needed. We need no official mass! Are we going to do even more by forcing the children to take care of a "dead child"?

Simone Weil is a woman i admire a lot. Her life is an exemple for all, and she said it all : she was horrified by the idea. Not one need to weight the memory of her sister! She can do it herself.

The specificity of the holocaust is that it was a mass murder and an industrial phenomenum. It is not to be approached as if it was only individual dramas. It was a global drama. You can find plenty of children who did suffer as much as the jewish children that were sent to Auswitch. That does not make the Shoah less specific. You could even write that approaching the Shoah through individual stories will destroy it's specificity as an universal event.

We are already doing a lot at school about it, maybe too much already. We should not add more, or it will be conterproductive. As Simone Weil said, teachers already make a great job about it.

Shoah survivors are dying, and they will be gone soon. Memory of the holocaust should survive through facts and history, not through emotions, neither should it be used by perverse polititians because they suddently can't fullfill their promesses.

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

France will never recover from the plain and simple fact that it was French policemen who rounded up and helped to deport French Jewish families, as well as those who had fled Nazi Germany seeking refuge in the country of Liberte Egalite Fraternite, and the rafle of the Vel d'Hiv children which had not been requested by the Occupying Germans. The operative word is French, and as Latins one must ask oneself : would Italian or Spanish policemen have done the same thing?
General de Gaulle said the Resistance saved the honour of France, but he was deeply ashamed of the collaboration that had taken place and did his best, as a politician to hush it all up after 1945.

[Ros]

"that it was French policemen who rounded up and helped to deport French Jewish families," - this was only very briefly mentioned on a good documentary concerning Petain's trial last night on the new TV channel "Vivolta"- perhaps because the children of the said gendarmes would have been offended?
It certainly wasn't their fault ...

[dot king]

It seems to be here that the "children in CM2 must adopt the memory of a deported Jewish child" topic is being discussed, so here goes:

There is a wealth of difference in teaching the Shoah collectively as part of the history of France, and expecting an individual child to take on, keep alive the memory of, and identify with, a child dead in the most horrific and unjust circumstances.

Setting aside the political implications of this "idea" being made public at the CRIJF dinner and the general "effet d'annonce", it should be considered, from whatever angle, teacher, parent, bystander, just what is level of the psychological maturity of a 10-year-old child and can s/he cope with the knowledge.

A child of this age who packs a suitcase and goes somewhere on a train with his parents is going on holiday. That is the association in his/her mind. S/he isn't going in fear, isn't going to a Hell that we, even as adults, can hardly imagine, we who have learned about it. Unless like Simone Weil and other survivors of the Holocaust, we have lived through it. Mme Weil knows from experience that the horror is too great for a child, "grandmother" (as someone says elsewhere) or not. We must respect her for firm view on this.

A child of the age of CM2 (Dominique will correct me if I'm wrong - most of my experience is 11+) has not yet completed his ability to decentre.
S/he is just beginning to take on board the idea that the things one does and says can have an effect on The Other. And to have clearer ideas of good and bad, right and wrong, justice and injustice.
The process of decentring happens over a period of years and the length of time needed varies with the child.
In a 10-year-old's general view of the world, of which he is still largely at the centre, people die if they're ill, or old, or by accident.

Stories, for children of this age - and older still, have happy endings. Good triumphs over evil.
This is clearly not the case for a deported Jewih child. Something is wrong with the story. Evil triumphs over good, that's not right - if you're 10 years old.

Illustration with a couple of 11-year-olds:- Story, with a gloomy setting, railway cutting, mouth of a tunnel, a red warning light like an evil eye or the fire of hell, a voice crying out a warning. At the end of the story which is premonitory, the main protagonist is killed.
Exercise: imagine the man could have spoken to the person crying out the warning, what might have happened? Write the conversation they would have had.
Result?
Character taken out of the dark, scary environment into the light and towards escape. Conversation overlooked in the urgency of rescue.
In one, the mysterious figure with the warning voice, whom we know to be a man, becomes a lovely and kind (and rich) young woman and they marry and live happily ever after.
In discussion with the children after reading their versions, each was emphatic, they didn't want the man to die, they wanted to save him, as said the girl "I just wanted to get him out of danger."

If you lay on to each child in CM2, the responsibility of a child whose fate they know in advance and whom they are powerless to save, then you risk interfering with their normal psychological development, by giving them a sense of helplessness in a situation in which they could feel personally responsible.
The whole idea of the extermination of a whole race of human beings is based in the vilest of absurdities, and will not fit into any of a 10-year-old child's concepts of right/wrong, good/bad, just/unjust.
The burden is inappropriate, too heavy, too soon.
There's time for too-harsh realities later, when psychologically they can cope with them. Leave them their childhood.

[Chris]

The Sarko-Shoahchild memorial fuss is complex and not easily parsed. But if France really wants to sensitize its youth to the downtrodden and forgotten, why not start with the living victims of racism, colonialism, and capitalist exploitation? The Education Ministry could "twin" French school kids with poor African kids in former French colonies, Aids orphans, or even Muslim kids in suburbs. These disenfranchised people are not cute, mute, Schindler List-type ghosts, they are living beings in need of immediate understanding, compassion, and help.

[Dominique]

Dot King, well said!

Chris, twining "french school kids with muslim kids of the suburbs"? Did you notice how colonial your sentence was? Those "muslim" kids of yours are as french as those you call "french kids".

For the rest, a book about building identities by transforming victims into heroes :

La souffrance comme identité
Esther Benbassa
Essai (broché). Paru en 03/2007

Eventhough i dont always share Benbassa's views (especially about school), she pointed interesting views about heralding suffering as an identity.

[Jeff Hayas]

Wake up, folks. French/German, Israeli/Arab, Serb/Albanian -- it matters not.
This is all like football gone mad. There is not one culture on Earth whose history does not cloak a dark secret cruelty or genocide. On our last day, each one of us will answer to The Creator for our stupid acts of anger gone awry.
As for Gaddafi and Preziosi, the photos say it plain: the person you hate may well be your long lost brother.
Embrace and forgive your own insanity while there is still time -- in War, the best killer gleans the booby prize.

[Guhar]

...no he´s a henchman!

[Valentin]

Finally, finally la Droite comes with a few humanist ideas, and there they go, all the Gauche raised as one against them! Weird days we're living :)

[Lily]

"Finally, finally la Droite comes with a few humanist ideas, and there they go, all the Gauche raised as one against them! Weird days we're living :)"

Valentin,

the criticism involves

A) Sarko's method of implementing his personal idea.

B) The idea - which is neither humanistic nor humanitarian.

It is interesting to read reader reactions on Charles' main article that are generally more positive.

I agree with both Dot's and Dominique's view. Those who approve of Sarkozy's initiative approve of the general effort to teach history (the Shoah) to a new generation. This is getting done already.

The history edcuation that I have seen at the French "Ecole Primaire" so far, has been EXCELLENT.

Valentin,

It depends on your definition of the word "humanism".

[JL Ronish]

He does LOOK French but has anybody smelled his breath to be sure?

[Daniel Strohl]

Dominique,

"There is nothing like that, this is a typical racist classification made by those who can't accept free choice made by the individual once adult”.

Dominique - ??? What has this choice to do with the fact that somebody has parents or grand'parents with Jewish, Alsatian, Breton, Auvergnat or whatever blood or to say it differently, if you don’t like the word blood, is of Jewish, Alsatian etc. descent: ? If I mention the fact that your grand'parents were Auvergnats (you said this once if I am not wrong), does this imply that I am racist "anti-auvergnat"?? May be yes, if I say that you are "très économe" even if it is not true - LOL!

However, Dominique, the core of your post is very interesting. I was not really aware of what was already and really happening in French schools regarding the shoah.

PS: I heard yesterday and this morning also that Hollande had first said that he did agree with Sarkozy's idea. This of course is/was his good right as a human being, even if he is one of the bosses of the opposition. Now he asks the président to withdraw his project! Does this mean that Hollande's philosophical or ethical ideas are geared to the results of the polls and to the internet buzz? - LOL!

[Valentin]

After a few moments of deroute and dégringolade :) the French Left united against Sarko, as usual - as the Right did in his support, again as usual. What we hear in the media now are no longer free-minded opinions, but political positions - hence of little practical value.

I'm sure my use of the word "humanism" is quite clear. It's opposed to "capitalism". It's THAT THING the Right is NOT supposed to do, because it's the monopole de gauche. The gauche is humanist. It's for the Humans. It defends the Human being, in all its complexity, from naissance (I almost said conception, luckily I stopped on time! :) ) to the end of it. Humanism is open minded, cares for human rights, for richness of spirit (awful expression, my English and French mix into a literally gauche tongue these days..), humanism is for the feelings, for the defence of the poor and the oppressed, for the memory of the victims - OUCH! The bad word. Sorry!

Just one question. Now that the Left doesn't want Guy Moquet (cheap whining), nor shoah sentimental exploitation, I am wondering what's gonna be next: now that Sarko "regularizes" (gives visas) to the african waiters in the centre of Paris, will the Gauche ask for expulsion of these awful lawless people? :)

[Dominique]

D.Strohl,

Regarding blood, let me remind you that we are what we want to be, not what we are told we are.

Jews in Germany in the 30's were told by the nazis they were jewish because of their relatives. I remind you that plenty of people went to the camps being told they were jewish eventhough they did not know nor care until then. The nazis made this "blood" classification : the one with one jewish grand parent was jewish! That is clearly a racist view, forcing religious, ethnic, whatever, identity.

I am Auvergnat because i said so, no because the administration told me i was. That clearly makes the difference. And it is not linked to any genetics or "blood". Please note that Fadela Amara (french minister of algerian descend) claims that she is an auvergnate!

Individual choice is the key. More, let me remind you that we leave in a period of time were people can change their name, gender, and they will probably soon be able to change their skin color. They call it "true self". So, telling anyone he is something because his parents are is just an obsolet point of view. Unfortunatly, this is more and more a common point of view sending us back to the dark ages.

[Valentin]

Lily, more precisely, I can agree with many things, but not with the horror stories about putting the "shoah death weight" on these poor children and their frail shoulders.

As long as the way in which this "keeping the memory alive" will be done has not been explained, it's pointless to extrapolate, imagine all horrible sort of stuff and throw it back at Sarko (whose shoulders are hopefully ready for the weight of xxxx (many demeaning nouns decorated by no more beautiful adjectives which I'd rather taire come to mind - unless someone's esthetical system, like Umberto Eco's, happens to value la beauté du laid, in which case I'll be happy to send him the text in full by private mail).

Bref: we're "debating" without knowing HOW it's gonnna happen.

[rocket]

It would be nice if Sarkozy would think things through before acting on pure emotion. That is not the way a family should be run or a government.

"Is it necessary to do one by one, for each pupil? Perhaps we could find other solutions, such as choosing one victim per class," Darcos said on RTL radio.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/955435.html

[rocket]

Charles

Maybe a post about Villiers le Bel

http://www.ambafrance-us.org/atoz/defense.asp

"Withmore than 1000 French troops on the ground and roughly 1500 airmen and sailors, France is actively involved in Afghanistan and is one of the major partners of the United States in that country."

They put nearly as many resources on the ground in Villiers chasing down suburban kids and knocking down doors as they have in Afghanistan and those resources were at higher risk in Villiers

http://tinyurl.com/2rryao

I wouldn't ever again send one more American troop in harms way in Europe if the situation ever deems it necessary and I'm not hitting on the French but on all the European countries except Britain and the Netherlands.

[THE ANTI-BASHING GUERRILLA]

"They put nearly as many resources on the ground in Villiers chasing down suburban kids and knocking down doors as they have in Afghanistan"

It looks as if for the poster above deploying a regiment in Afghanistan is as easy and cheap as moving police around Paris region, and the cost and combat value of a policeman equals that of a marine.
Or is it that French-bashing can get addictive; in that case we seriously advise Rocket the following treatment: ten times a day, during a month, copy this sentence: I love the French and I'm happy in France.

[azloon]

[But if France really wants to sensitize its youth to the downtrodden and forgotten, why not start with the living victims of racism, colonialism, and capitalist exploitation? The Education Ministry could "twin" French school kids with poor African kids in former French colonies, Aids orphans, or even Muslim kids in suburbs. These disenfranchised people are not cute, mute, Schindler List-type ghosts, they are living beings in need of immediate understanding, compassion, and help.] Chris

ouch!!

keep coming back !

[azloon]

[Wake up, folks. French/German, Israeli/Arab, Serb/Albanian -- it matters not.
This is all like football gone mad. There is not one culture on Earth whose history does not cloak a dark secret cruelty or genocide. On our last day, each one of us will answer to The Creator for our stupid acts of anger gone awry........
Embrace and forgive your own insanity while there is still time -- in War, the best killer gleans the booby prize.] Jeff Hayas

i thought this needed to be posted again. God have mercy on us all.

[qwerty]

Well thanks, Rocket! I happen to be Dutch! I never really figured out Holland's attraction to certain other nationalities (Americans, Brits, Israelis...). They (sorry - we) must have qualities I haven't yet understood. Or maybe they're (sorry - we're) just less controversial.

[rocket]

In today's Libé it appears that there is some backtracking going on and the Ministers are cleaning up the mess that the President has made.

My excuses to non French readers

http://www.liberation.fr/actualite/societe/310867.FR.php

Firstly from the article

"Xavier Darcos organise la retraite."

Thank God it wasn't an anglo saxon newspaper who employed this word "retraite" They would have been burned alive by those I'll call "les hypersensibles"

Secondly from the article

«Ce qui est critiqué, c’est la complexité de l’idée d’une adoption d’un enfant par un enfant, mais personne ne critique le principe qu’il faille connaître la Shoah», a-t-il souligné.

I don't think in France apart a sprinkling of far righters anyone would contest the memory of the Shoah. It's the "forme" which was called into question not the "fond"

As we approach the elections the best advise that I could give (for what it is worth)to the President would be to measure your words before reacting.

We are all aware of "la pouvoir d'achat" and then the backtracking. "Que voulez- vous que je fasse, les caisses sont vide". Or "Il faut chercher le point de croissance". Well it's difficult to find a needle in a haystack.

Least we forget. "On ira cherher Ingrid Betancourt"

Politics has to be undertaken by serious reflexion, not 10 second sound bites.

Let's hope 2008 will be full of "sérénité" and "réflexion" and well thought out reform.

[rocket]

QWERTY

Didn't know you were Dutch. Must be the reason for your good English (wink) I am quite interested in what is going on with the Dutch now concerning the whole immigration policy. The Dutch were always known to be tolerant people. Overly tolerant. When I lived in Israel,(many years ago) there were tons of Dutch working on the Kibbutz who were not Jewish and quite a few who married Israelis or wanted to marry Israelis.

If you have time, could you give me some of your impressions of this change of attitude. (if change there is) Was it the Van Gogh murder or just a pent up feeling that is coming out.

Anyway, My favorite Painter. Van Gogh. I'll never tire or visiting the Van Gogh museum. and love those small towns and canals.

[rocket]

Anti Bashing Guerilla

Ok Ok! You win! but I just did one of these the other day for Lily and my hand is getting really tired writing down each letter before I type each word on the computer.

But here goes

I love to French and I'm happy in France.
I love to French and I'm happy in France.
I love to French and I'm happy in France.
I love to French and I'm happy in France.
I love to French and I'm happy in France.
I love to French and I'm happy in France.
I love to French and I'm happy in France.
I love to French and I'm happy in France.
I love to French and I'm happy in France.
I love to French and I'm happy in France.

Now please other bloggers, don't abuse my schoolboy cooperation.

[Lily]

"we're "debating" without knowing HOW it's gonnna happen."

Valentin,

Criticism no. 1 is about the fact THAT it is going to happen without having been debated before.

Criticism no. 2 is about the idea itself, no matter HOW you put the adoption of a dead Jewish child into practice.

The HOW will not change the basic idea.

And, again, French schools do already cover this topic.

[Maggie G]

Rocket,

Is it by accident or on purpose that you write "I love TO French" rather than "I love THE French"?

Just wondering what the verb "to French" means, but then I probably don't want to know.

[Valentin]

Lily,
I see the whole thing as launching a debate, in pure Sarko style. He didn't impose anything, he threw the thing in the public arena TO BE DEBATED justement, frankly and without prejudice.

D'ailleurs I have a hard time seeing what's wrong with little Mathieu learning about little Benjamin: he was 9 year-old in 1943, he lived in Auvergne, he was a good student, a fine boy, he liked to paint, he was kidnapped one april morning, given up to the Germans, and ended his life in a place called Chelmno in Poland. We don't need to enter any kind of morbid details, but make it just like for a deceased grandmother. That never posed any "burden" on anybody, why would little Benjamin?

[Nadezda]

Dear friends
Give me chance to reach Russian Presidents.

Уважаемый Владимир Владимирович,
уважаемый Дмитрий Анатольевич,
нужно отринуть мещанскую догму: уж кто как «устроился». Обновите свое восприятие мира.
Вы часто говорите о стране. И я позволю себе пафос. Стране нужны проекты-бренды в интернет-сегменте.
Гарантирую: профитными арт-проектами я заложу основы отличной студии.
Поймите: в мире осталось очень мало реальных (не графоманов) сценаристов.
Сейчас нужен шанс самому автору делать проекты в интернете. Иначе потом страна не сможет конкурировать в этом виде бизнеса. А это восхитительный бизнес.
С уважением, Надежда Петрунина – сценарист, драматург, прозаик
With respect,
Independent Filmmakers
Nadezda Petrunina & Vladimir Kuznetsov
Contacts:
Petrunina Nadezda
Vladimir Kuznetsov
Moscow 107061 Russia
Telephone/ Fax 499 162 11 10
Vladimir-S-Kuznetsov@yandex.ru
Petrunina-Nad@yandex.ru
http://www.vladstepkuznetsov.com/

[Valentin]

The HOW can always change everything, because it's not the label that really matters, but the effect the thing has in real life for real people.
But of course, you can argue that the idea is bad or unnecessary, so why talk about it in the first place.
Something doesn't sound right about that. Wasn't it preferable that instead of all this outcry and frontal resistance, the opposers talk pragmatically and show it's not necessary, or not gonna work, and let it fade into oblivion? Is it normal to refuse it so straight away, from the principle, like anything else coming from Sarkozy - I'm not particularly speaking about Lily here.
If I look at how harsh the Guy Moquet idea was also fought and ridiculed by the same humanist Left (in real life France, not here), I can see a pattern which I find neither civic, nor democratic.

We'll probably not change our respective opinions anyway, so I'll leave it to that :)

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

QWERTY You have two keyboards. That's why I like the Dutch = an amazing proficiency in languages. I have been banging on for years suggesting to the British that they adopt the Dutch system of teaching languages, but ...nothing.
Politicians do not listen, they talk, and they interfere, as they have with the educational system in the UK since 1945: result, an army of illiterates and semi-literates, and scores of teenage murders by knife and gun.
Children do have early memories, but Sarko's soundbite is not necessary. Just so long as teachers continue with the
uncensored history of the German atrocities, they will remember. At 7 I remember seeing the film of the Nazis burning books, and even remember the title of one in the flames: "A Farewell to Arms", and my mother (a teacher) saying: "A nation that burns its book will come to a bad end."
"The Diary of Anne Frank" leaves a lasting impression on very young girls, and if there is a good investigative writer in France he/she could do the full story of Jacques Stern, which would stay in the memories of boys of his age (as I was) when he died in Auschwitz.
The testimony of Professor George Wellers at Eichman's trial:
"They arrived in buses, under the guard of the French police. The live cargo was quickly unloaded...The children were frightened...I was among the few who had access to them...some were barely two or three years old, they did not even know their names and we could not identify them. We put little discs on them bearing the names we gave them...They were all in rags and terribly dirty. They had sores all over their bodies and all suffered from diarrhea. They could not even get down to the lavatories...We had four groups of detainees to clean them and take care of them. At night we were not allowed to stay with them. They were crying, waking each other up and calling for their mothers....It was awful.
"Rene Blum, the brother of France's ex-Premier, was with me. One day we saw a boy perhaps seven or eight years old. He was in tatters, though it was obvious his clothes had once been of good quality; he had only one shoe. But he seemed very gay. Rene Blum, a tall man, bent down and asked the boy's name. He said: 'My name is Jacques Stern.' About his parents he said that his father had worked in an office and his mother played the piano. 'She plays well,' said the youngster. He asked whether he would soon leave the camp and join his parents. We always used to tell the children that they would soon be reunited with their parents though we knew that it was a lie...We told him that within two or three days he would join his mother. Then he took from inside his torn coat a piece of he army dry biscuit which the children were given, and said this: 'I've kept this; I'll give it to Mother.' Rene Blum was about to caress him when suddenly the boy, who a moment ago had been carefree and gay, burst into terrible loud sobbing. We left the room in silence...All four thousand children were soon sent away."
The stories of Anne Frank and Jacques Stern will warn them of the cruelty of human beings. There is no need to know the identities of 11,000 others, besides which, they did not have names, they became numbers to the Germans.
Sarkozy is not trying to make anyone feel guilty, he is saying: "Lest we forget" There are enough Holocaust deniers and Nazi propagandists, and re-writing history to keep us worried. I remember one who wrote constantly to newspapers in England saying the Basques had set fire to their own town, Guernica. He was in the pay of the C.I.A. But I knew an Australian reporter called Noel Monks, former high-diving champion, who lay on the hillside and witnessed the Condor legion practising the first German mass bombing raids. I also remember Spaniards attacking German tourists after they had seen the first film of the Holocaust on TV, because they had heard nothing of it during Franco's reign. Beware the liars, the paid propagandists, and the censors. Lest we forget.

[rocket]

Maggie

to French = To French Kiss

I wouldn't have written anything improper as I'm now in the line of fire after my last h**d d**k comment

[Daisy]

Maybe if Sarko lead a more moral life himself, people could take him seriously.

[Terry]

Qwerty:

"I never really figured out Holland's attraction to certain other nationalities"

Legalized marijuana and prostitution. Visiting Ann Frank's attic.

[Terry]

Nadezda said:

Обновите свое восприятие мира.
Вы часто говорите о стране. И я позволю себе пафос. Стране нужны проекты-бренды в интернет-сегменте.
Гарантирую: профитными арт-проектами я заложу основы отличной студии.

Oh, I couldnt agree more with this statement.

Charles, does this blog accept Hebrew script too? How about Druid runes?

[I don't read Hebrew or Druid. The Russian is a plea for support by a couple of film-makers. Not on topic but a lot of what goes on here is off the subject. CB]

[Terry]

Rocket:

One more if I may impose:

"I will not write down anything ten times anymore"

[Lily]

Ree, Rocket,

I hereby apologise for having asked you to copy something ten times. I hoped you would say I’m sorry instead of copying that thing ten times. Now, we see how silly the copy exercise has been.

The anti-bashing police sound as off-putting as bashing itself. So, I am not going to say anything anti anymore.
-----------------------------------------------------

Tee, Terry,

Is your upcoming trip to France putting you in such good mood?

------------------------------------------------------

“I see the whole thing as launching a debate, in pure Sarko style. He didn't impose anything” (Valentin)

Vee, Valentin,

We have a subscription to a French daily for kids (10 to 14year olds), and it explained everything about the Shoah and the Jewish child adoption that you could possibly debate, once the thing will have been decided upon.
The THAT wasn’t debated.
This thing will be taught during the school year 2008/2009.

What you call forgivingly “pure Sarko style” isn’t the democratic way towards change.

Regarding the idea itself, the Second World War/National Socialism/the Shoah are already taught in France, and at a younger age compared to what I have experienced in Germany (age 14). I still believe that most 10-year-olds lack maturity to understand this whole thing that remains incomprehensible for many adults.

After these history lessons in CM-2, many kids from my son’s class (who spoke little French back then) labelled him Hitler (for the rest of the school year). That’s how mature kids are at that age.

-------------------------------------------------

Ree, Tee, Vee,

I learnt that it is nice to call others X-ee. English is such a complex language with endless subtleties….

Lee :)

[Dominique]

Valentin,

"But of course, you can argue that the idea is bad or unnecessary, so why talk about it in the first place. [...] Wasn't it preferable that instead of all this outcry and frontal resistance, the opposers talk pragmatically and show it's not necessary, or not gonna work, and let it fade into oblivion?"

If only Sarko was as reasonable as you are, he would have acted "pragmatically" and let it fade into oblivion himself...

You seam to forget he is president and he is expected to act in, at least, an adult way, at best a stateman way.

Don't expect that from his opponents nor the people, they (we) just have not been elected... We are still allowed to be childish ;=).

Please, dont blame the society for reacting to stupid president's words. We are not in Cuba yet ...

[Daniel Strohl]

Dominique,

Re : your post dated 18 FEB - 22:32

Ok, Dominique, ok, I know that I have got an obsolete point of view, and may be not only regarding the above matter! On ne se refait pas!

What you say about Fadela Amara is funny. If she complies with the reputation of the Auvergnats, she is hard working, thrifty and sparing. The two latter adjectives are rather unusual to qualify a minister ... Hopefully they apply to her! It is not at all unlikely ...