Sarkozy surrenders under Carla effect.

Eight months into the Sarkozy era, France has just said adieu to la rupture, the clean break that was supposed to end its bad old ways.

Unpopular and facing an electoral thrashing next month, Super Sarko surrendered last night to the nation's taxi drivers. It took only a day of protests in Paris and around the country for the President to take fright and and abandon a plan to break the closed shop which protects their trade.

You will remember from last month that the taxi reform was one of the most emblematic of the 317 ideas that Jacques Attali presented, at Sarkozy's request, for opening up the economy and "liberating growth". 

Taxis are a minor industry, employing only about 50,000. Three months ago, Sarkozy faced down a damaging week-long strike by the far bigger army of public transport workers. His capitulation, performed by François Fillon, the Prime Minister, follows the time-honoured French practice of caving when a special interest takes to the street. There is no longer any chance that reform will be visited on the other closed trades on the Attali list. These include pharmacists, hairdressers and the legal profession.   

The defeat means that Paris will continue to suffer one of the worst cab shortages of any world city. It also shows how much authority Sarkozy has lost since public opinion turned against him this winter.

Everyone, including ministers in his own government, are blaming his slump on "the Carla effect". This is short-hand for the disastrous impact of his glitzy romance with Carla Bruni while the country has been buried in gloom.

Polls show that about 70 percent have been turned off by Sarkozy's display of his exploits, which culminated in his private marriage to the millionaire supermodel on Saturday. No-one would care much if Sarko was managing to deliver on his campaign promises to raise incomes. He is suffering from the clash between the grim mood and his image of lavish self-indulgence.

With his approval ratings down around 45 percent, Sarkozy has lost the backing of core voters of the centre-right and his Union for a Popular Movement is ready for debacle in national city elections next month. One odd consequence is the reversal of the usual roles played by President and Prime Minister. France's appointed premiers are expected to take the heat when things go wrong, deflecting unpopularity from the President. This time, Fillon, an understated, steady manager, is basking in popularity, with ratings 11 points above those of his showman boss. "Thank heaven we've got Fillon," a parliamentarian told me as he mourned the end of the Sarko magic. 

Sarkozy's enemies in his own camp are sticking the knife in over the Carla show. Jean-Louis Debré, head of the Constitutional Council and a former cabinet rival, said: "He should be careful not to desanctify his official function. When you have been given a mission by the people, you have show a certain restraint."
   
The tattered Socialist opposition have also leaped on Sarkozy's troubles. François Hollande, their leader, called Sarkozy self-obsessed. "What characterises Nicolas Sarkozy is his constant movement, his egotism and his narcissism," he said.

The President's staff, under attack for usurping the power of ministers, are insisting that Sarkozy has got the message and is throwing himself into the job. "There might have been some confusion," said Claude Guéant, his chief-of-staff. "But now with the marriage everything will be clearer."

We'll see. There is little sign that the new first lady will bring peace. The soap opera is still stirring morbid fascination.  Le Nouvel Observateur, not usually a purveyor of gossip, has made the running over the past couple of days. Sarkozy's Achilles' heel is his dependence on women, it said, noting how he came off the rails after Cécilia walked out last November. It also reported what everyone suspects, that Sarko rushed into his romance to spite Cécilia.

A week before he married Bruni, Sarko sent an SMS message to his ex-wife, saying "If you come back, I'll cancel everything," according to le Nouvel Obs. She did not reply.   

Bruni is also hot in the publishing world. Three fast-written, gossip-packed books on the new first lady are out this week. All recount her prodigious roll-call of celebrity lovers. In one, she is quoted as saying that she had always sought a man with his finger on the nuclear button. In all the books she is depicted as fiercely independent and a self-confessed predator towards men. "I feel jubilation every time I leave a man," she is quoted as saying in "Chronicle of a dangerous liaison" by Paul-Eric Blanrue and Chris Laffaille.

Le Parisien today apologised to Bruni for saying earlier this week that she emerged from these portraits as une garce -- a bitch. "Au nom du journal, je la prie de bien vouloir accepter nos excuses (In the name of the newspaper I ask her kindly to accept our apologies)," wrote Vincent Régnier, the editor-in-chief. Sarko may soon be wishing for the decorum of the old days, when no-one would have dreamed of using such a term for la première dame de France.

Comments

[Doremi]

" l'adieu to la rupture" could also be not blaming the woman when things go wrong, because praise is rare when things go right.
If a man repeatably chooses a bad mate he should get the blame for his terrible taste in women.
Could we give the " things would be so great, if it wasn't for the woman" a needed rest. Adam had free will when he took a bite of the apple, his Mrs did not twisted his harm. Boy, I don't miss Catholic hang-ups and guilt.
No wonder Carla 1st left.

[Richard Huxley]

My dad always told me to steer clear of women like that...I did and got myself a cute Brittany girl! :)

Shame about the taxis...

[Rocket]

Although I highly agree that Sarkozy is and will continue to cave in to special interests and "la rupture" will lose its meaning over time and it will be business as usual, you have to consider the point of view of the cab drivers. Too much politics involved in every decision.

Firstly, the system of regimented taxis was ill conceived from the get go. (another French corporatism) Taxi licenses cost up to 200K€ nowadays and to open up the profession with a magic wand means that all of these taxi drivers lose their " fonds de commerce" au jour de lendemain" Because no more license necessary to drive a cab. Thus FREE!

Today you buy a taxi license for 200K€ tomorrow it's worth nothing.

If someone has other info on the above, please let me know. Or if I'm missing something.

Attali should have put something in his proposals that would at least have protected the investments the taxi drivers had made. That's what these people get payed for...to be coherent. He didn't even see that coming. Yes Mr. Attali, we're all just jealous of you. I haven't had time to pour through the proposals. Some seem to be very rudimlentary.

It's funny to watch these one time "étatists" trying to understand capitalism. Well I'm sorry but in capitalism there is protection of the individual also.

Yes Paris needs more taxis but the drivers also must get off their sorry asses and out of the cafés as they wave you off should you interrupt them if they are drinking coffee. (No more smoking in the cafés at least)

I once tried to get a taxi and the driver ("m'envoyé chier" because he was eating a sandwich in his car) "Je suis en coupure" he said.

I don't respect these people anymore than the next guy but to strip them of their resale value is very unfair.

First thing M. Sarkozy should do is open the stores on Sunday and stay tough and not cave in. Then he should seriously start to cut into the social charges that employers pay and (really) get rid of the fat in the administration except for Dominique because we like him. He should also set an example and stop the flashy rich boy crap and not promise that he going to increase purchasing power when he can't. (It's the market that controls that)

Read the articles that have come out today about the French deficit. the German exporters are running circles around the French. It's easy to understand with labor relations based on suspicion in France and deadly social charges and very very difficult firing procedures etc. This is a reeducation that will take a generation not six months.

All of these Western newspapers that were saying in summer that France was changing is crap. They know nothing about France.

Now Charles:

"she is quoted as saying that she had always sought a man with his finger on the nuclear button."

That may be her code word for G-spot

[Daisy]

The problem is now Sarkozy is weakened, he will overcompensate and become brutal and dictatorial.

[Edward Johns]

France caving in Charles? The very idea!

[Robert Marchenoir]

The very fact that superior minds are suggesting that having more taxis, hairdressers and notaries might be a significant step to boost the country's economy is cause for concern.

Yes, the fact that the number of taxis in Paris has practically not changed since 1937 is a scandal. Yes, the licence price is horrendous. Yes, restrictions should be lifted so that the number of taxis could be increased several times.

Yes, the fact that Sarkozy is caving in to a handful of people without so much as a fight is appalling.

Yes, pharmacists earn preposterously high revenues supported by the state health insurance system. Yes, this is sucking up resources in a very unefficient way.

Yes, notaries charges are too high and make buying a house unnecessarily expensive (but most of these are taxes, not fees).

I'm not even aware of the issue related to hairdressers. I'm sure their number can't be limited. I understand however that a professional degree is compulsory to open shop -- this seems rather reasonable to me, and justified by the fact that hair-dying products are very toxic.

However, if we expect a significant amount of increased employment to come from taxis, hairdressers, notaries or even nannies -- do not forget nannies, the so-called "services à la personne" which are all the rage at official level nowadays, this really means we are in dire straits.

Never mind biotech, information technology, clean fuel technology, drug research, e-commerce... give us more taxis, please, we are French.

[Andy]

I was obviously completely fooled by the Attali report: I thought that it was about making suggestions for what was needed to relaunch business, and not about explaining how in detail these bright ideas were to be implemented.

[Robert Marchenoir]

As for the technicalities about taxis, and Rocket's question. I have not read Attali's report. I understand however he wants to give free licences to the people who have already requested one and who are stuck in the queue.

It would not reduce to zero the value of other people's licenses, but obviously it would rip them off of a portion of the legitimate and legal investment they have made, and for which they are paying interest.

I do not think the Attali commission addressed that problem.

However, I have read a suggestion by an anonymous commentator on a blog which I find brilliant.

Instead of giving free licenses to people who don't have one, give them to already licensed taxis.

Do we want to treble the number of taxis? Very well then, let us give two free licenses to each license holder, with the right to sell it at whatever price he likes and the market will support.

Not everybody would sell their rights -- some people would refuse to open the market to their own competition -- but a significant number of licence holders would. After all, this is the equivalent of the government giving you the right to print money.

Present day taxi drivers would get compensated, we would get more taxis, and the state would not spend a single euro.

I can't see any catch to this. Does anyone?

[dot king]

"Adam had free will when he took a bite of the apple, his Mrs did not twisted his harm."
(DOREMI)
Agreed, but she sealed the fate of all women for centuries to come on that dreadful day when Eve got Adam's supper ready for him . . .

(Only) a little off-topic but this reminds me of a school-story. The 6ème teacher was doing a "texte fondateur" which happened to be the Adam and Eve Story. The passage started: "Le serpent s'est adressé à Eve."
Just that, not ". . . parce que . . .," just that bald statement.

Question 1: "Pourquoi le serpent s'est-il adressé à Eve?"
Reading the text gave no reason at all, simple statement as above.

Answer to question 1: (written on board to be copied by the whole class): "Le serpent s'est adressé à Eve parce qu'elle était naïve et crédule."
QQQQUUUUU-OIOIOIOI????

J'ai toujours préfére l'idée dans laquelle le serpent s'adresse à Eve (dans cette fiction) parce que le Diable lui aurait dit qu'Adam était faible de caractère et suivrait aveuglement la réglementation en vigueur, tandis qu'Eve, elle, était plus audacieuse et ouverte d'esprit.
Et toc!

Si vous êtes de bons enfants, je pourrais vous raconter la leçon qui avait pour texte fondateur "La Lapidation de la Femme Adultère" - at least it'd be on topic!

[stephen cloughley]

There's something very tawdry and a bit depressing about this turn of events. I think it says more about the state of leadership in our Western democracies than France per se.
I am a Francophile Irishman living in the US (strange enough, I know!). I see exactly the same likely to happen if Obama gets into power here. For Sarko's "rupture" read Obama's "change". Same thing likely to happen, but less pronounced, with Hillary.

[GAG]

Another cowardly French government. Are there any courageous politicians left in France ? Is this another example the spirit of 1940 ?
GAG

[john o'doe]

The knives are out.
It's been downhill since he had the stupifying ineptitude (and political crassness) to sneeringly declare "qu'est-ce que vous voulez que je fasse, les caisses sont vides". From that moment it was clear for all to see that the emporer has no clothes.

[Rocket]

Robert

"Instead of giving free licenses to people who don't have one, give them to already licensed taxis."

Two problems in my mind with that

One - les ententes de prix entre chauffers au niveau de prix. (price fixing)I fear they would want to pay off their loans (for the license) in one clean swoop and sell at high price, unaffordable. (Not to free market IMHO) The spirit of the law should be to phase out the license not disguise it.

Two - License hoarding until prices drive it up by another 25 - 30%. It then becomes a bidding war and nothing is resolved. These taxi drivers are not the most entrepreneurial horde in the world. They can continue to live on what they earn now.

How about.

a tax credit for the price they paid for the license over 5 - 10 years in the form of income tax reduction, detax carburant and lowering of social charges etc. Each driver has an account to follow the evolution of their deductions. The resale of their license becomes then a dead letter and you can create all of the taxis you want. FREE

Unfortunately the system in France has always had protected professions after the war so you reap what you sow. The gov't (Was that Degaulle's idea, les corporatismes?) got everyone into this sh*t in the first place with that mentality and now they have to pay and get everyone out of it. Then we can practice capitalism in France rather than socialism. That's the price when you go from Socialistic mentality to free market

If someone can turn me on to how all of this corporatism got started in France and when, I would appreciate it.

[Rocket]

GAG

Read my first post.

John

"qu'est-ce que vous voulez que je fasse, les caisses sont vides".

I think he meant

"qu'est-ce que vous voulez que je fasse, mes bourses sont vides".

[Doremi]

Sunday big shops opening is overrated.
In the UK, the day once set for worship, spiritual nourishment and family/ friends / community life has been set aside for yet another day to buy stuff you don't really need and doing your bit for the economy. The total UK personal debt has hit £1.4 trillion at the end of November 2007. Credit is good, up to a point.

[Joan Arles]

It's truly amazing that Sarko folded just like that. After all those lyrical promises, he does not even resist the vested interest protestors as much as Chirac and Villepin and all the rest of them. Sarkozy must really be losing it. I have a bad feeling about all the Bruni business.

[Doremi]

Dot King,

Mrs did not twisted his harm."

Freudian slip, it should have been arm. The harm was on us.
I was sparred " catech" yet I still got told woman is to blame for the guy's downfall by my mother, who still call certain outfits " appel au viol". "Les hommes sont des faibles tu sais ma fille".

[Rocket]

Frenchman on the shuttle tonight. Leopld Eyharts. Once my student

Go Leo Go!

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/live_tv.html

[Sam Young]

I stated the following in this blog on Jan 22 (under "Bad time for French market lessons"):
"...Who seriously believes that the taxi industry will be liberalized?..."
Naturally, i would like to flatter myself that i am some sort of prescient seer. But of course, in reality, it was entirely predictable.
Frankly, would even Chirac have caved in so quickly? NS is going to end up a figure of derision for right-wingers (like myself and readers of the Le Figaro whose online comments yesterday left one in no doubt) and left-wingers.
By a delightful coincidence the "Cour des Comptes" (which audits the State accounts)reached the same conclusion this year as last year (and next year, and etc.); namely, that the State have no managerial sense and waste billions each year.
As Cromwell might have said to the French economy: "Sink, for the love of God, Sink".

[dot king]

This couple are a pair of "m'as-tu vu" exhibitionists - as shallow as can be imagined under the gloss, I'm afraid.
He wanted power, she wanted a man with power, they've each got what they wanted. End of story I think.

[dot king]

"yet I still got told woman is to blame for the guy's downfall by my mother," (doremi)

yeh, me too, with the difference that i didn't believe it, even then

[Daniel Strohl]

Charles,

""If you come back, I'll cancel everything," according to le Nouvel Obs."

Charles, do you by (mal)chance hold le Nouvel Obs for le Nouveau Testament? - LOL!

What strikes me with our various journalists is that they make a big fuss with "la saga de Sarkozy et Carla" and almost nobody bothers to speak about some apparently unimportant matters like le traité européen, le déficit commercial record and so on.

PS : a few days ago, I got a subscription offer from le Nouvel Obs. Due to some strange premonition, I threw it right away in the dust bin. Normally, I have no problem to read papers whose ideas are not the same as mine.

[Sam Young]

To Robert Marchenoir:
I think the situation in France as regards hairdressers is:
You have the "CAP" = Certificat d’aptitude professionnelle.
And then you have the BP: Brevet professionnel.
The BP is equal to a 2-year post CAP degree completed through apprenticeship or continuing education.
At the moment, you need to have a BP to open shop as a hairdresser. Attali wants to allow CAP holders to be able to open shop without having to get a BP.

Disclaimer: as far as i am aware.

[Valentin]

Some people even go as far as to compare the French presidential couple with the Kennedies.
It had been already done when Cécilia was First Lady, it is so much more now that Carla is as glamour as Jackie Kennedy was at the time.
Others don't go as far back in time and limit to comparing Carla with our dear Lady Di, whose taste for media exposure has also been famous.

Given the worldwide approval and fine image both Jackie and Diana enjoyed (despite their rather.. uhm.. shacky love lifes :) ),
well, I find those comparisons quite flattering.

[Valentin]

According to the French daily Le Monde, president Sarkozy has filed a complaint with the criminal court against the website Nouvel Obs for use of fake information.

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-34228687@7-37,0.html

The good side is that this will give the newspaper an opportunity to prove the SMS message was real. The bad side: this is likely to bring us yet more Sarko posts from CB.
Oh well. Life.

[Very interesting Valentin. Sarko is the first president of the fifth republic to take legal action against the press. The others were above it. I agree, it will be fun to see the Nouvel Obs producing the evidence for its story. In the meantime, I'm off to the Cevennes for the weekend. CB]

[Valentin]

It seems the news about Sarko "surrendering" have been somewhat exaggerated.
According to this story from the JDD magazine, the Attali report is not yet in the dustbin, and the president declared his will to reform the regulated trades.

http://www.lejdd.fr/cmc/societe/20086/taxis-quiproquo-avec-l-elysee_93153.html

"Une réunion lors de laquelle le chef de l'Etat a, selon son porte-parole David Martinon, rappelé la nécessité de réformer la profession. "Les taxis ne seront pas spoliés, mais il faut se réformer", a-t-il ainsi déclaré.
Dans un communiqué diffusé peu après cette rencontre, l'Elysée insiste sur cette volonté de réforme, précisant que sont toujours "sur la table" des discussions "les propositions formulées par la commission" Attali. "

[Valentin]

I would say Sarkozy's legal action is less "against the press" and more against gossip trespassing any common sense (as well as legal) limits.
It was refreshing to see Philippe Val (of the weekly Charlie Hebdo) and everybody else on iTele NPPDM show yesterday evening agreeing that that (publishing the sms story) is just not done.

Well then, enjoy your Cevennes weekend ! :)

[concedo nulli]

I once was shown a copy of a very thick book which wanted to prove that the downfall of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette was engineered with a lot of help from Engand. I never bothered to read it. Why do the non-French people on this blog get so excited about things French? Now woman's power in France is resented. I, for one, believe it's due to a series of historical circumstances rather than to the teachings of the Church. Catherine de Médicis, Marie de Médicis, Mme de Maintenon, Mme de Pompadour, Marie-Antoinette, they all attracted hatred because they wielded power. The one tremendous and lasting "rupture" would have been for Segolene Royal to be elected. What can a President vulnerable to women hope to achieve in a country where women are loathed. That may be why his predecessors hid their lady-loves, and also because being "pure French" they felt so arrogantly superior to womenfolk. Again I maintain this has little to do with the teachings of the Church. The French, anyway, have been estranged from Roman Catholicism for generations and so on and so on. In the last analysis I like NS because he is like me a "petit français de sang mêlé" who would so much like to get rid of what is horrid in the French inheritance.

[EYGH]

Rocket,

"Read the articles that have come out today about the French deficit. the German exporters are running circles around the French. It's easy to understand with labor relations based on suspicion in France and deadly social charges and very very difficult firing procedures etc. This is a reeducation that will take a generation not six months"

German exporters are running circles around a lot of people. Congrats to them.

Contrary to what you write, I believe that German workers are pretty protected (more like in France than in the US).

One thing is sure, if there are economical clues to be taken by our elites there are in Germany rather than in the UK or the US.

Sam Young,

"As Cromwell might have said to the French economy: "Sink, for the love of God, Sink"."

If France's economy is sinking it is doing so in "good" company. UK and US trade and budget deficits numbers anyone ?

[Daniel Strohl]

Doremi,

"The total UK personal debt has hit £1.4 trillion at the end of November 2007. Credit is good, up to a point".

Do you know the figure for the total French personal debt ? It would be interesting to make a comparison. Our debt is probably (and hopefully) lower, but I may be wrong.

The whole economy is built on credit and lives with credit - and probably with much too much of it. But it is difficult to slow down - it is not easy either to brake (successfully!) on black ice ...

[Daniel Strohl]

Rocket,

"Leopld Eyharts. Once my student"

Congratulations, Rocket! I did hear Leopold saying a few words in English this evening on TV. But of course, and as usual, one heard almost only the translation.

If the TV or radio people were a little bit more intelligent, they would let the listeners hear at least one full original sentence - the voice of a person is almost as important as his or her face if one wants to have an idea about his or her personality.

[Marguerite.]

Il etait drole le slogan que criaient les chauffeurs de taxis pendant la manifestation "Attali, reste dans ton lit. Sarko, pas dans mon tacot".
J'aurais bien aime que Paris devienne, comme Londres, New York ou Tokyo, une ville ou l'on attrape un taxi au vol des qu'on en a besoin. Dommage que Sarko ait capitule !

[christopher muir]

Could it be that in a year's time, Sarkozy - during a valedictory speech - will echo Gorbachev's words: "My life's work has been accomplished. I did all that I could."

[Emlyn]

The French, as usual, are unable to make any sort of communal effort in a crisis and blame anyone - the government, the President or their neighbours - except themselves. In any case, most French people live very nicely, thank you very much: the shortest working hours and the longest holidays in the Norhtern hemisphere (in the world?) and as long as their pockets and bellies are full they don't give a dam for the rest.

[EYGH]

Re French economy history

An interesting and serious analysis that you won't find in supposedly specialised competent press oulets (anglo or French ones) :

France vs UK :

http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2007/9/10/9417/13559

France vs Germany :

http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2007/12/3/9556/37757

One thing is sure, Germans know better.

Despite their very good export numbers they are not the ones to constantly bash the French economy.

As a French citizen, I'm pretty worried at the apparent ignorance of too many of our political/economical elites who ignore French economical realities (strengths and weaknesses) and are so taken with the anglo-american (or whatever) models.

As an aside and to go back to the taxi crisis, I'm surprised that nobody has remarked on the fact that French corporatism is a rather right leaning phenomenon in France. That may explain Sarko's apparent "reculade" before the "élections municipales".

I'll try to find comparative figures on consummer's debt.

[dot king]

Concerning the press "first" - this pursuing of the Nouvel Obs over the alleged SMS - a radio chroniqueur has just observed: "j'annule tout"
mais qu'est-ce qu'il veut dire par "tout"?

[Pierre Bernardi]

On the front page of today's lefigaro.fr, Sarkozy "denies" his obsession with Cecilia, the government "denies" Christine Lagarde's decision to retire and the army "denies" taking part in the fighting in Tchad. That's an awful lot of denial.

What next:
- Taxis "deny" refusing to take passengers
- Soc Gén "denies" carelessness
- Zoe's Ark "denies" the children it tried to bring out were under 16
- Alstom "denies" its new TGV has a big nose?

[Doremi]

dot king

I believed until I read Freud and later Karen Horney and Camille Paglia.

Daniel Strohl

From what I have read private debt is 40% of the GDP (€bn 1,794 2006) from 26% to 40% in 12 years but the state's is 63%. And it's not even people wanting the latest Ipod or a holiday in Ibiza, for plenty it's just to eat.

[richard jones]

The moment that monument to the petty corruption of marble halls in a development bank that did no development - Jacques Attali (he must have one over the vulpine Mitterand to have got the job - for which Pohl was a candidate) - re-enters government you know for sure that things are going down the tubes. I want to hear what Sarkozy wants to do not some one-eyed socialist misfit.
I want to see a 'doable' plan from Sarkozy for which he can be held accountable not some plan that implicitly carries someone else to blame. I want to see France come clean on SocGen and admit they let other 'bourses' pay for their own ENArque ineptitude.
I want to see France behave like a true EU member and not inhibit anybody at all from taking over SocGen - or stop taking over other countries assets.
I want to see France reform not France deform which is all that is happening now. 6 more months of this and France will be worse than the Chiraquian Middle Ages.
Bruni is not mentioned because she has nothing to do with it, Sarko was elected to do a job she wasn't.

[Pierre Bernardi]

EYGH, my sole criticism (as some will remember) is a comparison based on PPP: "le PIB par tête est passé de 78% à 72% de celui des américains sur la période, en moyenne". If you use current exchange rates (real money, in other words, not someone's estimate of what a coke costs at the Closerie des Lilas, or how many burgers you need a day to survive), you get 80% in 2006 (France: €28,1k vs US: €35,1k), at an average exchange rate of €1=$1,25.

[EYGH]

Very interesting article (in French) on the debt in France :

http://www.lyc-arsonval-brive.ac-limoges.fr/secosoc/article.php3?id_article=367

[Daniel Strohl]

Doremi,

Thanks for the info. I was aware of the 63 % state debt, but had no clear idea of the private debt.

We don't contribute to the latter - I don't own an Ipod (even an ancient one!) and regarding holiday, we stay in France, if we go on holiday - may be 10 days in the last 30 months.

More seriously : most elderly people like myself still have the reflex to spend money for non indispensable items only if it has been spared in advance - no credit. Of course, this is no good for modern "economy".

Eygh,

Interesting links indeed. I will have a thorough look at them.

[Rocket]

Daniel

You are not elderly

Pour moi t'es éternellement jeune

[Guillaume]

I'm laughing loudly about all those ppl comparing Sarko to Thatcher when he was elected.
Well, far from it...As usually nothing changes: street (and corporatism in a broad sense) ordered, governement caves in shamely...That is "le changement dans la continuité"!!!

[Rocket]

Bah! Humbug!

France's national debt is small potatoes. Anyone want to see a debt that has real balls?

http://www.babylontoday.com/national_debt_clock.htm

That's 9 trillion! and growing as you watch!

[Barrie Garfinkel]

Isn't this what the French do best?
They back down.......
Capitulate ..........
Surrender ...........
All the same.

[Daniel Strohl]

Guillaume,

"governement caves in shamely..."

May be they will "cave out" (energetically) after the élections municipales...

Rocket,

"Pour moi t'es éternellement jeune"

Thanks for the compliment! Aujourd'hui, nous avons invité des amis (et anciens voisins) à déjeuner. Nous sommes huit en tout - l'âge des convives va de 64 à 80 ans. On ne peut pas parler de "Jeune Garde" - LOL !

[Daniel Strohl]

Andy,

"and not about explaining how in detail..."

And if one looks closer at details, one is likely to find there some gross errors - for instance, there are really many hairdressers everywhere; many of them are already more or less out of business due to lack of customers able to pay.

[Charles Berliner]

Can middle-aged mademoiselles turn into moral creatures overnight? To quote Madonna in her year of marriage, "I've gone through all my sexual rebellion and don't need to do it any more.” And here’s a better one: “I thank God every day that I married a man who made me think.” Well, Guy Ritchie may not be in the Raphael Enthoven class--but you know the case of the quarterback who looked like a rocket scientist to Jessica Simpson. ('The French President's Woman' at www.roughgang.com)

[Valentin]

"You are not elderly"

... says Rocket, who's dangerously close of the age of 60 himself ! :D

Barrie,

if you're american, I will remind you the shameful end of the Vietnam war, and how China threw the US out of the south-east Asia.
If you're English, you may recall the equally shameful affair of the Suez, where the proud Empire was shown his true place in the world: a small island at the extreme corner of the Eurasian continent.

[thinknoworpaylater]

DANIEL S. - As Doremi says : Its not even people wanting the latest ipod or a holiday in Ibiza forplenty its just to eat. Much as I like your archaicising style ( Im pretty old too) of course we oldies spend less on non-indespensible items - because we already have many of them ( houses , old cars etc.) And if many hair-dressers are out of business *due to lack of business* as you say that only proves Doremis point: there is real poverty amongst a younger generation in France - so - no visits to the hair-dresser. Creditmay be paying for essentials as Doremi says - not for non-essentials. Also the French corporatisms are usually U.M.P.-Sarkozy voters. Protectionist to the last. Its not only the left/unions who are going to prevent Sarkos famous rupture. The Right will also have its way.

[qwerty]

Airy Routier of Nouvel Obs defending the anonymity of his "sources" for the SMS article:

Quite obviously the only people who would know of the existence of the SMS (if it existed indeed) are: Cecilia, Nicolas, or a very close member of their entourage. Cecilia's revenge? A traitor amongst her (or his) closest little coterie? Who else would have knowledge of an SMS, these are messages that pass fleetingly in the memory of a mobile...

Airy Routier seems to have the most extensive inside knowledge in a large number of scandals (Elf, Frégates de Taiwan, Edouard Stern....), all the info at his fingertips so he can trot it out and write a bestseller every time something breaks out in the open. Not quite the style of Nouvel Obs, I used to think, but I imagine they're as hypocritical as everyone else.

Anyway, who cares. I heard on France Info this morning that in the US, Sarkozy is now fast sinking into oblivion. They cannot understand what he's getting at (as we can't), so have entirely dismissed him as a topic.

Sarkozy who?

[azloon]

it's probably just me, but the blog seems to be ailing bit from lethagy and bothesome, endless internecine tussling.

in recognition of this temporary malady, i humbly offer the following youtube recording, unrelated to anything discussed here, of Aretha Franklin singing Nessun Dorma at the 1998 Grammy awards, after Pavriotti, in typical fashion, backed out at the last moment. this is also dedicated to CB relaxing in his beloved cevennes hills.

hail to the Queen of Soul (royalty that puts to shame anything europe has ever devised):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de2sTZHBp1w&feature=related

[EYGH]

For those really interested in France's economy rather than the usual bashing crap, below is an article related to the franco-german trade gap :

http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2007/1/31/104116/318

Also an interesting site for those who can read French :

http://www.alternatives-economiques.fr/

[Graham Palmer]

Rocket: Peggy Whitson, the commander of the ISS has a Ph.D. in Biochemistry. I was on her thesis committee.

Its a small world!

[GAG]

Valentin

Maybe I’m missing something, but wasn’t the invasion of Suez a Franco British operation ? So to use your words ‘a small island at the extreme corner of the Eurasian continent.’ allied to a large insignificant nation at the centre of the Eurasian continent.
GAG

[Rocket]

Valentin

"You are not elderly"

... says Rocket, who's dangerously close of the age of 60 himself ! :D

Hi hi hi! not yet but we're all on the same highway to hell whatever the age!

[dot king]

I was really saving this up as an anti-St Vantentine's day link, but i can see Azloon needs it straight away . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzEadbTCKDA

[dot king]

"Barrie,

if you're american, I will remind you the shameful end of the Vietnam war, and how China threw the US out of the south-east Asia.
If you're English, you may recall the equally shameful affair of the Suez, where the proud Empire was shown his true place in the world: a small island at the extreme corner of the Eurasian continent."
(Valentin)

Showing once again what a really nasty piece of work he is. A piece of paper to say he is what he isn't and he can insult who he want when he wants.
Listen, whatever nationality, age, sex you are, Valentin is BETTER than you are, Valentin isn't a human being, Valentin is an insult generator. He has very little of interest or intelligence to say, so he minces about dishing out insults.
It's a wonder there's anyone left on this blog FGS!

[Valentin]

Corporatisms are not altogether a bad thing, except when they act reactionary, as in, "may the world sink, dont you DARE touch my privileges".

Unfortunately, they're neither right, nor left, but trade unions having as sole purpose defending their members.
Teacher or railway unions are called "extreme left" not because they're corporatist, but because of their connection with the communist parties.
That aside, there's no difference between them, and lawyer, or taxi trade unions.

[Daniel Strohl]

Thinknoworpaylater,

Of course, I didn't miss the points made by Doremi. It is difficult to contradict them.

"Also the French corporatisms are usually U.M.P.-Sarkozy voters."

If this is probably true for taxis, pharmacists and a few other corporations, it is hardly true for the CGT (for instance at the SNCF or le Livre CGT) and some Education Nationale unions as well. It is difficult to find out more conservative people in France, but up to now, it didn't strike me that they are Sarkozy storm troopers ...

[Daniel Strohl]

"I'm laughing loudly about all those ppl comparing Sarko to Thatcher when he was elected" (Guillaume).

Guillaume, may be you should try to remember the time it took Mrs. Thatcher to get measurable results, notwithstanding her undisputable energy and courage. And our British friends - at least those constantly being busy to teach us lessons - should not forget the state of the UK when Mrs.Thatcher took over. As far as I remember, it was even worse than the state of France a few months ago. May be I am wrong - if this is the case, please feel free to correct me.

[christopher muir]

It seems odd to me that Sarkozy as a former interior minister should put his privacy in danger with SMS. You'd imagine that he'd be a control freak over security matters and not take such risks - if in fact he does use the device like a careless teenager. After all, we keep on discovering how insecure electronic communications can be. Have just watched a pretty mediocre anti-Sarko/Bruni video on YouTube - apparently made in France (not many hits yet), it will no doubt add somewhat to the prevailing peevishness in the palace.

[dot king]

"Some people even go as far as to compare the French presidential couple with the Kennedies.
It had been already done when Cécilia was First Lady, it is so much more now that Carla is as glamour as Jackie Kennedy was at the time.
Others don't go as far back in time and limit to comparing Carla with our dear Lady Di, whose taste for media exposure has also been famous."

Carla Bruni cannot be compared either to Jackie Kennedy or Princess Diana. (Or even Cécilia Sarkozy except for the physical similarities.)

Jackie Kennedy was married to a serial and very public philanderer. She must have suffered, but she stayed, supported her husband, publicly at least and behaved with dignity at all times. She was admired and "loved" fairly generally throughout the world. She gave the USA a good image abroad. And she didn't pose for nude photographs.

When Princess Diana became engaged to prince Charles, she was what, 19 years old? Too young at any rate to realise that she was "being married", had been "chosen" for that marriage, which already had another couple operating within it.
She must have been devastated to realise, so young, that (i) she wasn't, and never had been, loved by her husband, and (ii) that her only rôle was to provide an heir to the throne.
I will agree that as, and after her marriage broke up, she used the media to wreak a spot of revenge, by that time she had the paparazzi eating out of her hand, and the gossip-paper-reading public loved her - again all over the world, even my odious ex-boss (a French Republican) was heard to say "elle était ma princesse préférée" when news of her death broke.
And this use of her public image at least served to highlight the hypocrisy of royal reserve and protocol, which changed from then on.

But Diana also used the press for positive reasons, using her status and image to campaign against (for example) anti-personnel mines and to fight prejudice against AIDS sufferers. And she never posed for nude pictures.

If someone can list for me any humanitarian cause that Carla Bruni espouses or anything she does that makes her worthy of any comparison with Jackie Kennedy or Princess Diana, then I'll be happy to see it.

Carla Sarkozy-Bruni or whatever she is to be called now, is a grown woman who behaves like a selfish and self-seeking teenager. She will do nothing to improve France's image abroad, she has a very long road to travel before she is loved and/or admired in the same way. Simpering at a camera and taking your clothes off aren't enough - she isn't in the same league.

Both Jackie Kennedy and Princess Diana came into the public domain as young women through their marriages to highly visible men, neither was dragging a bad reputation behind her, neither had a long list of "prestigious" rejected lovers to be openly boasted about.
Jackie Kennedy and Princess Diana don't deserve this comparison.

[EYGH]

Daniel,

I wish French citizens would stop comparing France's present situation with the the UK one pre Thatcher because it is simply absurd.

I personnaly can't understand this Thatcher mania. She did good things but also pretty bad ones. And the structure of the UK economy is not that great.

Dot King,

We understand you dislike Valentin. You may have perfectly acceptable reasons.

But, from your reaction above to Valentin's somewhat mellow reply to Barrie's derogatory (to say the least) comment on France, one may think you really have a selective reading of insults.

What Barrie says is alright but not Valentin's reply which by the way is not historically inaccurate ?

France and the French altogether are on the receiving end of almost constant critic/bashing here. It doesn't seem to bother you very much.

The insulting comments comming from different posters here - and I don't mean only Rocket for he, at least, is not constantly on the bashing mode and can be quite interesting and even accurate at times - are way more outrageous and even definitely of the pure "racism" kind.

I'm not attacking you because you are one of the too few ones who is able to put quite fair input, I'm simply pointing out at the obvious double standard.

Just imagine how you would feel if Richard Jones or Sam Young comments for example were directed at Brits or Britain.

Unless you believe, along with most anglos here since I haven't seen much outrage from the anglo camp, that those insults, derogatory comments, ... are just the expression of the truth ?

Hasn't it crossed your mind that there is a big problem here and that the problem's source may not be the French after all, except the ones indulging in self-hate ?

Querty,

What nationality are you ?

[John Gregory Flinn]

Although it may be unwise to base Sakozy's current demise on some service industries - or a woman, it does seem that a trend has begun which he may not arrest.

Whether it is his 'rupture', Obama's change or Blair's 'better days are here', France is experiencing that malaise common to western democracies – the inability to effect real and often necessary political change.

France, and other Democracies may have reached a sort of plateau or limit, where their politics have become moribund, or stuck in a rut. Change is measured in millimetres or shades of red. And has become confined to a narrow spectrum of doctrines overtly and almost only defined by the human rights' legislation, but driven by day-to-day exingencies - often of the wests' own making.

Voltaire's Dr Pangloss would have recognised this as a modern variant on the dogma of his day - 'Divine Will'. Because there is an unwritten but powerful (panglossian) perception that western politics should remain in such a narrow spectrum eschewing all radical concepts that may emerge from left or right.
As well as Voltaire, there is a more modern example usually referred to as John Pilger's Russian joke, which goes as follows ;-
“During the Cold War, a group of Russian journalists toured the
United States. On the final day of their visit, they were asked by
their hosts for their impressions. ‘I have to tell you,’ said their
spokesman, ‘that we were astonished to find after reading all the
newspapers and watching TV, that all the opinions on all the vital
issues were by and large, the same. To get that result in our
country, we imprison people, we tear out their fingernails. Here,
you don't have that. What's the secret? How do you do it?”

Radical parties (of the right) are gaining parliamentary representation especially in Europe (e.g.Switzerland, Holland and Belgium), but on the verge of power they find a 'cordon sanitaire' erected by the other centrist groups who 'rule their policies as being outside the accepted norms'.

Modern governments are under pressure from welfare dependency, state bureaucracy, socialised medicine, poor social housing, de-industrialisation and export of jobs etc. Most of which develop a symbiosis into, and with those other problems of modern democracies - feckless pregnancy and child support, crime, drugs, poor education achievements and generations of individuals/families who are simply unemployable.
Thus, there is a solid core of the economy that has its interests stubbornly rooted in the status quo. To which the state can only pander, and plead lest it loses popularity, or offends the voter and/or those organised pressure groups including the Trade Unions, environmentalists, the Church, Islam etc., but hardly ever the Taxpayer who is continuously and mercilessly abused!

The Keynesian economic tenets of the thirties have built-in a small but steady inflation into the finances of modern economies that has sustained the public purse as long as the ability to raise prices on the back of economic growth remains.

However, should the imminent recession cause all, or most western economies to contract, it may be that necessary change is forced on administrations to enable them to cope and even survive.

[Doremi]

Daniel Strohl
Thatcher: I missed her years, I landed towards the end.
Depending to whom you speak to, she's a saviour or a she-devil, Mitterrand described her as “the lips of Marilyn Monroe and the eyes of Caligula”, others Reagan in a dress. She changed Britain by modernising it. Plenty were better off thanks to her but for others the change was brutal and devastating, with high unemployment, - up north many don't appear in the un-employed section but in the long - sick section, economic bubbles, the disappearance of the manufacturing industry, deregulation of financial markets, economic liberalism, greed and a growing gulf between the rich and poor. Happy with her legacy or not, Britain is more prosperous ( if you can live with debt, are not losing sleep over it and don't use the railways).
Don't mention her name in Scotland without spitting or proudly in an English accent as you will get you a free trip to the ER. Actually an English accent is bad for your health in Scotland, lots of people attribute this to a visceral hate for her. Blair is seen as her heir, which is ironic since we are told he is Labour.

Maybe because you belong to a generation who has worked without enforced breaks. You are supposed to have 3 months salary in the bank for safety, many who don't, use a credit card. When I was made redundant and did some temping I just lived on my overdraft for a while. In the UK many young people have access to a house thanks to their parents and the money they have made on the property boom. So you have a 25 year old with £ 300 000 mortgage and the necessity to rent the spare room at exorbitant price to cover it. If your parents are poor or barely getting by themselves, they can't help you.

EYGH
140% of the GDI? More than in the US, I curse the egg-head who put graphs in economy but things looks bad.

[Valentin]

EYGH,
Your links are quite interesting indeed, especially regarding the explanation of why France runs a current account deficit, while Germany runs a surplus. Things may not be as bad as they look.

GAG
"Maybe I’m missing something, but wasn’t the invasion of Suez a Franco British operation"

You're not missing anything, France was humiliated too in the Suez affair. Less than Britain though, IMO: France never had the global span colonial Britain had, nor the ambition or the pretension to be a planetary-level Empire. We fell from a smaller chair, so to speak :)

The point was that everybody's been in a humiliating position at some point; the idiocies about the "surrender-monkey French" have little historical base.

[Valentin]

lol unfortunately for Dorothy, I stopped trading insults. Her bashing is not much different from (or more vicious than) what we saw from some american posters before. Only shows everyone's level.
My post is historical truth and setting things straight: France had glorious moments and some less so, like any other nation; no one is entitled to libel or give lessons.

[azloon]

[Anyway, who cares. I heard on France Info this morning that in the US, Sarkozy is now fast sinking into oblivion. They cannot understand what he's getting at (as we can't), so have entirely dismissed him as a topic.] Qwerty

i am afraid sarko was never much of a topic in the u.s., except perhaps for the 24 hours following his address to the u.s. congress in which he blew a lot of hot air up our asses. we liked that.

i would guess that fewer than one in fifty americans could name the president of france. one in twenty, if that many, could name the president of mexico or the prime minister of canada. (queen elizabeth?....now that's a different matter).

to defenders of Jerome Kerviel: i am happy to note that this 'non-criminal' is now in police custody along with a fellow conspirator. yeah, sure, Pierre Bernardi, simply an 'internal bank matter' to which not even an 'attempted fraud' charge could 'stick.' a 'true french hero.'

DOT -- i just can't get enough of the talking heads...mmm...sweetheart....

[Daniel Strohl]

Eygh,

"I wish French citizens would stop comparing France's present situation with the UK one pre Thatcher because it is simply absurd.

Eygh, I am not a panegyrist of Mrs.Thatcher - nevertheless, she undertook some difficult and unpopular tasks (for ex. regarding the unions and the shop stewards) which were necessary and which were not reversed by the Premiers who succeeded her.

If our politicians continue "de se payer de bonnes paroles et de renvoyer les réformes aux calendes grecques", we will continue to regress economically slowly, but surely. And this will hit much more the ordinary people than the capitalists et autres ploutocrates - LOL !

"And the structure of the UK economy is not that great."

I suppose that they have even less manufacturing industry left than we have. This is no good.

"Hasn't it crossed your mind that there is a big problem here and that the problem's source may not be the French after all"

This reminds me of a remark from an "agent immobilier" : "Les gens croient qu'en déménageant et en changeant de région, ils évacuent leurs problèmes. Mais les problèmes suivent". (Ce n'est sans doute pas du mot à mot, mais j'ai bien gardé à l'esprit le sens de la remarque).

John Gregory,

Very interesting post - very far of the almost "bidet" level of some commentaries - of course, I exaggerate a little bit, as usual - LOL!

"it may be that necessary change is forced on administrations to enable them to cope and even survive"

I would say : "ça leur pend au nez" - sorry, I couldn't resist the colloquialism!

[dot king]

EYGH, re your comments on my post about Valentin's (typical) reaction to Barrie's post.
Whether Barrie or Valentin was right or wrong, was not my point. My reaction was in the way of the "last straw" effect.

If you want to put it that way, then "bashing" Valentin isn't French-bashing as he is hardly representative of the French nation. He is, on this blog at least, no more than a caricature of what he thinks a Frenchman is. (I've been here over 16 years and have lots of French friends, colleagues, neighbours, acquaintances. None of them is anything like Valentin. Some are like Daniel, some like Dominique, or Marguerite (sorry if I've missed anyone, but none like him.)

On another thread he had added a snide comment about me, not to me, but about me, addressed to Daniel.

Some days previously he "welcomed" a couple of newcomers to the blog as if he were the official welcomer, and thereby gave the blog an aura of a private club where you have to be recommended, receive his blessing, in order to enter.
And he also had the gaul to give the newcomers an analysis other bloggers' personalities, mine amongst them. HIS view of course - to hell with any truth or fairness.
I find this HIGHLY objectionable.

Does anyone else say "hi such-a-name, welcome to the blog, you'll find Valentin's a rather queer sort of a bloke with all sorts of high-handed, condescending remarks which he hopes to pass off as cleverness, but don't worry, in real life he's nice and conciliatory" (sic).

No, no-one would dream of doing this, but Valentin does it and frankly, I'm SICK TO BLEEDING DEATH of it.
So when once again I caught him out in (i) sniping at me quite gratuitously, then (ii) covering all his possibilities of attack by saying "if you're American, this" and "if you're British, that" before making his ersatz French sarcastic comment to Barrie, then I felt I would have a go at him.

EYGH, have you considered that Valentin constantly labels the rest of us, or some of us, yet remains very silent as to his origins? He usually couches his remarks in terms such as "lefties" or "Royal supporters" when he has no grounds for doing so.
Well, we can all play that game, we who have nothing to hide.
I've been Valentin's particular target on more than one occasion, not so long ago more than one blogger told him to get off my back after days of shrill insults over the word "gangster".
There's no point either in saying you won't answer him, he simply keeps sniping - even if the person concerned has left the blog. It's low and unworthy behaviour.
And I felt it was time someone brought it out into the light and named it. So I have.

Next step, just watch for it, he'll claim he's been "the victim" all along - same tactic as all his kind (in saying this, I imitate his style, you understand, as well as stating a truth).

It was, if you like, a personal attack in return for many personal attacks.

[Rocket]

Dot

Don't worry. That was just Valentin comparing Bruni with Jackie Kennedy and Princess Di.

I don't think that the level headed French person would have made this comparison.

We all know here he is coming from.

[dot king]

"Just imagine how you would feel if Richard Jones or Sam Young comments for example were directed at Brits or Britain."
EYGH - I wasn't aware that these two gents were American. In fact I've always thought Sam was British because of the betting talk which I associate with a certain type of Englishman. but it doesn't matter.

Unless someone makes an issue of nationality, then I'm hardly aware of it - I don't even wonder. Of course some bloggers' written English gives them away as not being first-language anglophones, but whether someone is French, English, German, American, Canadian, Chinese, Russian, whatever, shouldn't make a difference in the way they talk to each other and exchange views.

But sooner or later someone takes the "discussion" into an adversarial pattern and you can end up in a "discussion" you don't want to be in.
If you withdraw, either by saying you're withdrawing or by just stopping contributing, then there are people around who will continue to attack.

Thank you for noticing that I don't go in for routine French-bashing, I live here, i haven't been back to the UK since 1991 and feel more at home in France than I did in the UK. so I know a bit about France, its way of life, some of what we might call "national characteristics", but I wouldn't dream of joining in a financial or capitalism debate - I don't know anything about it. Nor would I argue with a financialist about his/her knowledge of markets, finance etc, or tell anyone I knew more about their job than they do.

IMO a blog should be about an exchange of ideas, it should be a source of something positive, a bonus to the interesting things outside of it. This blog is often a merciless arena. The violence comes in all forms, direct and loud, or as insidious whining, like a tiresome gnat.
I've never taken any negative notice of the colour of anyone's skin or eyes or hair, their nationality is a richness along with the rest as far as I'm concerned.
I've never screeched here "I'm British!" the way that Valentin (just for example) shrieks about being French. In the end who cares? And if so, why?

[Rocket]

I only posted once Charles. Why do I do deserve two of the same posts. Am I that important?

[qwerty]

EYGH, thanks for the Eurotrib link. I'm neither French nor anglo-saxon, but basically those are the two cultures that have formed me, and I tend to be critical about both. Mais qui aime bien châtie bien. Right now I'm fed up with the French resistance to change and thinking of moving somewhere where life isn't taken quite so seriously, but then what would I do without the French savoir-vivre? Just a couple of hours of American food commercials or predicating on TV, and I'd want to come home again...

Azloon, I think you're right about Sarko getting no press (indeed, France getting no press) in the US. It has been said to me by French friends working in NY (so even New York....).

[dot king]

"Les gens croient qu'en déménageant et en changeant de région, ils évacuent leurs problèmes. Mais les problèmes suivent". (Ce n'est sans doute pas du mot à mot, mais j'ai bien gardé à l'esprit le sens de la remarque)."
(Daniel)
From experience Daniel, I can tell you that this applies equally to lots of étrangers coming to settle in France - the ones with money enough to buy a property I mean. Anything, from trying to repair an ailing marriage, escape a drink problem (for gawd's sake!), to thinking you can do something low- budget (chambres d'hôte, camping à la ferme) and make good without needing to speak French. It occasionally works (apart from the drink-problem problems!), but mostly it falls apart pretty quickly. Whatever you do, you need "your head together". ;)

[Valentin]

Rocket,
I was speaking about Lady Di's love life. Compared to that, Carla Bruni is a little girl. Compared to the scandal the British royal family got involved in, Bruni&Sarko are a couple of poor dilletants.
Facts stand Rocket, despite any demeaning or bashing you may see fit to spoil us with.

Dorothy,
Would you get off my ankle and get a life instead? I won't even waste time with your hate post. The paramount idea is that you pass everything I say through the filter of your own state of mind.
When I'm ironical, I'm not demeaning, when I welcome someone, I do it from a purely friendly impulse, when I dont agree with a post, I dont hate its author. If I defend the French, I do it against the usual bashing, and I'm not the only one. Stop inventing monsters and singling me out: I couldn't care less about it.

[dot king]

"Valentin's reply which by the way is not historically inaccurate"
(EYGH)

My post is historical truth and setting things straight
(Valentin)

???

[EYGH]

I may have mixed up the two "Mr Jones".

I therefore apologize to the gentleman who is NOT the one to post only disparaging and accusatory comments about France without ever bringing data or links to sustain his claims.

Dot King,

Thanks for your articulate answer. I do understand your reaction better now.

My surprise came from your apparent "over reaction" to a "mild" reply by Valentin to one too many disparaging comment. This kind of useless comments by native anglophones is way too common on this blog.

CB's blog is about France and supposed to be amusing and informative. It is also supposed, as you wrote, to be a place to exchange ideas. Too many comments here are pure and simple French-bashing.

It is too much to expect that no French person coming here will ever react and retaliate.

As for Sam Young and Mr Jones, they were an "example". I don't know what their nationality is (I really don't care) and it is not relevant to my point. All I know is that they are native English-speakers and French-bashers.

My question to you was : how would you feel if those two guys (among others) and whatever nationality other than yours they were, were making only derogatory and/or insulting posts on a blog dedicated precisely to your country and your people?

Even if you don't think of your Britishness all the time and despite your obvious open-mindedness, I pretty much doubt you would find such contributions to be positive, fruitful or just normal exchange of ideas.

There can definitely be a lot of negative agressivity and sourness on this blog.

I don't know if the various sources of the poisoning are having fun, but the rest of us, not so much.

It is too bad.

[dot king]

"My question to you was : how would you feel if those two guys (among others) and whatever nationality other than yours they were, were making only derogatory and/or insulting posts on a blog dedicated precisely to your country and your people?"

EYGH - It really wouldn't bother me - I live in France - among my neighbours I seem to be held peronally responsible for: rain, defeats of the French rugby team, fog, rain, rain, rain, bad food, rain, Tony Blair, Mrs Thatcher etc - at some time every Brit stereotype has been levelled at me with "ah, ces anglais!"
Seriously, I mean what I say, I don't jump in to protect my "Englishness", and someone's nationality is not what I want to know first, knowing it won't shape what I say to them or think of them. And I apply the same standard to myself - I don't expect to be judged in a certain way for just being English.
After all, none of us can help where we were born, it's pretty much accidental really.
My allegiances (including rugby) are much more to France now as it's where I live and work, it's where I get my news and culture, it's chez moi. and the rain is just as wey*t even if there's less of it!
Je n'ai pas la nationalité, mais c'est tout comme.
Every country has its critics, every system has its merits and demerits. If we criticise with demolishing and i don't go in for French bashing, I like the French, but I'm not aveuglée par cet amour.

[richard jones]

Dot King m'encourage beaucoup à continuer à blogger ici.

Merci Dot

PS - Mes excuses, malgré tous mes efforts je n'ai pas un URL pour vérifier ou soutenir cette proposition.

[dot king]

Richard Jones: je vous en prie, vous me faites plaisir avec ce commentaire, à mon tour, merci.

PS I see that I 've written "criticise with demolishing" - there's a missing syllable - should read "without demolishing".

[Pierre Bernardi]

Robert Azloon Furlong,

There are degrees in fraudulent behaviour which make the notion unfit, in my opinion, for legal consumption. Jérôme Kerviel's objective interests were the same as the Société Générale's - the bank stood to gain in more-than-equal measure. In the same way as your bank may tacitly endorse your overdraft (in French law), Soc Gen tacitly endorsed JK's trading positions. If they didn't know, then they should have. In this regard his imprisonment amounts to a public scandal.

[Daniel Strohl]

Doremi,
(Your post dated 10 FEB 14:46)

It is very interesting to have the opinion of a person living “sur place”. Tout n’est pas rose, of course…

" and don't use the railways » - LOL ! I used the British railway in 1991, but only once. It worked all right for me, but at that time, the “benefits” of the privatisation were not yet really visible!

Your quote of Mitterrand about Mrs.Thatcher is very funny …

Regarding the English accent in Scotland: I remember having had a technical discussion in an exhibition with a young engineer from Scotland. He had a very heavy accent really difficult to understand, at least for me. Fortunately, he was accompanied by a colleague (a lady) who translated what he was saying in an English which I was able to understand! He was some sort of a northern equivalent of our Mr.Schivardi (who is often imitated by Nicolas Canteloup on Europe I – very funny).

Pierre,

"In this regard his imprisonment amounts to a public scandal".

What is also scandalous is that we seem to head as usual for the "lampiste qui trinque", the upper management being of course "responsable, mais pas coupable".

[azloon]

Pierre Bernardi --

the new york times yesterday printed transcripts of kerviel supposed comments to his alleged accomplice at Fimat.

among them: 'i'm going to jail,' and 'i'm dead meat.'

do these sound like the words of an employee who is complicit in a firm-wide scheme to make money, or is he, rather, a rogue trader who was endangering his firm's capital, as french police obviously believe?

[John Gregory Flinn]

DOREMI -
True - english accents are generally bad news north of the border EXCEPT for the geordie accent.
That is the accent of the inhabitants of Newcastle-upon-tyne and Northumberland.
This is a sort of border territory where rievers and bandits used to move sheep and other things(!) across the border for a living, and don't always know where they are or, indeed who they are!!

DANIEL, my son explained your 'colloquialism' - too true, but someone will see it, hopefully sooner rather than later!

[DOREMI]

Daniel,

That is just my view on things.
There is an interesting writer Theodore Dalrymple, a pen name for Dr Daniels, a retired psychiatrist who lives in France.He was an idealist, home life - a communist father and a mother who escape the Nazis - was far from happy and may have contributed to his natural anger, but he is a very angry man now, working all his life in the NHS can't have helped. He has an interesting take on life in England and has been placed in the Compassionate Conservative's box. Life in England is not as easy as Sako suggest. Check him out.

John Gregory Flinn
Accents can be tricky for me, the first time I heard a thick accent from Liverpool, I remember thinking that brillo-pads were being forcibly inserted in my ears, and this person couldn't be speaking English. Scottish accent from Edinburgh makes me weak at the knees but Glasgow's makes me want to pay up. I went to the west coast of Ireland a few years back and I had to really concentrate to understand what was being said to me, of course when everybody started to drink - from 11 am- I gave up. There are words I cannot pronounce properly, but a French accent is deemed sexy here, some people make me repeat words just for fun so...

[dot king]

"among them: 'i'm going to jail,' and 'i'm dead meat.'

do these sound like the words of an employee who is complicit in a firm-wide scheme to make money, or is he, rather, a rogue trader who was endangering his firm's capital, as french police obviously believe?"

Azloon, I think I understand the question, but I don't know which is the right answer - which is he then please? I know nothing of money markets and wouldn't mind understanding which option is better and might get him out of jail, or not.

Azloon to Pierre

[azloon]

DOT -- i come down on the side of the police and, by implication, management of socgen.

pierre is obviously a fan of conspiracy theories. i'm not.

[Pierre Bernardi]

Azloon, obviously he was endangering the bank's capital. Where we would appear to have a difference of opinion is in the idea that such behaviour was criminal, and not simply intrinsic to banking. See an excellent leading article in today's FT on liquidity risk. Mr Kerviel's comments merely prove him to be prescient.

JG Flynn's comment tends to reinforce my belief that accents develop as a means of defence against the invader. This would account for Marseille, Birmingham, Newcastle, chtimi and (some might say) Glasgow. Some accents express character, like Gascony; others are merely inverted. Personally, I love geordie but can't stand brummie.

[azloon]

Pierre --

probably because i worked in the investment world, i tend view kerviel as a dangerous fellow, not only within his company, but to the larger public and society as well.

he actually destabilized the western banking and market systems in a dangerous and disturbing way -- simply by violating internal socgen controls, and in such a deceitful way, that it was difficlut to discover. that is the crime in my mind -- the deceipt kerviel practiced on his own firm, so that socgen was put in a postition of needing to inadvertently destablize markets in order to protect themsleves.

but i do understand your view that he is simply an agent of the system, whether or not he is in violation of internal controls. i just don't 'buy it.'

it will be interesting to see if any of the charges against him 'stick.'

[azloon]

Pierre, and now another conspirator is charged, giving lie to your argument. boy, this post is on an item so old, i doubt this will be read. whatever, it's 'for the record.'