Apologies all round for Mrs Carla Bruni Sarkozy

The latest episode in the Elysée Palace soap opera has produced an exchange of apologies and highlighted dangers for traditional media from their websites and blogs. 

Le Nouvel Observateur, a venerable left-leaning news weekly, said 'sorry' today for starting what is now known as the affair of the text message. That followed hard on the heels of Carla Bruni, President Sarkozy's new wife, apologising to the same magazine for comparing it to people who denounced Jews in the Nazi wartime occupation.   

For those who missed last week's episode, Le Nouvel Obs caused a stir by reporting on its website that, a week before marrying Bruni, Sarko sent a text message to Cécilia Ciganer, the wife who left him last October. This allegedly said: "Reviens et j'annule tout." -- Come back and I'll cancel everything.

Sarkozy, the first modern French ruler to turn his private life into public theatre, decided that le Nouvel Obs had crossed the line and hauled out the heavy guns. Rather than suing under the privacy laws, he has opened a criminal prosecution for fraud. Previous presidents never sued the media and certainly never wielded such a legal sledgehammer.

Le Nouvel Obs at first stood by its story and Airy Routier, its senior investigative reporter, said that his sources on the supposed explosive text were impeccable. He has failed, however, to produce evidence. He will have to do so in court to avoid the possible three-year prison term. Today the magazine grovelled, saying that it had erred on two counts: the facts had not been verified and, anyway, the story was a gross breach of the president's privacy. It obviously hopes that Sarko will withdraw the prosecution, but I would not bet that he will.

The internet comes in here because the magazine said that it would never have printed such a report in its weekly paper edition. It had been slapped quickly onto the internet site "in which speed and quick reaction is the vital rule". 

Enter Bruni. She decided to make her first address to her husband's subjects via the pages of L'Express, a rival news weekly. Her debut, published yesterday, was a long question and answer session in which she speaks about her love-at-first-sight meeting with Nicolas in November and her commitment to stay married to him forever.

Asked about the text message, she said:

"The justified suit filed by my husband is not of course against an organ of the press, but against 'the new disinformation media'. Le Nouvel Observateur has joined the ranks of the gossip press...If this sort of site had existed during the war, what would have happened with the denunciation of the Jews?"

After an outrcy from Le Nouvel Obs, Bruni has apologised, saying that she was extremely sorry if she had offended anyone. "I wrongly compared the methods used by web sites to those of the collaborationist press". 

This is touchy territory because of the hazy line between traditional "published" news and items that circulate on media websites without full vetting. A lot of commentators have come down against le Nouvel Obs over this double standard. Gérard Carreyrou, a veteran who writes now for the tabloid France Soir, says the magazine was guilty of supreme hypocrisy by "putting on its site something that it would not have had the courage to print on its paper."

He is no doubt right, except that it is getting harder these days for the media not to air items that are causing a buzz on the internet and which "everyone is talking about". One of these at the moment is the story that Carla Bruni is expecting a baby. You can find it on tens of thousands of blog postings but no traditional media have picked it up except in a joking way.

Today, the rumour has hit the site of L'Express magazine in a round-about way. Christophe Barbier, the editor, who did the interview with Mrs Bruni-Sarkozy, responds on his blog to readers who complained to him that "you should have asked her if she is pregnant". His answer: "No, because that is not about politics."   

So there we have a serious weekly having it both ways. It steers clear of an unseemly question but still airs it on the editor's blog. Of course I am doing much the same here, since The Times has not reported the rumour in the newspaper.

It's worth noting that Bruni's media debut was far from the spontaneous interview that it appeared to be. Barbier is a friend of hers. He says that he spent several days with her reworking her answers "as if they were lyrics to one of her songs". Anyone in the business would be surprised if the Elysée Palace did not also breathe on them. So France was really served up a crafted media release, not a piece of journalism in our sense. The internet can certainly mislead, but the stage-managed interview is not very honest either.

Comments

[Terry]

Are we sure Carla isn't Austrian rather than Italian?

On a slightly different note, I was thinking about our US campaign and George Bush's dissapointing term as President. I will relate this to France. Bush is a Republican and had both houses of Congress. His only economic achievement is one meager tax cut. He didnt do anything to curb illegal immigration. I am told by someone who's company predicts the price of oil (he's very big in this industry) that the real problem for high oil prices is that we havent built a refinery in the US in over 30 years. Bush could have changed this with one stroke of the pen. He didnt do it because he was afraid of the ruckus it would cause with the environmental left. In the end, Bush's failure was not Iraq but the wasted opportunity to use his power and fight for his policies. But that is somewhat institutional as well. The US government is designed to diffuse power so it is very difficult to make change. In the end, the presidency may, in reality, a weak position of power. It seems this might be Sarko might be experiencing the same type of inertia already. It's almost painful watching him back down everytime the French hit the bricks. It doesnt seem like much if anything is actually changing in France since his election. This leaves us with nothing much more for the press or anyone else to talk about other than his only true achievement in France-the successful wooing of Carla.

BTW: Frank, reviens et j'annulle tout.

[Mary]

The above comment by Terry -- a probable troll -- is off topic. It is so FAR off topic as to be an insult to readers. J'accuse!

[Jacqueline]

The problem in America is that Americans no longer think for themselves. We wait for the pundits to tell us what to think. And the cause? the media. Our media presents NO news, just popular folklore. We don't see what is going on in the world but we certainly know what Brittany Spears is doing day by day. Bush and all our politicians are motivated by public opinion so they don't stand up for their positions. So while Bush is probably the worst president in modern times, it's our political system and the disinterested-in-what-goes-on American public that really is to blame. Surpassed that is only by the lame media.

[john o'doe]

I was a fan of Christophe Barbier through his fine political analyses on C'est dans l'air but ever since he broke the news on his friend Carla he's been acting very strange, highly protective on any question remotely concerning her and her relationship with the president.
Now he's set himself up as her media coach and the first outing is botched as he's let the unwise wartime delation jibe slip out and she's had to offer apologies immediately.
Bravo M Barbier! Maybe he should stick to what he does best - political analysis and forget about celebrity counselling.

What's also interesting is that the previously wishwashy French press, owned by his friends, which was largely Sarko supportive at the beginning of his reign has now turned so viciously against him. We know that they're simply reflecting popular opinion in the country but he's declared war on the press by taking the Nouvel Obs to court.

[Rocket]

Mary

"The above comment by Terry -- a probable troll -- is off topic"

"Out damn spot"

And your first comment an insult to Terry wasn't off topic.

Mary you come on this site and the first thing you do is insult Terry, calling him a troll. He is anything but a troll. But you seem to be a "hole". He has been contributing longer than you have and his contributions are well appreciated by some and a source a vigorous discussion by others.

What ticked you off was probably that he didn't criticize the war and scream and kick for Universal Health Coverage.

Next time try Meetic or Speed dating will you!

So welcome to Charlie's saloon.

[Rocket]

John

I was a fan too and listen to his "chronique" every day. (LCI) Now I am a bit suspicious but he is still on target on a lot of subjects.

[Joan Arles]

It's a bit weird hearing a distinguished journalist (Barbier) boasting about how he co-wrote an interview with the subject of the interview (Bruni). I heard him on the radio doing that. I know French politicians and public figures often edit their answers before publication, but surely the journalist is not supposed to help write them. Talk about collaboration...

[dot king]

Oh, isn't it obvious?
Today President Sarkozy announces at a KRIJF conference that from La Rentrée onwards he wants every primary school child to hold the memory of a deported Jewish child - a couple of days ago his new wife, in a prepared and carefully worked interview, compares Nouvel Obs to those who denounced Jews during the Occupation. Even if she apologised - it's like the famous SMS - once the words are out, they're out and can't be unsaid - and what's a little apology set against denounced Jews and deported Jewish children?
It's going to be hard to make me believe there isn't un double effet d'annonce here. It's very cynical IMO.

And for this new "education measure" no prior consultation with the teachers, or even the Education Minister from what I've heard up to now, though I expect by tonight they'll have found something for him to say that makes it look as if he knew all along.
Et ainsi de suite . . .

I've been wondering, ever since he frolicked around announcing the new presidential couple, where Christophe Barbier is coming from. He still criticises Sarkozy or the effect (or not) of his politics on "C dans l'air" from time to time, and yet he plays along with this "interview". He's obviously mesmerised by Carla Bruni - he was next to Miss France the other evening on "le grand Journal" he looked pretty mesmerised by her too.

Strange, very strange. All we can do is attendre la suite - sure that there will be one.

[Blendi Progri]

Sarko will have some more trouble in the future, with gossip & the papers. Closing Carla in a "box" will prove to be hard, at least now she is nice and toing the party line...tomorrow maybe another story.

[Daniel Strohl]

"He (Carreyrou) is no doubt right, except that it is getting harder these days for the media not to air items that are causing a buzz on the internet and which "everyone is talking about" (Charles)

Yes, I get the point. But as far as I understand the whole mess, one has to point out again that the SMS story was first aired (by Airy ? - LOL) on the Nouvel Obs' site - this caused the buzz on the internet, and not the other way round.

Therefore, I hope that Sarkozy will proceed with the criminal prosecution for fraud. I am of course for a free press - but if something turns wrong, the responsible(s) - if there is actually a fraud - should stand for it in front of the justice and spare us meanwhile their forged and grandiloquent "cris de vierge outragée".

PS : The text of the SMS as quoted by Charles ("Reviens et j'annulle tout") holds a gross spelling error - the SMS should have been spelled "Reviens et j'annule tout" - if one writes a SMS, one tries normally to hold it as short as possible. The sender or the forger of the SMS are no good in French orthography. This reminds me of the famous "Omar m'a tuer" in a criminal case several years ago. May be we have got here a clue for the justice ...

However, if it is Charles who has made the mistake, he will get our munificent pardon, but he will nevertheless be sentenced to make a few "dictées" with his children - LOL!.

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot,

"where Christophe Barbier is coming from"

As far as I remember, this is already the second time you ask this question. Are you possibly mesmerised by him ? One has to say that he is indeed a handsome and bright young gentleman.

PS : To answer your question : I have read somewhere that Christophe is un ancien élève de l'Ecole Normale Supérieure. Not bad.

[Maggie G]

Concerning Sarkozy's supposed SMS message to Cecilia, "Reviens, et j'annule tout" -- did anyone else hear the Nicholas Canteloup continuation of the story?

Cecilia is apparently preparing to marry Richard A next month. Sarkozy sent her this message: "Annules tout, et je reviens."

Yes, Frank, reviens et j'annulle tout.
On second thoughts don't, no longer interested.

[Dominique]

Regarding Sarko willing every primary school child to hold the memory of a deported Jewish child, this is completly absurd! Let stop using the children for adult purposes!

I am tired of this adult world completly swallowing the liveliness of the childrens an passing them their own nevroses! Putting your own guilt on your child shoulder wont help him grow up! We should "assume" (french meaning aof verb "assumer") the past, transmit the memory, and let the children make up their own live.

During the campain, Sarko said we should stop doing "repentance" every day. He now does the very opposite. again. Repentance for the children is the worst education principal there is. Transmitting History and facts is good. ..Transmitting Guilt is bad.

Holocaust? let's make children feel guilty about it!
Colonisation? let's make the children feel good about it!
Global warming? let's scare the children and explain them that their beloved polar bears are dying because of them!

As a teacher, i won't do that to my class. I want the children to learn things, not to cry at every horror the world had to deal with.

With Sarko, France is becoming more and more a "dolorist" society, admiring those who suffer or their children.

Terry,

"It doesnt seem like much if anything is actually changing in France since his election"

I can't help my self and say "we told you so". Sarko is the most childish president we ever had. So was probably G.W.Bush in the US. This is unfortunatly the result of an ever more narcissist and egocentric society.

[Daisy]

How does His Majesty intend to enforce his new wish to have every school child hold the memory of the Jewish child? Who is he trying to impress? And by the way, isn't it usually the Prime Minister who attends the CRIF dinner?

[dot king]

"PS : To answer your question : I have read somewhere that Christophe is un ancien élève de l'Ecole Normale Supérieure. Not bad."
(Daniel)
That doesn't answer my question and I'm mesmerised by personne :)

"One has to say that he is indeed a handsome and bright young gentleman." (Daniel)
No, one doesn't HAVE to say it, but one can.

d'ailleurs:
Jean-Michel Apatie remarked that the law concerning this pursuit of the Nouvel Obs is mal-faite (la loi). The way it's written, according to him, everyone can be called to be questioned except the president.
He said the legislators were mediocre for having left this loophole.

[azloon]

Finally some u.s. bashing (from two americans no less). it's about time. come on, europe, pile on !!

-------------

Terry, sarko woo carla?

you've got to kidding. she brought him down with a single rifle shot to his groin.

-------------------

Rocket, Terry may not be a troll (but you NEVER know in cyberspace), but his post WAS so egregiously off-topic (and it was FIRST !!), it makes some off mine pale by comparison. Terry is usually damn 'spot on.'

so, let's give Mary a "do-over." so no, out damn spot.

and Terry, would you mind coming out from under your desk and refuting the characterization of you as a troll?

[Terry]

Mary:

I guess my point is say that the reason maybe everyone is focusing on Carla is because Sarko really hasnt accomplished anything else. You can call it off topic. But you're wrong. It is tangently related.

My thanks to Rocket explaining how it is to you.

[Marguerite.]

C'etait mieux quand les femmes des presidents de la Republique restaient dans l'ombre du grand homme et ne donnaient pas d'interviews aux journaux. En tous cas, pas si vite. Elles disaient moins de betises.C'est quand meme etrange de dire "Je ferai de mon mieux". C'est avouer qu'elle ne sait pas du tout ce que c'est que le "boulot' d'une femme de president.

[Francois D]

Returning this evening from Paris, I wondered whether Charles'blog, of which I became addicted, will speak about Carla's interview in L'Express. I bought the near last exemplary at the Gare du Nord..That's a success for the sales.

Ok Charles this interview is politically important. Imagine, we have a new queen and though it arrives, Carla is now in our history, even she is not the first Italian woman at this place... We have had the Medicis, Marie and Catherine. ..Catherine remains in the collective subconscient as a great queen. We debt to Catherine the "Renaissance", the presence of Leonard de Vinci etc.. Carla may surf on that. She is an artist...

It is a evidence that the text was read and read again before publication but it is an important text. The impression is good for it testifies faculties of auto analysis and humility. In that it can be politically useful for the husband... In an other domain, Carla refers to her Roman catholic culture: that will be appreciated by deep France (even if our "chanoine of Latran" is divorced). She also gives the real impression to be in love with him. She may surprise us and change him in the good direction. Good idea, not to receive any penny for the next album and to give this money for foundations.

I suggest Charles B to interview Carla, for the prestigious Times, in the perspective of the state visite in UK, next march. And after your lesson about paper and web journalism, I am convicted that you will keep for you, the eventual "off", even for the blog.

[azloon]

[You can call it off topic. But you're wrong. It is tangentially related] Terry to Mary

Terry, your segue was marginal. gotta do better than that. i would stress the 'tangentially' in your defense of your post.

let us decide if it was off-topic or not. you may be an attorney, but you're not the judge of all things.

sometimes, you absolute certainty grates a little.

[dot king]

Two quick points - or rather one wholehearted agrement and a small (but potentially interesting) nit-pick:-

1. Dominique - agree with you all the way

2. Re the quotation from Shakespeare (Lady Macbeth - to her dog as the joke goes) "out damned spot" the whole point is you pronounce the "ed" so you say "dam - ned spot"- she's a character who speaks in verse, prose generally reserved for the servants or comic characters, the extra syllable keeps to the rhythm and drama of the speech.

OK, that's all, carry on : )

[christopher muir]

It's hard to see how Sarkozy's challenging of Le Nouvel Observateur will advance his ambitious agenda for France. Perhaps one of his major priorities is to stifle opponents in the media. Not unlike an undergraduate magazine contributor , the esteemed French publication's reporter might have allowed himself to fall into a shadowy electronic trap.

[Ros]

The French people are not " her husband's subjects ", Charles - Carla is not (yet) the Queen!

[I used the word because Sarko behaves like a monarch, Ros.
CB]

[nata]

I d like to thank you all for introducing me into the French point of view:-)).Can I add some notes? It is almost impossible for S and the government, to make an financial effort during 9 months. French people want change, but it last even more then one term.

[Mary-Laure]

What, Charles? Not a word today about the fabulous Poiret sale at Drouot? I'm disappointed. Carla is beautiful, but Poiret is forever!
Fortunately, I went to Drouot yesterday and posted a little report on my blog about the sale, with a few pics too
http://mary-laure.blogspot.com/

[richard jones]

Dot,

Shakespeare speaks in blank verse and if you were to go to your copy of the Scottish play - Act V Scene I if my memory serves me aright, I would venture to suggest that the line is pronounced 'Out damnd spot' and there would be an accent on the gerundive - damnéd - if he wanted the extra syllable pronounced. There is one Folio that does have that glutinative pronounciation - 3 - I think but then this is all so much more amusing to talk about than Mme Sarko-Brown: or whether a given blogger is insulting another or if anything we write is on-subject at all and how we must not in any case write anything that may be viewed as demeaning or derogatory to France or things French.

Carry on chaps and chapesses!

[Rolf-Peter]

Now I understand the question, whether Bruni isn't rather of Austrian origin than of Italian. The miserable Austrian Marie Antoinette, la Madame Déficit, had spred the idea that a revolution is inevitable. She was a heavy burden for her deplorable husband Louis XVI. Maybe Madama Excuse will give the presidentship of Sarko the final impuls downward.

[Rolf-Peter]

Now I understand the question whether Bruni isn't rather of Austrian than of Italian origin. Maybe like the miserable Austrian Marie Antoinette, Madame Déficit, Bruni, Madame Excuse, will give the presidentship of Sarko the decisive impulse so it will end in bitterness, though not even in a revolution, more probable in an interesting autobiography.

[Terry]

Mr. Azloon:

"but his post WAS so egregiously off-topic"

~sigh~. I will spell it out for you, Azloon.

Charles has written a lot of posts on the Carla story. Many have complained about the volume of them. I have not. From my distant vantage point, I view the continued dominance of the Carla-Sarko saga as evidence that nothing really much is happening in the Sarko administration. If Sarko was actually bringing the change to France that he promised in the election, I am sure that's what we would be reading about. I was relating Bush to Sarko in that perhaps Presidents DON'T have the power to effect the change we think they have (and the power that they say they have).

My point is that maybe there is a "news and policy vacuum" that is being filled by stories about Sarko's love life. Whether that is by Sarko's instigation or the need for news stories to be written (or both), I dont know.

[concedo nulli]

Can you improve your spelling, you bloggers ! It should be "Annule tout et je reviens" ,"Jean-Michel Aphatie", and, if you mean to write in French, "bêtises" and "président" etc.

[Daniel Strohl]

MARGUERITE,

"C'est avouer qu'elle ne sait pas du tout ce que c'est que le "boulot' d'une femme de president".

Pensez-vous que les dames qui ont précédé Carla à l'Elysée savaient réellement ce qu'est le "boulot" d'une femme de président ? C'est "un boulot" qui ne s'apprend que par l'expérience - il n'est enseigné dans aucune école, même "Grande".

J'ai lu son interview - j'en ai retenu que c'est une femme intelligente et cultivée; par ailleurs, elle est représentative. Je pense que beaucoup de personnes doivent la jalouser, sinon ils ne débiteraient pas tant de méchancetés gratuites.

En France, on a le culte de l'égalitarisme à tout prix - dès qu'une personne sort de l'ordinaire, il est de bon ton de taper dessus, tous ensemble et de préférence sur Internet - ça fait plus "branché".

PS : Marguerite, comprenez-moi bien, ce n'est pas à vous personnellement que je m'en prends, mais à une mentalité générale qui nous fait beaucoup de mal, et qui constitue un lourd handicap.

FRANCOIS D,

I agree totally.

TERRY,

“his only true achievement in France-the successful wooing of Carla.” – LOL!

However, and more seriously, I would add to this at least two other achievements (as seen from France, may be not from the USA) :

With the end of the “régimes spéciaux”, the CGT union, for the first time in 60 years, has backed down in front of the government. Of course, the CGT will try to regain their “pouvoir de nuisance” (they made a try with the recent air controllers strike), but it will be less easy for them now than in the past.

The treaty of Lisboa has just been signed by France, after successful votes in parliament. Almost no paper did bother to do more than just mention this fact – most of them were and still are dead busy with Cecilia, Carla, Jean and so on.

However, one can and should credit Sarkozy to have forcibly pushed the treaty, along of course with Mrs. Merkel and others. Two years ago, when the first version of the treaty collapsed “thanks” to France and its referendum (and also the Netherlands) , the very same papers and journalists busy now with Carla and the Nouvel Obs made a big fuss with the treaty during weeks prior to and after the referendum.

[richard jones]

M. Strohl,

You are so right about the Treaty of Lisboa, in which, one could debate, there are things that grate on current French policies. The French media seems to be hampering French public policy.
You are also right about 'régimes spéciaux' in that incursions have been made but they are not all dead yet. I would admit a romantic hankering for the safeguarding of the one 'à l'Opéra'.
I would like to see less perambulation of French journalistic sensationalism in this blog, especially about Nic Sark and Charlie Brown. I would like to discuss real issues, like SocGen, the French economy and yes the marriage but only in terms of what they may be doing to hinder, hamper, avert, divert those needed reforms that Nic Sark was so enflammed about.
His actions in these fields so far have given me great disappointment.

[daniel bennett kieneker]

Truly our hearts should go out for people everywhere oppressed by gossip at the expense of privacy.
I first believed I read of this stories begginings weeks ago here in Seattle... give the lady some peace and quiet.

[Terry]

Daniel:

Thank you for the information. All I really know is what I see at this site. France is not too well covered here in the US. Although, Bruni is getting a lot of playtime here.

Lisboa I heard about. Unfortunately, I think that "backdooring" the EU constitution (if i understand this correctly) is a rather underhanded achievement. But I did not know he backed down one of the unions. No doubt a victory.

[Valentin]

Problem is, bad news will always be more shocking and better selling. French or Dutch NO were political earthquake; the Lisbon agreement is a bit boring. It COULD have been interesting if the conference FAILED! But they all agreed and signed. Dull. What was it that Carla ate today, again?

Daniel Strohl,

About the unions backing down for the "régimes spéciaux", it was a few months ago, when Sarko was at his poll top. As everything is both psychological and political in France, i am not sure they would still backup nowadays as Sarko is now very weak.

En ce qui concerne le soi-disant boulot de première dame, cela n'existe pas. C'est un reste de la conception monarchique du pouvoir. Un Roi se devait d'avoir une Reine pour assurer la descendance et l’avenir du royaume. Nous n’attendons plus cela de Carla Bruni. Elle n’a pas de fonction, pas de rôle, elle n’est pas élue.

Comme les soûlantes pièces jaunes de Bernadette, l’idée même que Carla nous demande bientôt d’acheter son disque pour le bien d’une organisation caritative me fatigue déjà. Si elle était sincère, que ne l’a-t-elle déjà fait pour ses disques précédents ? Ah on va en bouffer du Michel Drucker qui reçoit la première chanteuse de France, du Marie Drucker qui reçoit le premier ex-top modèle de France, du Mireille Dumas qui reçoit la première dame de France qui se plaint d’être connue, du « Qui veut gagner des millions ? » pour les petits myopathes sauvées grâces aux géniales réponses de la première dame de France, du « Star Ac » d’un Nicos Alliagas hystérique recevant, et c’est une preeEEEmièèèèèèère mes chers amis téléspectateurs, la premièèEEERRRE DaaaAAAmme de FRAAAAAANNNNCE CARLAAAAAAA BRUNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII !

Non décidemment, il y a quelque chose de pourri au royaume des pipolitiques. .

[Dominique]

Posted by: | 15 Feb 2008 20:10:26
was me!

Comme les chansons, cet entretien peut cacher de vraies perles. Et comme pour les chansons, il n'est pas toujours facile de trouver les mots pour exprimer ce qui est dans le coeur.
Voici une de cette perles :

"Je voudrais, en premier lieu, écouter Nicolas, écouter les gens, écouter tous ceux qui savent, car je ne sais rien. " (Carla Bruni)

[Emily]

So entirely bored with the Sarkozys I would like to suggest Simone Veil and her sang glacé for a prochain post.

What was the point of all this drama? and why oh why does he want to traumatize my children (déjà qu'on a pas des sous pour partir en vacances...)

[Blendi Progri]

If a tabloid editor was asked about his dream story, this one would be amongst the top 3 in his list.

France. A president ( and all the baggage that he brings, wives, divorces, political vendettas,) his energy, his origin, the way he can polarise public opinion at home and abroad and everything that has the stamp Sarko on it.

An ex-supermodel, ( and all the baggage that she brings with, marriage wrecker, ‘man-eater’ ) rich, independent, who can think and speak for herself, also can polarise public opinion on everything she does….etc..etc…

It is inevitable that the press will talk about it. Imagine for a moment if this happened in UK or USA where the press is more ferocious, the papers would have run and run with the story day-after-day-after-day… even added afternoon and night editions...

we got Only one Diana in here (the late princess, since 10 years ago) and the papers refuse to let her lay in peace.

We have had the butler (s), the sister (s), the Ma, the bro, the inquest, the Al fayed, her close friends (nearly 3568 people) her confidants ( another 12.345 people) and then servants, neighbours, people she met, people she ‘nearly met’ people she thought to meet, and people that she didn’t have the time to meet.
All in the papers, interviewed, talked about, photographed, quoted, criticised and some of them in tears. Just one person. Lady Di.

Here we have two people.
Very famous people.
The president and the CARLA, or CARLA and her President… however it continues (marriage, divorce, babies, recriminations, or being forever [&ever] in love, the Saga will never end.

I predict a quite year ahead….
2009 will be little troubled…
…and by 2010 the Books will fly.

Carla seems very rejuvenated though and maybe this marriage will go well for her skin, make her look younger. In ancient Greece, women counted their age from the day that they were married. This fact signified that the wedding marked the start of a woman’s real life.
Will Carla ever reach her “teens” with Nic? Lol
I HOPE SO…. And wish them well, don’t know why but these two folks have been growing on me…they have suffered enough, some support wont go amiss. Go Nicky…Go…go…ggg…o, Go Carla…GO.

-----------------------------------------------.

I NOTE WITH INTEREST that Nicolas Sarkosy has been called every name under the sun in here, or rather his name has been demolished, deconstructed, cut, shortened, summarised, used in a nick-name form, as mockery, compared to royalty, used in jocular fashion, in a friendly manner, in an avuncular, in mockery, irony, cynicism and sarcastic way.

He has been called Nicolas ( of course) Nicki, Nicky, Nicolas the I, his Royal Highness, Sarkosy, Sarkozy, ( indeed) Sarko, Sarky, Sarku and Sarkoo ( some must be attributed to spelling mistakes too) folks been calling him Nic, Nick or Nicolai… I wonder if any other individual in History had as flexible name or if has been so much used in so many diff combinations as Nicolas`is Name has, on this blog alone.
Feel free to ad more Sarko nick-names to the list, lol.

If everyone has a favourite one, do share it, mine is Nicolai the I.

[Daniel Strohl]

RICHARD JOHNS,

"divert those needed reforms that Nic Sark was so enflammed about."

I think that he will resume the action after the élections municipales and when the fuss with their marriage will have settled. Hopefully, our brilliant journalists will have found meanwhile "un autre os à ronger" (sorry, I don't know a proper English translation) "enlightening" for their readers and good for their circulation.

TERRY,

"is a rather underhanded achievement".

May be, but it is nevertheless an achievement. I am pretty sure that Mme Royal would have had much more difficulties to push the treaty through parliament, since her "friends" of the left would have managed to sabotage her by enforcing a referendum which with the present economic situation would surely have led to a new NO. This would have been a real disaster. There are right now more than enough economical problems at hand, and not only in France.

DOMINIQUE,

Je reconnais votre "voix" dans le post du 15. FEV 20:10 - LOL !

Tout à fait d'accord - ils nous cassent les PIEDS à la TV - ça vole souvent assez bas. Mais ça ne risque pas de s'améliorer, le service dit public veut garder la publicité pour pouvoir concurrencer encore plus TF1 au niveau de la "qualité" ... Belles bagarres en perspective.

PS : concernant "le soi-disant boulot de première dame de France" - là, vous êtes dur avec Sarkozy ! Il n'a quand même pas mérité ça - LOL! Rien dans la constitution ne lui interdit de se (re)marier. Il n'est pas rentré dans les ordres!

[Dominique]

D.Strohl,

Rien ne lui interdit de se marier, mais "épouse" n'est pas un métier. Première Dame n'est pas un titre. C'est pour cela que j'ai utilsé le terme "soi-disant boulot".

[qwerty]

This is off-topic, but after bouts of French-bashing on this blog, here is some US-bashing, and it comes from the NYT(my favourite newspaper):

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/books/14dumb.html?em&ex=1203310800&en=ed986aa2c486c13d&ei=5087%0A

"Dumb & Dumber: are Americans hostile to knowledge?"

[john o'doe]

Seriously though, what's happened to Carla's tv ads for Lancia? I haven't seen any lately. Have they been quietly pulled?

[dot king]

"'Out damnd spot' and there would be an accent on the gerundive - damnéd - if he wanted the extra syllable pronounced. . . .
Carry on chaps and chapesses!"

(Posted by: richard jones | 15 Feb 2008 13:15:13)

There, I said it was a potentially interesting nitpick!
You're quite obviously more knowledgeable than myself about this to be able to be so precise - unless of course you've clicked wikipedia or something to nitpick on me - in which case: Fie upon thee and I bite my thumb at you, sir!
Just between ourselves, I was put off "Macbeth" for good when force-fed it aged 12 in grammar school, but I do remember particularly that our teacher said "damnèd" pronouncing both syllables (who said I didn't listen in class and retain useful things?) and it was accented in our copies.
However, this is not to argue the point, when you write "damnd" you still prounce the "d" at the end, which was what I was meaning to nitpick to posters who had put it down as "damn".
They might well pronounce it "da-yem", being from across the pond, ;0 in which case they give it two syllables anyway. so that's oK, isn't it? : )

I only remember a few things about the play (i) the witches, (ii) out out damnèd Spot (capital S because nom d'un chien! it was her dog! no doubt "done a bêtise") (iii) dutifully taking a school trip to see it in a modernised version, Macbeth in a Mackintosh sort of thing, and being bored out of my mind whilst my pupils were totally captivated by it!
And (iv) I sat next to a friend called Joanna in class and on the day she was given Lady M's part to read, she came across "and pluck my nipple from its boneless gums" and she turned white and said "I'm not reading that out loud, it's disgusting." The teacher tried to explain why it wasn't, but she was having none of it - "If you make me read that in front of everyone, I'll tell my mum."
So you can see, "the Scottish play" is etched on my memory in totally inappropriate ways for someone who later became an English teacher!
Fortunately it never became an issue, but I have a marked preference for the comedies.

[Lily]

Emily,

I fully agree with you. The topic should be debated

http://www.rue89.com/2008/02/15/shoah-veil-juge-lidee-de-sarkozy-insoutenable

----------------

and I wonder where the President's advisors are.
Does he fully ignore expert opinion?
Doesn't he listen to ANYone?

Others seem to ask the same question:

"Des personnalités de droite comme de gauche ont signé un appel à la «vigilance républicaine» contre une «dérive monarchique» du pouvoir."

http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2008/02/15/01002-20080215ARTFIG00525-villepin-royal-et-bayrou-font-front-commun-contre-sarkozy.php

[dot king]

"Seriously though, what's happened to Carla's tv ads for Lancia? I haven't seen any lately. Have they been quietly pulled?"
(John o'Doe)
No, not pulled. Benn shown every evening this last week just before Le Grand Journal on Canal+ for certain, also in the "pubs" during the programme. I think i've seen it on a chaîne publique too, but can't be 100% sure. It's still around though.

[The commercials are still running on several channels and Lancia is about to bring out a new series, made last year like the current ones. The Bruni commercials have brought Lancia a huge leap in sales in France since Christmas. They are banking on even better for the next round. CB]

[dot king]

BLENDI why do you include the spelling "Sarkozy" in your list of mis-spellings - that's his name spelled correctly - you write "Sarkosy" which is a mis-spelling. He's with a "z".

He takes up so much blog space that bloggers often shorten his name, and he's generally known as "Sarko" on TV, radio and in some newspapers.

[dot king]

Le devoir de mémoir/transmission of a nation's indifference/guilt on to 10-year-olds certainly does merit discussion. Dominique started the ball rolling above a couple of days ago and it was identified as a political "effet d'annonce" move to coincide with Mme's "deportation gaffe" by my good self just in advance of that.
The fact that opposition to his latest proposal comes from Simone Weil is very important. One can only imagine how she managed to keep her cool at that dinner when she heard it, out of the blue - as did everyone else.
She wasted no time thereafter in denouncing it.
This is possibly the most influential opposition he'll meet on this matter.
Simone Weil is an admirable woman, who could deny it?.
But how many more presidential gaffes?

[Ben]

Dear Mr Brenner

I have just read your article « French pupils to learn the names of Nazi child victims » on the following page :

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3379071.ece

How can you be so sure that France never taught the holocaust to schoolchildren before 1995, as you write that « Since President Chirac recognised the crimes of the occupied state in 1995, the Holocaust has been taught in schools, and survivors visit classrooms » ?

Why do you call Guy Môquet a « resistance fighter » while it is quite easy to know that he never took part in any military fight whatsoever ?

[Well, Ben, he was part of the resistance. I used fight in the figurative sense. He became a symbol of the resistance fight. On the Holocaust, I did not write that France never taught the subject in schools before 95. Many did. But it became part of the programme after Chirac's arrival that year, as I wrote. CB]

[Terry]

Qwerty said:

"Dumb & Dumber: are Americans hostile to knowledge?"

Nice link on how americans dont know geography. Let me ask you, Qwerty, could French generals find Belgium on a map in 1941. Had they made proper use of their innate superior knowledge of geography, might they have been better served running the Maginot Line across the length of it's border?

Knowledge is only useful if you apply it, Qwerty.

[Terry]

Daniel:

"May be, but it is nevertheless an achievement."

The French people said "Non" in the EU referendum. I think his "treaty" was a rather undemocratic way to thwart French will. But that is for your country to decide.

[Daniel Strohl]

Dominique,

"mais "épouse" n'est pas un métier"

Mais quelquefois un sacerdoce - LOL!
C'est du moins ce qu'on me fait comprendre de temps à autre - re-LOL!

Ceci dit, j'avais bien interprété votre post.

QWERTY,

Very interesting link! I liked the story with Pearl Harbor - it reminds me of the (invented ?) story of the Frenchman visiting London and saying, after having seen Trafalgar Square and Waterloo station : ils sont quand même bizarres, ces Rosbifs, ils donnent des noms de défaites à leurs places ou à leurs gares!

PS : NYT is a good paper - I read it from time to time - also the Washington Post.

[millier marc]

dominique de Villepin. et François Bayou.

ils ont signé cet appel.
des hommes responsables !! enfin

[Valentin]

Frankly, after all TV news said on this, I was expecting something more radical from this "appel républicain". The (original?) text is here :

http://www.marianne2.fr/L-Appel-republicain-de-Marianne_a83903.html?PHPSESSID=2f7c82c1161ba1aaed147690cf27b7b7

and it's basically a review of all the controversies around Nicolas Sarkozy's presidential action the last 9 months.
All points are debatable, and have long been argued these months from both sides - left and right.
The "appel" adopts the leftwing positions (which was to be expected) and if Bayrou was already heading left-wards, the presence of Villepin or Dupont Aignan is quite surprising. Disagreeing with Sarko on laicity or Ghaddafi is one thing, moving over to the opposition ranks, is a whole different one altogether.
And so we get to the arch-rivalry Villepin - Sarkozy, born years ago, when Villepin was Jacques Chirac's declared heir and was writing books with very subtle titles, like for instance "Le requin et la mouette" (the shark and the seagull).
Problem is, "le requin" won the elections, and "la mouette" could be convicted following the investigation on the Clearstream files.
It remains the "personal monarchy" issue - so dear to Charles Bremner :)
I'd really like to know what exactly can be interpretted as abuse of power by the president, precisely in what way is he trespassing the limits imposed by the Constitution.
But what would be a good bedtime story without the mistery part...

[Blendi Progri]

I heard that a guy is trying to persuade Carla to model his lingerie range (a company she previously worked for) I don’t think she`ll agree but one never knows and that will be fun to watch.

The 1-st lady will be full of surprises... and she will need an iron will to resist the endorsement offers coming her way.

[rocket]

Hey Terry, I've had loads of French people tell me that there are 52 states in the USA. No there aren't I tell them. They are so cocksure that there are that they stand and crow.... Alaska and Hawaii. Too funny

PS - Daniel You spoke to Terry about "les regimes speciaux" being a major change in France. Be careful IMHO, for the moment we don't know how much more it is going to cost public spending in increased wages for the increase in the retirement age. This was a comment made time and time again by French journalists. True, the age has been raised, but there were "contreparties" given up by the government.

Same for Liberation of Bulgarian hostages. We just don't know.

I don't think it's cocorico just yet. Remember all of the good things that were said about the 35 hours in the interest of political correctness. For me, there hasn't been much change, yet I support Sarkozy but less today than before. Promises and words, but that's about it. Haven't seen Sunday store openings, the death of 35 hours, lower social charges and a host of other reforms which need to be undertaken before I die.

[Daniel Strohl]

Terry,

"that is for your country to decide"

Yes. The democratically elected parliament decided with more than the required majority.

"Nice link on how americans dont know geography"

And their own history as well (Pearl Harbour/Vietnam)- LOL!

More seriously : it is great time for Europe (EU) to get a really working political and economic organization and to be recognized as a "country" with over 450 millions inhabitants. Even if this has to be made through parliament votes rather than through referendums.

As an analogy : more or less everybody knows that China is a big country. Many people even know that its capital is Beijing and are (may be) able to quote a few Chinese city names, possibly Canton and Shangaï. And that is most probably the end of it. However, there are several provinces in China, each with a local capital, some of these provinces being bigger than for instance France or Germany. I am not sure that many people (whether American or European) are able to name at least some of these provinces with their capitals and to locate them approx. on a map.

Therefore, Europeans (and last but not least, French) should not expect Americans or Chinese or Indians to know all European "provinces" with their capitals and their cultural specificities.

[Daniel Strohl]

Valentin,

I agree - j'enfonce le clou en disant que de Villepin a perdu une bonne occasion de se faire oublier. Il s'était malencontreusement fait remarquer avec l'échec du CPE; quant à Clearstream, wait and see - c'est une affaire pour le moins obscure ...

Marc Millier,

"des hommes responsables !! enfin".

Marc, je suis sûr que de Villepin aurait apprécié que vous l'ayez qualifié "d'homme responsable" à l'époque du CPE - LOL!

Quant à Bayrou, il navigue à vue. C'est un ancien marin qui vous le dit - LOL!

[qwerty]

"Knowledge is only useful if you apply it, Qwerty."

But Terry, that's the problem with Americans: they feel so sure of themselves and their way of life and that they will never have to go abroad, adapt to another way of thinking, cope with other cultures, that they don't NEED to apply that type of knowledge and therefore have no necessity to learn anything other than what directly concerns them!*

So they land in Irak, because they had absolutely no prior knowledge of local culture and how the whole mess would develop: rival factions, inter-fighting, latent religious integrism, all that violence contained by Saddam just exploding. Even though they must have had their scouts, their counsellors. And this is where je rends hommage à Jacques Chirac, for the one good thing (apart from recognising French responsibility in the holocaust) that he did in his life: he predicted the outcome in Irak.

*See my current guru, Robert McKee, in a recent screenwriting seminar in France: "50% of the people in the world can place Budapest on a map. The rest went to American schools".

[Rocket]

QWERTY

Ok now I understand where you are coming from. You are still angry that the US didn't get down on it's knees in front of Chirac to apologize so of course Americans are all idiots.

Well here is something really intelligent on your part

"They will never have to go abroad, adapt to another way of thinking, cope with other cultures"

Where did Americans come from QWERTY if not othrer nations so I would say alot of coping with other cultures has been done. Much more than in France for example where you've thrown all of your other cultures in suburbian ghettos.

[Francois D]

I agree with Valentin.
I try to understand the situation and it is not easy...
May be it's the interest of this period lived here (I am French).
Several things.. In connection with the obligation made to teach holocaust to all small French by parainning, one by one, a Jewish child died in camp. I think that it is essential to require this instruction: "forgive but never forget". At the same time, it is necessary to explain to the children that the country was saved by English and American (and also men recruited in french colonies and all others), and to inculcate them the importance of the friendship between Germany and France: not to revive that one more (WW1 and WW2).
The position of Simone Veil challenges me. This woman is at the top for moral positions: it is an immense legal entity, living witness of Shoa. She supported Sarko (she could have supported Bayrou). It seems to me that her reasons are grandmother's ones, unless she refers to former positions, like that to have been opposite to the judgement of the chief of Gestapo in Lyon. From there to individualize the memory, child by child, is another question. The psychologists seem against (see the article of CB (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3379071.ece)
I am Pediatrician.. and that has not shocked me, but my personal history is particular... My grand parents had as neigbors a jew family which disapeared in the shoah (and among them, my mother"s best friend, 12 years old whereas elders boys could be saved while being prevented in time: until age of 10 years, I believed that they were my cousins). I discovered the history of Shoah probably before 6 y and I don't feel to have been traumatized (and I was educated in the memory of a young british war pilot buried in my village). It is true that I surprised me crying this winter while seeing a film over this subject, this perhaps explains that...
The fundamental question which arises (can be is that the explanation of the virulent position of Simone Veil?), is the susciption of use by Sarko of the History. It gives the impression to communicate with - as would say psychiatrists - "pathos", i.e. to use of our sensitivity in connection with certain historical subjects.
What is advisors's role, another subject of reflexion. Sarko is surrounded by excellent technicals advisors. For medical and scientific domain, he has, for example, Pr Arnold Munnich, very famous Geneticist Paediatrician at the hospital for Sick Children in Paris (Enfants Malades). Was he requested? Was he heard? His main adviser seems Henri Guaino who writes speeches with excellent syntax. It is said that "speedy" has not too much time to read them before pronouncing, unless that is sometimes a useful subterfuge...

It would be interesting to speak about the call cosigned by Villepin, Bayrou, Segoléne and others. This mall is already long. It is also complicated and that needs to be elutriated in my brain (is it an english expression?)waiting perhaps a CB article.

PS two personnal notes:
1) it appears very improper to speak, in this blog, another language than the original one.
2) it appears quite as improper to deviate the topic.

[Rocket]

Emily, Lilly

I agree with you both. It is absolutely unimagineable for me to fathom how the President of a "Democracy" can interfer to the point of putting his own personal imprint on what children should or shouldn't learn in the school system. It seems as if he consulted no one before setting forth this proposal.

On a scale of 1 - 10 (10 being total Monarchy) for a peronalized Monarchial Presidency in France we are quickly heading to the 7 - 8 level.

More on this if CB does a post.

[Valentin]

What's funny is how the same pattern repeats over and over: Sarko throws in some provocative idea, and everybody jumps at its (idea's) throat without pondering more than 2 seconds.
Sarko made the oh so horrible mistake of not explaining just HOW he sees this "parainage" thing; in what way precisely a child would have to adopt the memory of a victim child.
I've always lived with the memory of my dead grandfather, and there was nothing more serene than his burial place. Actually the constant attention his wife gave this place during what, 40 years, were a huge example of fidelity and respect.

So it's all down to how it's done.
Sarko put out the idea of keeping the memory alive; youths today have no memory whatsoever about all that, and it's all fading out.
In the same way, Sarko put out the principles of returning to some of the older ways of teaching, he never said HOW exactly. That the government's job.
It's a bit sad that Simone Veil stood up so quickly, without taking the time to see what the idea was, before saying that "it freezes my blood". Actually she has no more idea than we do as to what exactly Sarko meant.

(and now I find out he'll set up a commitee to decide how the thing is to be done; why not say that from the very beginning then, and spare us this whole "anti-" outcry :-/ )

Oh and François, I (very humbly) always thought that we should express in the language we decide best. As Charles said before, posts in French are equally welcome.
Not to worry about off topic talk either, in all humility, I'll tell you: we do that all the time ! :)

[Daniel Strohl]

Rocket,

"Ok now I understand where you (i.e QWERTY) are coming from.

Rocket, may be you are wrong. QWERTY wrote in a post (si ma mémoire ne me joue pas de tours) that he was neither French nor Anglo-Saxon. If this is true, you will have to find another (really French!) target - LOL!

"I don't think it's cocorico just yet".

Nor do I. But it is a good start, even if it is slow. I hope it will accelerate after the élections municipales. François Fillon seems to be motivated too.

"Remember all of the good things that were said about the 35 hours in the interest of political correctness".

Yes, these good things were said mostly by (well intentioned, I don't dispute that) high level civil servants and ministers, who had no experience whatsoever of smaller and medium businesses - it didn't always cross their minds that for a boss to hire additional people, he must at least be reasonably sure to be able to pay them and to find additional work or sales to do so.

Of course, some incentives and compensations were devised in order to help businesses to overcome the new difficulties. But as usual, they were very complex, with many "garde-fous". Therefore, one can't speak of a big success - this is a litotes ...

"for a peronalized Monarchial Presidency in France we are quickly heading to the 7 - 8 level".

However, Prof. Jacques Marseille said a few days ago on a radio station that Sarkozy has LESS economic power than his predecessors, since many things have been transferred from the state to the regions (20 regions out of 22 are left leaning, the two remaining , i.e Alsace and Corsica, are right leaning).

As an illustration, he mentioned the fact that local taxes (taxe d'habitation and taxe foncière) are already higher than the "impôt sur le revenu" cashed in by the state. I have just checked in our personal case : our “impôt sur le revenu” represents 40 percent of the sum “taxe d’habitation + taxe foncière”. And the “impôt sur le revenu” is the “lowest” of the three taxes. Ok, we are retired, and our “retraite” is rather Spartan – LOL!

PS : and one should not forget what Fillon and Sarkozy have both said very clearly :"les caisses sont vides".

[Terry]

Rocket:

"I agree with you both. It is absolutely unimagineable for me to fathom how the President of a "Democracy" can interfer to the point of putting his own personal imprint"

I also agree with you both (as the token scottish jew on this site). Let me add that this is act of someone is cannot enact the policies he proposed in the election. So, he picks nice easy "accomplishments" that he can push through without much rancor. This is what I was talking about with the Carla Sarko love affair. There is not much else to report.

[Sandrine]

J'aime bien cet appel lancé par Ségolène Royal, Bayrou, De Villepin et de nombreux autres. Mais je ne pense pas qu'il servira à quoique ce soit. Sinon à redonner des forces aux rares derniers supporters de Sarko. (bouh, regardez comme on martyrise ce héros moderne !?)

J'avais dit avant les élections que je sentais ce type dangereux et je suis ravie de ne pas m'être trompée. Ce qui me fait mal au coeur c'est de voir Daniel et Valentin continuer à chanter ses louanges comme si de rien n'était. Rien n'est de sa faute, TOUT absolument TOUT est de la faute des autres (les méchants journaux gauchistes, les journalistes gauchistes, les fonctionnaires gauchistes, les taxis gauchistes, les infirmiers gauchistes, les pêcheurs gauchistes, les agriculteurs gauchistes, les enseignants gauchistes...).

Je ne commente plus trop sur le blog, mais je continue à le lire parce qu'il est toujours très intéressant, mais j'en ai ras-le-bol de voir comment on lui passe tout.

Moi il me fait penser à un adolescent qui a soudainement un grand pouvoir entre les mains. Il en use et en abuse pour son plaisir, mais il a oublié qu'il a été élu pour être président pas pour s'amuser aux 4 coins du monde avec ses poulettes ! Mais ça, quand on le dit, on est vite considéré comme un anti-sarko gauchiste tendance coco !

Les caisses sont vides Daniel ? C'est Sarko lui même qui le dit ? Alors pourquoi le plus urgent a été d'augmenter son salaire de plus de 170% ? Pourquoi ? Après il court à droite et à gauche pour dire qu'il ne peut rien faire pour le pouvoir d'achat des Français, mais pour le sien il a trouvé le temps et l'argent non ? Il n'y avait pas plus urgent que ça ? Il n'aurait pas pu dire un truc du style : je pourrais m'augmenter mais je ne le fais pas parce que je veux montrer aux Français que je prends au sérieux leurs problèmes ? A savoir qu'il faut se serrer la ceinture TOUS ENSEMBLE pour espérer s'en sortir ?

Daniel Bouton a accepté de ne pas recevoir de salaire jusqu'en juin 2008 pour montrer sa solidarité avec les difficultés de sa boîte. On peut en penser ce qu'on veut, mais JAMAIS Sarko n'aurait fait la même chose. Pire, c'est le moment qu'il choisit pour s'augmenter...

Faites ce que je dis, pas ce que je fais. Et je ne parle même pas de ses effets d'annonce stupides (un pas en avant, deux sur le côté, puis trois en arrière), de ses positions religieuses dans un pays où la laïcité est (était ?) semble-t-il bien ancrée, ou de ses réalisations à l'étranger.

J'espère de tout mon coeur qu'il démissionnera avant la fin de l'année !

[Terry]

Qwerty:

Yes, isnt it so nice to feel your so much smarter than us colonials? We Americans are all just so stupid. Rocket posted a very funny link on how the French are stupid too. It was a game show clip. The question was what revolves around the Earth. The french contestant struggled with the question and had to ask for help from the French audience. If memory serves, they chose the sun.

Somehow us stupid Americans managed to create the most stable, most wealthy (and I mean wealth spread across its entire population)and most free society the world has ever known. Almost all of Europe were still living in monarchies or dictactorships in the 19th century and into the last century. Twice last century, we had to send our citizens to intervene in two rather stupid European wars. Were those wars caused by smart European policies? I forgot. Somehow, us stupid Americans came into foreign countries like France, Germany and Italy without knowing their cultures to restore (France, Belgium, Netherlands, etc) democracy or introduce it for the first time. (Germany, Italy). (Yes, I know we had some allies too)

Iraq has been a resounding success to those with half a brain. We invaded and controlled an entire country with a force equivalent in size to the forces we had on D-Day. This is truly a remarkable military accomplishment. The surge has worked and the violence in Iraq has petered out. Democracy is still in question. We will see.

Your beloved Chirac chose to prop up a mass murderer. All so his precious French contracts would not be disturbed. Rather than helping the Iraqi people, he spent much of his time trying to get goad us into making the Iraqi people back Saddam's monetary debt to France.

[rocket]

Sandrine

"Daniel Bouton a accepté de ne pas recevoir de salaire jusqu'en juin 2008 pour montrer sa solidarité avec les difficultés de sa boîte."

Six months. Big deal. Let's not forget his perks

C'mon Sandrine. As head of SocGen don't you think he's picking up at least 10% interest on his investments while the rest of us try to eek (sp?) out 4% in 2008 if we are not losing money. My investments have lost 20% since Nov 07. I don't have a bank at my service.

If he's got 5 million invested, I'm sure he's getting half a million on capital gains and we haven't even spoken about the stock options. So he can afford to not take salary. The rest of us still have to count our coins at the end of the month.

He should have resigned as any other CEO would have.

[Lily]

"What's funny is how the same pattern repeats over and over: Sarko throws in some provocative idea, and everybody jumps at its (idea's) throat without pondering more than 2 seconds."

Valentin,

there is nothing funny or surprising about this. No one would jump at Sarko's ideas if they were mere ideas.

It looks as if he had taken his decision without any prior consultation. He will then consult experts for the implementation of his decision. Expert advice/the democratic approach is needed with decision making in the first place.

Whether it is good or bad, wise or unwise to confront 10year-olds with history like this, is another question.

[rocket]

I particulary like the following comment by QWERTY.

...all that violence contained by Saddam.

Any Kurds care to comment on this.

Didn't we also have a bit of Saddam inspired violence when he invaded Iran and Kuweit, gassed the Kurds, killed thousands of his opponents and send $25k to families of Palestinian suicide bombers.

[rocket]

Here it is again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiUSqtsm-l0

[Lily]

"We all know that the Americans in France criticise other Americans because it makes French....
Rocket, please copy ten times
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."

Thank you. :)
[Thank you Heike, you are right. That comment has been erased. CB]

[Daniel Strohl]

Sandrine,

Je suis heureux (et je ne suis surement pas le seul!) de vous revoir sur le blog. Vous n'avez pas changé d'opinion - moi non plus d'ailleurs!

Bien sûr qu'il y a eu des erreurs, et il y en aura certainement d'autres. Il n'y a que ceux qui n'entreprennent rien qui ne font pas d'erreurs trop visibles. Nous avons eu toute une kyrielle de cette sorte là depuis des décades, les yeux rivés sur les sondages et les futures élections (Dot dirait "mesmérisés par les sondages et les futures élections" - LOL!)

Sinon, comment peut-on expliquer que nos divers voisins européens, qui ont souvent moins d'atouts que nous, ont fait mieux que nous et continuent de mieux faire sur le plan économique? Ils ont fait bien avant nous les réformes difficiles et les adaptations nécessaires. Bien sûr, c'est une potion difficile à avaler. Mais si on ne fait rien de sérieux et de difficile, nous continuerons de descendre lentement mais surement. Et ce sont les gens comme vous et moi qui trinquerons. Les "capitalistes" auront pris leurs dispositions (à ce propos, si on en croit la presse allemande, le Lichtenstein est mal coté en ce moment - on ne peut plus se fier à personne - LOL!).

"J'espère de tout mon cœur qu'il démissionnera avant la fin de l'année !"

Moi pas ! Je souhaite qu'il mène son quinquennat à terme en essayant de faire ce qu'il y à faire.

Si j'avais une réforme constitutionnelle à proposer (mais bien sûr personne ne m'a consulté - LOL), ça serait de limiter la fonction présidentielle à un seul mandat - pour éviter la "mesmérisation" et ses effets néfastes.

[rocket]

"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."
"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."

[no]

[qwerty]

OK, Rocket, that comment about Saddam containing violence was clearly hasty and badly expressed. He was responsible for a genocide. But he could have been dealt with in other ways than invasion, not necessarily legal either.

Anyway, I see that I've brought the rednecks and neocons out of the woods - I had no idea there were any Americans left who still support Bush's invasion of Irak.

[Terry]

"I may not write about other people's genitals or anything related thereto on Charles' blog."

"[Thank you Heike, you are right. That comment has been erased. CB]"

Does this mean I can't discuss the Holy Grail here?

Who is Heike?

[Sandrine]

"He should have resigned as any other CEO would have."

As I said, one can think that what Daniel B. has done was not enough (he should have resigned, I agree), but at least Rocket, he didn't decide that it was the right moment to have a rise.

"Ils ont fait bien avant nous les réformes difficiles et les adaptations nécessaires. Bien sûr, c'est une potion difficile à avaler. Mais si on ne fait rien de sérieux et de difficile, nous continuerons de descendre lentement mais surement."

On est d'accord Daniel, mais, à part Berlusconi, je ne vois aucun autre Chef d'Etat européen qui ait autant mis sa vie privée en avant au lieu de faire les réformes pour lequel il a été élu.

Comme je le disais, il semble s'être d'abord préoccupé de lui (et de ses amis) avant de penser aux Français. Tout le monde fait des erreurs je le reconnais, mais lui ne semble pas être au courant de cet état de fait et continue sur sa lancée sans jamais essayer de voir si ce qu'il balance à longueur de journée est faisable, souhaitable ou même raisonnable.

Non, il a une idée et sans demander d'enquête pour savoir ce qu'elle coûterait ou bien sans en parler à d'autres, il la lance. Après, on a droit à un ballet de ses proches conseillers, des ministres et des députés de sa majorité pour essayer d'expliquer aux Français ce qu'il a voulu vraiment dire et comment ça va pouvoir se faire. Cela fait franchement amateur non ?

On navigue à vue et c'est atroce à regarder quand on est de la "France d'en bas". Il ne sait pas où il va et le pire, c'est que je suis persuadée que Fillon non plus !

Chaque jour apporte son lot de choses qui vous font lever les yeux au ciel. Vous appelez cela des réformes, j'appelle cela de la poudre aux yeux et il semble que les Français ne sont plus dupes ! Thank God !

ps : ravie de pouvoir discuter à nouveau avec vous, même si on n'est pas du même bord.

[Sandrine]

"Si j'avais une réforme constitutionnelle à proposer (mais bien sûr personne ne m'a consulté - LOL), ça serait de limiter la fonction présidentielle à un seul mandat - pour éviter la "mesmérisation" et ses effets néfastes."

8 ans sur le schéma américain me plaisent assez bien. Impossibilité de se représenter donc cela ouvrirait la porte à d'autres "têtes" ! Là-dessus on se rejoint Daniel !

[Valentin]

"It looks as if he had taken his decision without any prior consultation. He will then consult experts for the implementation of his decision."

You can see it this way. Or you can see it as I do: he announced an idea of principle. He's not giving it up - on the contrary. The jewish organizations are fully supporting it. He had this idea when he was Home minister (hence it's not some emotional gadget).
As a President, he stated the principle. Up to the government now, with expert aid, to find the best way to put it into practice.

That's what French presidents always did. On my word, I can't see anything populist or dictatorial in all that.

As to Sandrine, I would be curious to know in what way Sarko proved dangerous. HOW is France in danger now more than before. HOW did Sarko trespass the limits imposed by the constitution.
On the contrary, the Lefties go so far as to speak against Leftish measures (public TV without ads, Guy Moquet etc).
This shows how much they believe in their own ideas.
Sandrine, you being happy for Sarko proving to be dangerous, is in line with old Left attitude: Sans nous, le Déluge! Who cares about France, as long as we're proven right.

The salary "coup" is the usual leftie stuff: he did NOT "increase" his salary; the president's salary was much lower than that of any other PM or president in the G8 and beyond it. BUT the French President had access to funds outside ANY kind of control or limit.
Sarko put his salary at a "normal" level (that of the prime minister) and took it through parliament (suppressing the secret funding).
This is called ENDING WITH HYPOCRISY.

That's why, amongst many other things, we continue to support Sarkozy: while he stays faithful to the spirit in which he was elected, and with the promises he made, he'll keep his supporters.

And MAYBE we'll be able to convince him to take up a second term!

[Dominique]

Terry,

"Somehow, us stupid Americans came into foreign countries like France, Germany and Italy [...] to [...] introduce democracy for the first time. (Germany, Italy)"

Hum, back to the school subject. Maybe you should go back there? by the way, not american schools...;=)

In other parts of the world, we learn some other things...

Indication : Weimar, Rome, Senat ...

Terry, if you make it, i give you an A. I know you can make it! (see french schooling can also encourage those who usually just can't make it right)

[dot king]

"(Dot dirait "mesmérisés par les sondages et les futures élections" - LOL!)"
(Daniel)
Par le passé on m'a attribué des choses que je n'ai jamais dites - et maintenant Daniel m'attribue des mots que je vais dire à un moment imprécis dans un futur conditionnel!
Il ne fallait qu'y penser . . .

Non, désolée, Dot n'aurait pas dit cela - elle a déjà précisé qu'elle n'est mesmérisée par personne et encore moins par des chiffres concernant Sarkozy! (en fait je ne savais même pas que vous aviez le même mot en Français qu'en anglais - merci Daniel, je l'ajoute à mon repertoire : ))
Sandrine - quel comeback! FYI j'ai fait le commentaire que Christophe Barbier semblait être mesmérisé par Carla Bruni en paticulier, et peut-être les belles femmes en général (il était assis à côté de Miss France - c'est sans doute "l'effet yaourt"), mais je l'ai écrit en Anglais. ;0

[Daniel Strohl]

Rocket, Terry, and also Dominique

An interesting link, brand new since I picked it up this evening on The Washington Post site :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021502901_2.html?nav=hcmodule

It shows that there is some work to do in the USA - but not only there ...

PS : 1 out of 5 Americans believe that the sun revolves around the earth.
European education scientists do probably not dare to make similar statistical research, by fear of the results - LOL !

[Sandrine]

"This is called ENDING WITH HYPOCRISY."

Mon Dieu, et tu crois vraiment ça ? C'est pas possible qu'aujourd'hui encore quelqu'un en France puisse croire une telle insanité. Alors le type s'adjuge 170% d'augmentation de salaire (oui môssieu c'est bien de cela qu'il s'agit) au pire moment, c'est à dire celui où soi-disant il faut maintenant se retrousser les manches et se serrer la ceinture (enfin seulement pour nous apparemment), mais il faudrait en plus croire que c'est une bénédiction pour la pays ?

Wow, jusqu'où les "rightists" iront pour défendre ce type me surprendra toujours. Mais je suis ravie de le voir se faire descendre par ses ex-adorateurs (connus ou anonymes) dans Le Figaro, le seul "vrai" journal d'information dans cette marée gauchiste hein...

Quant à Guy Mocquet, utiliser sa lettre pour faire pleurer dans les chaumières, pardon, dans les lycées, je n'appelle pas cela une idée de gauche, j'appelle cela faire du pathos alors qu'il me semblait qu'on était à école pour apprendre l'histoire (notamment) ! Non, selon lui, il faut connaître la lettre de Guy Mocquet par coeur et parrainer (le terme est horrible en plus) un enfant mort dans des conditions innommables !

Je suis contente que ma fille n'ait pas à faire cela (on sera encore à l'étranger) parce que c'est franchement ridicule et malsain. Qu'elle apprenne l'histoire de la Shoah, je trouve cela très bien et elle est d'ailleurs déjà enseignée au niveau du collège ou du lycée, pas besoin d'en rajouter dans le sensationnel !

Mais bon, comme d'hab, l'autre nous a balancé ça sans réfléchir ou si peu et ensuite tout le monde est en train de courir derrière pour voir comment cela pourra être mis en place.

"That's what French presidents always did. On my word, I can't see anything populist or dictatorial in all that"

N'importe quoi ! Il y avait de la consultation avant, un Président avait des idées mais il consultait néanmoins (ou informait à l'avance) les membres du Gouvernement. Je ne sais pas moi, au moins pour que tout le monde soit sur la même longueur d'onde au moment où il fait son annonce. Mais non, Sarko veut tellement faire différent qu'il tombe dans l'amateurisme et le brouillon le plus complet.

"And MAYBE we'll be able to convince him to take up a second term!"

Le convaincre ? Alors là on a la preuve que tu ne connais pas Sarko, comme s'il allait falloir le pousser pour qu'il se représente. Quand on a goûté au pouvoir (et visiblement lui il adoooooore ça), c'est quasiment impossible de s'en défaire. J'espère juste que les Français seront capables de lui montrer la sortie, calmement, mais fermement !

"Sandrine, you being happy for Sarko proving to be dangerous, is in line with old Left attitude: Sans nous, le Déluge! Who cares about France, as long as we're proven right."

C'est tellement outrancier que ça n'appelle pas de réponse. Si tu crois que je suis contente de voir l'état dans lequel se trouve mon pays, si tu crois que je suis contente quand on me pose plein de questions (la mine rigolarde) sur "mon" président, si tu crois que suis heureuse quand je regarde en ligne les news de mon pays et que je vois les dernières péripéties politiques... tu te fourres le doigt dans l'oeil. Mais si ça te fait plaisir de croire ça...

[Valentin]

"Mon Dieu, et tu crois vraiment ça"

Eh oui ! Quelle naïveté, hein :)

" Alors le type s'adjuge 170% d'augmentation de salaire"

Il s'est mis au niveau de son Premier ministre, et l'a fait via une loi, au contraire de ses prédéceseurs, qui préféraient bénéficier de fonds secrets.

" utiliser sa lettre pour faire pleurer dans les chaumières"

Du pathos, oui, mais de gauche toute de même !! :))

"Je suis contente que ma fille n'ait pas à faire cela (on sera encore à l'étranger) parce que c'est franchement ridicule et malsain"

Si vous regarderez les commentaires des americains et des canadiens sur l'article de Charles, ou le commentaire de Maggie G sur le post sur Ghaddafi, vous changerez peut-être d'avis.

"Il y avait de la consultation avant, un Président avait des idées mais il consultait néanmoins"

Il a énnoncé un principe qu'il soutenait depuis longtemps. Au gouvernement d'en détailler les moyens et les façons.

"Alors là on a la preuve que tu ne connais pas Sarko, comme s'il allait falloir le pousser pour qu'il se représente."

Ben non justement, c'est bien ça le malheur :) Ce dont il rêve, c'est pas forcément un 2ème mandat, mais rester dans les livres d'histoire comme un 2ème De Gaulle, ou Nappo !

"Si tu crois que je suis contente de voir l'état dans lequel se trouve mon pays,"

Désolé, c'est bien toi qui as dit "je suis ravie de voir que j'avais raison"

Welcome back, tout de même, Sandrine! Toujours aussi gauchiste, je vois ! :))

[Sandrine]

Welcome back, tout de même, Sandrine! Toujours aussi gauchiste, je vois ! :))

Nan, toujours DE GAUCHE, mais merci quand même Valentin.

"Il a énnoncé un principe qu'il soutenait depuis longtemps. Au gouvernement d'en détailler les moyens et les façons."

C'est marrant parce que tout le monde a eu l'air de tomber des nues quand il a lancé cette idée qu'il soutenait depuis longtemps soi-disant...

[Terry]

Daniel:

I read your link. We have had this discussion before. Every once in a while some journalist likes to write an article how "the masses" are stupid. Of course, let's not forget who most journalists are-lefties too lazy to become lawyers (present company excluded charles). Journalists are frustrated academics whose only marketable skill is writing. Yet, somehow they think that because they are up on current events or HAD good grades in school, they are smarter than "the people". It's probably true that many people dont know much about history or geography. I know a lot about both. So what? It doesnt make me smarter than other people or make them dumb. My interests just happen to be in those areas. But many of the same people who cant find Pearl Harbor on a map can fix their own cars, build an addition on their homes or something much more practical. How many smarmy journalists who think they are so much smarter then everyone else can do that.

Most women (my wife in particular) I know can find most places on a map. Yet, something genetic seems to deter women from figuring how to drive there using that same map.

How many of those here on this site can tell us what city is the capital of Hungary?

Now, how many here can fix there own toilet when it breaks down?

........ I thought so.

[Terry]

Daniel:

I read your link. We have had this discussion before. Every once in a while some journalist likes to write an article how "the masses" are stupid. Of course, let's not forget who most journalists are-lefties too lazy to become lawyers (present company excluded charles). Journalists are frustrated academics whose only marketable skill is writing. Yet, somehow they think that because they are up on current events or HAD good grades in school, they are smarter than "the people". It's probably true that many people dont know much about history or geography. I know a lot about both. So what? It doesnt make me smarter than other people or make them dumb. My interests just happen to be in those areas. But many of the same people who cant find Pearl Harbor on a map can fix their own cars, build an addition on their homes or something much more practical. How many smarmy journalists who think they are so much smarter then everyone else can do that.

Most women (my wife in particular) I know can find most places on a map. Yet, something genetic seems to deter women from figuring how to drive there using that same map.

How many of those here on this site can tell us what city is the capital of Hungary?

Now, how many here can fix there own toilet when it breaks down?

........ I thought so.

[Valentin]

Moi ce que j'appelle "de gauche", ce serait plutôt du genre Eric Besson, Fadela Amara ou Jean-Pierre Jouyet. Ceux qui parlent de dictature, danger, démission, rafles etc, ce sont plutôt des gauchistes, je pense :)

Quant aux tombés des nues, apparemment c'était pas le cas de Ségo & François au début - c.a.d avant de se rappeler qu'il faut être contre tout ce qui vient de Sarko :

"Ségolène Royal a, elle, estimé que l'initiative "va dans le bon sens", et François Hollande a estimé que "chaque fois qu'on peut faire transmettre les exigences du devoir de mémoire, il faut le faire"."

http://www.la-croix.com/article/index.jsp?docId=2329154&rubId=788

:P

[Daniel Strohl]

Sandrine,

« au lieu de faire les réformes pour lequel il a été élu » (votre post du 17 FEB 20:09)

Faire des réformes prend du temps, surtout en France, pays plutôt d’esprit conservateur (je pense en disant cela en tout premier lieu à la CGT, ces champions de l’évolution et du modernisme – j’espère qu’au moins dans ce cas précis, vous n’allez pas me contredire – LOL !).

J’ai lu dans Le Point (version papier) de cette semaine une courte mais intéressante interview de Denis Macshane, député travailliste et ancien ministre des affaires européennes de Blair. Il dit, entre autres : « On est tous très déçus de la vitesse de vos réformes ». Plus loin, il dit encore : « Il y a des choses acceptées partout ailleurs en Europe qui sont impensables en France, par peur de la rue ». Autre citation : « Les réformes mettent du temps à produire leurs effets. Il faut voir dans dix ou quinze ans ».

Il dit encore, en réponse à la question du journaliste « Ne pas abolir purement et simplement les 35 heures a-t-il été une erreur ? » : «Oui. La richesse vient du travail, et la pauvreté vient du non-travail. En 1970, quand un Américain travaillait 100 heures, un Français en effectuait 107. C’était l’époque où la France avait une croissance supérieure à celle du monde anglo-saxon. Aujourd’hui, quand un Américain travaille 100 heures, un Français n’en fait plus que 70. Je pense que M.Sarkozy n’a pas su faire passer ce message ».

Le journaliste demande alors : « Quelles conséquences politiques cela pourrait-il avoir en France ? ». Réponse : « Cela crée une opportunité pour un Parti socialiste réformé et intelligent. Un vrai parti de gauche moderne, une sorte de blairisme à la française ».

Comme le parti socialiste était loin de présenter ces caractéristiques lors des dernières élections, j’ai fort logiquement voté pour Sarkozy, et je ne le regrette pas. Je ne juge pas un président de la république sur ses traits de caractère, réels ou supposés, mais sur ses résultats.

Opinion personnelle : si les socialistes étaient intelligents, ils laisseraient Sarkozy faire le (sale) boulot, au lieu d’essayer en permanence de le saboter, et nous avec. Et ils pourraient prendre sa place en 2012, quand il aurait tiré un certain nombre de marrons du feu … Il leur resterait encore suffisamment d’autres marrons à tirer du feu pour leur permettre de faire leurs preuves.

[Daniel Strohl]

TERRY,

"Yet, something genetic seems to deter women from figuring how to drive there using that same map.

LOL ! I have got a GPS which does the job without complaining and without (too) many errors ...

Your post is really funny - it is so good to laugh, even about serious matters!

DOT,

I was simply teasing you with "mesmériser"! The correct French translation would probably be "hypnotiser".

I checked with my Larousse en 5 volumes - mesmérisme is actually in the dictionary, but not "mesmériser". Therefore you should probably cancel this verb from your files.

[Sandrine]

Valentin, quand j'ai dit "tomber des nues" c'était dans le sens "découvrir la news". Alors que tu sous-entendais que tout le monde (donc même dans son camp) savait qu'il souhaitait cela.

Quant à décider que seuls les ministres dits d'ouverture sont des gens de Gauche et que tous ceux qui pensent autrement sont des gauchistes, c'est un peu nul, mais bon, tu penses ce que tu veux. Permets-moi juste de ne pas me considérer comme tel.

[Valentin]

Biensûr Sandrine, tout comme on doit assumer la violence, même limitée aux mots, de ses convictions :)

[azloon]

OMG, i go skiing for a few days and this place 'goes nuts.'

Lily is 'outted.'

Sandrine, who, cleverly en francais, says she no longer blogs here, is, as is not uncommon, drawn into a protracted exchange.

someone, somehow, refers to human genitals, and is called 'on the carpet' by CB who, by this time, is so disturbed (annoyed?) with this vituperative debate, that he 'caves' and erases the offending post.

the mountains of utah were so quiet and beautiful.

and Charles, while in Mormon country, i saw a wonderful documentary on the subject of french aviation -- the major french contribution to the early development of flight. i thought of you.

[millier marc]

sandrine , je ne suis pas surpris en consultant les reponses sur ce blog.
les sarkosistes sont complement aveuglés. les non sarkosistes sont des gauchistes , voir des mitterrandiens.Le débat vol vraiment trés bas.

[Daniel Strohl]

Azloon,

"i go skiing for a few days and this place 'goes nuts.'

Thanks God, you are back, Azloon! I am confident that we will from now on again have only serious, moderate and conventional discussions ...

PS : thanks to the highly academic discussions between Terry and you about Roy Bean, Prescott's whiskey row and some other related matters, I have now a much better understanding of American justice as we see it working in series like for instance Ben Matlock and many others ...

Terry
I even k