France stops smoking and Sarko carries on

The French New Year has kicked off with two implausible events. Smoking has been banned from cafes and restaurants and Nicolas Sarkozy has admitted that he has made mistakes.

Jogging past the local bistrot this morning (I had to get that in), I found a gaggle of bleary-eyed neighbours lighting up in the cold street. With disbelief, they told me that they had been asked to leave when they started their café-clope -- the ritual expresso and smoke that gets you going in the morning. The great smoking ban has finally taken effect and another Gallic institution has bitten the dust. Here's the rest on smoke-free France from today's paper.

Super-Sarko, back from his jaunt on the Nile with Carla Bruni, delivered his mea culpa in a New Year's address to the nation that was striking for its lack of innovation.  The reformer who promised "rupture" with the past and has transformed the presidency could have been any of his old predecessors, from Charles de Gaulle to Jacques Chirac, as he delivered the traditional pep talk to his subjects [watch video here].

The old presidents recorded their 8pm chats. Sarkozy may regret having decided to be the first to do it live because the Teleprompter was running too fast, forcing him to speed-read his words. But Sarko had clearly decided to restore a little gravitas after his Egyptian escapade. He eschewed the relaxed, crossed-legged, cool-guy pose of recent appearances and sat regally behind his desk in the Elysée Palace looking and sounding like a smaller version of Chirac.

He struck the same paternal tones as his predecessors, sympathising with the expectations of his "chers compatriotes" and promising to do his best to fulfill them.

He recycled his campaign pledges of truth and action and even filched a 1971 line from President Georges Pompidou, promising a French "renaissance". Aware that impatience is building, Sarko argued that 2007 was just the groundwork for the new "civilisation" that he is forging.  "Despite the obstacles, despite the difficulties, I will do what I promised to do," he said. The moment of unaccustomed humility came when he said "I may have made mistakes".

He did not say what these might have been, but one that springs to mind is the package of tax cuts for the better-off last sumer that were politically damaging for him and which has so far failed to prime the economy. Another is his breach of his campaign promise -- albeit a naive one -- to make human rights a priority in French foreign policy. Related to this was the error of inviting Muammar Gaddafi to spend a week making a fool of him in Paris last month.

The big promise that Sarko has not yet fulfilled is the one that the French are most worried about: spending power. He vowed last spring to become "the president who raises le pouvoir d'achat" yet the French feel poorer now than then. A warning for Sarko came with polls last week that showed that although he remains relatively popular, only one in five people now think that he is capable of bringing them greater personal prosperity.

Sarkozy is sticking to another tradition: smoking. He has shown no sign of giving up his attachment to good Havana cigars. He doesn't indulge on television but he allowed himself to be photographed by Paris Match puffing away at the same Elysée desk last month.

The president is promising real news for us on January 8 when he is to hold a New Year press conference. Soon after that, we are to have Cécilia's version, a book in which the president's last wife supposedly tells all.  Meanwhile, other recent French New Year's traditions continue. Celebrating youths torched "only" 372 cars around the country and fighting broke out with riot police as 400,000 people were gathered at midnight on the Champs Elysées (video below).  From me, Bonne Année à tout le monde

Comments

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

2008: Start with a story from The Storyteller. A famous smoker of cigars was, of course, Winston Churchill, which activated a keen PRO for the American Pipesmokers' Association to propose payment of a large sum of dollars to the old man if he would agree to pose with a pipe for a huge advertising campaign. The chosen pilot-fish was Guido Orlando, the man who claimed he told Greta Garbo to hide her face and thus attract the photogs. Guido was told in his school in Italy that the boy who wrote the best essay or composition on "Why I want to go to America" would win a holiday there. Guido wanted to find his father who had abandoned him, so, showing early Public Relations enterprise, he bribed the village doctor's son to write the winning essay, and Guido left Italy to find his Poppa. On the run in the States, at the end of his "holiday", he eventually located his disappearing Dad who told him to "get lost, kid. Go back to Italy."
In the great American tradition, little Guido supported himself with odd jobs, got himself "adopted" by a kind American family, and aimed for Hollywood, and considerable success as a publicity man.
The Pipemakers sent him to London to make their proposal to the famous man, and he waited for his opportuntiy to make his pitch. It came at at a ceremony Churchill was attending and Guido leapt from the onlookers and told the cigar smoker of the huge amount of dollars the Pipemakers were offering for a photograph of him smoking a pipe.
Churchill removed the cigar from his lips and, glaring down on little (5ft 6ins) Guido, he snarled: "Get out of my way, you horrible little man."
The old Tory aristocrat did not believe much in Egalite or Fraternite but as we enter 2008 no doubt he is turning in his grave about "Liberte".

[Lily]

The microphone in front of Sarko's hands almost looks like he's holding a cigar on the above photo (France 2).

He might still stop smoking in public and in front of cameras as of 2008, non?

et: Merci et Bonne Année aussi!

[Marguerite.]

Je prefere le Sarko pseudo gaullo-pompidolien, comme hier soir, au Sarko Rolex-jambe-sur-cuisse meme si les lendemains qu'il nous promet chantants ne sont pas forcement rassurants.

[belka]

Politic as usual.
if in 2008 he does get to consistant results, one could guess, without that much risk, this will be the gouvernment's-disfunction-and-intenational-conjuncture. But if it works, it'll be thanks to the new politic-of-civilization that our president brought us for gift this night. Still didn't digest that new concept.

Bonne année.

[Blendi]

The moment of unaccustomed humility came when he said "I may have made mistakes".
------/

Sooner or later S. Sarko must realise that is all well and good admitting to some mistakes, but is better not make unnecessary childish ones and behave like a grown-up.

Still, at least he understands that. The next step is to put it in practice and behave in a more statesman-like manner.
---------------------------------

A Very Happy New Year to all the contributors of this blog and especially to Charles.

[Terry]

There are few measures government can actively take to improve purchasing power and the economy. The government is far better at hampering the economy. The thing Sarko can do is remove the harnesses previous governments have placed on the private sector through regulation and taxation. Especially, MIDDLE class taxation. (something also never done in the US). He could also make it easier to fire employees. Reduce gas taxes (everything is transported by truck causing higher prices on everything). Of course, the minute he tries to remove one of these intiatives, french leftists start burning everything in sight.

[rockinred]

Oh dear, 2008 is barely a day old and here's LoonyToons Terry trying to tell le President what to do, with his nutty Chicago School economic theories. Get this, Terry - 2008 will see the ignominious retreat of neoliberal free-market ideas as it becomes increasingly obvious that they're plain nonsense. 'Reduce gas taxes' - what idiocy! Sarkozy has admitted to some mistakes - perhaps listening to free-market headcases was among them

[Frank Schnittger]

You must have written 50 Sarko stories in 2007 Charles! Are you aiming for a new record in 2008? You are the hyper-cyber journalist to Sarko's hyper-President!

Don't be so hard on Terry, rockinred. He must be thinking of emigrating to France when the socialist Democrats take over the White House and then he will really appreciate some tax breaks for middle class lawyers and for his gas guzzling pick-up truck and airplane.

Mind you, since the invasion of Iraq has been such a success perhaps he will emigrate to Iraq instead. There are lots of openings for contractors there I hear.

May I wish all and thundery a prosperous and peaceful new year!

[John]

Concerning the French and their "pouvoir d'achat", I found an interesting bit in a book about anti-Americanism in France written by a history professor at Georgetown, Stanford and other universities.

Charles Bremner, you've probably heard many times your French colleagues refer to the golden age of the Trentes Glorieuses. French people continuously refer with nostalgia to the Trente Glorieuses, the incredible economic expansion that France experienced then, the tremendous increase of spending power, and the crisis that the country has suposedly been enduring ever since the end of the Trentes Glorieuses in 1973.

It is true that the Trente Glorieuses were a period of impressive increase of the spending power of French people. The author of the book says that per capita income increased 80 percent from 1958 to 1974 under Presidents de Gaulle and Pompidou. In 1967 de Gaulle boasted that France had surpassed other Western European countries in per capita national product and was second only to the United States in this respect.

And yet this is the bit that I found at first astonishing, and after a bit of thinking not so surprising, and very telling about today's French mentality. Here is the link, and the bit is on page 152:
http://content.cdlib.org/xtf/view?docId=ft4w10060w&chunk.id=d0e3081&toc.depth=1&toc.id=&brand=eschol

I quote:
"Oddly enough the rush of abundance did not mean the French believed their daily life was more comfortable. Polls showed the majority did not perceive that either their standard of living or their purchasing power had increased. Only 20 percent saw an improvement in their purchasing power and 30 percent saw a decline, while 50 percent noticed no change. Compared to their neighbors, the French were extraordinarily pessimistic about economic progress and far more likely to expect the future to be worse than the present. [...] The French failed to credit de Gaulle with improving their lives. At the end of his presidency in 1969 only 5 percent of those polled believed their standard of living had improved while 41 percent said it was unchanged and 49 percent thought it had declined."

So I think no matter what Nicolas Sarkozy and his government do, and no matter the level of French economic growth, French people will always be negative about their spending power. It would probably take a big cultural change of French mentality to transform this negative perception of French people into a more objective perception of their economic condition. Maybe sending the 64 million French people for a year in Ethiopia would do ?

[john o'doe]

I, for one, was unconvinced by this performance. The contrast between the roles of 'Sarko the celebrity on holiday on the Nile' and 'Sarko the President addressing the admiring multitudes of a great nation' was just too great for this developing actor.
Who was he thinking of when he said "Je ne vous tromperai pas, je ne vous trahirai pas" ?
It looks like he knows he's been rumbled and, like Jack Bauer, he's running out of time.

[dot king]

John O'Doe: Jack Bauer usually shoots his way out, doesn't he? Ho ho - ça promet! :)

[Anneflore]

C'est toujours intéressant de voir comment on nous voit. Encore une bonne année en perspective...

[Rocket]

John,

Interesting take on the French society and the pervasive negativeness. Unfortunately I believe that far from being an economic reality, it has pervaded the French mind more so as political correctness to be negative.

So we have to ask ourselves why.

One.. In my opinion there is this notion of government sponsored "repartition" (ie - High social charges, taxes etc) which has led the French to believe that all ills can be cured by simply throwing money at the problem. The same arguments that we hear in the US today. When the French press daily hounds the public about people living on the streets, loss of purchasing power, factory closings, "la crise" and etc, it is difficult for the French to believe that things are going well. Especially in a society that has not been permitted to fully experiment with free markets.

Just read and listen to the culture change crisis in the press about the Jan 1 smoking ban.

It seems as if it is politically correct to panic and go into emotional breakdown at the thought of the slightest reform and to make sure that that panic makes it onto the front pages of the press. They need to sell papers.

The question is.. Behind closed doors do the French really care about others rather than themselves and their families? I think this notion of solidarity in France is more defensive than it is offensive in order to protect the image of the French social model. But for public and world wide consumption and image, solidarity is the word.

Secondly... I listened to Segelene Royal's Christmas wishes

http://www.desirsdavenir.org/

I can't count the number of times she used the words crisis, abandon, suffering, struggle, counting on others, counting on the state etc.

A good mother indeed she is! Just what the French need to be globally competitive.

Not what I would call a very optimistic view of the necessity for people to roll up their sleeves. But this is the socialist view (some will say "her view") of the French society. I however cannot believe in socialism where no one is left behind. Sometimes people need to be left behind to get ahead. Mme Royal's entire negativeness (is she really a nun?) in hopes of a radical change (a "big bang" to quote M Rocard) in the vote for the municipales. I must admit that F. Holland's wishes were more toned down than Mme Royal's as per suffering etc.

http://www.parti-socialiste.fr/

Thirdly...If you have been brought up in the French society you will have noticed that there is a very high degree of suspicion between people to people and people to politicians. In other words, even for the simplest of questions who can you believe? There is a very strong and urgent need to improve the customer client relationship as well as people to people relationship.

Lastly..French education from very young age chastises failure. Start a company and fail and you are banned for 5 years. Get laid off from a company for whatever reason and good luck in your job search. Get a traffic violation and you have to stay spotless for 3 years to get your points back.

The whole notion of "failure" and learning from "failure" has to be reworked in France.

I believe Sarkozy's intentions are good. I was not impressed by his New Years wishes nor am I impressed by what he has done for the last 8 months but I do realize that he is the best person for the moment to bring about long term change. He however still believes in "la force tranquille" (to use a phrase coined by publicist Jacques Segela for the first Mitterrand presidential campaign) to bring about change which in my mind means "on n'est pas sorti de l'auberge" in France. There have been too may "forces tranquilles" in France over the past quarter century that have only spoken of soft fluff rather than to seriously attempted reform. He needs to stop being so showy and be closer to the working man and woman in France. For the moment he seems to be saying...Hey look at me! and as everything in life (including popularity)is cyclic this will one day turn against him.

I have no idea how or why the government is getting involved in the whole debate on purchasing power. It's a no win situation and could eventually turn on Sarkozy. The market should take care of this problem.

[tk]

I never thought i will say this, but i have a new found admiration for prez Sarkozy!!!!! So far, He withstood the power of the unions, divorcing his wife and the cynicism of us all. Now he has a supermodel girlfriend, an army at his call and the Elysee... Certainly worthy of a GQ man of the year award!!

[Terry]

Rockinred said:

"2008 will see the ignominious retreat of neoliberal free-market ideas as it becomes increasingly obvious that they're plain nonsense. 'Reduce gas taxes' - what idiocy!"

Of course, Rockinred didn't challenge anything I said with facts or argument. "Nonsense" and "idiocy" do not suffice as such. But they are wonderful tools for someone who obviously cannot argue economics.

BTW: I more from the Austrian School of Economics, thank you. The Chicago School is too leftish for my tastes. Still, Uncle Milty got it right for the most part.

[Dominique]

Let's loose Sarko in China's jails for two years...he'll be back in a better shape and with humility

[Sam Young]

Terry is right; the best thing a government can do to generate wealth is to leave people alone.
In France, much attention is given in the media to people who generate little to no wealth. And various measures are introduced to help them. Which is tantamount to trying to fill a bottomless hole.
Instead, the government would be better off trying to help those who do generate wealth. In the course of the past week alone, i met the following real people: case (1) an American interpreter who is constantly refusing work since, as a self-employed “profession libérale” with high earning potential (an afternoon of in-booth simultaneous interpreting costs between 600 and 750 euro), she very quickly reaches a point of diminishing returns. She prefers stay at home with her kids. I also met case (2) a French self-employed antiques dealer who, like the American lady, is deliberately keeping operations low key. In particular, this means a conscious decision not to employ an assistant (too much hassle and potential difficulties in letting the assistant go should there be a downturn).
These are just 2 examples. There must be thousands. Both of these people are annoyed with a system that discourages them from working. If they were to earn more, it would be better for all concerned.
So, to all you nutty lefties on this blog lost in your ridiculous theories, may i invite to put some real world into your ridiculous pipes and smoke it.

[Terry]

John said:

"So I think no matter what Nicolas Sarkozy and his government do, and no matter the level of French economic growth, French people will always be negative about their spending power."

This could be true. I dont know French culture all that well. However, it may be that the French WERE correct that their spending power did not increase. I think too many times people focus on vague macro statistics like "Gross Domestic Product" rather than looking at the numbers from an individual's perspective. (I think either Rocket or Robert disagree with me on this). GDP is all the goods and services etc. that a country produces divided by the population. I dont think this statistic is a necessarily a good indicator how individuals do. Do I, for example, actually receive a share of that GDP number? No. I think the true indicator is how one does on an individual level. Has one's income increased? Have his costs to buy items such as food, fuel and housing, etc. increased well above any increase in income? This may explain the disparity in your polls. Someone says GDP has increased so analysts assume that everyone is doing better. Not necessarily so. Actual income may not have increased. Costs may have dramitically risen. So, the French do not feel that they have more purchasing power because they, in reality, do not.

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

Smoking drew 16 Comments
Flying drew 20
Eating drew 22
Christmas 43
SEX (& Sarko) 100
But the Year is young...
Blog On .. Blog on.. chers Citoyens

[QCD]

John, you're addressing the interesting notion of the 'pensée unique'. I think this has more to do with 'Fraternité' than the 'Egalité' favoured by Terry and other right-wing reviewers on this blog.

For example a UK paper front-pages NHS plans to reduce care for the unhealthy (Daily Mail, yesterday). An immediate and typical French reaction is that such a move is unfair. And the nation's intellectual creed underpins the need for fairness. Some will consider that each has a responsibility to keep fit - the French will add the proviso that the unhealthiest and poorest must always be cared for.

Happy New Year!

[Terry]

Sam Young:

"In particular, this means a conscious decision not to employ an assistant (too much hassle and potential difficulties in letting the assistant go should there be a downturn)."

Good point. I think Ive mentioned this before. I hired a 19 year old graduate from a secretary school with no experience. I did so because I thought she'd work out and firing her is not a problem in the US if she didnt'. She turned out to be the best I ever had. Unfortunately, she left me after 8 months because she got a 50% increase by going to a very large law firm. She used the experience at my firm to get a better job. Good for her.

In France, who would hire her? She had no experience. If she wasnt capable, you couldnt get rid of her. So, what employer would want to take a chance on her? The consequence of the French policy is a 22% (or something like that) percent unemployment rate for young persons.

In America, a hardworking inexperienced secretary gets hired and shoots herself up the payscale (while I get dumped). In France, she would still be collecting benefits. It sounds counter-intuitive to righteous, hot headed leftists. But this is how liberal firing policies actually INCREASE employment. These are the types of impediments that Sarkozy can start removing.

You are right, Sam. There are many stories like this.

[Rocket]

Terry

Problem is that on basic foodstuffs the French really got hit on the Euro changeover as did many other countries that adapted the Euro. I knew it would happen having experience with dollar pricing. A 1€ rise seems less drastic than a 6.5597 FF rise. I pity the poor Italians. Previously 1,200 lira for a coffee now 1€ or 1936.27 lira or about 60% up in 7 years.(The Germans are furious) Problem is that there are a lot of people out there that a 5%/year rise in food prices will be put flat on their backs. Average salary increases for blue collar is about 1%-1.5% per year. These same people don't even want to hear about 35 hour week which shot their purchasing power to hell but gave them extra days off. Thus over 7 years loss of purchasing power of at least 25% on foodstuffs alone. However, growth of hard discounters in Supermarket industry has helped somewhat.

The commodities that have decreased in price, these same people can't afford anyway. ie. - Airfare, computer technology, new cars.

So, in the "plaintif" French press we hear a lot about the "petite peuple" (lower classes) but very little from middle classes who are able to absorb this kind of price rise easier.

It's still kind of Charles Dickens around here.

[azloon]

Sam/Terry

this debate isn't just about the economic righties vs. lefties, joseph schumpeter vs. john maynard keynes, milton friedman vs. john kenneth galbraith.

it's more about french intransigence in the face of economic challenge -- their apparent ideological rigidity, secular worhip of the le mode francais, hyper-senstivity to admitting that they might do well to immitate others, at least in some areas.

i find it amusing that Valentin often references japan's monoculture to justify france's relative isolation from the world around it. today, i found the link below about japan immitating indian educational methods in a effort to increase it's children's competitiveness in the new world economy. CAN YOU IMAGINE FRANCE SEEKING NON-FRENCH ADVICE TO IMPROVE THEIR SCHOOLS?? since they don't see any problem, not likely.

france may persist in believing the government can spend it's way out of it's current predicament, but that's a doubtful proposition in the new ultra-comptetive world economy. i am starting to wonder if sarko is really going to make a difference in creating true change. in dealing with his countrymen, he is swimming upstream, imo, against a cultural bias that may take a true catastrophe to uproot. it make take sarko and a sarko or two after him to make a dent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/business/worldbusiness/02japan.html?hp

[Terry]

QCD said:

"For example a UK paper front-pages NHS plans to reduce care for the unhealthy (Daily Mail, yesterday). An immediate and typical French reaction is that such a move is unfair."

An interesting point. Just to give you my "egalite" opinion, I also think this is unfair. If the government is going to pay for EVERYONE's healthcare (which I am against), then it should pay for it unequivocably. So, now NHS doesnt want to provide healthcare to "unhealthy" (obese, i guess) people. What about smokers? Those who drink? How about those who get hurt riding bicycles without helmits? Driving without seatbelts? High fatty diets? People who dont floss enough? I can go on with a list of bad behaviors and poor choices that result in medical treatment. By government choosing this or that behavior to cover or deny will soon become rather arbitrary in it's enforcement.

England wanted universal coverage. It got it. It instituted universal coverage so that the poor would have health coverage. But if that poor person just happens to also be unhealthy/fat, he doesnt get coverage. How does that make sense? Answer: It doesnt have to. It's a government program.

What happens when some bureaucrats get it in their minds that it's economically ineffecient to rescutitate an 85 year old man and house him in a nursing home?

[Valentin]

Rocket is right about the 4 reasons of pessimism of the French, and there is maybe a 5th, a certain inclination to emotional and exaggerated sentimentalism. Or negative sentimentalism is always more audible than positive one, be it in the form of compassion or downright continuous complaining. In France there's often an accent on emotion and very rarely on strength.

The problem with the purchasing power is that since 2001 not only in France, but all over Europe people have the feeling their expenses grow sensibly more than their gains.
You can shove 1000 more economical statistics at them saying differently, that doesnt matter one bit, especially that EU's economics are quite good since 2004. This feeling is so accute that politicians need to show they acknowledge it.

I too said once that to demand purchasing power is like demanding rain tomorrow at 13h15.
But when the economy goes well, when there are so many cheap products imported from China, when salaries consistently increase by 2-3% per year, and people still feel their purchasing power is to an all time low, somewhere there's a problem.
A politician needs to say that and get busy with it, because obviously the market and the statistics are on total denial about it.

[dot king]

Sam Young: "These are just 2 examples. There must be thousands. Both of these people are annoyed with a system that discourages them from working. If they were to earn more, it would be better for all concerned.
So, to all you nutty lefties on this blog lost in your ridiculous theories, may i invite to put some real world into your ridiculous pipes and smoke it."

What you describe is exactly the reason why I took a salaried part-time teaching job rather than set up my own business working from home.
So far, I don't think anyone on this blog has mistaken me for a "rightie" ;0

[dot king]

Terry: "In France, she would still be collecting benefits." No she wouldn't. She would have monthly grillings for a year and then everything would just stop if she hadn't taken a job. Things have moved on recently . . .

[Dominique]

QCD,

"Some will consider that each has a responsibility to keep fit - the French will add the proviso that the unhealthiest and poorest must always be cared for."

Yes indeed...poor french sticking to some poor old stupid habit : ethic.

Please note that all doctors do accept the "Hippocratic Oath" that clearly answer your question. Even the worst serial killer deserves to be taken care of. Whether he smokes or not...

I'll agree with Terry for once. Doctors have a duty not to choose who they take care of. Otherwise, they choose only according to their morale, or their patient's wallet. Some already do and we regularly hear about some doctor refusing to do his job because the patient is a CMU holder (Couverture Maladie Universelle). They sometimes go on court but usually don't loose their right to practice. what a shame

[Rocket]

Azloon

CAN YOU IMAGINE FRANCE SEEKING NON-FRENCH ADVICE TO IMPROVE THEIR SCHOOLS?? since they don't see any problem, not likely.

Spot on but there is a strong wind blowing in France and emanating from the Presidents office that is pushing for new ideas coming from elsewhere than France. This was impossible 5 years ago or even up to the last day of Chirac's mandate. Sorry but you have to really follow the news and in French at that to see that a lot of cross pollinating if I may use the term is being experimented with.(I can serve as your translator for a small fee if you'd like..smile). Things such as Sarkozy's (Christine Lagarde who I think actually said it) "the French think too much" You have to understand the French to understand the revolution this represents just to say something like this. Also comments like "The emotionalism of the French" and "the constant dramatization of everything" among others are all statements that came out in the French press from those who now govern and have only been well documented by our good friend Charles Bremner. Rarely taken up by the outside press.

Today we have a mini revolution in France and peaceful at that. No more smoking in bars discos etc. I was in several cafés today and there really is a noticeable difference in what in the past has been a very distinctive French trait. Smokey cafés and floors filled with cigarette butts. And this is not just for a while. It's forever! Kinda like death! And people are respecting it.

"i am starting to wonder if sarko is really going to make a difference in creating true change. in dealing with his countrymen, he is swimming upstream, imo, against a cultural bias that may take a true catastrophe to uproot. it make take sarko and a sarko or two after him to make a dent.

Well me too but let's give it a try anyway. As per Sarko2, that is a possibility in 2012. But no possibility of sarko3 unless he does a Putin (chuckle.

Valentin

"Rocket is right about the 4 reasons of pessimism of the French, and there is maybe a 5th, a certain inclination to emotional and exaggerated sentimentalism. Or negative sentimentalism is always more audible than positive one, be it in the form of compassion or downright continuous complaining. In France there's often an accent on emotion and very rarely on strength."

Well spoken or written should I say. I like the term negative sentimentalism, that does say it all.

Terry

Is that a copy and paste that last comment from another post some time ago. I don't why It seems I have already read that from you but maybe I'm wrong or maybe I dreamt it or maybe I'm just losing my mind.

Terry

"An interesting point. Just to give you my "egalite" opinion, I also think this is unfair. If the government is going to pay for EVERYONE's healthcare (which I am against), then it should pay for it unequivocably."

Are you subscribing to the Marxist theory of:

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

http://tinyurl.com/wvrqw

Shame on you!

PS - I went over to the Closerie and ordered the chicken the other day and they remembered you. When I told them that I only earn half of what you earn per year they gave it to me for half price and they threw in the coke for free.(giggle)

[Frank Schnittger]

Terry is right to bemoan the fate of the Middle Classes in the US. Virtually all the real increase(over and above inflation) in purchasing power in the US over the past 20 years has gone to the top 0.1% of the population.

The other 99.9% of the population have only been able to improve their standard of living by going into more and more debt - which has now led to the credit crisis (which is much wider and deeper than just a sub-prime mortgage crisis).

Although the neo-liberal economic policy has thus being able to grow GDP quite successfully, virtually all the benefits have gone to the super-rich (with whom Sarkozy now so closely identifies).

However the combination of high oil dependency, huge foreign capital inflow dependency, and now the credit crisis and falling dollar will mean that that growth will come to an end. The consequence will be recession in the US, huge political instability, and a flight of mobile capital to Europe.

Don't say I didn't warn you http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2007/12/29/9585/7008

[christopher muir]

What happened to the technician who set up the President's Teleprompter at too fast a speed?

[Valentin]

"What happened to the technician who set up the President's Teleprompter at too fast a speed"

He was hung, drawn, cut down alive, quartered and beheaded in the backyard of the Elysee Palace, right after the show!

[Lily]

"Don't say I didn't warn you" (Frank)

Frank,

for fairness' sake, you should also recommend this one, I think:

http://www.eurotrib.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2008/1/1/11415/37691

[Lily]

"What happened to the technician who set up the President's Teleprompter at too fast a speed?" (Christopher Muir)

Excellent!

Is it possible to investigate the question? - Charles? (Well it would only be interesting if the consequences were serious enough...)

[QCD]

Dominique, I'm afraid you've got the wrong end of the stick. In a world of limited resources, hospitals force patients to wait in line for operations. Too much theory and not enough facts, that's your problem. You obviously know very little about the NHS.

More to the point, my example served merely to highlight the values which you express so eloquently. As a Frenchman, your upbringing allows you to understand what makes France stand as a beacon of light and hope in the world.

Liberté Egalité Fraternité.

For you, this is clear. For an American, or a Brit, Egalité cancels out Liberté and Fraternité loosely translates as 'Solidarity'. But it's not the same thing, not the same thing at all. Solidarity means standing up for your class. Solidarity worked in Gdansk. It failed for SUD and CGT. Fraternity means going beyond your class and appealing to humanity. Or, if that should exceed your grasp, try thinking of France. It's the same thing underneath.

[Mads]

A Hungarian friend found their way to us on New Year's Eve. He was in the Foreign Legion and now lives in France. He told us of an old saying in Eastern Europe: If a Hungarian goes into revolving doors behind you, he will come out in front of you!

I also think the phrase 'negative sentimentalism' is a very apt phrase. I was very surprised when I first came to live in the Auvergne at how 'heavy' and 'negative' French society seems to be. Round here the answer to 'Ca va?' is usually 'Pas bon' or 'Pas si mal'. This has to be said with a heavy Auvergnat accent to feel the full 'weight' and implication of those two answers.

It took someone I know nearly a year to set himself up as an enterprise electrician. Now he has to charge at least 40euro an hour just to make ends meet. An assistant? Forget it. Life is too short to go through the bureaucracy. Like others have said they have to do, our friend can only work so many hours before it becomes pointless and he loses money.

A Happy New Year to one and all.
Charles is there a 'French' correspondent or do you have to do Paris and France? Is that why we have so much Sarko?

[It's Paris and France, but inevitably politics comes first for the newspaper, especially with the Sarko regime. It's always a little frustrating not to have the time to travel around and muse on the less obvious events in France. I'm always happy to have suggestions. CB]

[Frank Schnittger]

"Frank,

for fairness' sake, you should also recommend this one, I think:

http://www.eurotrib.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2008/1/1/11415/37691"

Thanks Lily, I didn't realise you were a fan! However my blog which you referenced isn't about economics , its about how the ET Forum deals with conflict, which, on balance, I think it does very well. I look forward to your contributions there.

Jerome a Paris, the author of the blog I references is much more qualified in economics than I am, and he has an almost unique track record of forecasting the $100 oil crisis and the credit crisis.

[Terry]

Rocket said:

"Are you subscribing to the Marxist theory of:

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

http://tinyurl.com/wvrqw

Shame on you!"

Don't worry, Rocket. I have not gone over to the Dark Side. I am against universal coverage because the government has no business interfering with the health care market. And, once they do, they will screw it up beyond belief. Bureaucrats have enough difficulty administering driver's licenses. But, if you are going to force everyone to be in the system, then I think you just have to pay for everyone. When you let government start making decisions on who gets treatment and who doesnt based on behavior, you are treading down a dark path.

England has chosen to pay for everyone's health care. Now, let them suffer the consequences of ridiculous costs.

To get this back on France, I read that the average French doctor makes 50-75K euro. Is this true? This is about 5x less, I think, than the average american doctor. If true, certainly doctors are not being rewarded properly considering the length of their medical training and delayed gratification.

[Lily]

Frank,

Does spying make me a fan?

I had considered joining ET but I think I am more comfortable with the broader spectrum of participants at Charles’ more ‘populistic’ blog where we differ greatly in our views, may derail from a topic and still feel tolerated. I prefer it over the rather closed (intellectually superior but biased) circle at ET.

Sorry, I won't further disturb the economic debate that is going on here.

[Terry]

Frank said:

"Terry is right to bemoan the fate of the Middle Classes in the US."

Oh my, Frank agrees with me. Unfortunately, for the wrong reasons. One thing leftists never quite do is define who are the rich(upper class). In the US, the democratic party (read socialists) define the rich through their confiscatory tax policies as those with a combined income of $100K. Try living in NYC with rent of $35,000 (before 50% total taxes) and you will see how rich you are. (of course, $100K in Montana, and you might be rich). The reason why the left define the rich this way is that they cant pay for all their socialist programs unless they tax the middle class at high levels. This is because, numerically, there are not enough rich to tax to cover the expenditures. Even if you confiscated all the wealthy's money, you would still not be even close to covering one year's budget.

What Sarko could do is start lower MIDDLE class taxes, cut fees on real estate transfers and other bureacracy fees, reduce gas taxes, etc. In short, the only way government can help with purchasing power is to reduce the governments costs imposed on its citizens. I, for example, pay $1,000 a year in tolls just to drive 23 miles to work. That's a $1000 that could be spent buying food, clothing, whatever. It would make it's way back into the economy. Instead, it goes into the government rathole where the money is divied up among politicians' friends. Never, it seems, into the potholed roads I drive on.

As for this comment:

"The consequence will be recession in the US, huge political instability, and a flight of mobile capital to Europe.

Don't say I didn't warn you." (Another shameless plug for Frank's blog-dont worry I will come and give all your socialist buddies a good thrashing)

I would say that is wishful thinking more than anything based in reality. European leftists, when not making offerings to Gaia, gleefully pray for the destruction of the US free market system so their silly socialist ideas may rise in their place.

BTW to Rocket: Yes, I have written that thing about my former secretary before. I wont charge for the same lesson twice.

Of all the comments posted here on economics that of Frank S. is the most lucid. And in the dont say I didnt warn you vein - all those comments (now) from those on the right about how Sarko might fail are only echoes of my remarks 6 months ago (perhaps he doesnt care-he has friends outsde politics). Also the only problem I have with the underlying class-analysis present in both Franks and Terrys account (tripartite division; working class, middle class, upper class.) is that it doesnt deal with specil interest groups like small businesses and commercants (of which there aremany in France: bakers butchers plumbers printers etc.) These groups organizations made sure long ago that their ,metiers, would be protected. Many financial and paper obstacles were placed in the way of new competitors seeking to enter the market so as to reduce competition. Thus they sought to retain a kind of medieval guild system. This is the source of resistance to any new developments as much as any worker opposition. Iknow - we tried to start a business). This is why Sarko will fail: a core element of his voter-base lies in this sector and they are truly conservative.If the rules ptotecting small businesses were looosened up innovation might flourish. That is one of the key differences between the U.K./american commercial culture and the French version.

[Dominique]

QCD,

"Liberté Egalité Fraternité.
For you, this is clear."

Not quite. Those 3 words are all stuck into their contradiction. This is what makes the concept creative and ambitious. The balance is hard to define, if even possible.

This is the very quality of an ideal : it is so demanding that it is impossible to match

[Valentin]

"Is that why we have so much Sarko?"

In Yasmina Reza's book you can find the following reply from Sarko to a bunch of Le Monde journalists:

"Je suis quand même une source inépuisable pour vos articles...." :)))

[QCD]

Mads, have you never heard an English person reply 'not bad, thanks' to a similar question? Are you disingenuous, or is Auvergne as bleak as people make out?

Lily, you were right. The link does make Frank seem more human (and you, by knock-on effect). Happy New Year!

Pierre

[QCD]

Dominique, I quite agree.

[John Gregory Flinn]

The flag still dwarfs him!

[Frank Schnittger]

"Does spying make me a fan?" - Lily

Nah we call those who read but don't contribute "lurkers" and they are more than welcome. You are right that some of the debates on ET are very specialised - a current one on metaphysics got 200+comments - but there are also a lot of trivial and absurdist debates and chit chat - one currently on "how many people does it take to change a light bulb is quite funny. http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2008/1/2/171156/7729

Terry thinks the site is left wing, but any claim which isn't evidence based is open to challenge. For instance, Terry's comments above would be challenged on the basis that I quite explicitly defined the super-rich as the top 0.1 % of the population which is hardly middle-class people on $100k.

But Terry doesn't like accuracy or evidence and so he ignores the fact that France and Britain's universal health care systems cost a lot less than the far less than universal US health care model - largely because of the huge bureaucratic costs embedded in the US system: The very reverse of what "neo-liberals" claim to be the case for free market systems.

At the end of the day I couldn't give a toss whether people or ideas are defined as left or right wing, what matters is the evidence and the quality of the argument. For instance in my recent blog on the US elections http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2007/12/29/104333/76
I argued that the evidence to date is that the too most conservative of the major candidates will most likely win their party's nominations - Huckabee and Clinton - and I will be updating that forecast in a new blog tomorrow based on the EVIDENCE of the Iowa Caucuses and more recent opinion polls.

What I liked about here is the slapstick debate, the humour, and people's personalities shining through their posts, but if you want to get into a topic more seriously and actually look at the evidence, then http://www.eurotrib.com/ gives you a lot more scope.

Besides which the Typepad software used by Timesonline is absolutely awful, even when it does work. You have to type out those silly hieroglyphs every time and wait until your post is moderated before it can be seen by others. It doesn't support spell-checking, formatted text, embedded links, pictures, multiple threads or cross-referencing to all your other posts.

I just have to click on my name on in Euro Tribune and see all my diaries and comments in the same place - including all the comments others have made on them. If you are serious about blogging, serious about learning and looking for evidence to back up or challenge yours views then I can very much recommend it.

I will be leaving Timesonline completely shortly because even after more than a year of promising it still hasn't produced an online version of its Irish edition or an Irish blog. France is interesting but I have other interests as well. I will miss you all but the format here doesn't really give much scope to anything other than a few light hearted or provocative comments which means we go round in circles in the same arguments again and again.

So au revoir, and many thanks, to you Charles, and to all of my fellow bloggers for all the fun I have had here over the past year or so. If you’re interested feel free to comment on any of my blogs (diaries) at http://www.eurotrib.com/user/Frank%20Schnittger – otherwise please keep Charles’ on his toes – I think he is too much in his comfort zone with all those Sarkozy posts - but he and you couldn’t be a nicer bunch of people to have blogged with.

[Dominique]

Terry,

"To get this back on France, I read that the average French doctor makes 50-75K euro. Is this true? This is about 5x less, I think, than the average american doctor. If true, certainly doctors are not being rewarded properly considering the length of their medical training and delayed gratification."

maybe, but at least, patients are "rewarded" properly considering the gravity of their disease!! ;=))

[Terry]

Frank:

As to ET not being a leftist site, I couldnt help but notice your email address at ET on your diary page. It is:

"Frankschnittger at hotmail dotty communists".

Hmmm. Interesting choice of web addresses, Frank. State's Exhibit 1, I call it since you require evidence.

Why do so many lefties hide their political persuasions? At least Dominique doesnt.

It is an interesting site. Although devoid of political diversity. It's basically a lot of leftists sitting around rooting for the collapse of the free market system. One writes and the rest say "amen" or pick on some small minor point.

Adieu, Frank, parting is sweet sorrow. Although, I'll probably swing by ET to give you reds a tussle here and there.

BTW: You did define the "super" rich. But you never defined the mere "rich". Those who your policies would also tax to death. The left doesnt like disposable income in people's hands including the middle class. It gives them freedom, power and, worst of all, independence from government. How else will the social engineers rule.

BTTW: Trolling for bloggers here is rather capitalistic of you. Maybe I'll go down to the emergency room and pass out my card.

[Terry]

Anonymous blogger wrote:

"Also the only problem I have with the underlying class-analysis present in both Franks and Terrys account (tripartite division; working class, middle class, upper class.) is that it doesnt deal with specil interest groups like small businesses and commercants (of which there aremany in France: bakers butchers plumbers printers etc.)"

Your right. I didnt. But only because I really dont have a clue how taxation on French small businesses work. In the US, many small businesses incorporate and pay taxes based on how they are set up. Limited Liability Company or Corporation. 85% of workers are employed by small businesses. I would not be terribly surprised if the number in France wasnt the same. In the US, most corporate welfare and regulation goes to benefit big corporations rather than the small ones because-guess who gives larger donations. However, some have banded together to get government to give them special protections. An interior designer's group got the legislature in one state to require a license. The real goal was to limit competition. To wash hair in some states, you need a barber's license. From what you say, this is more pronounced in France. CB did write on blog on french supermarkets recently talking about this. This is why I am against government intervention. Business uses government power to stifle the competition. That's not it's purpose.

[azloon]

hey, Frank, lighten up a bit, lad.

when you want to have a few laughs, come on back.

i don't know about you but thinking too hard makes my head hurt.

[azloon]

Frank --

one last thought before you vaporize into cyberspace:

obama, not clinton, will win the iowa caucuses tonite -- by a relatively large margin.

obama will overtake clinton in new hampshire where, after a surge, he now trails by only a few % points.

obama will be the next u.s. president because he is the only real non-polarizing candidate. the u.s. is screwed if we don't elect someone of this ilk. john mccain would be an acceptable alternative, as he is also a bi-partisan, consensus buildling sort.

remember, you heard it here first.

[azloon]

Frank --

my first prediction is borne out: barrack obama wins iowa caucuses by a LANDSIDE. so, democrats in the whitest state in the u.s. selects an african-american.

new hampshire is next.

[thinknoworpaylater]

Sorry - I failed to identify the piece on small businesses with my identity - thinknoworpaylater

[QCD]

Terry, if there is one thing on which all Brits agree regarding Americans, it's the lack of irony. If Frank calls himself a 'dotty communist', he obviously recognises the madness of his creed. I'd call him a liberal with europhile tendencies and a useful socratic streak. Don't drink the hemlock!

[Frank Schnittger]

The truth is a bit more posaic. "Dotty communists" is a play on idiot ideologues but its main purpose there is to protect my .com e-mail address from spammers who harvest e-mail addresses for their nefarious purposes using automated software.

So I'm afraid Terry's "Exhibit 1" rather falls flat on its face. I thought the first rule of lawyering is never to ask a question if you don't know the answer? Worse still when you make it the centre piece of your case!

Ah well bon voyage all - just to annoy Terry a bit more, here's my analysis of the Iowa result.
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2008/1/3/233120/1775

[Terry]

QCD:

Being a former British history major and a lover of english humor (especially Monty Python), I am quite fond of irony. Frank and I had a lengthy debate on one of his blogs. Frank stated that Cuba is very democratic. He thought that being able to vote for whoever the communist party puts up as a candidate was participatory democracy. In fact, he said it was more democratic than the US. I hope Frank doesnt want the same for Europe. And, for a "liberal", he quotes Marx an awful lot. Irony? I think not.

I dont like Marxism and, particularly, Marxists because they tend to have a large totalitarian streak in them. Business is evil; people are stupid and need to be told what to do; the intelligentsia should manage society. That is the undercurrent of their thought. Still, Frank's writing at ET is thought provoking and it is always good to have someone challenge your views or to read differing views.

Unfortunately, all the views at ET are from the left. As Lilly noted, there is greater diversity of thought and backgrounds right here.

[azloon]

Frank --

reports of your demise are obvious premature -- not that i mind.

why are you analyzing the american political scene? a special interest/competence of yours?

by my reading of your blog, you sure don't seem to get the significance of the obama victory last night. obviously you weren't predicting it, so it appears you are now playing it down.

you may have noticed that i, as an american living in the midst of the political campaign, DID predict it and the magnitude of it (see my previous posts, and note their times and dates).

do you want to hire me as your american political correspondant? i can be 'had' for virtually nothing.

i made a rather substantial contribution to obama two months ago, when he was trying to take the lead in the 'most money raised' contest on the cutoff date for computing it (it's a 'dirty' business, i know).

i told his enthusiastic telephone solicitors subsequently that i might give more later if he did well in the early primaries. so, i made an equally substantial contribution late last night after the results of the caucuses were 'in."

maybe, i really wouldn't be a very objective reporter, so forget my suggestion. :)

p.s. the u.s. is in a major financial and social crisis, a once-in-a-generation sort of thing. our Terry-style, totally unregulated, market-driven economy has temporarily derailed and we will, imo, return to a more regulated form of capitalism. there are great dangers in this, since government more often that not gets it wrong, creates more problmes than it solves. but go there we will with all its problems and possibilities. capitalism, in its most unbridled and greediest form (u.s. style) can't always moderate itself, or solve certain social problems. so here we go. :)

[Terry]

Frank:

"So I'm afraid Terry's "Exhibit 1" rather falls flat on its face. I thought the first rule of lawyering is never to ask a question if you don't know the answer?"

Actually, I didnt ask a question, I was making a statement. A case is built on a lot of evidence. Your email was Exhibit 1. That's just the appetizer. Circumstantial evidence but evidence nonetheless. Your love of Castro and calling Cuba democratic is the smoking gun. Your prints are all over the murder weapon and you didnt notice the surveillance camera filming you.

Im going to ET right now to give you a piece of my mind.

[QCD]

Stylistic quibbles aside - I loved 'Giuliani's campaign is stillborn before it even begins - Frank's analysis shows that polls are hugely fluctuating at the moment. So Clinton's national lead (20 points) over Obama probably doesn't mean very much. I predict a revival on DVD for that great film with Isabelle Huppert, "I love Huckabees".

[Valentin]

Cuba, a democracy?! I had no idea Mr.Schnittger was THAT left. His defence of universal medicare sounded quite reasonable and I fully agreed with his way of putting it. But Cuba, a democracy?! Alors là! je l'ai pas vu venir, celle là !

[Maggie G]

Frank didn't actually say that Cuba was a democracy, he said something more along the line that voting in Cuba has as much meaning as voting in the States. He was basically critisizing American democracy, saying perhaps that the American election process is too controlled by money -- I don't remember exactly, but I do remember the exchange.

[Frank Schnittger]

Thanks guys - if I'm not careful I will be doing more farewell gigs than an old rock star, but I did say I would be bowing out soon rather than immediately. It's just that blogging at ET is now taking up so much more of my time.

Azloon - congrats on your prediction. I'm not close enough to the American scene to make "insider" predictions so I'm just analysing what opinion poll and electoral data that is available, and you are right - the Opinion polls did not predict the extent of Obama's vitory and had Clinton as slight favourite. However my own prediction (a very early and tentative one) had more to do with the final outcome in the National election next Nov. where I predicted a tight victory for Clinton over Huckabee as the two party nominees. Iowa has damaged Clinton's chances (but not yet terminally) and strengthened Huckabee's prospects but I won't change my final prediction just yet.

As usual Terry misunderstood my points about Cuba. Terry thinks Cuba is a dictatorship whereas it is probably more accurate to describe it as a one party democracy with a lot more electoral and democractic particpation by the people in that context - right down to street commitee level. (Unlike the US where voter turnout is typicaly below 50% and only the very wealthy or those supported by moneyed interests have any chance of being elected).

However I support multi-party democracy and would be a dissident if I did live in Cuba. There is political victimisation of dissidents in Cuba but the prisoner population is probably a lot lower than the US which has one of the highest Prison poulations in the world - about 2% of the total population rising to 3% if you include those on parole etc.

I consider the legal systems in both countries to be corrupted and biased against minorities and the marginalised and so I won't accept Terry's usual depiction of America as the land of the free compared to the evil dictatorship in Cuba. I have also enjoyed some good times in the US but would feel safer travelling to Cuba now than I would to the US because people with my views have been imprisoned as "terrorist sympathisers" in the US.

Last time I was in Cuba was 14 years ago so much may have changed. I did meet some dissidents there but most people where very proud of Cuba's achievements in the face of trade embargos, coup attempts and terrorist attacts diected at ordinary Cuban citizens which are supported by the US to this day.

I look forward to having further debates with you all at http://www.eurotrib.com/user/Frank%20Schnittger/diary

[QCD]

'People with my views', Frank? So you are a communist! How romantic!

[Rocket]

Frank

"Terry thinks Cuba is a dictatorship whereas it is probably more accurate to describe it as a one party democracy with a lot more electoral and democractic particpation by the people in that context - right down to street commitee level."

So then Frank what do you call a one candidate one party system if not a dictatorship. Am I missing something here?

As per participation. Yes in Cuba it is a good idea to participate if you don't want to get invited in for questioning. I believe the Iraqis also participated at 99% under Saddam.

"However I support multi-party democracy and would be a dissident if I did live in Cuba."

No Frank, you would be a jailed dissident.

Will try to catch you on ET. (Entertainment Tonight)

[Terry]

Maggie said:

"Frank didn't actually say that Cuba was a democracy..."

Maggie, Frank just said:

"Terry thinks Cuba is a dictatorship whereas it is probably more accurate to describe it as a one party democracy "

There you have it Mags, Frank said Cuba is a "one party democracy". Yes, as Frank sees it, a democracy is a country where a citizen can only vote for the candidate approved by a dictator. I can think of some other "one party democracies" that fit Frank's definition. Nazi Germany, Stalin's Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, the old Eastern Bloc. Let's just hope Frank doesnt want the same type of "one party" democracy for Europe.

Oh, and Frank doesnt believe Castro is a dictator.

Some other "democracies" on Frank's list. Egypt and Jordan.
Valentin, of course Frank gave a spirited defense of universal health care. Frank believes that the government should control everything just like in Cuba.

Frank posed himself as a moderate on this site. His views on Cuba speak for themselves. Apparently, Frank cannot even bring himself to say that Castro is a dictator. That should tell you the source of where all his totalitarian ideas flow from.

BTW: Maggie, what do you think about Castro? Is he a dictator? Is Cuba a "one party democracy".

BTWW: I offer Frank's own testimony as "Exhibit 3", Your Honor.

[John Gregory Flinn]

All this 'going outside to have a drag of a fag' is having unexpected side-effects in our local hostelry.

The patron, Pepe, does'nt like strangers doing it because, he says, it gives them the chance to nip off without settling their bill!
He's thinking of asking for payment up front....what next!

[Terry]

"One Party Democracy." I cannot get enough of that statement. The irony of those two terms- "one party" wed with "democracy" is just so amusing to me. It reminds me of the:

One Spouse Marriage, or the
The One Man Tango, or a
Solo Duet, or
The Two Man Quartet, or the
Sweet Jalepeno Pepper or the
Pessimistic Optimist,
the Charitable Miser or a
Free Prostitute and, who could forget,
The Pregnant Virgin. (with twins)

One party democracy. That was brilliant.

P.S. Dont even think of saying "Intelligent Lawyer", Valentin. I am way ahead of you.

[Maggie G]

Okay, Terry -- I guess you win this time (she said graciously). I guess your comment about what Frank said was a little more accurate than I thought. Not perfectly accurate, but close enough.

Yes, I do consider Castro a dictator, though not in the same league as Stalin and Hitler and Saddam Hussein. He's not as evil as those guys. He has caused a lot of economic misery to his people, but is not a mass murderer as far as I am aware.

I don't know that much about Cuba. My cousin has tunnel vision and went there for eye surgery a few years ago because apparently Cuba is on the leading edge in this field. In fact I think he went there twice for eye surgery.

A lot of people in France seem to go to Cuba on holiday. My best friend back home went there too. I think it's less expensive. (She's a widow, and wouldn't be able to afford some place too glitzy.) But I guess not too many Americans go there. I think it would be pretty politically incorrect. Or maybe it's not even allowed.

Would I be correct in saying that there is a large Cuban lobby in Florida making sure that Cuban-American relations stay bad? I remember reading comments about this from the time that kid washed ashore after his mother and everyone else drowned on that raft, and the relatives in Florida didn't want to hand him back to his father in Cuba.

[Valentin]

Terry, actually I was preparing to say, Gentleman Lawyer :)

Don't you see what you're doing to poor Maggie G? Her hero here was Frank, and you just performed here his public assassination.

Oh well. I'll add to it. Not only he posed as a moderate (while saying Cuba is a democracy), but he's not wasting any occasion to try to bring people over to EuroTrib. As if we're here because we like TypePad.
And still. Imagine how much he must have suffered, in this pretty right-leaning blog ! :)

[Terry]

Rocket said:

"Problem is that on basic foodstuffs the French really got hit on the Euro changeover as did many other countries that adapted the Euro."

I must have missed this comment. Sorry, Rocket. I am very much interested in what you wrote. I am fascinated over the effects of the euro on Europe. Some seem to love it; others like the Italians and the Portugese hate it. I heard the germans and dutch were not so please either. CB's colleague Anatole Karetski has written a lot about it although not so much recently.

Interesting comments on the loss of purchasing power. Thanks, Rocket. The French seem to love the euro despite the loss in purchasing power and inflation? Is that correct, Rocket?

[Terry]

Valentin:

"Gentleman Lawyer". Mort De Rire. That's much better.

"Her hero here was Frank, and you just performed here his public assassination."

Ole Joe McCarthy would be so proud of me.

Frank, of course, is entitled to his opinion and to be communist if he so chooses. It's just that I have found that marxists like to pass themselves and their ideas off as "moderate" and "democratic" when they are neither. They push agendas like "universal health care" and "global warming" to back door their brand of anti capitalist marxism. Because if they identified themselves as marxist/communist, no one would pay much heed to their political opinions. And rightfully so.

Communists use the "cadre" system. They infiltrate groups, unions, occupations etc. to try to spread their philosophy. This was what happened in Vietnam. They came from the North and infiltrated the bureaucracy, radio, television, schools, police, civic groups. The "Phoenix Program" was the CIA program that assasinated the cadres. Quite effectively too. My marxist professor (a very good prof. too)was in indonesia in the 60's spent an entire lecture on the subject. Peggy Noonan wrote in her book on Reagan how they tried the same thing in the Screen Actor's Guild. Bill Holden got Ronald Reagan to become President of the Screen Actor's Guild to bring that to an end.

Right now they permeate the U.S. Democratic Party.

BTW: Maggie, I agree that Castro is evil, but not in the exact same league as Hitler or Stalin. Frank apparently thinks he was elected.

[Valentin]

"Communists use the "cadre" system. They infiltrate groups, unions, occupations etc. to try to spread their philosophy."

Oh yes, and this is so little known here in Europe, where intelligentia remains leftwing and even worse, French communists still dare proclame their "ideals" without much opposition.
As if their fighting the nazis 60 years ago justifies a system that turned half the world upside down and whose massacres and genocides far outpass anything Hitler ever did.

[Rocket]

Terry

The pricing law on the FF Euro changeover in France stated that all prices in France must be changed into their exact Euro equivalent. Thus a product priced at 10FF became 1.52€ or

10FF/6.55957 = 1.52€

Not really psychologically stimulating if we know something about consumer psychology and pricing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing

So after a year or two when there was no more logic to use the FF as a basis for pricing as the pricing chain of all products were in € for the past 2 years, business began looking for an attractive means to price their products as described in the above link.

Playing on the diminishing memory of the FF and at the same time having the possibility to add a little more added value and margin (however on the wholesale side prices were also increasing)an article previously priced at 1.52€ in 2002 became for example 1.69€ in 2003 and 1.79€ in 2004 etc. which represents a rise of about 12% per year. In the past using the FF or Italian lire, Peseta, Escudo as I mentioned a rise of 12% on a 10 FF item makes the item at 11.2F which would be considered a psychologically large increase and also pulling an extra 1 FF piece from your pocket. (It's a coin but is psychologically considered the same as a dollar bill) But pricing from 1.52€ to 1.69 Euros only requires pulling a couple more Euro cents from your pocket so it is less painful as people are not walking around with a calculator.

Having grown up with the dollar I knew exactly what would happen as the exchange rate at euro changeover was 1€ = 1.18 USD or almost parity.

And Gosh darn didn't it happen! people began to consider after a year or so that a rise of 20 - 30 eurocents was no big deal, but had the FF remained, there would have been riots with an equivalent 1 - 2 FF increase.

So in other words, we all became blind.

Staples, services and other everyday consumer goods have vastly increased in price and if you add it up at the end of the year this increase represents a big chunk of income of low wage earners. Wages have not kept up. Most blue collar got 1-1.5%/year increase in the mid 2000 years as business threatened layoffs and the 35 hours kicked in. Inflation has been low in France for years. Under 2% Thus often wages didn't keep up with inflation. In the 70s Inflation in France was 15%/year and salaries were pegged to inflation. I remember my first wife getting 15% increase per year. In 3 years she had doubled her salary on cost of living alone.

Today, if you look at transatlantic airfare, it has remained the same over the past if not in some cases dropped in price. 3500FF to Florida in my case in the 90s and about 500€ today. Computers are down and more powerful as are other technological devises. Unfortunately it's the everyday staple such as food and clothing which have increased the most.

This doesn't affect the wealthy but sure as hell as economic rules exist whatever the system, it affects the blue collar and France being primarily a blue collar nation

The French loving the Euro? I don't know but they are resigned to it.

I hope this partly answers your question. Now back to the Redskins game.

[QCD]

I don't know Valentin, rounding children up, putting them in a concentration camp and gassing them for an accident of birth seems pretty bad. Have you read "Un sac de billes"? "Au nom de tous les miens"? While the camps and prisons described in "Prisonnier de Mao" and "La condition humaine" seem gruesome, these at least focused on political adversaries - legitimate ennemies, at least in wartime. While "Lettres de Russie" demonstrates an authoritarian streak which the Bolcheviks exploited, the nazi regime seems uniquely horrible in its negation of the very concept of humanity. Or perhaps your value system can conceive of something worse?

[Lily]

Daniel,

The way you describe French education before 68 corresponds to what I have heard of my parents in Germany. You still find the “old methods” in good private schools in France – with their benefits and their drawbacks.

Valentin,

You are correct in the way you describe some parents’ positive impact on their children’s education. My father was a teacher and I have grown up in a neighbourhood with plenty of teachers around. Most of their children were above average students, for at least one of the obvious reasons that you have mentioned: parental investment in their children’s education. I believe that most professors and teachers today (and with both parents working) a smaller group of children will benefit from their parents expectations/support.

The correlation 'social status – achievement' does not or should not aim at promoting mediocrity.

If an educational system is successful at addressing the less privileged and at promoting their literacy and math skills without neglecting those who have a more bourgeois background, that is good, and – as much, as the less able should not be neglected, the very gifted shall be identified as well.

You may say that it is above all important to not dumb the very gifted into some social equality thing. I say you shouldn’t leave the less privileged behind. [BTW I have checked Rotary – and found that they do a lot of work to help fight illiteracy within! French schools – as children are expected to read at the end of CP or CE1 at the very latest; those who fail and don’t get helped will be left behind all (school) life long.]

So, you focus on the gifted; I seem to focus on the less privileged. Fact is extremes to both ends need special care. AND the mass of ‘mediocre’ students are not all equally talented; some might be bright in Math and sciences, others in languages, others in one particular very restricted field alone. Ideally, everyone is helped and stimulated as much as possible. Since school cannot do everything, it is vital to involve parents in their children’s education/instruction as much as possible.

What is seen very often is that there are parents blaming teachers; teachers blaming parents. Lack of respect goes both ways.

They should work together as partners. Teachers should point to particular talents as much as to problem areas, not in a judgemental way but to say, like Your son appears to be especially gifted with languages; it might be a good idea to have him learn another language, send him a year abroad, etc. Have you thought of exhibiting your daughter’s drawings? They are astonishing. Likewise, a teacher might say to a parent, Listen, your child hasn’t grasped this particular Math problem. Would you mind reviewing that with him? I would like to offer!! him a few extra exercises to make sure he understands. Or, Your child seems very resistant to learning English. How about sending him abroad in the summer? I know of a few exchange programs that are quite affordable; I can give you an email address/a flyer/an address……

I have read of an excellent Math program that is in use in Japan, where children work at their own pace, try to solve problems by always getting faster. They do a certain type of exercise over again, until they are at some desired speed. When they are successful at doing this exercise, they will pass on to the next level. No one is ever expected to pass on to the next level without having been successful at the previous level. Students appear to enjoy this method and experience continued success and growth.

(This is still not what I had wanted to say about ‘testing/intelligence’.)

[Valentin]

QCD,

you can try and read Soljenytzin or books from other russian dissidents to see what Siberia was about. How entire populations were dislodged, packed on trains and moved from their home several thousands kilometers further, often in the middle of those asian deserts.
I make a very clear difference between war-time atrocities and totally unjustified genocidal actions.
Maybe there was no Dr. Mengele. But what nazis did to jews, russians and chinese did to many other peoples in Eastern Europe, Caucasus and Far Eastern Asia, at a far larger scale.

And I will also say the following: nazis wanted to create the pure, perfect aryan race, but their mass engineering remained limited to the physical body.
Communists wanted to create the New Man and used mass engineering on the human spirit. That's why I supported Terry when he put nazis and commies in the same basket. It all came from the materialist socialism in the 19th century, who started seeing humans as a field for mass experiments.
Torturing and twisting the spirit is a much worse a crime than any physical torture. You now have peoples that have no identity, no self-conscience, no self-respect, no deep moral values.
Really, you cannot imagine what this means.
I weep for those children you mentioned, but the evil ended there. On the other side, you have entire populations brought from the 20th century back to the Dark Ages. That's an evil that will take generations to heal.

[QCD]

Lettres de Russie (Custine) shows that the Gulag was alive and well long before the socialists arrived. Which are these "entire populations"? Who are you to speak of their moral values?

[Valentin]

QCD,
That's not an answer, that's justifying, and cheap.

Instead of asking, read those books, do your own research; I did once, posted here, forgot it now - it was part of the Poles, the baltics, moldavians, armenians. You're justifying the unjustifiable.

I do speak of their moral values. I know "them", been there, have friends there. When you come back here the difference is striking. You're asking theoretical questions from your fauteuil, go out and live, mon cher.

[dot king]

QCD So does James Meek's novel "The People's Act of Love" translated with typical French missing-the-pointness a "L'Acte d'Amour".
It's a fiction, fine, but the historical base is there, set in 1917.
Recommended (though cold) read.

[Lily]

Oups, I'm sorry, my above post belongs to 'French culture dies again', I have just reposted it to appear in the right spot.

Just ignore it here, please...

[Terry]

Rocket:

Thanks for the explanation. I read the link on psychological pricing. Fascinating stuff to me (Im such a geek). I was wondering how the jump in prices occurred. Tuscans were complaining to me that the vendors shot the prices up. That filled in some holes for me.

[QCD]

Valentin,

1) either the victims of stalinism, maoism, Pol pot, the Turks, etc, are nameless, or they aren't;
2) either the nazis were socialists /communists who believed in 'new man' or they weren't;
3) either Hitler was an evil monster whose deeds could never be 'far outpassed' or he wasn't.

But you need to watch what you write:
"Torturing and twisting the spirit is a much worse a crime than any physical torture." Does this involve sitting people in front of your prose? Or does it involve the physical depredations associated with physical dominance? How does one separate the two? I suspect you are working from some dualist philosophy which is unfortunately quite alien to me.

[Terry]

QCD:

I agree with Valentin. Yes, killing is worse than twisting minds. But there is something worse about, let's say, what Pol Pot did. Which was to try to control every person down to who had sex with who, etc. Of course, mass killings usually go hand-in-hand with the attempt to do so. Most likely, because that's the only way you can enforce it. I think what makes it worse is not just the killings, but the attempt to mold minds into one particular type of thought.

The Economist had an article recently about how Chavez is forcing the schools to indoctrinate children against capitalism, etc. Guess what's coming next?

[QCD]

Terry, if you agree that killing is worse than twisting minds, then you must disagree with Valentin. All societies indoctrinate ; only the bad ones murder their citizens.

The judeo-christian tradition is inimical to manicheism. The trinity symbolically expresses the union of body and spirit. In other words, you can't attack the one without attacking the other.

[Terry]

QCD:

I guess what I am saying is that those who do BOTH are worse. Pol Pot for example.

[QCD]

Terry, that's because you bought into Valentin's idea that nazism was only interested in a master race. Once achieved, the evil would stop. But there was no theoretical end to the evil of nazism: as a monster feeding on itself it was bound to fail. Remember the hitlerjugend?

I agree that Jews served the same function as schoolteachers in Pol Pot's regime. The difference, essential, to understand the degrees of horror, is that one must choose to be a schoolteacher, whereas one may or may not choose to be Jewish, but in those dark times one might be designated as one by birth. The logic employed is altogether more complete, more thorough, ... more german. To put it differently, the communists have mostly made people feel better (those they didn't kill or imprison)by making them think about the future. The nazis did it by making them think about the present. The film 'The Life of Others' shows that the communist method requires decreasing methods of terror (a policeman mentions that certain elements may be released free of harm after 10 months) whereas national socialism requires constant horror to the end.

[Valentin]

QCD, you're complicating your life and ours too.

No one made people "feel better", that's your idealistic interpretation here in the West. Actually you show you've no idea how it went at all.

The issue was not about the pure race, but about the physical vs spiritual. Nazis (not Germans) wanted to "shape" the body. Communists, besides doing purification ethnique on baltics, moldavians and others, also tortured and engineered on the Spirit.
This is particularly evil. There was no longer "good" or "bad", but the Party's Word, murder, stealing or terrorism were justifiable. They were "fighting for peace". People learnt to live in fear, suspicion, absence of moral values, losing identity, little nothings in front of the power. Communism was a religion forced on you, at macro and micro level, and one built on evil.

You defend this with nuances and paradoxes, which puts you in the same category. It is outrageous, but it wouldn't surprise me if you were French. Only in France this kind of reasoning is still made. Open your eyes, do a pélérinage in Eastern Europe prisons to get a taste of how horrible it was.

[Maggie G]

The issue was not about the pure race, but about the physical vs spiritual. Nazis (not Germans) wanted to "shape" the body.

Could we have some references, please?

[QCD]

Valentin, you're forgetting that the nazis were a party. Remember Goebbels? And if you think that what I'm saying is complicated, go back to Heidegger's da-sein. And stop talking bollocks: I'm not defending communism (Terry would be on to me by now), I'm defending moral right.

I have to say, though, Valentin, you do run a cool line in denunciation. I wouldn't be surprised if you were Chinese.

[QCD]

Maggie, here's a good one: http://ledroitcriminel.free.fr/la_science_criminelle/articles/le_lit_de_procuste.htm.

Rousseau, Danton and Robespierre. The original lunatics.

Careful: you might find yourself agreeing with Terry. Certainly the assembly included a second dimension to left vs right: high vs low (hence la Montagne).

I'd just like to point out to Valentin that England had a revolution in 1640. See last month's cover of Marianne.

As for republican values (Lily), if they are consistent then they must include the right to dissent from republican values. Contrary to what Valentin seems to think, a great many French people do precisely that, going to mass on Sunday, sending their children to private schools, running their own bank holidays (Alsace)... the original revolutionaries didn't like it one bit, but today's constitution evolved through revolution, counter-revolution, revolution again... at least 6 times in the 19th century (1804: Napoleon declares himself emperor, ending the Ist republic, 1814: Louis XVIII, 1815: Cent jours (Ist empire resumed), 1830: Louis-Philippe, 1848: IInd republic, 1852: second empire, 1870: IIIrd republic). To believe that modern France exists outside of history is a nonsense. Its institutions would be a lot neater, more like the USA's, if it did.

[Terry]

QCD:

"And stop talking bollocks: I'm not defending communism (Terry would be on to me by now)"

Actually, Im watching you very closely. (just kidding, I dont care if people are red. I just hate when they PRETEND they are not).

"To put it differently, the communists have mostly made people feel better (those they didn't kill or imprison)by making them think about the future. The nazis did it by making them think about the present. The film 'The Life of Others' shows that the communist method requires decreasing methods of terror..."

I dont think Stalin, Pol Pot and other like communists make people "feel better". Like the Nazis, they rule by the fist. Fear is used to keep people in line in both systems. Nazi Germany did talk about a 1000 year Reich, racial supremacy, etc. This was all designed to subordinate people to the will of the state. Hitler chose certain minority segments of the population to exterminate. In my opinion, he did so for a different reasons. Jews he saw as a marxist parasites that infected "host countries" wherever they went. Slavs, homosexuals, invalids were inferiors who drained resources and made the race week. Other forms of socialism/communism seem to want not only to control the body but the mind. Creating the "new man" in some cases. Creating societies where some village chieftain decides who does what job and who sleeps with who. Anyone who doesnt fall into line, gets killed. Pol Pot did a lot of this. Something about trying to control the whole person "mind and body" strikes me as "more evil".

[Maggie G]

"Careful: you might find yourself agreeing with Terry."

QCD: You'll just have to ask Terry if Hitler was or was not "attempting to mold minds into one particular type of thought."

I'm not planning to get into a discussion about this with either Terry or Valentin.

Been there, done that.

I'm happy to watch you at it, though. Good luck.

[Valentin]

After all examples I gave on other posts, Maggie G is still hoping to show I extrapolate and don't know the subject.
Oh well. Like for our lefties, defeat is hard to digest.

You want a reference about Nazis physical engineering ?
Here's about the aryan race:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race#Nazism

This idea of the master race that once dominated the world was the foundation of the Final Solution.

Even if nazis were interested in eastern philosophies too, Jews were not killed because of something spiritual, but purely physical: race purity:

"These and other ideas evolved into the Nazi use of the term "Aryan race" to refer to what they saw as being a master race of people of northern European descent. They worked to maintain the purity of this race through eugenics programs (including anti-miscegenation legislation, compulsory sterilization of the mentally ill and the mentally deficient, the execution of the institutionalized mentally ill as part of a euthanasia program."

Communists did genocides too, tried to extinct entire peoples, but their main work was not body, but Thought Engineering.
Killing someone is bad, but teaching someone that humans are all bad, and they deserve to die or change, is what communism and islamic fundamentalism are about. Murders originating from that are ten times more evil.

[Valentin]

QCD:
"And stop talking bollocks: I'm not defending communism "

Would you suffer me to try to justify nazism ?
What I'm actually outraged about, is that you can say what you say and not go to prison, as is the case for the slightest attempt at justificating nazism or racism.

[Valentin]

"I'd just like to point out to Valentin that England had a revolution in 1640."

You call the Long Parliament a "revolution"? Oh come on. Then you can call that the time when little Louis IV and his mother had to quit Paris in a rush, chased by rioting Parisians. Condé and Bouillon, if I'm not wrong, even wanted to proclame the republic.

Cromwell never did, he was a military dictator, he left his rejeton to suceed him, and the english gentry were never bothered, as it was the case with royalists in France.

Btw I fully agree with you when you say, "To believe that modern France exists outside of history is a nonsense". Don't simplify my texts on this or other posts.

"After all examples I gave on