Obama wants to see Sarkozy

Barack Obama has delivered his thoughts on Nicolas Sarkozy to tomorrow's Paris Match. He's diplomatic but since it's his first foray into what could be a new US-French relationship, here's what he says. I have translated it back into English:

Sarkozy came to visit me in my office in Washington. It was before his election in France. He is an energetic man with a lot of talent. I am impressed by his way of looking at problems that are specific to France, with a new approach.

He is not tied down by the weight of tradition or dogma. He is an example for many leaders. In politics today, you have to look at things with a new vision. I want to go to France and meet him as soon as I win the nomination. I want to see with him how we can strengthen Franco-American relations further.

He also plans to go to London and Berlin. Obama tells Match that his first step to improve the image of the US abroad will be to finish the Iraq war and close the Guantanamo prison camp. As soon as he is elected, he will organise a summit with the world's Muslim leaders "to discuss with them frankly how to narrow the gap which is widening every day between Muslims and the west." 

We don't know Sarko's view of the Democratic contest, but there is no doubt that the French media and political world want a President Obama. As Jack Lang, the old Socialist showman, says: "He stands for  the America that we like." Hillary Clinton does not enjoy such a French fan club though Bill is widely admired.  Some leftish organs, such Libération and le Nouvel Observateur, are taking their wishes for reality and sometimes sound as though the Obama White House is almost here.

Comments

[dot king]

I saw that bit of the interview on TV last night - a team of 4 including a Canal Plus and a Paris Match journalist, a Capa photographer and the TV cameraman had been following him at close range for days and finally persuaded his minders to get them an interview - in what looked like the foyer of a hotel or conference centre.
His coniderable charm came easily through the exchange, his personal sincerity too, but in all honesty he could hardly say anything else in answer to the question: "What do you think about president Sarkozy?" followed by "Will he be the first person in Europe you come to see?"

You ask leading questions, you get (French) crowd-pleasing answers.

Though I'm sure many would be pleased top see him - perhaps Carla (tee hee)) :)

[azloon]

obama has a long way to go before he becomes president. first, he has to withstand a 'billary' onslaught (a daunting prospect).

then, if he can, he likely has to face arizona republican senator john mccain, a plain-talking, 'straight-shooter' and a genuine war hero.

obama is going to be in phoenix today giving a speech to a large, enthusiatic crowd. i think i'll drive down (150 km) to see the guy whose campaign i have contributed to.

it will be a difficult choice if obama faces mccain in he general election. my support of obama is about preferring him to 'billary.'

obama vs. mccain? it's a toss-up.

[GAG]

Funny how French politicians and media love to denigrate the United States, but as soon as an American politician, business leader or performing artist says anything positive about France, those self same critics swoon with pride.
GAG

[Rocket]

Azloon

There is one thing that scares me if Obama wins and that is waking up the next morning and seeing the faces of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on all the talk shows. I don't want them anywhere near the center of power.

I'll go with McCain all the way.

GAG - The French media love to have their fur stroked. You hit it on the head.

[azloon]

Rocket

Obama won't cater to sharpton and jackson, imo. he runs in an entirely different crowd. he will play a few games with them, only to satisfy one segment of his constitutioncy, but i doubt he'll embrace them. of course, that could change depending on which voting segment ends up giving him his margin of victory, if he wins. if it is blacks in key cities, or in the south, and sharpton/jackson have 'delivered' these votes, they'll have more clout.

----------

this is for those who don't remember the vietnam war and mccain's involvement;

i was in the u.s. navy seventh fleet at the same time that mccain's father was supreme commander of the fleet. when john's A-4 was shot down over hanoi, his captors reserved special treatment for him, being the son of a famous admiral. they broke most of his bones during interrogation, and he, with great reluctance and shame, signed some documents admitting to being a war criminal.

i very much admire that he never forgets to mention his shame about this when anyone suggests he is a war hero. his usual response: "the only war heroes are dead."

[Valentin: now that's 'shame' worthy of the word]

[Terry]

Obama is specifically speaking to a certain very liberal segment of the Democratic party that thinks that leftist Europe and, specifically France are politically (and culturally) superior. Why not Merkel? Germany did not back the war. He certainly picked Sarkozy for a reason.

It also allows him to speak on foreign policy, something his experience is lacking in. Ideologically, Obama has far more in common with Sego than Sarko.

There is no more bigger supporter than Obama right now than me. Hillary will be a tyrant and a disaster.

[Rocket]

Azloon

"i very much admire that he never forgets to mention his shame about this when anyone suggests he is a war hero. his usual response: "the only war heroes are dead."

I always respected McCain BECAUSE he never used his time as a POW as a political tool. I thought Rudy would have been a good choice but my wife (she's from NY) said in reality New Yorkers didn't really like him and the rest of the nation was not still stuck on 9 -11.

I posted a link to Joe Biden's comments on Guiliani. Here it is again if you want.

http://tinyurl.com/3deyy9

[azloon]

Terry --

i am surprised to hear you would attach your approval to obama in any way. even only because of your dislike for Hillary.

i think saying obama is closer to sego than sarko is really off the mark. i don't thnk there is a single u.s. presidental candidate that even comes close to being a sego, not even dennis kucinich.

i don't think sego could possibly be duplicated in another culture. france is the only country that could have dreamed her up.

[Valentin]

"now that's 'shame' worthy of the word]"

Azloon, putting the bar so high is usually a trick: with that excuse behind you, you'll end up like the French: you'll never feel ashamed and never apologize for anything anymore :)

[Daisy]

Even if Obama flatters him, do you guys really think Sarko will like someone who is younger, taller, better looking, has a hipper strut and is more charismatic than he is?

[Pierre Bernardi]

Charles, regarding your article on Jérôme Kerviel, defending his position to investigators hardly qualifies as "boasting". Leave the man alone please. Or show him some respect. He certainly isn't a vantard.

[Yes Pierre. I didn't write boasting. It's the headline writers in London. CB]

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot,

"you get (French) crowd-pleasing answers.

I am proud to be accounted for in this crowd - LOL !

Azloon,

This morning, I intented to send you a post about Obama's interview, since I had already understood that you are not really a fan of "Billary". Of course, as usual, Charles was faster. The French expression for this would be : "Charles m'a coupé l'herbe sous les pieds" (Charles has cut the grass under my feet)- LOL !

If I rely upon my memory, you have said several weeks ago that many Americans do not even know the name of their President - if the senator Mc Cain gets elected, French will have no difficulty to memorize his name, since there are French fries (sorry, freedom fries - LOL) and similar products carrying the brand name Mc Cain in almost every supermarket ! And the packaging is more or less "Stars & Stripes" style...

"I don't think sego could possibly be duplicated in another culture".

LOL ! The lady will be utterly pleased if she happens to read your post ...

PS : Azloon, you mentioned the 7.th fleet in your post. In 1957, I was on board a tanker in the Mediterranean sea and we had an encounter with the 6.th fleet - it was almost an encounter of the third type ! - I will tell the story on another opportunity; here, it is too off topic.

Terry,

"Hillary will be a tyrant and a disaster".

Terry, vous êtes un affreux ... misogyne !

[Rocket]

Pierre

Is this you in the video?

http://tinyurl.com/2rdzye

Everybody knows that Kerviel's code name at the bank was Britney Spears to protect anonymity.

[azloon]

Pierre --

are you this JK's attorney? or what?

there are several published reports of JK spending the first few hours of his questioning by bank officials telling them that he had devised a system of trading that would greatly benefit the bank, and that only premature 'close-out' sales of his positions caused such large losses.

if this isn't a form of boasting, albeit in a futile atttempt to save his own ass, i don't know what is.

your response to JK must be the basic ingredient in the overwhelming french popular support of him: the perpetrator as victim, little guy vs. the evli, greedy big guys, just an ordinary bloke tryin' to do his job (of losing the equivalent of the GDP of Sri Lanka).

i suggest you consider leading fund-raising efforts to design and erect a broze statue of kerviel in an appropriate parisian location. perhaps, in front of your house.

-------------

Daniel --

not all who view Hillary with suspicion are misogonists. she comes with alot of baggage (bill being the heaviest piece) and has a certain insincerity and abrasiveness that turns off alot of people.

her poll numbers vs. obama among democrats are quite good. but when the entire electorate is polled she doesn't show as well against a republican opponent. she is, let us say, a controversial figure in american politics.

[Blendi Progri]

When I read the term ['billary' onslaught] thought that is sounded the same as `binary`, lol, then decided to tell AZLOON, that if its originally yours (made up by you) it deserves to be a TM
---------------.

Now on OBAMA
------------

My honest opinion without prejudice, (NOT concerning: policy, age or race) is that I find the Dude a little Strange.

He never smiles, and when he does it seems painful, totally forced & false, so fake in its entirety that makes me uncomfortable, in my own sofa;
starting from the mouth to the creases around the eyes- looks like anything but a SMILE (.

He- could be a good guy for what I know, BUT, on presentation & behaviour people go with instinct mostly… and instinctively I don’t trust a guy that doesn’t smile.

His appearance is very intense, too intense, almost bordering on maniacally intense.

Is the demeanour of someone that looks at you and says- This is my point, don’t you dare disagree with me! not in the bullying sense –per se- but in a frenetic/intense and not-very-healthy way; that makes you think anything and nothing; not sure where you stand with him.

I don’t get/ see Human Vibes from /with the dude…One never knows listening/ speaking to him…Are you upset, is he, are you both, what would happen if… . etc…etc…etc…

I`m sure that people who know him more could find him lovely (and cuddly too) but to me this guy is too wooden, too robotic and completely mechanised.

But what I think doesn’t matter, as it is the American people who`ll decide whats good for them and live with the choice.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------.
I don’t want to intervene in another country`s problems, with little info I have, nor do I want to upset my American friends (that may like him) but if asked to characterise the guy/Obama, in a single sentence I will Plainly say this:

The guy Lacks Warmth!
=====================

[Sam Young]

"The Libération and le Nouvel Observateur are starting to imagine Obama at the White House"

When deciding on my bets, i use these two rags (and the pseudo-intello daily Le Monde) to decide how not to bet. Oh well, that's the end of it for Barack Obama i guess.

[john o'doe]

Sarko has a lot to learn from this guy that he won't find in any brown-nosed Paris Match article.
You can bet that Obama would never dream of going to Dakar to lecture Africans about being noble savages, of going to Rome to lecture the Pope about Christianity or going to Riyadh to explain Islam to the Saudis.
Obama is also a nifty dancer.

[christopher muir]

Not for decades have we been so reliant on the American voters to make the right decision.

[dot king]

"Why not Merkel? Germany did not back the war. He certainly picked Sarkozy for a reason." (Terry)

He didn't "pick" France, he was being interviewed by 4 French journalists who asked questions about France and Sarkozy, he replied in diplomatic fashion to what he was asked.

[azloon]

Blendi --

your take on Obama is interesting, and unique as far as i know. (i have never see the critcisms you voice in print from american or british observers).

i think liberal america's infatuation with Obama has to do with his hopefulness, his obvious intelligence, and his general demeanor. and he is an african-american that doesn't threaten whites. and he is not as divisive as billary.

being wooden, artificial, cold,,,,hmmmm. i personally don't see what you do, but i guess i could imagine that someone else, particulary a non-american might see him this way. i could say that he does appear 'super-cool.' never at a loss for a clever 'turn of phrase.' but this quality would be seen as a positive here, not a negative.

re involving yourself in american politics, having opinions

please, have at it. we americans have certainly not restrained ourselves in our criticisms of france and europe. we deserve the same from you. 'turnabout is fair play.'

[Daniel Strohl]

Azloon,

"not all who view Hillary with suspicion are misogonists"

Azloon, I was simply teasing Terry, the almost retired "affreux Jojo" !

This morning, I have seen the full interview of Mr. Obama as mentioned by Charles and Dot. My first impression is that he is very smart, convincing and that he seems to believe what he says (but good politicians train themselves to give this impression - LOL !). So I would say "wait and see", avec un préjugé favorable - Blendi seems to be a little too pessimistic about him. I did actually see a smile at the interview. May be because one of the interviewers was a lady ...

On BFM TV, I saw also this morning a short interview of Sen. Mc Cain. The TV "présentateur" said that the republican candidate had "tressé une couronne de lauriers" (laurel wreath) to France and Sarkozy. I noticed mainly that he was approving the French energy politics, i.e 80% of its electricity produced by nuclear plants with no CO2 emissions. He said also that he was pleased to have an American-friendly French president. He too was not shedding out smiles ...

PS : it has always astonished me to see American politicians and actors permanently smiling and permanently showing their shining teeth - they must have over-sized zygomatic muscles - LOL !

[Doremi]

Another man that Sarkosi will have to look up to.

Would people feel different if Hillary had kicked Bill out of her life?

If she wins, won't the republicans and the democrats that hate her and her husband so much block anything good she has to do? Then, bonjour le marasme.

[dot king]

Azloon, if you go back up to the top of the thread, you will see that I say I found natural charm and sincerity in Barak Obama and he definitely greeted the French journalists with a smile and a pleasant remark about their tenacity in following him around for (I think) 4 days.
I didn't pick up any falseness about him - you can let him know that Dot King was suitably impressed and he may invest the White House at any time he likes ;0

[Valentin]

I share Azloon's opinions on Obama, I'd even say he seems quite the opposite of rigid or cold. Maybe Blendi meant Hillary?

[Valentin]

I just saw the interview with Obama.

His words about France were of course polite, but there was obvious sincerity in his praise of Sarkozy. He went far beyond wooden tongue and talked about their common values: a pragmatical approach to issues, a fresh view, looking for new ways, deploying a lot of energy without fear of radical change.

He'd make great team with Sarko. Les grands esprits se rencontrent !

[Dominique]

GAG,

"Funny how French politicians and media love to denigrate the United States, but as soon as an American politician, business leader or performing artist says anything positive about France, those self same critics swoon with pride."

Of course! And the reverse is also true. Remember the Sarko's trip to the congress lately? he said everything the US representatives wanted to hear, and was praised for that.

Nothing new, like Azloon says, people love to have their fur stroked .

[Blendi Progri]

Azloon,
I`m glad that you guys are interested on our thoughts about US elections. I `ll ad that the President of the USA, in a way or another can effect us all with his decisions.
btw.that was my original thought about B.O
----------
I understand that some people like him, they think he represents Change (his slogan) and Hope, that American Foreign policy will be a nice one with B.O., that if we elect him the world with know that we are good people ..
( I`m afraid of this- of choosing a president on this basis alone, as it wont reflect well… etc) .. and this or that.

If a leader has to act on something he must be measured, focused, ask for diff. expert opinions and take his time to decide.

For me the simple citizen, these prerogatives are by-passed, all I need is to hear a guy few times, and react as I see/ or as I feel, what is better for me.

So, I turn the Voice of my TV OFF. And watch for 30 sec-2 min.

That’s the best, and only way to see what someone Radiates. If he is shifty, there are no words to protect him. If the candidate is lying, it will be easier to say- this guy ( I mean any guy) is slippery. He`s strange, or his motives are ulterior.

With the Voice OFF, I can see that Johns Mc. Cain is deep down, someone that has suffered and won`t let a fellow human drown if asked of him, he is mature, open and a good guy in general.

Hilary, seems competent, at times over-reaching (see how she lifts herself, forwards- up), at times confused and little panicky (that isn’t bad thou. Its only human) and with a need-to-be-liked, these are little things that one can `feel`.

…with Obama. Is not easy for me to put into words something that one can `sense`. I don’t get good vibes from this guy, not at all.

I know how to differentiate and say – its not his lanky frame, is not awkwardness in front of the camera, neither is lack of experience in the campaign trail- that bugs me…

The guy simply lacks human warmth.

I didn’t mean – when I said he doesn’t smile- that `He hasn`t smiled once`. He has. But the smile is forced.

Its easier for me to say this, than an American (he/she may be accused of many things) cant say this openly, and (pro-usa, as ah am, lol) it has became like a fashion to go on the `Obama bandwagon`, to a point that it amounts to blasphemy, if one Dislikes Obama.

Yep I don’t like the guy, on `Human Grounds Alone`.

Meaning that I wont drink a beer with him if invited ( I know a simple test, but matters to most guys) I wont have a pleasant chat if we share a train compartment, nor do I get the sense that He can mean `me` well as a citizen.

The guy appears uncomfortable, as if he is confused. He is too intense in the sense that he SEEMS on-guard, 27/7. Now if he can`t relax, or wont relax, that aint the point, the point is that someone that intense, isn’t cut to be a leader. It can prove dangerous too.

People, who are v.intense, on guard the whole time and contracted, (not necessary hiding anything) either lack belief in themselves, or others.

They mostly think that “we, `means- THEM` must be prepared that something big, huge, cataclysmic could happen at anytime”
That life is a show.
In fact it rarely does, life is a chain of small and at times dramatic events, but small they are. So I can not see a relaxed man, on him.

Intense or coiled, Whichever it is, is Bad. V. Bad to me.

Guys who `are on guard` the whole time, could be good colleagues, nice neighbours and even correct friends, but no more than that, at Normal times.

At stressful ones, one could wish that he didn’t know them at all. When people who are too intense explode, they explode with `noise”, a lot of noise.
Anything can trigger up that explosion.

So, the word I was looking for yesterday, came to me today.
At different levels, I feel, see and sense, something is not exactly right with the man.

The guy is ANGRY.

Deep down, not in a very obvious in yer face kinda way, but HE IS ANGRY.

I can see it.

I still think he isn’t a bad dude –per se, even could be a good one in small gatherings, but He lacks few characteristics to be a President ( lol, but so did Bush) let`s wait and see what will happen.
--------------

[Lily]

Obama –

is not expected to run a Tibetan temple.

He doesn’t come from a ‘big’ American family.
He isn’t black. He isn’t white. His second name is ‘Hussein’. He is a Christian but not from the political religious right, and he is bright. This is enough to give reason to seriousness.

He seriously aims at becoming President of the United States of America. He is either nothing (not white, not black, --) or he is it all. He seems to have it all and ready to assume his duty. He has every reason to be nervous and serious – intense - because he isn’t there yet, and the race is still open. He further appears to feel the weight and greatness of the task.

Should he win, he will certainly loose some of his “anger” which is nothing other than aggressiveness that all good leaders share to some extent. It is the punch they need to get there.

In every democracy people choose who they deserve. The Germans would never have chosen Royal or Sarkozy to run their government; neither Merkel would have ever become a presidential candidate in France.

Europeans prefer a friendly (and emotionally warm) smile over an empty grin; Americans prefer a straight grin over a soft and ridiculous smile (there could be one exception) – at least in the political landscape.

Obama is young, energetic and charismatic, and he best represents what America stands for, IMO. His inexperience – together with his zeal, integrity and vision will serve him better than both McCain’s and Clinton’s head starts as either war hero or former resident of the White House.

I am beginning to get a grasp of the implications of having Obama for President of the US, why most Europeans seem to welcome him while many Americans remain sceptical. I don’t share their view but they could decide the race.

PS: Blendi, I don’t think the group is ready for that hug, yet.

PS2: Oslo lacks warmth :)

[Lily]

Blendi,

I forgot to say

You say "the guy lacks warmth".

I say he has dignity 'et de la classe'.

[azloon]

Blendi/Lily --

Blendi, you may be 'projecting' a bit re Obama. it's as if you must keep repeating your judgements over and over to convince yourself that they are accurate.

i'll pick one quote from your post: "If a leader has to act on something he must be measured, focused, ask for diff. expert opinions and take his time to decide.'

Obama, imo, is much more likely to consult with experts, with whom he now associates, than is/was Bush who seems not to know or value opinions of any regcognized experts.

what you don't know, nor could be expected to know, is Obama's history as a community organizer, as a state legislator, and now, as a u.s. senator. he is regarded as a talented and unifying figure, able to deal effectively with both sides of the political spectrum. he has not, to my knowledge, ever demonstrated an angry streak.

i will acknowledge his somewhat vague presentation of himself, his obvious dependence on, and appeal to, american's disgust with the present regime, and it's desire for anything else. so he, among the candidates, is able to compete without having to emphasize specifics. he can appeal to emotional desire without spelling out exactly what he would do in various hypothetical scenarios (tho he has anwered those questions when asked).

i am an admirer of Obama and have read one of his two books (which my 27-year-old son gave me for Christmas and which traces Obama's life path). but i haven't decided whom i will vote for if he is opposed by McCain in the general election.

Lily, the price of greatness is traveling to scandanavia in mid-winter. deal with it !!

:)

[Lily]

"what you don't know, nor could be expected to know,..."

Thank you , Azloon, for providing more information on Obama. You are his admirer, have supported his campaign - and now consider giving your vote to McCain.

Could you please elaborate on this?

Do you expect more 'economic growth' from McCain?

You can give him your vote - but don't complain afterwards.

I am sitting here freezing in Oslo and don't get any compassion either. I know how it feels.

In France there were many female voters who were said to be jealous of Royal and thus voted Sarko; could any of you (Blendi or you) be jealous of Obama, by any chance??

[Pierre Bernardi]

In the English version of Asterix, Agecanonix is Geriatrix. Let's not forget that John McCain is 71.

[John Gregory Flinn]

Obama might get there by default, although his plans seem a bit naive to me.
Hilary is not to be trusted - look at her eyes. Above that synthetic smile they are dead - just like a shark's eyes.
McCain failed to get the republican nomination before, why might he succeed for them this time?

Usually, in difficult times the voter chooses to balance their governance. Accordingly one might expect the republicans to win the presidency, leaving the democrats' majority in the House of Representatives.

What do Hilary, and McCain say about Sarkozy?

[azloon]

[You are his admirer, have supported his campaign - and now consider giving your vote to McCain.

Could you please elaborate on this?] Lily

it is not uncommon in the preliminary stages of a presidential campaign for someone to lend support to candidates of both parties, especially since the lines between the two parties have been narrowed/blurred in recent years. as well, many people will support more than one candidate within the same party. part of this largesse is idealistic, part practical. if you are a large contributor, you are 'hedging your bets' by giving money to more than one candidate, i.e. you may want access to the presidency and don't know which person will 'get the job.' (there is always the possibility that the 'most easily defeatable candidate' will not be defeated).

true partisans, of which i am not one, would want the most easily defeatable candidate nominated by the opposition party. i would rather see the two most qualfied candidates from each party oppose each other in the general election.

i happened to like McCain before i had ever heard Obama's name. so it will be a difficult choice for me. i haven't decided if i will donate to McCain's election campaign, as i have to Obama's, but i imagine i will contribute if McCain wins the nominaton of the republican party. he is probably the only republican i would consider voting for. romney, huckabee would be only slightly less objectionable than dubya.

i may be wrong, but i believe more americans than europeans are willing to vote for a candidate not of their party -- if that person seems more qualified, or they are tired of their own incumbent candidate. and, of course, there are millions of persons who declare themselves as 'independents,' and have no party affiliation (but are more likely than not to vote for the democrat).

[Lily]

Thank you, Azloon.

[Maggie G]

I agree with you, Azloon. I have always thought well of John McCain. I can understand why you would have a hard time choosing between him and Obama. I would too, if I were American.

And I think you're right that (North) Americans are more ready to vote for a candidate not of their party. I find it very hard to imagine French socialists voting for a non-socialist. But obviously, it does happen, otherwise the same party would always be elected. Obviously, some socialists voted for Sarko.

[Blendi Progri]

Azloon, as a man who has used calculus for a living you are well aware that to find the square area of any given rectangle if the Width is in metres and the Length in centimetres, one has to Convert.
We either convert Meters to Cm, or the reverse.

Only this way we`ll solve this. The problem we are having is that we are based on two very different premises, so different in fact that they can`t be converted, and never reconciled. When we se the proof, we`ll just shrug, and say it happens.

I also, like to consider myself, analytical and someone who deals in facts, not believing in spirituality, mumbo-jumbo and the like. But there are some things that can`t be ignored.

Of course that You and Lily are right. In the analytical component alone.
Why?
Because you guys are dealing in Rationality, (Lily in her paragraph, analyses the complications of being Obama) and while You, openly admit that you admire the guy,, without forgetting to ad additional – and worthy- facts) BUT I`m am dealing in “irrationality”.

There the problem starts. I never tried to be factual, said over and over again Tha is what I SENSE/ FEEL about the guy.

When you quoted my paragraph about “the lider”, the real meaning of it came with the second one- whereI say, that as a simple citizen I only need to “ see and feel”, something along these lines.

I`m not `repeating things` to project-although it may seem like that- and sending myself into a “dervishes` trance”, trying to autosuggest myself that what I am saying is right. No.

No it is not.
I am not right.
LOL.
You are!

I`m trying to put into words just what I SENSE.

And what I sense from this guy is Lack of Human warmth, Bad vibes, an unhealthy attitude, strange intensity, 24-7 on guard and generally things that one may think can disqualify anyone, from running from president.

You cant `sense` that, Fair Enough. Many cant. Or wont. 

“am an admirer of Obama and…”
You say.
Also you (and many others ) consider the guy Cool. I don’t. First, cool and coolness deserve a thesis in itself, and hardly can we devour the whole subject it in here. But I`ll say this:

There are different types of cool. How its perceived, seen and judged, that depends on the person that : does pronounce what is cool or not, in diff cases”.
There the cool of the ignorant, of the underclass, of the diffident, or the guy with nothing to lose, of the outsider, of someone trying to be cool –per cool`s sake, the cool of an imitator and so on…

Then there`s cool that one is born with, the cool of the dignified, the cool that comes from learning and respect, the cool of the fearless, of the real pro, the cool of people working under real pressure (law- enforcement,. medical, fireman etc) the cool of extr. talented people (singers, athletes, writers etc) the cool that is effortless, that comes from within and is neither false, nor forced.

That cool –easily passes my empirical test. Mainly turn the Voice of the TV OFF for few moments. Then one can SENSE real cool!

If, a young generation, is a bit messed up about what`s Cool or not, we (I mean over 30 y/o-up-to 90 y/o+) must have a dissimilar formula for it.

To me Obama, doesn’t look cool (and at the risk of upsetting LILY ;) ) nor dignified.

I never discussed about his ideas, or his programme ( I know a bit about his plans, from BBC alone- who has sent 4501 correspondents, portraying every insignificant things about this election in USA Live, one can gather few useful facts, alone) never said anything that I didn’t like in his speeches. I simply HAVE A FEELING.

It is the feeling that makes you glad- that you have it- when you turn your head around, Sensing that someone is looking at you, and there 30m behind your back, in 3-rd floor is a beautiful girl, and you catch her smiling.

It is the same feeling that makes you Glader (not a word, yet?) when something tells you to look up, and in a second you jump away as a “flower- pot” is accelerating towards your head.

It is that thing- that sense, that kind of feeling that evolution has given us.
And Evolution rarely leaves things to chance. You just know it is there, one day it saves your life, and the other you never know it has been saved, just by acting on it.

It is THAT instinct ( of Like & Dislike) that tells me that Obama, is not the best guy for me-for the average citizen.
-------------------------.

When we are children this feeling is more pronounced and at times we marvel at kids` ability to differentiate things that “look” v. complex to us. In fact they are simple, but we `can`t` see.
We rationalise, analyse, over-agonise, a child just `Cuts it` and says how he/she sees it. And we look in WONDER.

It is the “inner child” in me that was speaking, that “refuses to be dazzled by Obama” factor. As if something extraordinarily new is happening to humanity, by the simple and natural virtue of the guy being black or not black.

No wonder that at times debates takes silly turns of the kind :
Is Bill (Clinton) a brother?

God help us all.
LOL.

We rarely discuss the System. But sane people have fallen over themselves `praising` Obama and forget what matters most.

That is scary, when sane people go insane, just by the process of Induction alone.

How the most powerful country the world has seen, the one to whom we all aspire, like and get protection from ( in time of need- that is a fact) – ( and Thnx USA, not only for the cold war alone) has one of the most unnecessary complicated election, that a human mind can conceive.

At times is deadly serious at other times is as a silly as a cheerleading contest. One primary is called vital, the day after we hear it wont matter, one party that cant make its mind up, but presents 9 candidates.

The funds, the corruption, the lobbying and this and that. Is a President –that depends of fundraising dinners and donation, to be elected- REALLY FREE?

¬Is the president fo the free world, a free man/ woman?!”
Lets discuss this, with facts, not how tough Obama had it, and so we must roll the red carpet ( puhlise)

And we talk as if Obama, will rid the system from its malaise ` as if by magis` and then, and SAVE America.

America doesn’t need to be saved, doesn’t need a Saviour (be it black, a woman or a hermaphrodite) America only needs to be Run.

America todayy needs a Manager.
Sometimes one country (i.e France at this moment) needs a visionary (and Obama aint one) sometime a country needs a Manager (and Obama aint that either) .
Now let`s reverse the tables:
If Obamas` race wasn’t an issue.
If he was just another humble senator (1 cent a dime in USA) a white guy, with a wife and 2 kids, will folks find him `special`? I wont. Will you guys?
He will be just any other unremarkable, 45-ish guy with a normal family.
--------------------------------------------------------------------.

I have nothing against the guy, just on Instinct alone I don’t like him.

The inner child in us (that we as adults, don’t like to accept), in me says I don’t like that GUY.

At times I trust that inner voice more, than my rationality. For all the education, deductions and plans that we make, that instinct at times is worth more than everything we experienced, know or own. The instinct that the little boy has, its alive in all of us, with little chance to be used daily in inner cities, but never the less, is there.

“The little boy” can “see” that his cousin Albert is weird, Uncle John is a bit of a thief, Auntie Alice is a bit nosier that other aunties, etc, and “that newcomer on his first visit, doesn’t mean well to the family”

There are the things, that, the “parents/ adult`s” overlook, chose to not see, or are incapable of seeing”.
==================================.

I will make a simple parallel with a great book, most of you guys have read.

Comes from the world of surreal (lol, ours is not that real too) The Tin Drum: Book: (Die Blechtrommel in Original) written by Gunter Grass.

It is about Oskar, the perpetual 3 year old kid, who refuses to grow.
He feel or sense in advance what is bad and then he Screams, terrifying ones, with such intensity that by screaming alone, he can smash window glass, reading-glasses, light bulbs etc.

He beats the drum and screams. The result is surreal, but it is as if `the released anger` serves as an antidote to the perceived nastiness that Oscar (the little boy) feels.

Oscar, is that little boy within us that refuses to grow and “senses the things” that “adults” may not see. Rarely has a whole book in literature, become such a successful allegory from beginning to the end. It is dealing in the realm of Absurd, and focuses on the Absurd as a part of life.

Fittingly enough, it is one of the rare cases where a Movie is as close to… and as good as the book. on which it was based.

The generation of 50 y/o + for sure must have seen the film (if not read the book too, or both)

The book is great ( for who is curious to read it) and the movie made some waves too [ by getting 1979 Oscar for Best Foreign Film and the 1979 Golden Palm ( Palm D`Or) ] around the world.

There`s is a part of us that `resolves to stop growing in a way` like Oscar, there always will be. Is may be basic, primitive and strange, compared to “our higher being” but that’s how it is. That is the foundation, everything is build on top of that.

The Tin Drum is a remarkable epic, and Grass instinctively knew that this theme, has been touched previously. After all, absurd and the humanity go hand in hand. Many other great writers have delved into the realm of absurd, Kafka, Melville, Ecco, Joyce, Camy, Pavese, Faulkner etc but this book can be taken as a synthesis of what `our inner child is like”.
What can he tell us, if left to run amok.

The Tin Drum

Mario Adorf, Daniel Olbrychski, Angela Winkler

What the movie is about.
http://worldfilm.about.com/library/films/bltindrum.htm

or see the nytimes Movies review.
http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/50080/The-Tin-Drum/overview

Or NY.Times Books review- A very GOOD one.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/books/review/Irving.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin

I felt some time was need to be spent to find some links and bring them in here (on the chance that maybe someone hasn`t read it- and need to see what`s it all about) as this is one of the best books of XX-century, distinguished as a modern classic, & that speaks a lot- coming from a country with exceptionally great literary traditions, like Germany.
====================.
I did what I did and said what I said, based in Instinct alone, it may look illogical, but that’s how I feel about OBAMA.
====================.

My instinct could be absurd, but absurd is only part of life, I will go as far as say (in fact it was Camus-who said it before me, lol)
“Absurd is essential”

.

Azloon, I see it in few posts that misunderstandings can happen, and maybe nuances at times can`t be translated perfectly on the written word alone (still, missing the basic- mimic, face recognitions etc- is a greater handicap that we like to admit) and am glad that you and Lily, despite the reservation that you had and having a totally opposite position from mine, maintained a real sense of the argument.

It is to your credit (both of you Lily and Az) that this remains a normal debate.
It would have been easier, for someone else, to provoke and say: you don’t like Obama just because…etc..etc…
… and lower the tone completely.
By remaining calm & respectful, the other party (me, in this case, next time will be someone else) is given the chance to say and elaborate more, so I can `explain` my “ Instinctive Opinion” .

I respect yours though… that he`s “ mainly a cool guy, admiration and the like” and will stand by mine that senses,:

“The guy, Just doesn’t feel right to me”.

Forgive the typos and (to hell with syntax & morphology for tonight - am tad tired, is late) as even by “mah standards” is quite a long post.

But as with everything in life, who wants to read it, can, who doesn’t can just walk by. Thanks to both categories.
----------------------------

P.S it`s true that conditions for a hug aren`t that optimal. Lol.
Lily, you sound v.very mature (unusual I know, but I mean that as a compliment) that’s why I asked for a hug. 
: ) one more
-----------------------------------------------------.

[Terry]

"Azloon, I was simply teasing Terry, the almost retired "affreux Jojo" !"

Almost retired? I'm only 38 years old. I a jeune Jojo. Im only in the infancy of my JoJoness. You aint seen nothing yet.

[dot king]

I think we've gathered that Blendi Progri doesn't care for Obama . . .

[Valentin]

Some time ago I've read an article in the New York Times on the electoral campaign for Congress, and I remember very clearly the author saying that in the US there are two large blocks, the sworn democrats, with more than 40%, and the diehard republicans, about the same weight, and the whole thing about elections was to get onboard the remaining
15%.
Reading Azloon makes me wonder, is he an exception, or maybe the presidential elections are much more personalized?

[Daniel Strohl]

Terry,

"You aint seen nothing yet."

We look forward to see more of it - LOL!

[Daniel Strohl]

Blendi,

I am ashamed to have to admit it, but I have not (yet) read "Die Blechtrommel" .). Next time we drive to Freiburg (across the river Rhine), I will buy it in the nearest bookstore.

I understand what you said about feeling vs rationality. I am also a bit like you, but experience shows that one can get wrong sometimes.

[azloon]

Blendi/Valentin

Blendi --

i believe i too have a well-developed sense of the absurd (i'm irish for godssake!). i really don't see how people navigate life's vagaries without one. but how that relates to an assessment of Obama, i am not sure. maybe you could be a little more direct and succinct about that connection? incidentally, thx for tin drum recommendation.

i am totally willing to admit that your 'volume turned off' view of Obama contains truth that the rest of us haven't sensed yet. i don't pretend to know his deepest, inner workings. he does, however, have a public record of service that speaks for itself, and is hard to refute. your sense that the guy is a phoney, or deeply-flawed, is certainly not based on any facts known to most of us. but i do recognize your visceral sense of skepticism about him. i believe i have had that same sense about at least five or ten people in the course of my lifetime which i couldn't explain rationally. on reflection, however, i believe my reactions spoke as much about me as they did about the other person. perhaps, they exhibited qualities of mine, usually hidden, that reminded me of the worse side of me. just a thought.

re the u.s. election process

talk about absurdity. but, in its defense, it does allow the electorate an extended period of time to assess the candidates in a wide variety of circumstances, with all candidates having multiple opportunities to ''trip over themselves." you get a sense, but just a sense, of how they would handle themselves once elected. the money aspect of u.s. presidential politics is obscene. it will be changed within the next ten years, imo.

Valentin, i may be atypical, and this may be a particularly unusual election from the point of view of acceptable candidates.

your statement about a 40/40/20 split among american voters is probably not too far off. but i would say this won't hold as true this year because of the level of disgust with the bush administration, and the fact there is no incumbent, or incumbent vice-president running for the office.

my experience tells me that republicans are more apt to be 'hardcore,' never voting for candidates outside their party. democrats are more 'wishy-washy' (i am one so i know) who have a harder time parsing the issues and the candidates' postions, then making a decision. as a general rule, i believe democrats view life more subtlely with a sense of its complexity than do republicans (Terry, want to 'weigh in?').

[John Gregory Flinn]

Gee whiz! This guy Obama has stirred up some divergent and lengthy opinions why he should, or should not be president.

LILY - is "He isn’t black. He isn’t white....." an oxymoron, or a metaphor about his ethnic origin?

AZLOON - I think liberal america's infatuation with Obama is emotional, rather than rational which your comment implies. They want him as president because he is an african-american, maybe to provide a worked example to Africa about governance.

But MAGGIE G's observation about your dilemma between McCain and Obama surely strikes at the truth.
The political difference between Republicans and Democrats has become so narrow that a choice only comes down to personality.

This has become the same throughout the West, and needs changing.
Perhaps that Guardian report about certain (Western) military chiefs calling for NATO to consider a pre-emptive NUCLEAR strike against any would-be nuclear power is relevant here.
Or is it a wind-up?

[Valentin]

Isn't McCain for keeping the troops in Iraq, while Obama promises to start retreat immediately and to end it by 2009 ?

[azloon]

Valentin --

you are basically correct about obama and mccain on iraq.

i am no great suporter of the war, but i think mccain is more realistic than either obama or clinton about the war.

what kind of war has a ending date which is announced publicly? what sort of message is this to send to islamic extremists who will certainly time their activities to coincide with the troop withdrawal? and what about all the good iraqi people who supported us? shall we offer them up to the islamo-fascists as we head out the door?

the less said about u.s. plans in iraq the better. the u.s. needs 'cover' for it's withdrawal, not an 'expiration' date. we need to get out, but on terms and conditions which protects those who deserve it.

JMNSHO

[Terry]

Azloon:

"as a general rule, i believe democrats view life more subtlely with a sense of its complexity than do republicans (Terry, want to 'weigh in?')."

What makes you think I have an opinion on this? Well, whatever did, you are right that I'd love too.

I dont what you mean by viewing life more subtedly. But I do think democrats certainly view life as complex. But it's only complex to them because their thought process is so muddled. What is so complex about life?

[Terry]

My thoughts on Obama. Obama is probably the only geniune candidate running for president in either party. I say that because he is the only person who truly believes in what he is saying. The others, especially Hillary, really dont have any core beliefs. Unfortunately, his policies would be disasterous for the country.

[Valentin]

"what kind of war has a ending date which is announced publicly"

This logic works for classical wars, Azloon.
Let me put it this way: what does victory mean? Who exactly is the enemy? If you ask these questions, you see Iraq in a different light.
The country is actually fighting with itself, sunni against shia against kurds with saudis, syrians and iranians mixed in - and all of them want the US out and be left to fight in peace :)
There's no "victory" to seek, hence the conclusion: out as soon as possible.

Then there's the Al-Qhaida issue, but that's a whole different thing.

[azloon]

[What is so complex about life?]

Terry, thanks for confirming my suspicions.

(you would make a very poor citizen of the french republique)

btw, yes, our thought processes are a bit 'muddled.'

we like it that way. it adds to the richness of our existence.

more importantly, we, and not republians, have highly stimulating cocktail party conversations (when our thought processes become extremely 'muddled.")

:)

[Terry]

"more importantly, we, and not republians, have highly stimulating cocktail party conversations"

That's another thing. We dont have elitist cocktail parties. We have super bowl parties, barbecues, real american style parties.

[azloon]

i'll be watching the superbowl today with a crowd of 'bikers' at the birdcage saloon on whiskey row in prescott. this is as elite as it gets in this cowboy town. Rocket knows what it's like in these here parts.

[Blendi Progri]

Azloon, it aint easy to describe feelings, lol, the one of the kind:
“It’s a Gut Feeling, Sergeant! “ as we often hear in American movies.
Sometimes, the words in themselves are not enough. I took this risk, and fully conscientious that recounting `gut feelings` and attempting to `philosophy` about `em feelings, isn’t easy. On practical grounds first.

In a foreign language one can do many wonderful things; write, describe, translate, and communicate in different ways, to a point that one can be called fluent.But…one of the most valid observations ever made is:
“You can't philosophize in a foreign language”

Easy to understand by most people who use a 2 or 3- rd (or more) language In their daily life. To the fundamental way of thought you were “born with” another Lingua, is very dissimilar from your original language, that tells you—there are some Limits. Everyone in a foreign country, reaches a point in a highly specified debate where he thinks—hmm- how could I say this in most concise manner, and then after saying it, is fully aware that it could be better said, than the “long laborious sentence- typical of foreigners everywhere” used.

I`m “sure” that at times you must resort to “The Irish lingua ” also, LOL, when you have to delve deep into a discussion. 

Describing feelings- I am forced to make a parenthesis in here, as for most part the Philosophy even when dealing in facts, in a way is describing a feeling.
A simple question, an everyday one such as: `Blendi, how are you feeling this morning?” asked by you, a perceptive one, but one grounded in reality gets a matter-of-fact reply by me “ I`m feeling a bit queasy” a very factual response.
But in fact is simply a feeling, a feeling that comes from within. With little or no factual basis. Queasy, could be a simple feeling, a perception.

If you, Azloon, have never experienced the feeling of being “Queasy”, you may react in different ways, but will not “empathise” with me on the level that only a comparative experience can convey.
You may know, what “queasy” means, had it described by others, read about it, even may have 2-nd hand experience in the form of Observing another person feeling “queasy”, but when it comes to “feeling it”, you may not have felt the queasiness.

This is where the lines became blurred, LOL, and literally we became “partisans of opposite opinions”, you describing facts and expressing feelings (intentionally or not, is inevitable) and me Describing feelings and trying to express them in a way that they seem factual. (Intentionally or not) as irreconcilable as they are, they “strive” to meet, but in a way never will. That is the absurdity of it, as both could be valid, at the same person (i.e. he could be a guy that does a lot of charity/good family man/ clever, cool etc –as you say/// and he could be v. intense / angry and unfit to be president- as I sense) the absurd has place for both, or simply it could be only the one.

I feel that at times words aren’t everything! Wittgenstein often thought about “limits of the language game” in different fields (philosophy, religion etc) and many had taken issue with that. And whether we like to agree with him or not, most direct appeals to reality must be done ‘in and through’ language. His idea can`t be dismissed entirely though, as there are things, that, language alone is not adequate. We can not “transmit” reason (feelings, yes, at times) and as such the moment we deal in reason, an automatic pact comes into place, telling us that we must be arranging facts.

The instant one goes with “ his feelings”, we are dealing in the Realm of the Absurd, so that leaves everyone open to `some` peoples interpretation of that, among them a small number, not equipped on dealing with a debate in the most empirical sense, call simply call everyone else a “nutter”. It’s a real risk, but something that can`t stop a majority, only because someone dismisses outright the `absurd & irrational` either through impatience or just because it feel like that, to him.

One cannot philosophise constructively, then describe feelings and then waiting the other party to relate to you in everyway, that isn’t possible. What is though, is that I`m prepared to accept your view, to the point where I think, my “feelings” (re: Daniel Strohl `s Point also in here) could be wrong, as life have proven to people.

Socrates says that everyone must take responsibility for his own version of the truth, so mine, if it can be called that-given where it initiates from ( the absurd) rests in shaky foundations, believed (be me) read and invalidated by most others.

Being asked to be more direct about Obama, I can say only what I did. “I don’t trust the guy”
It is simply a gut feeling. The feeling ( maybe to others too) that is exacerbated more by the hush reverential tones anytime Obama appears, and/or is mentioned about.

Previously I said, I do not see anything special about a guy with 2 kids+ 1 wife.
It is said so many times, that it is patronising, to the point of being insulting,;
as if after very sentence we are `being ask” to applaud, to raise up on our feet, or remember that this guy HAS a family.
What are the non-spoken implications of that? What? Lets be grown ups?
Are we being invited to image that this guy is GOOD, so good that he almost goes against every perceivable, preconception about black guys ( that are supposed to be divorce wives and abandon kids- at will) and By the way, who said that ALL Black guys are like that?
Could the incidence of divorce in the black community be higher? (if yes, so what?!)
Does this invalidate the good black guys that follow conservative family values, and their dedication to family/children/wife/home?! NEVER. Does it make them SPEACIAL? No, inside their family yes, but not out of it.
Normal, ordinary, average guys.

Or, who gives us the right to judge black guys, (or any other guys- for that matter) that are transgender, gay or chose to remain unmarried? Are they bad? Nope.
So why is it mentioned, that way. I seen Obama`s two little children, one nearly falling on stage ( she was sleepy) OHHH,,,,The presenter Cooed!
How nice, WHAT A LOVELY FAMILY.

Yes, most of you by now are thinking, if the GUY was White (Hispanic, yellow, green or red) the TV commentator would have shouted:
Child abuse! How could this heartless man used his children even past-their-bedtime, to score some cheap points with the audience?!

And then a big debate about : “Can we use kids, little ones, for political purposes!” For few days, coast-to-coast in America. But because children, are Obama`s, LOL, people say How Charming.

I`m sure that in a way, Obama himself could be sick of it. He may ( or may be not) like the issue of race to be raised at all, but who knows.

To get to another “ issue” another silly one, but not very silly since Mr. Obama is concerned, HMMM.. every-time his wife is mentioned, 3 superlatives, 4 epithets and 5 praises precede the poor woman. Someone, anyone that listens to that and sees the lady Obama, for the 1-st time is at the very least surprised. My 1-st I was afraid. The woman is UGLY! You are led to think ( form the press, she is a supermodel, a real looker and exceptionally photogenic)

… the Media says “Obamas` secret weapon”, LOL…to me she could be a weapon, but why doesn’t he keep her secret? She must come with a warning, but no…always is presented as His beautiful wife.
There are many beautiful black ladies, actresses, singers, models etc…but calling Miss Obama “good looking” is an affront on our common perception of beauty, of any race. Black women also, don’t find her a “looker”, so why should we? Cos the media says so!

This was one example as if we ( America) must “ roll over & vote” only because Obama has deigned to appear and that alone will be enough, will present us as moderate (it wont) will make us look inclusive ( nope) and will absolve us (never) from past sins.
And if we start with endorsement chapter, Oprah (Lord, give us strength!) and the like then is becomes a CIRCLE, indeed it has became Obama`s Circle.

Maybe the ancient guys werent as easily impressed as us. A “new black emperor”, all shout, salivating at the prospect ofthis possibility that we could be “lucky” to witness in “our time”. Well, looking back in history (more often than not, it has a precedent for us, but we still like to be razzle-dazzled by own folly mostly) there have been 3 Roman Emperors, All black. Nothing NEW though, Totally black and not half or a ¼ black. One of them Caracalla the so-called "King of Britain, was Black, so was his Pa, Septimius Severus) and Romans accepted them as fact of life, maybe Rome was more “metropolitan” than Today`s America appears to be, where an Obama has made rational men go wide of the mark.

Writing these lines, something else “hits” me about Obama, it could be the `half-white` part, (he could be half- the same as Us, goes the logic of the uninformed and the scared) He could be the acceptable face of “Black”, most liberals will think.
He may “kill us, but not scatter our bones- as the old proverb goes”, because he is one of ours. Well, he maybe well be- the most white peoples` - “favourite and less threatening black man” I know a very ignorant perception- but that’s how most people MUST feel in America.
And that is a very wrong Premise to chose someone as a President of USA.

I am reminded at this time- of a e GREAT quote by Wiesenthal ( Simon W.) about Bruno Kreisky ( President of Austria* in 70` and early 80) that:

“Bruno Kreisky, is everyone’s favourite Jew!”

One doesn’t need to have read a lot about (Bruno/ Simon/ Austria’s history/ WW2/ etc but it helps..) to understand that Mr. Krenski made Austrians “feel good” about choosing him.
Will Americans feel the same (you draw your own parallels) the chances are that his “so-called admirers” are guided by this.
----------------------------------.

AZLOON, not wishing to “get all profety” LOL, especially after nearly two terms in office, I can tell you that I had a BAD “gut feeling” about President Bush.
From his thin lips and small eyes and the way he reacted/ got bashful – I didn’t like the guy in the 1-st debate I saw him. I saw all three. When America “discovered” this guy, people (the so called clever ones) were falling over the obvious:

This guy doesn’t know the name of the President of Pakistan they cried (so what) or the Capital of Azerbaijan they howled! Then, they were laughing, pointing, sniggering and generally “feeling good” at their own “witty observations”.

To me that didn’t matter!
I could SENSE that the guy had a kind of “inner” I`ll –show-them-if, arrogance, a “sick egotism” that made me very concerned. I “Saw” that the guy “could go nuclear”, even before he went into Office lol.

Since then I don’t know anything about his private life just what little the media in uk says, have not read a biography, critique or anything) but can Say – based on my `sense` alone- that The Guy- Bush- in private is a Very Badly tempered Man.

Could that be wrong? Yes it could. But that’s how I feel.

When he stopped during debates…not knowing what to say ( at times) or searching for the right reaction (after he finished) from the audience, I saw something that was just `chilling`. To me he wasn’t some inarticulate dude doing his best, or a guy with a limited vocabulary; I said this guy is extremely Vindictive- and god help you if he has any power and you cross him, he has less feelings than a sociopath.
I felt bitterness, the man seemed nasty to me, and unkind.

I am not saying in in here, said it in the room to my family & friends and they said you are speaking rubbish… LOL…so I stopped, then when Bush did what he did ( he never listened, did what he wanted to etc) they told me I was right…well, one never knows. As with sense one is never sure, lol, I could list a “long list” and you, or someone turns around and says:Yep, but he is kind, lovely, helps old ladies cross the road, saves babies, helps the homeless, environment and the like… and theres nothing I can do to get back at that.
:}
Both you guys( Daniel& Azloon) are welcomed about Recommendation. You won`t be disappointed even if you just manage to do the one, either –reading- or watching the movie, they are almost equally great.
--------------------

Daniel, there`s no shame in that lol, whenever you read it let me know. And if you have a recommendation once in a while just drop me a line ( or a story, lol) and it will be gratefully received.

I was writing about the “inner child” in us, and then stopped for a while thinking what is the best example of that in literature (there are many) but Oscar, is “so visual” that it couldn’t be ignored. Then I found some links, (the 3-rd one particularly is a great review- by a fellow writer) in case anyone may need them.

Hope all you folks had good w/ends. I did. Went with my 2 kids to see the Bee Movie- ( Jerry Seinfeld and René Zellweger) a great one. Lately, it’s a joy to go to the cinema ( Shrek/ the Simpsons movie etc) as they can be watched by adults and children alike, and ”the in” jokes are such that there is humour for each –group and mostly for both. Great laughs. When we left my little one said ( 7 y/o) :
Oh dad that movie was Sick!
Haven`t gotten used to this TERM yet, surfaced in the last 3 weeks, this word is always taken by me literally, lol. Sick- Apparently mean cool, perfect etc…despite my efforts it has sneaked its way around the house… and to think that I just was getting used to that other `cool` term “ Wicked”…hmm, maybe `cos I`m getting old.

A great Monday morning to you all! ;)
=======================.

* Chancellor- is the real term in fact.

[dot king]

If one examines "stream of consciousness" writing there is a carefully ordered structure and discipline as well as a sense of style in the seeming stream.

[Pierre Bernardi]

Good long post Blendi, straight to the point and high-minded ironic lols (Dot King effect achieved by erasing half the sentence, notice no quote marks). Just remember to finish with "Leave JK alone!"

[azloon]

Blendi --

james joyce would be proud of your post. it is a sort of a 'day in the life' of the your mind. and an interesting mind it is. :)

i wouldn't even know where to begin a coherent reply which probably wouldn' be appropriate anyway since you are not 'about coherence.'

what i might say is that you didn't answer my guess about your possible 'projection' about obama or acknowledge my indentification with your gut sense but did bring up things we'd never brought up such as michelle obama's beauty or lack there of which i see as a sort of mean-spirited, even possibly, racist attitude since it's only important what barack thinks of her beauty, right, Sandrine, and wonder why you perseverate about obama's family since that's a normal feature in american presidential politics and i don't really think our discussion has anything to do with differences in languages, rather a difference what we are smoking and wonder why you think you are sort of 'seer' because you sensed some dislike of Bush before his election since this puts you in the company of about half the american electorate who voted against him so i don't really this is evidence of you alleged powers of prognostication tho i have no problem with you turning down the volume on you tv set and viewing the world thru the lens of speechless images with nuance of eye, lip and nose movements to assess the character of these voiceless figures but i am very happy that you liked the bee movie and don't take this any more than a mild tweaking which i would certainly expect from you if i posted a rambling blog entry which perhaps this one qualifies as but i am not sure since i can't stop my mind from spewingg out more ideas which i feel i must put in writing because i might miss something important which would add strength to my argument but my inner child is getting hungry and has to pee and then eat some breakfast so i will resume this when i have taken care of all these matters so i hope i have given you an idea about how i view the galactic gestalt generally and you and i in particular, and turn, the epistemology of perception......stop me before i kill but as the great philospher homer simpson is fond of saying...duh...have a nice day

[dot king]

"Sometimes, the words in themselves are not enough." (blendi)

no comment

[azloon]

p.s. Blendi i need to tell you that i appreciate your efforts at personal explication but i have to say i think that you and i are perfect examples of the differences between french and anglo thought processes which run the gamut of complexity and nuance from saying the same thing fifteen different ways and backwards and sideways and up and down and with this analogy and that anology and this comparison and that comparison and referencing this philospher and that roman emperor all the way to the other end of the complexity spectrum which emphasizes simplicity, clarity, brevity and economy of thought which reminds me that perhaps if the french could 'monetize' abstraction of thought it would be the wealthiest nation on earth since no nation has so fully developed the idea that if you say something often enough and from as many different angles as occur to you, your listener will be left dumfounded wondering if he/she has just heard the most brilliant of exposittions or, if the person talking/writing has a 'runaway' brain which needs to stopped before it crashes 'into the station' killing or maiming hundreds of innocent listeners/readers.

[dot king]

WOW!! Masterful!
I think Azloon has just passed his Bacc Littéraire or his Bacc Philo - if not both -
Yes, why not both??
Con-grat-ul-a-tions!
Fancy being able to draw on latter-day homerian philosophy to justify all your points and draw them to a logical and irrefutable conclusion. Impressive - only word for it.
Pass the tire-bouchon . . . ;)

[dot king]

The runaway brain came over the hill and she blew
The runaway brain came over the hill and she blew
The runaway brain came over the hill and last I heard she was whistling still
And she blew blew blew blew diddy blew

Simply stunning, mindblowing

[Valentin]

Wasn't Blendi from the UK ? Wasn't (s)he anglosaxon after all ? Hmmm.. you might wanna hold those horses Azloon, before crashing your carriage at full speed straight into Rocket's backyard. His French friends might not appreciate it, despite your obviously good intentions :)

[Blendi Progri]

:) @ Pierre,
I have been meaning to ask who`s JK? sorry I dont get the reference, let me know and then I can say " leave JK alone, lol"
----------.
AZLOON, you pride yourself in being open minded, but that cant be achieved by mockery. I undersatnd your point though, if you dont like the post you can just walk by- no one minds LOL... hopefully that you dont read & write under duress. Some have the energy (& the inclination too) to write a long post, others dont. The days when I will ask anyone what to do with a section of my weekend and how to do it, seem very long away (and then hopefully...) for me. Politics is a touchy subject, as people became enraged fans, easily. Thats fine. I didnt bring up O`s family (neither, just pointed it out as that feature is hardly left out in usa elections) nor are my thoughts racist (thats below the belt)I can say the same about Clinton, Bush or whoever I feel like, but your perception is yours, Ican`t change it. Whoever you like to be a president, whatever makes you happy. But for a few commas (in your Posts, better to have left it with no punctuations) you spoiled that, hopefully this wont tire you and (I wont point where and how) but it has been tried before. And people lived it. No commas, no dots, nothing, it was perfect.Yours is great too, and original.if I knew how this it would pained you.., though I dont complain if you post 1-2-3 times inside a day (at the same post) or inside one afternoon, or 3 times inside 2 hours or....I indeed like it, the more posts the more fun. I wish I can post often though.Btw I dont live in france ( South West London)nor do I think in french terms.
I can sense that whatever you say, comparisons you make, you LOVE France.

Homer S, if my fav too, and I`ll salute you with his word:
take is easy, have a beer, chill.
the whole world is having one, why not you...
----------------------------------.

What shall I say in this subject...that hasnt been said, well whats have been said counless times before, `people` deserves the leader they choose!

One thing that makes USA great though (and thats why they can afford to make mistakes) is the simple rule of: 2 terms in office and you are out.
So in a sense it matters who is President and in the other it doesnt; and if it isnt a great choice, people know that it can be fixed inside 4-8 years.
that`s the most important point.

[Maggie G]

Wasn't Blendi from the UK ? Wasn't (s)he anglosaxon after all ?

Blendi is a GUY, folks. He said he took his kid to a movie, and the kid said, "That was SICK, Dad!"

(I only read through it once, Azloon, but I was paying attention.)

Also, a woman would not have made such strong comments about Mrs Obama's looks.

[Pierre Bernardi]

Blendi, your ignorance of the SocGen scandal would appear to disqualify you from any intelligent insight into the US, French, Kenyan or any other democratic process, unfortunately.

[dot king]

Blendi, to put it simply, JK is Jérôme Kerviel, the trader at in the Société Générale débacle.

It would be preferable obviously sometimes to watch TV with the sound turned up.

[Lily]

Blendi –

As I have declared my love for your posts, I think I must get back to you on this.

I highly value the process of image streaming and what we sense without any attention to the media, journalists, common knowledge, our fellow citizens, family and friends etc. – And it seems just good to share this with others who seem less profound in their perceptions.

We can, however, be mistaken with both our own senses as well as about the idea that others lack the profundity that we feel for ourselves.

If others are less outspoken about their ‘inner workings’ it doesn’t mean that they aren’t there and our own discourse may even be perceived as egocentric by others because it doesn’t leave much room for the things others feel in their own silent moments.

Azloon said something about an endless flow… which needed to be stopped. I would say it differently although it is the same. This flow is good in that it is honest and you truly share what you sense. It is refreshing next to lies and hypocrisy. But it needs containment. It needs limits and boundaries.

Bloggers may scroll down when a post is getting too long but no one wants to make the effort and write a long post knowing that others might not be interested in it. I say this because I feel like this about my own, sometimes quite lengthy comments.

I think there is value to length, as long as the length speaks of new ideas. Believe me, Blendi, I have (and I guess most others, too??) understood that you felt bad about Obama when you FIRST mentioned it. You were explaining what you sensed which is more than a feeling but still no fact. We cannot debate what you personally sense. I can only say that I sense it differently. I feel good about him. Neither you nor I will be able to provide any material evidence of our senses or foresee the future. So what?

Even if you had that gift, it would require a lot of wisdom and sensitivity to transport an unusual message in a way so that others would listen. If you keep telling what you sense and see, people will eventually get bored, stop listening, shake their heads, smile politely and wander off.

If you are called to open other people’s eyes, they will open up.
If they don’t, it might be the wrong moment or the wrong place or mistaken senses, and it is wise to hold back with some of ones own ideas and exercise containment.
(This is how I feel about it but I may be wrong :-).)

[azloon]

Blendi --

i was tweaking you. no offense intended. i wouldn't mind a parody of my posting style, my tone, prejudices, ignorance.

my only fairly serious point was about your comments re michelle obama being 'ugly'.

a white male (and i assume you are) is on 'thin ice,' imo, when he makes public comments about the beauty (or lack thereof ) of a women of a different racial group.

probably better to keep those opinions to yourself. race and appearance are touchy subjects, particularly in the u.s., though perhaps less so in europe.

also on the racial front, i notice that racial taunting of blacks is in the news in europe -- of british formula one drivers, and football players, with italy and spain being the loci of most of the obnoxious behavior.

a point of interest: if someone at a u.s. sporting event dressed up in 'black face' and frizzy wig, waving racially derogatory placards, he/she would be in great danger of physical harm from fellow spectators, white and black.

[azloon]

[It would be preferable obviously sometimes to watch TV with the sound turned up.] DOT

ROTFL

[qwerty]

Great achievement, Azloon. I prefer the first chapter of Ellis's "Rules of Attraction", but only by a iota.

[Blendi Progri]

Azloon, I like your sense of humour, as I do your "fairness".
If Michelle wasnt "hyped" by media, I wouldnt have mentioned it, in case you are impresedd, better look close to home, it isnt me that has turned the election in " hi 5-s " games, the wife of this and the granpa of that.
You asked for another point of view, you got one. You dont like that...well, what can I say. Lets see the super tuesday result & I`ll get back to you on this as today dont have that much time, maybe over th w/end.
And dont worry about the race thing- I know its a touchy subject for you guys (USA -in general ) after all till `70 you did things that werent that nice to blacks.

I understand that the subject is Still Raw in USA, but the way that you are going on about it, isnt healthy.

When S.W. said aboutKreisky, the Austrian Chancellor " He`s everyones favourite Jew" if you knew the context, you `ll know that it wasnt meant in a nice way.
the same parallel with O.B.

can you amek that parallel?!
yes Obama is everyones favourite black- good...you could -as s country think t hat it will make you look nicer- but will it look the same to the rest of the world?
You think that chosing him will absolve you from your Recent Past. It wont.
If someone refuses to be bullied by the Media, of your Obama factor, the least you can say is: Fair Enough!
Why do we chose hime? Because he is black..well then let make him and abssador, make him a Guvernor, lets make the guya Foreign Secretary, lets see how he manages " to manage"... we try to take the mickey with Sarko, but teh guy -truth be told- has been in politics since 5 y/o.

IMO, even if you chose Obama for president, you went get penance for what was done in the past to blacks...doing this, in this way, is the wrong way.

With this "cheeleading style fanatism" not only the election is devalued, but there is a fascistics tendency to burn any herectic that daresto think differently from Obama`s sympathisers. And you are one! Not a unique one.

Because the subject is touchy, let not talk about it...is this what you are saying...ok then...so lets `eleminate` other candidates and open the way for him.
Do you call that fair play?

How many subjects are touchy, we just them them slide, Ok.

BTW, I too feel good that you got off your `Harley` and had that chilled beer.
As H.S said, is good to walk ...

I dont take any offence about your passionate denunciation of Obama`s critisc. As long as it doesnt turn into a crusade.

btw. the guy that did an article was called bernard levin. Dint meantion the 1-st time, not taht you dont like quotations ( they tire you a lil) but thought his name may awake your anti-jewish tendencies. A great junralist of many british papers ( the Times too) he was a really great guy.

But at the risk of you reaching for teh cross, I wont go o about it. Are you a an Anti-Jew,,,come on be HONEST AZLOON?
OR you simply dont Like JEWS...from a distance...
Now...you know that, that is a JOKE...but despite how many :) ;) ;) one puts after it..it leaves a bitter taste. It is easy to invite someone to `elaborate` then get cross, when they do.

BTW, I know ( better, I hope) taht you like all races, jews too. ;)

----------.
not long ago, on hearing that 40.000 have read on this blog and lamenting on "diluted quality" that it may result (something like this) you said Bring It On!

Imagine I write twice and you get Jumpy ( my long uns are once in two days- yours 4-times a day) if only 10% of this 40.000 would have written...what would have happened.
?!

Is that what you mean by "bring it on"? That aint tough. How would you cope with many, many more posts?!
the more post, the more you`ll find that people are reluctant to `parrot` from `I love O sheet`.

To conclude, I love to share my opinions with you as you are very open minded ;)

Lily, thanks about you advice, but we dont take this seriously,I dont Hate O. TOTALLY, and think the guy has good points too, very few, not enough to be a president (give the guy a hols w/end/ a medal or two, but not a president-ship) and AZLOON (despite what he says) doesnt love O that much, he knows that, I know that- and he knows that I know.
the more he says he Likes O, the more I Sense ( yep, another sensing) that he Doesn`t love him FOR REAL.another beer?
s for compairing Europe to USA about racist attitude, I`ll like to compare, two (un)comparable institutions.

British and USA pOLICE FORCE.
________________________________

How they deal with MOST citizens ( not blacks too, it is a froidian slip of yours that wITHOUT ANYONE MENTIONING race, YOU GUYS DO

--anything bugs USA? guilt? maybe)

now,think on that and reflect (if you want too)Now, yes, Free JK (like anyone gives a hoot) the yesterday`s sub.
Azloon, even if you were BLACK, you would have taken this, this personally. You aint Black. You may be a BROTHER, But you aint Black!

Nor, does protesting about a Brother (more than a brother himself) makes you "blacker". I say that your defence of O, is admirable. In EU, we seen different shirts - different colours about people getting ANGRY about the Lider- the chosen one...and we seen the results.

Hope you`ll enjoy your next President, be it a woman or an guy with a wife and 2 children!
Exceptional.

[azloon]

[And dont worry about the race thing- I know its a touchy subject for you guys (USA -in general ) after all till `70 you did things that werent that nice to blacks.

I understand that the subject is Still Raw in USA, but the way that you are going on about it, isnt healthy.] Blendi

you are basically correct about this. and, yes, applying different standards to comments about different racial groups is a form of 'political correctness' that is objectionable.

but perhaps this double-standard is necessary as the u.s. makes amends for slavery and second-class citizenship for blacks which lasted until a mere 40 years ago.

i actually find any mention of female unnattractiveness to be offensive. i always want to ask the guy (it usually is a guy),"do you think you're so friggin' handsome that you can pass judgement on a woman's lack of beauty?"

[Pierre Bernardi]

On the other hand Robert, if the spectators were merely dressed up and the British press hyped it up into an international incident, how might you feel if you were actually present in the crowd? Behaviour in Italian football stadiums is far worse - but I'm not so sure that surrounded by a hundred angry tifosi you'd be your usual go-getting self (and neither would I for that matter).

[azloon]

[but I'm not so sure that surrounded by a hundred angry tifosi you'd be your usual go-getting self (and neither would I for that matter).] Pierre Bernardi

you are right on. my bravery would disappear in a flash.

i would of course be quite brave if my contingent of anti-racists was bigger than that of the offenders.

[dot king]

Now I've never noticed what Mrs Obama looks like before, but following the disparaging and wholly unnecessary comments on her appearance (Blendi above), I took particular notice when the US election was covered on tonight's news.
I cannot see how, by any standards, that woman can be called ugly.

On the other hand, she shouldn't have dropped Stevie Wonder - that was careless . . .

By the way, Sweet Baby Azloon, who won this state?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNjLUPqckWY

[azloon]

DOT

i loved the vidoe link -- JT (not JK) as a handsome young, heroin-addicted man whose deep rich voice had not yet developed by the time of that recording.

he has so many wonderful songs, fire and rain, sweet baby james, terranova, handyman, up on the roof (both covers). i posted a remark of his about may and outdoor lovemaking on the may '68 string.

sweet baby james is from chapel hill, north carolina which is often called 'carolina' by its residents. they held no primary election yesterday. (their state university sports teams are called the 'tarheels' and their chant is "i'm a tarheel born and a tarheel bred, and when i die i'll be tarheel dead." :)

south carolina, right next door, held it's primary 10 days ago and obama was victor by a large margin.

[dot king]

azloon:
and Carolina - isn't that a derivative of Charles, Carol, Carlo, Carla?

and didn't JT have a Carl-Y in his life? and wasn't there some question of a mocking bird that didn't sing and the purchase of a diamond ring??

who said i was off-topic?