Cécilia wins in court. Sarkozy sues over advert

To inject a lighter note after all the banking agony, here is today's palace news. In a new episode of lèse-Sarko, the Elysée is threatening legal action against Ryanair for taking his majesty's name in vain along with that of Carla Bruni in le Parisien today (see below).

And Cécilia Ciganer, 50, the former Mrs Sarkozy, has won 30,000 euros preliminary damages and a ban over this week's cover of Closer magazine which compares her physique, not very favourably, with that of the new presidential favourite, aged 39.

The former Mrs Sarko is also seeking a further 250,000 euros for the emotional wounds that she suffered from this breach of her privacy. The court found the pictures to be maliciouis and Michèle Cahen, her lawyer, said: "It's horrible. It's like two consumer products being compared."

The palace is also not amused by the low-cost airline's advert which shows Bruni thinking: "With Ryanair, my whole family can attend my marriage." David Martinon, the presidential spokesman, said the advert was unacceptable and the lawyers had been called in. Clearly enjoying the publicity, Matthieu Glasson, the company's French marketing director, offered an apology. He admitted that the airline was being cheeky but said the advert did not show the future royal couple in a bad light.

 

Comments

[Daisy]

She leaves him, he gets a doppelganger to replace her. She sues, now he calls in the lawyers for his own suit. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

[Dominique]

Well well well...where is the prince of transparency? the emperor of "be yourself and don't hide", the god of "there is not such thing as privacy!"?

Gone with the wind...

[Dominique]

"With Bollor'air, my whole family can attend my marriage."

[Blendi Progri]

theres something strange about the women Sarko goes out with...

Maybe its only me, but they seem `dry`, `metalic`, `masculine looking`, `lips-pursed`, `never-happy` -- women.
----------------------------

The black and white photo (LOL @ C.B) looks like some poster out of Cinéma-vérité.
Sarko like a relatively young Marcelo Mastroiani, C.Bruni, as his new fiancé, both happily looking up towards the future (sky )
and they`ll live `appyli ever after…

[dot king]

If the taxes and charges aren't too high, we'll ALL be able to go to the Royal Wedding!
si ce n'est pas qu'une pièce montée ;0

[Caroline]

That man tossed away his own privacy and now wants it back. Too late for that now.

Loves the attention as long as he is controlling it...

[Yogi]

Looks like well deserved "retour de bâton" ... that's the "second bling" of the bling-bling effect.

[Robert Marchenoir]

When the ad has Carla Bruni speaking of her family attending her marriage, one thinks of course about Mick Jagger, Eric Clapton, Laurent Fabius, and a few others whose names elude me right now.

[azloon]

[Maybe its only me, but they seem `dry`, `metalic`, `masculine looking`, `lips-pursed`, `never-happy` -- women.] Blendi
--

Blendi --

it's not only you.

ceci appears totally absent. on another planet. not 'of this world.'

carla has the visage of a carnivore, almost shark-like (an image she apparently feels quite comfortable with.)

is this guy nuts? he could have scarlet johansen, julie delphy, maria sharapova, even brittany spears on a good day.

i think he really wants to be spanked.

[Rocket]

I think this photo comparing the two was in pretty bad taste and pointless. In spite of common belief, the French press is as capable of bottom feeding as anyone else.

Welcome to the club.

I'm just wondering "c'est pour quand, the bulge in Sarkozy's pants" on the covers?

PS - Carla threw a big B-day party for Nikolas I last night. Anyone who is anyone was there. I wonder if the gift she gave him was equal to 10 years of salary of the average French person.

http://tinyurl.com/2zgb5v

[Valentin]

"French press is as capable of bottom feeding as anyone else"

Closer is an italian paper :)

[john o'doe]

I'll admit I'd already seen the Closer cover (on a visit to my mother-in-law - not that I would buy this stuff myself you understand, sniff).
I thought comparative advertising was forbidden in France (?).
Complaints against the Ryanair ad show that the palace has no sense of humour. BTW, didn't his highness make some speech (opening a new terminal in Marseille if I remember rightly) in favour of the development of low cost airlines?

[Rocket]

Valentin

Sorry for the mistake

[Samantha]

Dominique, you didn't quite finish your very astute sentence:
"With Bollor'air, my whole family can attend my marriage...free"!

[Papa Razzi]

The advert seems just great, what can be offensive about it? It may even win an advertising industry award for good clean harmless fun, that is if there is such a thing.
When is this wretched little man going to get his personal life together, lighten up and get on with the job that he is paid to do?

[Doremi]

"is this guy nuts? he could have scarlet johansen, julie delphy, maria sharapova, even brittany spears on a good day"

Azloon,
could he? You dreaming, surely.

[dot king]

he could have scarlet johansen, julie delphy, maria sharapova, even brittany spears on a good day"

nah! he couldn't even have me on a bad day . . .

[Luffy]

It's ironic to see Rocket posting here.

He's a troll that was banned from the anti French-bashing blog Superfrenchie for...bashing the French.

Rocket has never met a French-hater he didn't like and was unable to tell us one thing he liked about the French and France after politely being asked repeatedly to do so(the guy claims he's been living in France for 30 years)

It's apparently really important for him...to spread his hatred of France on the internet (but I bet not in real life, right, roquet ?).

It's almost a pathological case.

[Lily]

Welcome to timesonline, Luffy.

So, YOU're from the anti-French-bashing police corps?

[Valentin]

"YOU're from the anti-French-bashing police corps"

Or just doing his (her) civic duty ! It's always nice to know who we're talking to.

[Lily]

"It's always nice to know who we're talking to."

:D

[Valentin]

No, not in the biblical way, Lily :P

[John Styx]

John, comparative publicity is authorized in France since 1992, with 3 reservations: it's not deceptive or liable to mislead the consumer; the comparison is made between two goods or services that fulfil the same needs or follow the same goals; the assesment has an objective quality.

So, what do you think? As for me, I would be terribly unchivalrous for a Frenchman to compare two ladies, so I'll just pass. Besides, I'm not partial to brunettes.

[Lily]

How do we know who we are talking to "in the biblical way" [thoughtful expression :/]; we don't speak of 'recognizing' the other "in the biblical way" - do you, Valentin?!

I think we don't need a bashing 'police' that uses slander.

[Valentin]

"I think we don't need a bashing 'police' that uses slander."

If I look at Rocket's posts on France, any negative stereotype is generalized, any individual fault is a national flaw; I do tend to give Luffy some credit.
But of course, when anglosaxons bash, it's free speech; when we say it's bashing, we're accused of slander.
You disappoint me Lily, I thought you weren't an anglosaxon after all :)

[Rocket]

Luffy

Thank you for the kind CV. I feel honored. I wasn't banned for French bashing, but an off color (but very funny) joke I made to one blogger. Life goes on.

I'm Jewish also so need be you can denounce me to the proper authorities for that too when the time comes.

Or maybe you already knew that if you are a participant at SF, thus the reason for your kind words.

[Blendi Progri]

AZLOON
Glad to hear that, I too think that “he really wants to be spanked” by going for that narrow margin of girls that range from “ungrateful-to-hard-to-please”.

It looks like another Sarko fetish to me.

Carla indeed has an elfish-shark`ish demeanour, a velociraptor-ish profile.
The trouble with these kind of women (the un-real, moody, anorexic & toxic ones) is that while at relatively young age, they may be a tad photogenic (pensively looking in mid distance - with the help of an artificial smile or two) BUT when they “grow” into middle/old age, the effects are scary. Mummification sets in and…well..

I wont continue…as I don’t like to be the one to compare Them with, that wonderful creature Papa Geppetto made, it will be an insult to the wonderful & warm hearted carpenter.
--------------------------------------

LUFFY-
I also welcome you to the blog and wish you to have fun and make few friends in here.

“He's a troll that was banned from the anti French-bashing blog Superfrenchie for...bashing the French.”

From what I see he makes sensible comments, and to be banned from an AntiFrench blog, from being AntiFrench, that seems like a Positive, in a strange way. Mathematically at least.

If one says enough, against the “bad things” that must change that he/she sees in France – comments which are constructive- the Anti-French blog may not like that.

They could be an uncomplicated-pathological-and- virulent, “anti-french blog,” who simply couldn`t handle constructive criticism by a Francophile, be it of English origin. i.e the case by Rocket.
Just a thought, tho…as as I don’t know his ideas well enough.

And some elaboration for fun…cos it sounds Terribly Harsh, LOL.

“Baned from anti-french website for being too anti-french.”

Most people would think that an anti-french blog, would love anti-french sentiments, lmao, but apparently it Aint so. We live and learn.

Seems like a case of…

“ Being banned from Italy from loving pasta”
“ Being banned from Israel for being too Jewish”
“ Being banned from a smokers` club for excessive smoking”
“ Being banned from a porn-site for being a sex addict”
“ Being banned from a basketball club for being too tall”

You get my drift…now either you admire the guy secretly, or he`s a real Monster, LOL.
There seems to be no middle way.

Curious to know how will Rocket reply (short of singing La Marseillaise- in middle of the Blog) against all of `em charges.

[BTW. often I wonder if the Group of volunteers singing this song for the first time, weren’t from Marseille- but lets say Lyon, what will the song be called now? ;) ]

He could produce, uncles or aunts, all French born, or even kids, but the charges laid on him seem a bit grave. LOL
----------------
Jokes aside, I believe ( despite few stereotypes,- when few folks get angry- or for fun- are used, most people in here come because they like France.
It would be pointless spending time in here just to bash the French. Either that or off-colour.
Most of us like France, its history, culture, literature, way of living, with its wonderful places and accept it as it is, with idiosyncrasies and quirks.

Many live in France (other dream too, lol) or have been there, like to go again, and up to a man or woman, we are all Francophile, and the rest is Francophone. I cant speak for Rocket or anyone for now, but for myself alone, and can say that this is the best blog –there is- to educate people about France, and Rocket isn’t a troll (lol) but just one of us contributing seriously in here (from few post I`d seen of him) anyhow...He seems to like France.

I`ll stop now as am reminded of something by a guy called Sam Clemens, who said:
I cannot keep from talking, even at the risk of being instructive.
But then the same guy, also said:
“Silence is foolish if we are wise, but wise if we are foolish” So `i`ll quit here.

I`m not sure if this calls for a group hug, and so I get a bit grumpy when Anglo-Franko relations are portrayed as anything but;

Warm

....Cosy...
... and exceptionally Friendly. ;)

[Rocket]

Valentin

You remind me of a comment I heard on CNN last night concerning R. Guiliani's sentence structure.

Subject + Verb + 9-11

In your case, it is rapidly becoming

Subject + Verb + Rocket French basher

[Rocket]

Valentin

Here's the quote by Joe Biden

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/254/story/231944.html

"Along the way, the candidate's message has been transformed.

Initially, as viciously caricatured by Delaware Sen. Joe Biden during a Democratic presidential debate, it consisted primarily of "a noun, a verb and 9-11."

[Valentin]

Rocket,

Here's a collection of your own posts the past several days :

"
In spite of common belief, the French press is as capable of bottom feeding as anyone else

We are now seeing another example of economic nationalism in France which I will explain later. This "brethren" also applies to every other sector of the French economy

I now understand why the French are nostalgic for Marxism with the kind of gutter capitalism they practice.

French journalism won't go very far seeking out the truth because they can't so the integrity of the French banking system will be intact.

This behavioural characteristic of denial is prevalent in all aspects of dealing with the French. Children learn it early and it is propagated through an education which teaches you to immediately lament that “it’s not my fault.”

Like the blind leading the blind, I always wondered how French teachers could teach civic responsibility to their students when they themselves along with a good part of the population have not the least idea what civic sense means.

Two of the closest people to you in the world and they can't even eek out a simple I'm sorry. I would bet on typical French behavior.

Easy for someone like me to understand but not for someone who is not familiar with French arrogance disguised as politeness.

No matter how well educated they are from the "best schools" in France, in spite of traveling on private jets and vacationing in the most exotic places, they still revert back to children when caught doing a "betise"

Public Services. You still can't get someone to answer the phone or respond to e mail in a "decent" (by rest of world standards) in France.
"

[concedo nulli]

Charles, May I ask why you let wbhickok's comment get through. And I suggest you don't let through comments by people who say they are "jews".What's a jew in this nice country? We require the date and place of birth before we can hope to find the label relevant.

[Sorry, it got through in the rush of comments yesterday. Now deleted. On your other point it depends on context surely. Jewish is usually the better word. The topic keeps coming up in comments but I don't recall mentioning the subject in any posts. CB]

[Luffy]

" Posted by: Blendi Progri | 29 Jan 2008 22:54:18"

Blendi Progri, Roquet was banned for bashing the French on an anti French-bashing blog, not an anti-French blog.

[Luffy]

Indeed, Valentin.

Ask rocket to name one thing, just one, he likes about France and the French.

An american-jew who's been living in France for 30 years.
Excuse me if I'm skeptical.

The guy's hatred goes so deep (and he's making efforts to keep it in check here, on Superfrenchie he was going all out) that he won't be able to come up with anything.

[dot king]

Lily, Valentin,
In English (of the English variety) we use the expression "to know someone *in the biblical sense*" to mean knowing them sexually.

This was later "translated" into "affairs of a Ugandan nature" by Private Eye magazine to explain the absence (from parliament) of government ministers, eg: "Xxxx, we believe, was detained on urgent affairs of a Ugandan nature."

I think Valentin was mixing up expressions, it has nothing to do with "knowing whom you are talking to", nor does knowing whom you're talking to have any sexual connotation, but there might well be a French expression I don't know and which approximates it. Until V explains what he means by his ":D", it will remain a mystery!

[dot king]

"In spite of common belief, the French press is as capable of bottom feeding as anyone else"
(Rocket quoted by Valentin)

In the context of what had been the topic on the reluctance of French journalists to pose the questions that matter, this is, in its way a compliment, not French-bashing at all. 'Snice really . . .

CONCEDO NULLI
I hesitated to comment on the très déplacé wbhickock post because last time I protested about some racist comment getting through without moderator interference, the American free-speech lynch-mob came after me! Gave me a hard time about it! ;0

[Valentin]

Dorothy,

Neither me, nor Lily were mixing up any expression, I think.

I said that it's good to know who you're talking to, in reference to Rocket: I think, it's relevant to know that he has a history of bashing France.
Lily played on my nuance-less phrase and added a :D, which means Wide Grin on MSN or Yahoo Messenger.
She meant that I just repeated what she said many times before: that it's nice to know each other better in order to understand better (while I was virulently - as often - defending my right to anonymity).

To her wide grin, I said I didn't mean knowing each other in the "biblical sense". I know what that means: sexual relations yes, not in the modern vulgar sense though, but in a deeper, more thorough way.
I meant that there are degrees in knowing people. I think it interesting to know that Rocket has a bashing history, or that Frank is a pure leftie, but I don't care that Rocket is jew, or Frank Irish (and I still don't think it relevant if I am a Sicilian or not :) )

And I put a :P at the end, which corresponds to a happy smiley face with the tongue out!

Voilà :)

[Valentin]

Dot,

Given Rocket's posting history, I hesitate to see the one about the press as a compliment. It's just obvious everything is bad in France.
As to the free-speech mob, I remember one time when it was me the victim, while you were the protected party, so, well ! :D

[John Styx]

Dot King, "connaître (au sens biblique)" also exists in French, though I've only ever heard it from older people. I understood Valentin's remark as a risqué pun.

":D" is a midget smiley. It's what you get when you cut the nose off ":-D" As you yourself use ";0" a few lines below, I more than suspect you're playing the innocent one!

[Valentin]

Luffy,

"Ask rocket to name one thing, just one, he likes about France and the French."

I was about to say the same, when I remembered there is ONE SINGLE thing Rocket likes about France: French patisserie :)

http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.melissaclark.net/news/archives/patisserie%2520oriental.JPG&imgrefurl=http://fr.answers.yahoo.com/question/index%3Fqid%3D20080103144854AAYATE2&h=1200&w=1600&sz=741&hl=fr&start=7&um=1&tbnid=Zc47WHOAJoUKkM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpatisserie%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dfr%26sa%3DN

[dot king]

Valentin, sorry I didn't know it was an "in-joke" or secret form of communication between you and Lily - I had no idea what you were talking about - I also thought Lily didn't. I was mistaken evidently.
You see, you just try to be helpful . . . :)
BTW the symbol :P when it comes up on my screen has the word "moqueur" after it - though I can't see why, and it doesn't particularly matter, but I thought you might like to know, or not, as the case may be. :P

[dot king]

John Styx, no, really, I wasn't playing innocent - I really thought V had his English expressions mixed up and I really thought Lily hadn't understood as much as i hadn't understood. In my way I was trying to clarify, to be helpful, but as often happens, had the opposite effect. "à la boueuse fontaine . . ." :-0

BTW when the American Free-Speech Lynch-Mob came after me (I've decided they deserve capitals), they let me off.

[dot king]

John Styx - PS - In Englsh English, I think we're more likely, those of us who do, to use knowing "in the biblical sense" in irony rather than importing any judgement. This would certainly be the case amongst my friends.
I have heard "connaître dans le sens biblique" used by radio choniqueurs, certainly in an ironic way too. Quite a lot recently, for some inexplicable reason! ;0

[Lily]

Dot,

I had used :D - which is a big smile (and has nothing to do with you or Deedee or D2 or any other D) while Valentin (from prestigious background) used :P (the meaning of which he himself explained.)

-------------------

Luffy, Valentin,

do you know these old couples who never sit together on the sofa holding hands with a kind smile but whose hearing is impaired and who will yell at one another every other moment and tell bad things about the other, always with a grim expression in their faces.

Yet, if one of them dies, the other may soon follow, out of grief.

What comes across as French bashing (Rocket), hurting sensitive souls, is - IMO - meant to be passionate constructive criticism.

I think Rocket's "passion" doesn't originate in/from hatred.

---------------------

Blendi,

I love your passionate posts. Don't feel bad about having wrongfully played with the "anti-French bashing" misunderstanding, ;) -

----------------------

[BTW: I only recently learnt to use those :)s - thanks to Rocket's link that he had kindly provided to Daniel - and am now using them a lot to get used to them.]

[John Styx]

Dot King, "à la boueuse fontaine"? I've never seen this one before! Is it used in English?

I just love this foreign expressions nobody ever uses in the alleged country of origin. As you all know, the French language uses quite a lot of so-called English words, such as "parking" (parking lot), "smoking" (dinner jacket) and so on.

The opposite is not so true, yet I was utterly baffled the first time an English pal told me: "as the French use to say, 'perdrix, toujours perdrix'". Ditto for Voltaire's "pour encourager les autres". I wonder if I can find a list of "English-French" expressions somewhere. Webster's features a list of foreign phrases but there are few French ones.

[Pierre Bernardi]

Rocket salad = salade roquette.

[Valentin]

"BTW the symbol :P when it comes up on my screen has the word "moqueur" after it"

"while Valentin (from prestigious background) used :P"

Oh come on, you formal species of people, it was moqueur, ok, but friendly moqueur. Like a slap on your back :P

"What comes across as French bashing (Rocket), hurting sensitive souls, is - IMO - meant to be passionate constructive criticism."

I gather that's your conclusion after reading my long list of quotes from Rocket. Well. If you manage to see that as constructive, especially the overall effect produced by the neverending repetition of French flaws...
You've a superb soul, Lily, and I, as mere mortal, admire you wholehearedly.

[Roger Goodacre]

John Styx - try 'Honni soit qui mal y pense' (L'incroyable histoire d'amour entre le français et l'anglais) by (Prof) Henriette Walter, published by Laffont in 2001.

Since you mention the Anglophile Voltaire, another fascinating book, touching not on language but cultural issues, is 'Voltaire's Coconuts: or Anglomania in Europe' by Ian Buruma (of Dutch descent) - see amazon.co.uk for more - "a compelling story, from Voltaire onward, of the ways in which European exiles and emigrés have fallen under the spell of the intangible mix of snobbery, liberalism, xenophobia and tolerance which make up what it means to be English" (publisher's blurb).

[Rocket]

Luffy Luffy Luffy

It was great fun for while but now it's time to "rendre des comptes". For me it is with great pleasure that I will literally destroy your argumentation and show that you are an unmitigated liar with an axe to grind for unknown reasons. Valentin and Pierre seem to have climbed aboard your train so let's go for a little ride through cyberspace.

Thing is that while you operate on hearsay. I operate on fact.

1. "An american-jew who's been living in France for 30 years.
Excuse me if I'm skeptical."

http://tinyurl.com/34evf8

That's me first row in smack in the middle. Those are not Imams in the back I believe.

I must say I am not surprised by your comment though.

2. He's a troll that was banned from the anti French-bashing blog Superfrenchie for...bashing the French.

If you bring Superfrenchie into this so will I.

And Superfrenchie was banned from a Washington Post blog for being a pain in the ass. You forgot to mention that. (So what are we in primary school here). Then as he was so incensed that anyone would do that to him he started another blog called religionsarestupid.com (I've got a screen shot of that too)

Here's the text indicating the reason for my banishment to purgatory. Like the death of John Lennon, I have never gotten over it.):D
*********************************
Comment N° 96

# SuperFrenchie Says:
October 11th, 2006 at 1:08 pm

"ME: What I said once is that Americans have not won recently in international sports unless they cheated (Armstrong and Landis). I know very well that they are capable of winning without cheating. They just haven’t done it recently, all the while while some continue to diminish the performances of others (like the French not winning the Tour de France…)

I don’t like insults either way. I have banned antiFrenchbasher who was constantly insulting Americans. Or Flagg, who was doing the same. I have also banned Americans like SuperYankee. However, note that Rocket was not banned for bashing the French, which he did plenty of, but for insulting ms. miami, an American.

There is no question however that there has been insults both ways. Like I said, I don’t like it, but I also do not ban at the first insult, unless it’s clearly racist."
***********************************
But I'm sure your saying that I just typed it up myself. So unfortunately for you I'm a bit smarter than that. Make sure to zoom!

http://tinyurl.com/329rek

And here is the famous comment which was sooo bad

Comments 160 and 161

http://tinyurl.com/ynwzgh

So as I said, have at it because your agenda is obviously one of provocation for one reason or another. You make the mistake that you think you can influence people on this blog while I sit idly by with a "bof" look on my face

http://tinyurl.com/32sh9g

Never in your life my friend.

Now if you want to go a bit further in this "discussion" we can. Over the years I've saved lots of things on the computer that might interest you. You never know what is going to crawl out of the woodwork even years after. It's really no problem for me.

But I do have a day job.

[Valentin]

Why stop half way, Rocket ? Why not continue and say that the list I compiled with your anti-French posts is out of thread context and does not show your general state of mind.

No proof needed, just the statement.
But I think it does represent your general state of mind.
It's not our fault that after 30 years living in France you sound so bitter about all things French.

[John Styx]

Roger, thank you so much. My family fled France in 1793 for England and though we didn't stay long, we've suffered from anglophilia ever since. I actually knew the lyrics of "Land of hope and glory" before the ones of the Marseillaise!

[dot king]

"Dot King, "à la boueuse fontaine"? I've never seen this one before! Is it used in English?"
(John Styx)

No,, John, I made it up (as it were) from "trying to clarify things" - my mind went to "muddy waters" (or even Muddy Waters), thence to "la claire fontaine" and its "eau cristalline" so I switched it to "boueuse", though it should really go after the noun "la fontaine boueuse" . . .
Will you allow me this bit of poetic licence? It's not always easy following my trains of thought (even for me), especially after a double lesson this morning teaching a sonnet which was protesting against sonnets! (Sort of thing I enjoy, that :))

[dot king]

"Dot King, "à la boueuse fontaine"? I've never seen this one before! Is it used in English?"
(John Styx)

No,, John, I made it up (as it were) from "trying to clarify things" - my mind went to "muddy waters" (or even Muddy Waters), thence to "la claire fontaine" and its "eau cristalline" so I switched it to "boueuse", though it should really go after the noun "la fontaine boueuse" . . .
Will you allow me this bit of poetic licence? It's not always easy following my trains of thought (even for me), especially after a double lesson this morning teaching a sonnet which was protesting against sonnets! (Sort of thing I enjoy, that :))

[Rocket]

Valentin

I think you're fundamentally honest. What I don't like is liars. If I remember correctly you have never propagated lies on this blog I don't put you in that category so your opinion is valuable to me and offers added value to this blog. Our discussions are lively and heated. Let's keep it that way and leave the lies where they belong. In the mouths of the politicians.

[dot king]

"I had used :D - which is a big smile (and has nothing to do with you or Deedee or D2 or any other D) while Valentin (from prestigious background) used :P (the meaning of which he himself explained.)"
(Lily)
Yes, but how was I to know it wasn't a confused, polite smile to cover the same confusion I was feeling? Just to cover all eventual interpretations of above, here are: :D :) :} :P ;0 - I mean it in any of those positive ways :)

[Lily]

"You've a superb soul, Lily, and I, as mere mortal, admire you wholehearedly"

Thanks, Valentin. - I haven't yet read what Rocket is saying below in his own defence but - I don't like senator John McCain. In other words, looking through the McCain 'Republican filter' - my support of Rocket is somewhat crumbling... - :) or :( ?

[Daniel Strohl]

Rocket,

"you think you can influence people"

Rocket, you should never underestimate the intelligence of people. I believe that 99,99 % of Charles' posters are able to build their judgement by themselves, through what they read with their eyes and interpret with their brains ! Many not relevant things are discarded later by memory, impressions remain much longer. And the latter remain even longer or possibly gain in intensity when they are continuously refreshed at short intervals of time ... Do you see what I mean ?

[Valentin]

Lily,
the point was not if you've read Rocket's defense (qui élude le problème de fond anyway), but if you've read, and what you think of, his 20-odd anti-French statements
(collected in 10 minutes from the last 4 threads only; a one month collection would prob make a book, a manual in French bashing).

[Maggie G]

Cute picture, Rocket. How did you get to be in the place of honour?

[Lily]

"but if you've read..."

Valentin,

I have read the condensation of Rocket's views, and I must refer you to that old couple's manners.

A. I don't applaud when Rocket is getting harsh against others.

B. I neither applaud when people lie politely/hypocritically.

I prefer the more moderate tone - personified by some on the blog but if I shall choose between A and B, I'll pick A.

With A, the shock is immediate; B will eventually hurt more, and the pain will be lasting longer.

If Luffy is critizing 'type B', I'll approve of it; to bash honest 'type A' feelings - is useless and quite inappropriate. She becomes a basher herself, and Rocket is not going to change (rather on the contrary).

[Lily]

Dot,

I will cut back on those smileys. - They are supposed to put an emphasis on this or that but it is probably best to try to pack all the meaning in words and stick with . ? and ! - UNLESS there was clearly no risk of misinterpreting the signs :).

[Valentin]

Lily,

I really resent putting Rocket's comments on display, but this line:

"This behavioural characteristic of denial is prevalent in all aspects of dealing with the French"

or this one:

"Easy for someone like me to understand but not for someone who is not familiar with French arrogance disguised as politeness"

well, you won't find the constructive part of it even if you looked with a microscope. "Harsh but fair", that's just a cliché, if I say americans are all a bunch of arrogant, uneducated morons, go tell them it's "painful but truthful".
Rocket's been moderated here before, and he did bash on the other blog too, no matter the reasons for being banned.

[Blendi Progri]

Luffy

My mistake, also my apologies for “looking but not seeing” . Thnx for pointing it out.

Maybe you are “older” in this blog, than I thought, and could know the guy more, lol
after all he admitted the troll part. (the post about the joke appeared later on, I didn’t see why he was banned – about a joke- it must have a been a `scary joke` so I wont ask about it.
I still think Mr. R is one of the good guys.
-----------------
A part of me, thou, a v. naughty one, wants to know what the joke was, so I can judge for myself if it warranted a ban, LOL, But wont ask…For now.
----------------------.

LILY

[What comes across as French bashing (Rocket), hurting sensitive souls, is - IMO - meant to be passionate constructive criticism]

I agree with that Lily. It can`t be said better.

Wheres love theres passion too. Someone disinterested about Fr, wouldnt point out things that need repair, he wouldnt be here in the 1-st place.
-------------------

BTW-The feeling is reciprocated; I am a fan of yours too. Yep. Been since I read something about your granny ;)You were describing how she gave money to her sons, and kept a rigorous account in her lists, and either your description was very thorough or granny was a very stringent one, - it fascinated me, in any-case- , and at the time my mind wandered to one of the most unique of Balzac's characters, Gobseck (from Eugénie Grandet) and LOL

(that’s a big LOL, + another ;) – in case the 1-st is misunderstood)

The only parallel I made (between the granny and Gobseck) was the thoroughness used to count the money.

I`m sure Grann was lovely, as was Gobseck a miserly dude with only one thing in common – Carefully counting of money.
.. that’s me, I always like good family stories, reminiscences and anecdotes. I have read a little, but never get bored about hearing / or reading about new ones.
========================================================.
Now…
Generally speaking, I still believe that people come in here to in way to pay homage to France and everything that is French. The individuality of France, the gentle arrogance, the nonchalance, the passion, the almost exclusive attitude, the `Joie de vivre `and so many other things; that around the world are synonym of exclusivity, class and if nothing else, her uniqueness!

I think that unless one has a lot of time in his hands, is a pathological hater towards anything French and has nothing better to do – then, only then, he/she would come here to bash France.

… tho, sooner or later will get tired.

But if someone is on a `Crusade against France, ` and wants to make it his ` raison d'être ` then a Single one of the above characteristics will suffice.
-----------------------------.
In the blog mostly people, do the same things and we `gossip` (or better still, we comment on CB`s articles) about the same things that happen almost everywhere.

It shouldn’t be takes as Criticism of France while corruption is mention, or leaders` folly, its Kafkaesque bureaucracy, financial mess, a riot here & there etc…

Every country has the same problems. With no exception. These things are not limited to France, and when mentioned & rationalised with arguments, it may seem harsher than intended to. By criticizing those – at times it comes as critique of France, but is not – We ONLY are critiquing the Phenomena.

As its impossible to start every post with a parenthesis i.e. `I love France but….`

The blog doesn’t lend itself – by design/ format- to make our Francophone intention clear in every single, post.

... the PRESENCE (alone) of everyone in here, I think (& hope) is the best validation of Francophone Intentions.

But if Rocket (the nick alone started it, lol) is That bad, then I`ll join the undersigned and ad my name to the `da-zi-bao` `till he swears that Fr is his 2-nd country. ;) if not the 1-st one.

What I have read till now, seems sensible and constructive.

Ever the Optimist.
===============

I would think something better (& bigger too) may erase misunderstandings, make this place more Alive and serve others too, not only us. I also have the suspicion that in that way, it may compartmentalise things more (in a good sense thou), and it will be great.

Of course I am thinking about a FORUM. Many times I have been meaning to ask Charles to open a post about Lets say great French Writers, (one at a time) Philosophers’, Illuminists’, or Actors (one of my fav being the gr8 - late, Yves Montaigne) but It may seem un-achievable.

If there was a forum I would love to read about different topics from different perspectives ( from inside and out of France) we will rarely venture off-topic, as there will be different chapters. And while a Joke, a simple joke about France may seem un-appropriate while we discuss times of Trouble for France- it will sound just as tha, a joke, in The Chapter of Humour.

I don’t know, if this is possible, as it may Not depend on CB alone, but I really think that a blog of this kind unparalleled in info, blogers` involvement and Quality, could easily be Transformed into a Forum. I will go as far to say that it deserves too.

The benefits will be manifold. Misunderstanding will be avoided, a simple presentation will be possible ( i.e. I`m 37 y/o have got : 2 kids + 1 wife etc…education / origin, hobbies, so we know even more about each –other.

Let say I want to say Hi & Thanks to LILY.

A simple enough gesture.
& I want to make it funny,
So I say:
“Thanx Ma`am.”

Lily, could be 24 y/o ( for what I know), so she jumps up and throws cups & plates at my direction and a mini-war starts, LOL, but if there`s a different members` chapter to present everyone, many things could be, different.
In Dallas, Texas, I would had gotten a Hug for that and called A Gentleman.

A `subject` like France will have enough things for anyone to include in every field, also few moderators (older and sensible members – could do this voluntarily) could help to `police` the Forum and help new members.

I genuinely think that this Blog has reached a point that is DESERVES to be a Forum.

Will gladly read anyones` arguments concerning this.

A blog is good, but is only a blog.
a Forum could be a real community. I`m optimists enough that one day it could be done and where better to do a Anglo–Franco Forum than under Charles Bremner Blog, his sensible opinions and guidance.

Hope it aint a utopia, a simple idea that will never be realised, maybe The Times will give it a though, and if many others think it could be done, it may get done.
------------------------------------------------------------.

The group `mostly` under fire, LOL, lets make an acronym out of it ..

The ART group /pack ( Azloon / Rocket and Terry- I note, there are other combinations, but this sounds better .lol ) I think gives the blog a distinctive flavour.

With the same interest I read from Domnique, Valentin and Pierre Bernardi (a movie star`s name, if there was ever one in the blog ;) )
It is sometimes the `clashes` that give our blog the spark, other ways it will be dull and monochrome.

I always will stop to see what Valentin said to Azloon or what did Az say to Val abut this or that.

Most of us will. Read, chuckle, smile and know deep down that all these guys want to do is :
invite each-other for a beer. And they will, if it wasnt in public.

I wont their compare their physionomy, but they `seem` like two main guys from the movie "Ronin".
One french ( Jean Reno) and one american ( R. de Niro.)

The best quote of the movie by the way to me is ( after Michael Lonsdale removes the bullet from his abdomen) when De Niro does that trademark grimace of his and says:
` if you dont mind, I`m gonna pass out` --and he does just that. LMAO.

back...

One is sure that Azloon will bring the flammable liquid and you can bet your last Euro/ $ or Pound, that Val, never short of an incendiary device will join in. Sparks will fly. LOL.

Of course there are quite days, AZ comes into town – hands inside the pockets- innocently whistling and generally being good, coming in peace, with only a lighter [just in case- a guy needs to pack some heat] and only`passing by` , Val looks at him once, twice...three times... then, and then, produces the petrol, daring him with the fumes alone.

Never one to let a pyrotechnics’ display (to you and me folks, - is called a FIRE) fizzle away, AZLOON illuminates the field up. And that’s how it goes – like the `cycle of life` itself
… while one produces the flame the other... …Lovely. I`m a fan.

The moment these people (who hate each-other, to the point of nearly-being-friends) `made –up` I`ll quit. Yep. ;)
-------------------------------------------------

On a serious note, it shows a lot about everyone’s character and convictions; the manner they follow arguments with dedication, passion and ingenuity; how they positioned themselves in way that may seem `partisan ` to the average onlooker, but just represents genuine beliefs. I`m sure that most in here are intelligent enough to simply move on each side of an argument and make a convincing case –whicever way (!), and by holding the `usual` trench shows not just courage but a great distinction too.
----------------
Just a question to end, has anyone “seen” Peter Kinsley as I haven’t seen anything by him lately. Am concerned and Hope that he`s well and will be back soon.

p.s.s who`s wbhickock and what did he say – I mean what subject was it, as I missed that.

[Rocket]

Blendi

"The ART group /pack ( Azloon / Rocket and Terry- I note, there are other combinations, but this sounds better .lol ) I think gives the blog a distinctive flavour."

We just need a "Frank" to join our group and then we would be the FART group/pack.

But I must admit I like the name FART Pack better. :D

[Valentin]

Peter Kinsley is mad at us bashing communism on the "French reverence to old lefties" thread :))

[Lily]

Blendi,

what a handsome and fine gentleman you are! Thank you, and I agree with you about your call for a "Forum" although it could be confusing because there could well be 20+ threads open in parallel at one given time.

Here, we read about topics that we're less interested in, too, which is exactly why our mix is so fascinating. Information-wise a forum is preferable.

---------------------

Valentin,

Rocket's feelings are honest. You may disagree with him but you cannot alter his views; at least not if you don't allow him to speak.

If more and more people come up telling positive stories about our French neighbours, Rocket will feel isolated and wonder why his perception is so different.

So, let's make an effort and praise the French more. But then, praise is so American - hmm. It would be a cure adapted to the "illness", though.

I don't think there's any other cure.

PS: Rocket, I don't think you're ill; I am just using this as a metaphor.

[Luffy]

It's rich being called a liar by the roquet. :D

Rocket hasn't told you that Superfrenchie banned him after he...insulted a female poster.
That was the straw that broke the camel's back after a litany of anti-French posts.

And my comment about me being skeptical about a jewish American living in Paris for 30 years stands.

I mean according to people like you, Paris is the Mecca of both anti-americanism and anti-semitism.

So why would you wanna knowingly (or so you think) subject yourself to that ?

And we're still waiting for the one thing, just one, you like about the French.

And please, try to avoid the wine and cheese clichés. One doesn't stay in a country for 30 years for food only. ;)

[Note from CB. I think it's time to close this argument. And I'll be a bit more vigilant about editing comments.]

[Rocket]

Yes, let's close this argument.

Just as a note Luffy is none other than EYGH...
Too many similarites with things he said to me to the word another blog.

Now try to have a nice day anyway my merry late night Breton fisherman

[Luffy]

Sorry, CB.

I'm not EYGH.

[dot king]

Blendi - your forum, apart from Valentin who has French nationality, what would be French about it? Or do you propose something that is an off-shoot from Charles' Paris Weblog, but has not much French about it? If such a thing had to be named then I suggest at least that the name should suggest "Frenchness".
(Though given the amount of hot air sometimes, maybe Rocket's FART definitley isn't to be sniffed at ;0) )
Personally, I'm against the idea - the good thing about this blog is that at any stage you can say to yourself "it's only a blog".

BTW Hickock's post was a highly gratuitous vulgar, offensive and sexist one-liner, higher up this thread.

I remember posting something positive some time ago - it was to the effect that the CGT was helpful to me when I was being made redundant from a job - that brought about a fair amount of Dot-bashing because the French (on this blog) don't want to hear anything in favour of a union - perhaps especially the CGT.

France has a system of government and working which is (I think) unique and closed, it's so different from what anyone from outside France is used to that the differences, some of which result in sheer ponderousness, pedantry, and often frustration that we react against it. Trying to point out differences and explain that there might be another way to see things is a lost cause with people who have never experienced anything else - or have experienced something worse - in which case France is "the bee's knees".

Enfin bref, I think that secretly the French here quite "enjoy" the (usually soft-core) "French-bashing" otherwise they'd say "après tout, ce n'est qu'un blog" and leave.

Valentin, i don't think Peter Kinsley is mad at you or anyone because of anything you might have argued about communism - as i recall, he gave facts and figures about real deaths and real suffering that you and Terry had turned into abstract ideas. It was getting shocking. I'm pretty certain he just lost patience. (It's one of the guaranteed effects of arguing with you and Terry :))
Peter's a writer, quite possibly getting on with his writing, with any luck he'll be back soon.

[Pierre Bernardi]

Some years ago, French railways produced a company ski jacket. It read, next to the picture of a ski boot and a TGV, "Fartez SNCF". Needless to say, the pun had to be abandoned for the UK market (by felt tipping an extra bar on the F, "Polish your skis with SNCF" became a more palatable "Go with SNCF).

[Pierre Bernardi]

What kind of a name is "Blendi Progri"? Is it plural for Blendo Progro?

I have a lot to live up to. Type http://qcd.free.fr to find out more, and why I chose QCD as a pseudonym.

On the plus side, I just zoomed in on my name and blanked out all the other rubbish you wrote alongside!

[Valentin]

Dot, about Peter K, you got it totally wrong, it is me and Terry who gave references, facts and numbers, and he the one flooding us with nazi sympathiser names :)

And then the other post, with the flood of anti communist remarks, of course, disgusted him completely !

As to the French, it happens as you say, that's why there are very few here, mainly me and Dominique.

[Rocket]

Pierre

I have particular problem when I visit Germany because I don't speak the language.

What am I supposed to do when I see the sign "ausfahrt" on the highway.

Does that mean Gas station ahead?

[EYGH]

Rocket,

Luffy is not me. I'm myself and totally unique. Thank you.

And if, as some posters here seem to (naively) think, your anti-French rants are a sign of your "passion" for the country and its people, then as far as you are concerned :

ce n'est plus de l'amour c'est de la rage !

---------------

Lily,

Have you ever been on the receiving end of heavy bashing because you're German ?

------------

Dot King,

Personnaly I do not particularly appreciate being bashed. No doubt that some French people are masochists or self-haters but I don't think it is the case of the few who attend here. In general, I think the French are rather self critic and thick skinned but there are limits, you know.

Seriously, on the whole, I don't see many real constructive criticism. It is more along the line that we should radically change our ways, our societal organisation and be different from who we really are (which is the result of 2000 years of history and culture). Pretty absurd and useless IMO.

The nature and the range of the criticism here can be so excessive, it is laughable. What is even more ridiculous is the way some French medias and politicians relay those. It is definitely not helping.

I must admit I've been often impressed by the incredible ability from our anglo friends to manage to see the straw in our French eyes despite the huge beam poking out of their own eyes.

And yes I have travelled, worked and lived abroad. I do realise a certain number of things need improvement and/or change. But it should be done intelligently within the French reality.

I came here to get a feel on what and how anglo-saxons think.

Let's say, it is a good thing that despite having some British friends, I wasn't particularly anglophile before.

[Rocket]

EYGH

And if, as some posters here seem to (naively) think, your anti-French rants are a sign of your "passion" for the country and its people, then as far as you are concerned :

ce n'est plus de l'amour c'est de la rage !
*********************************

Give it up will you! Basta ya!

[Maggie G]

"Dot, about Peter K, you got it totally wrong, it is me and Terry who gave references, facts and numbers, and he the one flooding us with nazi sympathiser names :)"

Valentin, is this supposed to be funny? It's DISGUSTING.

What I seem to remember is Terry's remarks being removed from the blog because they were defamatory, and Mr Bremner closing down the thread.

What exactly are you trying to prove by bringing this up again?

[Daniel Strohl]

Rocket,

"Give it up will you! Basta ya!"

Rocket, you are not very patient or tolerant - you should however, if you want others to be patient and tolerant with you!

[Lily]

EYGH,

I have been on the receiving end of heavy bashing* which was not because of my nationality. I don’t take much national “pride”; it’s a concept that doesn’t suit me. I am aware of the stains on my national heritage, and there is no stainless national heritage anywhere.

My love declarations for the victims/survivors of German insane hatred can be found on this blog. I don’t want to get soupy over this, although ROCKET’s disorientation on the German Autobahn doesn’t leave me indifferent. I am sorry, and I will always sense the huge wound that Germans inflicted on the Jewish people and on themselves, the senseless death and irrevocable loss.

Our postman told me when he went to Germany for the first time and had just crossed the border, he frenetically tried to locate on his map where he was but just couldn’t find ‘Ausfahrt’ anywhere on his map which appeared to be a big city, given the many exits leading there. – Rocket, you could try this one on another occasion.

* When I’m on the receiving end and no argument will help clear the situation, there is no perfect solution. The best that I have found, though, is to stay away from confrontation with the basher and his rage, if I so perceive it. I won’t deal with it. (I try…)

His rage may eventually starve out (without warranty). More importantly, you don’t join him in his rage. You leave his rage with him and don’t allow him to pass it on to you. His rage could be important to his own inner debate, to his growth.

It’s up to you and me, everyone to see the other one in his own spiritual process and not allow his struggles to interfere with your/my own spirituality/inner debate, unless both sides gain from it.

This is essentially a revolutionary act.

Attacks that go both ways aren’t.

A friend once sent me this:

“No one is entitled to hate another one or to judge him.
You may love him and serve him
Or stay away from him.
That’s all.”

[Blendi Progri]

LILY, There`s no answer to that LOL.

Just I`ll ask for a Hug.Yep right here, me and you, a friendly Hug. ;)

You been proposed once for a Nobel Price, for Peace, I can do not more than nominate you for another one, A Noble Price for “Chemistry”, no worries about too many medals as you wont be the fist girl with “two Nobels”.

So is it a Hug?
(let me know in another post, lol)

Dot – I understand that a forum will be a little complex. But once the teething probs are over, it may be better. I agree that The Forum must be about Frenchness of course, and only about France, ( as seen from the eyes of people outside, and inside, a real mix of ideas) with different chapters such as: History, Culture, Humour, Politics, Notable Figures, Cinema, Music, Downloads, Language etc…I understand that is Huge compared to a blog, but it can be done.

It must be build in this blog, (so the blog transforms into a forum- with the same members + new ones. Or as a link and based on the blog.

Advantages are several: Comments may be more serious (now, they aren’t bad either) a Theme can be found easy, people will find more themes in common and post in mostly what interests them. Moderating can be done by members… Practical, as if there aren’t new Topics (as it happen at times) one can go and read/ post in the topic he likes..etc… I think a forum could attract more people and generate more ideas. Also people will find more diff. topics to contribute.
-----------------------------------.

When the “main man” usually says the topic is closed, is better to close it, and not just on respect alone.

But still…I have to reply to you, at least.

From the way you wrote this, - Pierre Bernardi- and also the tone used, it is clear that you are Upset. Very Upset.

I say, “hand in heart” didn’t mean any offence. No irony intended, so don’t read anything behind it. I just mentioned it, `cos liked the `harmonious sound` it has, no more, no less.

Just liked and still do, as it sounds like a great name to me (melodious, international, urbane and fluid… like something a writer, or an actor would have) there was nothing bad about that.

Rest assured that if and when I want to say something straight to you about (or in reply to) what concerns me, or a limit that you intentionally cross, you`ll be the 1-st to hear it. Other ways, I wont cross a bad word with you, nor anyone. ;)

I fully understand your reaction thou… (I would have done the same if I perceived that someone was mocking my name…) as you though something I didn’t mean.

Misinterpretations can happen.

Took care to put a smile after ;) but it seems that wasn’t enough. I reiterate, it wasn’t in a bad way, whatsoever!

As for my crap, it wont matter when the reply was based a simple misunderstanding.
Pierre I wish you well and hopefully this reply will go someway to satisfy you that no harm was meant.
--------------------------------------------------.

Anyhow, this theme is closed now ( at least to me, lol) and whoever has something for me…i.e. a Hug – I hope….I`ll be on other Topics. ;)

[Valentin]

Maggie G (again) :
"what exactly are you trying to prove by bringing this up again"

Nothing at all, I promise. Look, I made a joke about Peter's absence - I happen to like his stories too, go figure.
And surprise surprise, there jumps Dorothy commenting the old thread and putting me and T in a bad light, when the aggressor was rather Mr. Kinsley and his off-the-road posts on N-sympathizers.
I don't particularly like it when someone makes proclamations about a situation where I felt injustly attacked. So I replied to Dorothy saying just that.

I won't go back to that topic again, provided no politically-correct bien-pensant really wants me to. Thank you.

----
Charles, I'd quite like to jump in again on the France-bashing topic - in case it isn't really closed.

[Pierre Bernardi]

Well all right then Blendi, you can join my fan club: "Leave JK alone!"

[Pierre Bernardi]

Bashing mostly informs us of the Basher's insecurities (I say this with Dorothy in mind). Obviously Dot, my comment is meant to improve you. You should take it constructively. You can't see yourself from the outside so you can't be expected to see all the things that might be 'tweaked' to make you perfect. Imagine you were a tiny country that had lived all on its own for 2000 years and all of a sudden it had to join the rest of the world. You'd be a bit confused, wouldn't you? So just listen to all the good advice we have to give you and try to be a little less stubborn. It really is for your own good.

[dot king]

"And surprise surprise, there jumps Dorothy commenting the old thread and putting me and T in a bad light, when the aggressor was rather Mr. Kinsley"
(Valetin)
You and Terry WERE in a bad light.
Valentin you must be very thick-skinned if you really think you were "in the right" in that debate. You are quick to label others but you don't seem to take a long look at yourself.
And I've noticed before that when you see someone hasn't posted for a while, then you have a go at them, BEHIND THEIR BACK - that's why I answered you, because you didn't deserve to get away with it.
And I see from Maggie's post that I'm not the only one who thinks so.
I followed that debate without joining in, with growing horror at the way it was developing. I think you can take the fact that it was closed down as being YOUR and Terry's responsibility. Such outpourings of hate - and then you complain about French-bashing?
Do me a favour.

[Rocket]

Lilly

"I don’t want to get soupy over this, although ROCKET’s disorientation on the German Autobahn doesn’t leave me indifferent. I am sorry, and I will always sense the huge wound that Germans inflicted on the Jewish people and on themselves, the senseless death and irrevocable loss."

I think there is a very large misunderstanding in your comment. I was speaking about a gasoline station where you buy petrol and it falls in my sense of humor since we were speaking about the word "Fart" (ausfahrt) Fart in English means passing wind (gas)through the bottom side. "aus" means out in German I believe. Thus the two languages together make for a funny joke. I don't know the German word for this.

My comments had nothing to do with Shoah. I do appreciate the expression of your feelings though.

PS on the same register. I once had a French friend (yes, it's true!)who had some fish in an acquarium and she let them die and they were floating around the surface for days. When I told her to take care of the fish so they wouldn't die her response was.

Les fish, je m'en fiche.(heavy chuckle)

[Lily]

Rocket,

lol!

Aus-fart - would be Ausfurz [aus-furts] - in German! :~)

[dot king]

pierre, i spent all last week defending the french notarial system against an onslaught from that all-french boy, valentin, and now you seem to be accusing me of french-bashing.
je n'y comprends plus rien, qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire?
has the british half of you lost it's sense of fair play? just not cricket imo ;0

[Valentin]

Dot,
I assure you my comment about Peter wasn't mean. It was half joke, half provocation to get him back, in case he still reads us.
I don't hold any grudge, although I'm firmly convinced we were far less aggressive and less personally so than he was towards us. I see communism and far left as the enemy; in a sense, you may even call it hate; in any case, its the same feeling some have towards some other -isms.

As to Maggie, here, I'll put it plainly , I have the feeling she got into a pattern of prejudice and she's tempted to go against my point on any kind of subject. Well too bad, I don't care much about it, but it's saddening.

[dot king]

Oh dear, Valentin, we're all SUCH a disappointment to you aren't we?
Peter's aggressive and communist, I constantly misunderstand you, and Maggie is saddening you by being in a pattern of prejudice.

You are the only clear-thinking individual on this whole blog. You must be feeling very lonely. :(

Perhaps you need a group hug . . .
It'll be a small group, I fear.

[Maggie G]

"Look, I made a joke about Peter's absence...And surprise surprise, there jumps Dorothy commenting the old thread and putting me and T in a bad light" (Valentin)

No, Valentin, that wasn't a "joke" about Peter's absence. You said, "Peter Kinsley is mad at us bashing communism on the "French reverence to old lefties" thread :))"

You were insinuating that Peter Kisley is a communist, when you know very well that he isn't.

You accused him of being a communist because he said that the international brigandes in the Spanish Civil War were fighting "for democracy", when they were principally made up of communist volunteers. I pointed out that the reason people said the communists were fighting "for democracy" was that the Left had been democratically elected in Spain, and overthrown by a military coup from the Right.

If saying that the international brigades were fighting "for democracy" labels Peter as a Communist, then following the same logic that must mean that you are a Fascist, since your preference is for the side that was supported by Hitler and Mussolini.

Are you a Fascist, Valentin? How would you like it if some of us on the blog, say Lily and Dot and I, decided amongst ourselves that you were a fascist, and started making all our references to you as "the Blog Fascist". For example, "What did you think about what the Blog Fascist said about Obama this morning?" or "The Blog Fascist nearly drove me nuts, going on and on about how wicked notaires are, when he admitted himself he knows almost nothing about them."

What if you protested, and said, "I'm not a fascist!!", and we just ignored you and kept right on referring to you that way -- maybe shortening it to B.F. , and making "jokes" about it (chuckle, chuckle).

Do you think you would like it?

Well, that is exactly what you are doing to Peter Kinsey. You are insinuating that he is a communist.

It isn't funny, and it isn't nice, and it isn't true.

So don't do it.

[Maggie G]

Valentin,

You say you think I have a prejudice against you, and automatically go against your point on any subject.

I spoke out on your comments about Peter Kinsley because I happen to have a certain amount of respect for you, and I don't like to see you lowering yourself to that level. There is another person on this blog that I would not bother to correct, but with you I do not think it is a hopeless case, and so I speak out.

There are certain things you say that I disagree with (one that I strongly disagree with), but there are several things about you that I admire, such as your decision to become French with all your heart. I admire your passionate defense of French republican values, I admire the depth of your knowledge of French history -- I have been in France a lot longer than you have, yet I don't know the history half as well as you do, nor do I write in French as well, nor do I read much French literature. (But then you CHOSE to come here, whereas I most definitely did not).

Sometimes you appear arrogant and intolerant, but I give you a certain amount of leeway because I believe you did not grow up in a peaceful country like I did -- I have the feeling that you likely grew up amidst chaos and worse, and so you need time to thrash out your demons. Perhaps I am wrong, and you ARE just an arrogant, opinionated asshole, but I am not ready to classify you that way just yet.

So far I think you are a decent, honest human being. Did you notice that Rocket said that about you too yesterday? You were saying all those nasty things about him, and he turned around and said some very nice things about you.

So sorry to get on your nerves, but I do it for a reason.

[Valentin]

Dot,
Sorry to break this news to you, Mags, you and Pete are far from representing "the whole blog".
I made a joke and tried to provoke Peter into coming back. You two taking it so seriously shows it's really time to GET OVER IT.

Maggie, seriously now, we discussed the Spain brigades, I said both sides were undemocratical, and Peter insisted only the far-right was so. He kept the same attitude all through that thread. A bit like Frank Schnittger, your other hero, insisting Cuba is a democracy.

I didn't attack Rocket (could you quote some of those nasty things?). I said he's heavily bashing France lately, I believe it's the truth and I explained why I think that. In the past I said that his criticism is constructive, because I thought it was so, based on his posts, and nothing else.
If you called me a fascist, I would post tons of former posts showing my reasonable opinions, on environment, social security, anti racism and so on. I would post so many of them that your libel would be lost :)

As to yourself, the last ten times or so I felt it was criticism for the sake of it. I'm glad to find out I was wrong.

"Perhaps I am wrong, and you ARE just an arrogant, opinionated asshole"

Perhaps you're wrong, perhaps not, or maybe both :) I only admit to my (very very rare :D) arrogance. My only defence is that I always justify my statements. I noticed CERTAIN people here react to the package rather than to the core. Here's an arrogant line: if they're unable to get over their own ego, tant pis pour eux ! :)

[Valentin]

Dot to Pierre
"je n'y comprends plus rien,"

This seems to occur rather often lately, Dorothy... hope this blog isn't too intellectual for you, all of a sudden. Are you quite fine there, should we maybe speak slower and louder? :)

[Daniel Strohl]

Valentin,

"should we maybe speak slower and louder? :)

Yes, please! I have got hearing problems .)

[Maggie G]

"Perhaps you're wrong, perhaps not, or maybe both :) I only admit to my (very very rare :D) arrogance"

You see, Valentin, this is why I like you. I can critisize you fairly heavily, and you always manage to come up with a reasonably gracious and humorous reply.

So for the time being I will continue to consider you an okay person.

Just don't misrepresent other people, and I will keep off your back.

[dot king]

"If you called me a fascist, I would post tons of former posts showing my reasonable opinions"

OK, you're a fascist, and your "reasonable opinions" shouldn't take up too much space.

"Sorry to break this news to you, Mags, you and Pete are far from representing "the whole blog".

I never thought that Maggie, Peter and I were the whole blog and certainly never said so (BTW do you have Peter's permission to call him Pete - is he suddenly one of your best friends? And "Mags"?)
I see you are now having a go at Frank in his absence which is exactly what I said you did habitually, thank you for proving it.
I suggest you are the one lacking sharpness of intellect here, you come out with so much rubbish that you can't even remember what you've posted.
Does it never occur to you that if so many people are in disagreement with you, that you might just be wrong? That their opinions are worth considering? Have you noticed that there are very few people who engage you in debate?
I said I wouldn't again, I meant it until I saw the cowardly attack on Peter in his absence, usual knife-in-the-back tactics.
Unlike Maggie and Lily who are nice to you even if they speak sternly, even if Rocket says nice things about you, I find you puerile and intolerable.
And now I shan't reply to anything you post no matter what.

[Valentin]

Oh shut up Dorothy, nobody's your enemy. Cheer up now will you?
(you cannot not reply to me, now that I got used to you, Im gonna tease you till you do :) )

[AndyPandy]

This looks a nice sort of club with awful nice people. Can I join? I live in Paris - up the road HIMSELF the HERO of this article.

[Valentin]

You're welcome, Andy! May you prove worthy of the honour bestowed upon you, and a proud member of the gang ! :)
(next time the drink's on you btw!)

[millier marc]

did you know about the NOUVELLE OBSERVATEUR's news.
SARKO sent a sms to CECILIA 8 days before the wedding with CARLA.
Si tu reviens j'annule tout.
its not the prive life!! this news show the caracter of this man!!!!
in all circontances! privte or politics..

its may true !!!!!!!!!! its very very worrying for FRANCE..

The french president is the chief of army with nuclear weapon...

[Daniel Strohl]

Milier Marc,

Do you believe everything you read in a paper - in this case the Nouvel Observateur ?

Was un "envoyé spécial" of the Nouvel Obs behind Sarkozy looking over his shoulder what he was typing on his portable keyboard - of course with special Sarkozy's permission ?

Sans vouloir vous vexer, c'est une histoire à dormir debout...

[dot king]

Daniel, I wish you a soft landing!

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot King,

Merci pour votre sollicitude ! As a young man, I have made a few parachute jumps - never experienced any landing problem - LOL !

Seriously now : If Le Nouvel Obs has really printed the above, ça vole bas!

If I were a journalist "de gauche", in a renowned weekly, I would try to elaborate some more interesting critics than low flying attacks ad hominem.

[dot king]

Daniel, I think when people post this kind of stuff, they aren't just dealing "low blows". I think they're trying to say that the man could be this sort of manipulator at the political level.
Whether it's true or not I agree isn't very interesting in itself, at the very least it's not very flattering for "poor Carla". If it is true, then it's a personality flaw in someone with a great deal of power - I stand in the shoes of Marc Millier here, seeing it from the point of view I think he's trying to express.
You know I wouldn't entertain such an idea myself! ;}

[Rocket]

Daniel

"Do you believe everything you read in a paper - in this case the Nouvel Observateur ?"

I read the story myself and was wondering about the source. I know sources are confidential in this case but I would think that if Sarko et Madame sue Ryanair (blessed be it's low prices), he would at least be up in arms about a story like this. Isn't it character assassination?

They might have someone well placed at Orange as all SMS are stocked.

The question is... How far is the French media sinking now? It seems as if the floodgates have been opened. Mitterrand is chuckling in his grave.

[Valentin]

Là en l'occurrence, pas une goutte de bashing, par contre... Alas.

[Daniel Strohl]

Rocket,

"How far is the French media sinking now? ... Mitterrand is chuckling in his grave !"

Yes, Rocket, but I have to point out again (I did it already in a former post) that generally speaking the French media went courageous only after Mitterrand had left the Elysée. And some waited even until he was really "mort et enterré" - on ne sait jamais!

The same probably think that now, with Sarko, the (retaliation) danger is close to nil. This again is another form of courage ...

Dot,

There are many stone casters in the press right now ("Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone").

This makes me think of the following quote, which I found thanks to a link from EYGH : "It is hard to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on him not understanding it". (Lack of) circulation is a big problem for the written press.

[dot king]

Daniel ("Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone").
- I didn't make that comment - I would rather have said "people in glass houses shouldn't take a bath" :)

[azloon]

re: about this blog string

YAWN.................................

can't we get back to important (and interesting) material such as sarko and carla, and away from our incestuous, internecine tussles.

i think i will sign off and go back to reading the telephone book.

[Daniel Strohl]

Azloon,

Please stay with us! LOL!