Grumbling to work in the Paris strike

I wonder what to call the Paris equivalent of 'blitz spirit', London's term for pulling cheerily together in the midst of mayhem.

Commuters in the French capital and, more importantly, its outlying suburbs, were not exactly grinning and bearing it this morning as they struggled to work amid the transport strike. Bad temper was more the order of the day. There was some sense of shared adversity among the pedestrians who were tramping along around me on the march downhill from the 17th arrondissement to the centre of town. But there was not much blitz spirit in the snarled-up traffic. Intersections were jammed, with drivers leaning on horns and cursing one-another. Scooters weaved kamikaze-style through them, cutting up the cyclists who appeared en masse today -- not just on Vélibs but on vélos new and old. At least the sun was shining. I saw two punch-ups between drivers, but that is only a little above average. Out in the badlands beyond the périphérique, people sat in jams for hours, listening to radio reports of 150 kilometres of bouchon around the region (French traffic reporters take special delight in telling motorists how many kilometres of jam they are sitting in. There's none of that cheery New York chopper talk: "We gotta little traffic backed up on the 59th street bridge approach, Chuck, but no big deal.).

So it is with some relief that we hear that both sides appear to have lost their nerve for a long battle and have started talking.

The CGT, the most "militant" of the big unions, has compromised and agreed to talk to President Sarkozy's government sector-by-sector rather than demanding a single deal on public sector retirement. One of the more amusing moments of the morning was hearing  Jean-Christophe Le Duigou, the CGT's chief negotiator on the matter, inventing a new word on France Inter Radio: "Nous ne sommes pas par nature des gréviculteurs!", he said. "We are not, by nature, strike cultivators" -- a play on "agriculteur", or farmer. 

That must have sounded good to the millions stuck in "la galère". This standard term during strikes, with an image of slaves rowing a roman galley, translates prosaically into British jargon as "misery".   

Seen from mid-morning, it looks as though the big strikes will peter out after a couple more days, with the hardliners disrupting some services until next week. François Hollande, the Socialist party leader, and therefore on the workers' side, has just called on the strikers to go back to work tomorrow.

The trouble rumbles on at les facs, the universities, where leftwing students are for the umpteenth time trying to restage the uprising of May 1968. About 30 universities are still "blocked" by protesting students. The video below, from Nanterre, the university on the west of Paris, is interesting. You can see the riot police clearing out the protestors at the request of the university president yesterday while anti-strike students cheer the cops on. The demonstrators, you may note, chant the old 1968 taunt at the CRS police:  "Pétain, reviens, tu as oublié tes chiens" (Petain, come back, you forgot your dogs -- referring to Philippe Pétain the leader of the wartime collaboration with the occupying Nazis).

French strike jargon is fascinating. I'll post a little glossary in a day or two.

Forces de l'ordre à l'université de Nanterre 

Comments

[The 3rd Column]

Charles,

Re "The trouble rumbles on at les facs, the universities, where leftwing students are for the umpteenth time trying to restage the uprising of May 1968. About 30 universities are still "blocked" by protesting students. "

I agree that our uni system is far from being ideal considering the meagre resources available to them but these students must decide once and for all whether they want to have an education or not.

There are thousands of students who are demoralized not by the level of education they are getting in the unis but by the the constant nibbling of left-leaning students and who constantly cause the mess in most classes. (My son dropped out of uni in his first year and enrolled in a grande école because he felt that there's too much distraction in the university. The distractions are caused by students who believe the university is one big party house all the time.)

I support President Sarkozy. Time to clip the wings of the saboteurs both in public service and in universities.

[Frank Schnittger]

As with many other things, the 1960's didn't happen until the 1970's in Ireland. I vividly recall the mass student protests against high unemployment/taxation/inflation and the control of everything by an old bourgeois elite consisting of the Catholic Church, the political establishment and a Capitalist elite who had dismally failed to invest and modernise the economy.

Students would organise in the Autumn term, hold mass protest/sit-ins/blockades in the Spring term, and then focus on the exams after Easter. When the pattern was repeated in the 1980's there was a dramatic change. The protesters were much smaller in number and were booed by their fellow students.

The reasons for the change were complex, but I think the major factor was economic. The 1970's were relatively prosperous in the context of Irish history, and the protests focused more on social and religious issues - the power of the Catholic church, abortion, contraception and the overweening sense of being governed by an Ancien Regime totally out of touch with the modern world.

By the 1980's that prosperity had collapsed, emigration was again high, and students were much more focused on getting a job and personal survival in a difficult economic climate.

I suspect the French protests now will suffer a similar fate. The climate has changed. Tolerance of the romantic notions of 1968 has ebbed away. The students/trade union leaders are just going through the traditional motions, but they have lost the plot and the people.

Most people realise that however they may dislike Sarkozy, there really is no alternative to the reforms he is proposing. It is going to be a humiliating climb-down for the Unions if Sarkozy holds his nerve. First the Socialist party disintegrates after the defeat of Royal, now they will be followed by the hard-line Union establishment.

France could be in for a period of dramatic change, and that change will reverberate throughout Europe and, to a lesser extent, the world. A sleeping giant has stirred…

[The 3rd Column]

"

I suspect the French protests now will suffer a similar fate. The climate has changed. Tolerance of the romantic notions of 1968 has ebbed away. The students/trade union leaders are just going through the traditional motions, but they have lost the plot and the people." -- Frank Schnittger

It seems it's going that way. Have just watched the mid-day news on TF1 and political commentator seems to say that labour unions know they don't have general support of public.

[rocket]

Frank

"A sleeping giant has stirred…"

I wouldn't go that far Frank but this strike is definitely different than previous strikes for several reasons.

First of all it was impopular from the get go for the majority of the French. With all of the talk of loss of purchasing power, people do want to go to work and earn money.(which is a dirty word for a certain "categorie de personnel" These kind of strikes cause loss of revenue through obligation to take RTT days etc.

The notion of ""penabilité du travail is not applicable in this case and the French themselves knew it.

France also has a retirement system through redistribution. French people are tired of seeing their money wasted. Thrown down the drain for an infinite percentage of people who totally disrupt daily life through strikes. I say It's about time people see this!

Second the Governement is not sitting around letting the world pass by as they have always done in the past. They are sending a clear message. Yes, we'll negotiate but the actions of the strike are causing a prejudice against innocent people and against the country as a whole. In other words, the egotistical actions of some are penalizing all and this time it is not acceptable.

Thirdly. For the first time since I have been here (1977), the press has gotten on the anti - strike bandwagon. The fear which is so prevalent in this society is evaporating like a pond in a desert on this one.

What is unfortunate is that the left is so stuck on the salary raise of Sarkozy. (They aren't even aware that the real reasons for the raise were in order that the President be accountable for his expenses.) A first in the history of France.

The left is so in disarray that they have no real arguments other than invoking stigmatization of one group against another and talking about the the "méfaits" of capitalistic society.

The Socialists lost Let's hope that they will soon go into the trash heap of history where they belong and take some of the French unions with them.

[Frank Schnittger]

"So why don't the French just say Protestant? THAT WOULD BE ADMITTING THEY ARE "CATHOLIC". France is officially secular, and ever since the Church openly opposed democratic regimes from 1789 to 1944, "Catholic" has been a dangerous word.

Yet while countries like Italy and Spain are more fervent followers of Catholicism, they never created a State as Catholic as France's, which is heavily centralized, heirarchical, and homogenizing. It is almost as if the French studied the Catholic Church and created their State in its image." - Quoted by Maggie G

I've always had a theory about revolutions. They give an appearance of dramatic change, but it is remarkable how things stay the same, albeit wrapped in very different ideological clothing. Thus Stalin ended up re-creating essentially a Tsarist regime.

I read a poem somewhere about it being better to be a "half-revolutionary" than a revolutionary. If the wheel revolves one full turn, everytihing returns to the same place, albeit a little further down the road of time. But a half revolution means that those who were on top are now on the bottom, and vice versa!

Althusser - high Priest of the French left always did remind be of a Jesuit Theologian re-interpreting Scripture - in his case the writings of Marx. He even identified an old and a New testament in Marx's writings, characterised by an epistemological break in between.

The early Marx, according to Althusser was a humanist essentially in the Hegelian and Feuerbachian tradition. The later Marx re-theorised how people and history could be created and should be understood. The was no a priori "essence of humanity" on which economic or sociological theories could be built.

This is why the later Marx, in particular, is absolutely anathema to many Christians and all individualists who start of from the pre-supposition of a soul or a self whose interests are paramount.

The Catholic Church also subordinated the individual to the Church. The French left took over this authoritarian regime under the dis-guise of secularism. Sarkozy is essentially leading an Anglo-Saxon Protestant reformation.

[Liz]

"My son dropped out of uni in his first year and enrolled in a grande école because he felt that there's too much distraction in the university. The distractions are caused by students who believe the university is one big party house all the time."

I went to a grande école and believe me, the first two years are definately on big party (even the third year is for some students). The main difficulty is getting INTO the école - once you're there it's pretty straightforward (I'm English and graduated in the top 5% of the year).

The strikes are definately annoying - I don't know anyone who supports them. Had to get a lift in with a colleague today (after walking miles to get to her car) and all day RATP has been posting different info on their web - one hour the RER A is 1 train in 2, the next hour it's "non assuré". I won't be trusting public transport for the rest of the week but I will be cursing them! Why don't strikers try to punish the people in power instead of the ordinary people? Can't see Sarko being bothered by the lack of RER A (which has to be the line with the dirtiest trains - don't you think?)

AS for the students striking they really have no idea.

[John]

If you're looking for the Paris equivalent of London's blitz spirit, I'd suggest Paris 1914-1918. Paris and the 4.5 million Parisians and banlieusards of the time were for 4 years on the frontline. Parisians endured food rationing, bombing by German big guns such as the Big Bertha (go to Saint-Mandé metro station and look at the plaque on the pavement just across the street from the metro station commemorating people who died in a German bombing in 1918), and the constant threat of a German capture of Paris (at their furthest advance the Germans reached the hill of Champlâtreux south of Luzarches, only 26 km from Notre Dame cathedral). All the Parisians put French flags at their balconies for four years (that would seem unthinkable now), to show support for the troops on the front so close to the big city.

How did they call the Parisian spirit at the time? I don't know. Maybe "endurance", or "persévérance", or even better "abnégation". But then it's easy to forget the past and make easy jokes about French and Parisian people. How many Frenchmen did it take to defend Paris?

[Daisy]

My numbers may be wrong, but didn't Sarko just increase his own salary by about 140% as well as the Elysee budget (to 100 million euros)? Aaaah, so that's why the workers have to get less...so he can get more! Jet-setting rescue efforts costs, eh?

[His salary was raised by 172 percent, Daisy. It was a bad PR move, but justified because it came with new controls on the previously wild spending of the Elysée Palace: CB]

[The 3rd Column]

Liz,

Just want to clarify what I meant by one "big house party" -- my son dropped out before end of his 1st year in uni because of the distractions brought about by disturbances caused by endless left-leaning 'manifs' on campus that caused classes to be cancelled.

Son's satisfied with the education he's getting in his grande école and true, they party lots too but as you say, it's pretty straightforward, standards overall are much higher than in university. There's a sense of direction -- knowing where students are going.

Of course, the 7,000 plus Euro per year in tuition fees plus allowance for living expenses which is another 7 to 8,000 Euro yearly (not including lodging cost which in theory may be subsidized by State, i.e., Caisse d'Allocation logement for students) are not something that a student in a grande école hopefully won't trifle with.

(Almost cheaper to send child to uni in England and even a lot cheaper in Scotland.)

[Paul Whitfield]

Funny that English Liz, in the top 5% of a Grande Ecole, still can't spell 'definitely'!

[Bluemoon]

Le Monde this afternoon has a lovely quotation from one of the protesting student leaders: "Let's block the boulevard périphérique and its flow of workers so we can organise the boycott of capitalism."
That tells us all that earth is not the planet that these kids are living on. Keep up the good work

[rocket]

I just watched a nice debate on LCI and it was stated during this debate that German rail workers are also on strike but they are not striking essential city services so as not to hurt people going to work, much unlike the French. Tells you a lot about the mentality of the people.

Also the French government has top be careful not to give to much up which would nullify the effect of 40 years of "cotisations"

We shall see what happens.

[Daniel Strohl]

Rocket,

Excellent post of yours (14. Nov. 02:06 PM). I agree with all, with a small restriction :

"(They aren't even aware that the real reasons for the raise were in order that the President be accountable for his expenses.)

Rocket, in my opinion, the chiefs & "brains" of the left were well aware of the real reason. But of course, they didn't explain it to their storm troops - the latter are required for their muscles - they are not supposed to have brains ...

[Daniel Strohl]

Bluemoon,

"protesting student leaders:"

If one of the LEADERS has such a remarkable level, what level are the followers supposed to have ? And these gentlemen are students ...

[Emily W]

Grande ecole? Did'nt teach spelling there did they? French used to be keen on that and correct grammar but now they are following us and soon they will all be illiterate like the average UK student."Definatly" that's annoying! More so than an average strike by the simpletons of the left.

[azloon]

very interesting video, CB

Dominique (if you're not out on the streets), it's apparent not all french support mindless demonstrators and the "sacred right to strike." as a matter of fact it appears the majority are goddam sick of it. as they should be, imo.

many students in the video obviously were cheering the police as they kicked the sorry asses of the bloquers 'up oneside and down the other.' dogs of petain, huh?

now, if they would only put the leaders of the demo in jail for a month of so, these freeloaders might not be so blase about launching the next strike.

if a person can be embarrassed for an entire nation, i am for france. these strikers represent the least admirable, most selfish and self-centered interests, unmatched in any western society. they would probably even test Terry's patience for pursuit of self-interest. :)

the strikers of 1968 had a just cause. this riff-raff of today belongs in the french "hall of shame."

if ever there was clear evidence of the terminal decline of a once great nation (if you go back far enough in history), it is this nonsense. i am afraid sarko may be too little, too late.

Little Big Horn -- could you fill us in on your day, today? i thought i might have seen you in the video.

[rocket]

Daniel

"Rocket, in my opinion, the chiefs & "brains" of the left were well aware of the real reason. But of course, they didn't explain it to their storm troops - the latter are required for their muscles - they are not supposed to have brains ..."

You're right! They just used it in a perverted way to mobilize the troops

[marine]

Strikes tend to make me laugh...but at the same time I have always decided to live close to my work.
The day this country won't get on strike now and then, it won't be France anymore.

But what really makes me laugh are the so predictable comments I would find on this blog about the strikes. I could not restrain myself...I had to come to see.

I remembered the student doctors went on strike recently, and won.
I don't support all the claims of strikers, but man...some guys (not the drivers) do the 3x8 hours to maintain trains, lines and safety, they work outside, days and nights, and they shouldn't get the right to retire at 55'years old? I don't understand why there should not be a different treatment according to the real "penibility" of the work.

So, Sarko complied with the demands of student doctors, but he knows that in terms of symbolic nobody will think he was being weak (even though he was).
Because that's the story behind all this fuss about special regimes, symbols. Otherwise he could have changed the so special regime of the armed force, that would have been even more fun.

[Little Big Horn]

"French strike jargon is fascinating. I'll post a little glossary in a day or two."

Here's two slogans for your glossary Charles:

In 1968: "Plus que deux catégories d'hommes: les veaux et les révolutionnaires.
En cas de mariage, ça fera toujours des réveaulutionnaires."

And today:

"Fi (ll) on serre les fesses,
On arrive à toute vitesse!"

Fleuri, isn't it?

For Times's readers neurosis about French demonstrations, here’s a relief:

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jE8jyVHycrs

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=RvnuIwISVjI

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=hrrpWh3dtQE

You’ll find great matter there for Conservatives:

for example:

"Jesus revient,
avec Jean-Pierre Raffarin"

"Cac 40 cac 40! ouais! ouais!"

"Le tiers-monde est une merde,
Ecrasons-lui la gueule!"

"Rendez-nous Alain Juppé"

"Intermittents fainéants!"

"Instituteurs profiteurs!"

"Afrique, paye ta dette!"

"L'état est avec nous,
Les pauvres taisez-vous!"

"Mitterrand! Démission!"

"Réprimez les manifestations!"

and my favorite pun on words:

"Courage Fillon!"

[Dominique]

Azloon,

I am afraid your point of view is again biased . One can consider that the striker are wrong in asking to go on with their specific retirment scheme while they still have the right to strike.

You write : "mindless demonstrators and the "sacred right to strike." as a matter of fact it appears the majority are goddam sick of it".

So what? I'm sick of many things but i learn to deal with it! You should do the same Azloon!

Eventhough i do not support the continuation of the "regimes speciaux", this kind of sentences calling people "mindless" because they disagree with you or denying the "right to strike" because you disagree on the purpose of the strike make me willing to go on strike for one reason : to piss Azloon off!!

I don't remember who said that "i will die so you can express your point of view eventhough you disagree with me" but he was right. Same with strikes : a country where strikes are not allowed is no longer a democracy.

One can discuss the legitimacy of the discontinuation of public services and the opportunity of "requisition" like they do in hospitals. But certainly not the right to strike!

[azloon]

Dominique --

i was going to ask you in my post if you valued the right to strike as much as i valued free speech. do you? would you go to war over it (if somehow some foreign power were in a postion to suspend it).

i was struck by what appeared to be the majority of students who were anti-striker (at least of the student variety). does this younger generation of french value the right to strike as highly as you?

or might the be challenging your generation's views?

[rocket]

And Dominique that's just the problem

"right to strike" because you disagree on the purpose of the strike make me willing to go on strike for one reason : to piss Azloon off!!

You would strike not to defend some deeper values but just to piss someone off.

Thank you once again for sabotaging your own value system in real time.

[Valentin]

I tried to use Vélib's this week, to go to work and back. My conclusion is that it'll ultimately prove to be a whim, a passing fashion.
The city is absolutely NOT MADE for that. Most biking tracks go along the river (east-west), and even these are difficult to use.
But if you need to go on the axis south-north, as is my case (living in the south west and working a bit north of the Opera house), the truth is, it soon turns into a heroic tragedy: the near total absence of dedicated biking tracks; the necessity of passing through one of the 3 most traffic-ladden spots of the city;
the mad motor bikers zigzagging and lightspeeding 10" from your hip;
the narrow one-way streets trippling your distance (because there's no special road facility for bicycles, so you're forced to do as cars do);
the multiple crossroads where you need to turn left right in the middle of the huge traffic (mostly made up of undisciplined, impatient and angry parisians always hurrying somewhere);
and last but not least, the differences of altitude. This is not a flat city like those in Holland.

Oh and I forgot the difficulties in finding a free "borne" to leave the bike; you end up (like you do by car) turning around looking for a parking spot.

Paris needs civil and respectful car and motor drivers first, then proper roads and crossroads to be used by bicycles. But the city was simply not conceived for this.
For such a job, Delanoe le Roi des Bobos is just not enough, we need a revolutionary mayor like London's Livingstone.

[Daniel Strohl]

Little Big Horn,

Your "youtube" links are new for me; they are interesting and tend to prove que la bêtise est la chose la mieux partagée au monde (that stupidity is equally distributed over the world).

However, if one counts the number of demonstrators in the French streets over a longer period (in order to reduce statistical errors), one will probably find that the number of leftist demonstrators is much higher than the number of rightist demonstrators.

And if one admits my postulate about the equal statistical distribution of stupidity, one arrives to an obvious conclusion L O L !

[Frank Schnittger]

Most people wouldn't argue with "the right to strike" in the private sector where workers would otherwise have little bargaining power with respect to employers particularly at times of high unemployment.

Strikes are not always about money, they can also be about arbitrary and unfair discrimination against employees, the failure to honour previous agreements etc.

However, when you are talking about key infrastructural and essential services which are effectively a monopoly or a matter of public health and safety, different rules should apply.

Where workers have job security for life and unfunded pensions afterwards, it seems reasonable to include a guarantee of service in the contract of employment.

This does require that there are external, independent and objective mechanisms for determining wage increases based on inflation, productivity or comparisons with similar workers elsewhere.

In Ireland there is a Labour Court and other mechanisms to do precisely that. It doesn’t always work, but I generally does. It should not be beyond the ingenuity of the French Government to devise an independent system of pay review, whilst at the same time curbing the right the strike in those sectors.

But I suspect it will take a major battle and a sea change of attitudes on both sides for such a major change of culture to be accomplished. Expect things to get a lot worse before they get better…

[Pierre]

Hello everybody,

It's really interesting to read your posts about today's strike and especially the comments about university lefties...

Everybody knows that the french university is surviving on its old reputation of excellence. But, apart from the "little" reforms that have been made since 68, the french universites really need a big one. Even if this law is quite courageous in some points, it lacks a whole rethinking of the institution.

I'm a student in french litterature in Lyon, I was involved in the student strikes and occupations of the campus for the CPE. Yet, I'm interested in the movement now, even if I'm not really getting involved in this one. I'm fed up with all the false exchanges and debates of pseudo-ideas between right and left wing students.

In Lyon, the Bron campus, located in the suburb of the city is occupied by the students (this campus is the "hippie campus" of Lyon). The university launched a digital vote on line, revealing that the majority wants to get free access to the campus. The poverty of ideas expressed in the comments of the webpage is amazing, as well as the whole debate around that law. What a mess !

There is not a lot to say : I feel I'm belonging to the left wing, I'm against this law and against the government, I want a better university but I want also to study now (short term thinking, maybe) and to see a real exchange of ideas where there is nothing today... Nothing to say also about the association between cheminots and students : "même combat", pfffffffff....

This was the confused point of view of a tiny french student who is both ashamed and fascinated by the situation here in Lyon...

[Dominique]

Azloon,

You are mixing different concepts : the right to strick (legal) and the right to block (illegal) : people are against the "right to block" universities. I don't think that "a new generation" is against the right to strike. I never heard that even from those who complain.

[Pierre Mudry]

Dominique: "I don't think that "a new generation" is against the right to strike. I never heard that even from those who complain."

I belong to this new generation myself and civil servants shouldn't be allowed to strike whenever they want as they are doing now. In fact, i'm not far to think that, since they can't be fired, they shouldn't be able to strike at all.

[JuanE]

English is not my first language, so I apologise if this comment is not too punchy.

I guess no matter how altruist we pretend to be or want to be, we are mostly selfish. And a country is made up of numerous groups of people often having opposite interests.

In my view, part of the government's role is to act as a referee, balancing power. One example could be the work place. If you have no unions, and no worker protection, companies will tend to abuse workers in the name of the bottom line. On the other hand giving unions too much power, they will abuse the companies and push them to their limits (witness UAW and GM and F).

So I guess the workers' reaction is unsurprising, but I wonder if they question the validity of their claims. I think they are not concerned about the fairness or validity of their rights. It feels more like they've got them, they're not giving them back. Perhaps all of us in the same situation would react similarly.

But not everyone is on the same boat. Most people recognize something needs to be done in France, and a majority voted for a change- And that change means sacrifices to be made, except it feels others should do the sacrificing. And perhaps thats why the strikes have little support. I mean if you were at an office where everyone workds until 6 and you leave at 4, wouldnt you feel a bit embarrased??

[Sigognac]

Funny that many people complain about the obtuse leftist only to make equally obtuse and dogmatic statements.
Anyway, even if the "régimes spéciaux" disappear, it will take about 20 years to come into effect, so why all this fuss?
A more radical solution would be to follow the British example, raise the income tax, lower labour charges, encourage personnal pensions of various shapes and forms. Would be rather unpopular, would it not?
As for the Universities, the main problem is that they are misused. A university is somewhere where you read science, or arts or whatever, not a professional school. Therefore the problem is not so much to "professionalise" the Unis, but to avoid taking in thousands of students who do not want to be there in the first place, and who know they are into a dead end.

[Mathieu Q.]

Little Big Horn,
Daniel Strohl,

Just for the sake of truth, the videos you are referring to are actually fake right-wing demonstrations organized by left-wing actors and artists (check http://www.manifdedroite.com/).

[Liz]

"Grande ecole? Did'nt teach spelling there did they? French used to be keen on that and correct grammar but now they are following us and soon they will all be illiterate like the average UK student."

Ok, apart from the fact that you're moaning about my one typing mistake with another typing mistake of your own - no they don't teach grammar at a Grande Ecole and anyway it's all IN FRENCH! So yes, when I stop using any English for three whole years I do tend to make a couple of little mistakes. My sincere apologies....

[Olivier]

Poor France where we are living in !

I suggest that everybody should go to the demonstration for freedom and against the blockings.

It will be next Sunday in Paris, Place de la République at 3 p.m. More details on www.liberte-cherie.com

[Frank Schnittger]

Liz - no apology required. People who have nothing better to do than complain about other contributor's typos generally have very little worthwhile to say for themselves...

[Johnny Foreigner]

People do not work enough or they'd go shopping more. And when you do work, the French government takes the money and gives it to the railway workers who have decided not to work. And they don't go shopping because they're too busy reading books about how bad people are with money. And all the strikes they did, could have been spent going shopping and making more money. And people are free to say what they want but not at work because they should be working. And people are free to say what they want especially in shops and where they can say "how much please?" or "no, it's too expensive". And people should be free to work 58 hours a day, even if they don't want to.

Ppphhfffff... Back to work... Love it...

[Daniel Strohl]

Mathieu Q,

Thanks for your link - however, it doesn't work.

Generally speaking, I do not rely to much on Internet "information" - it is quite easy to forge fake information, left or right.

However, if I look at demonstrations and listen to the slogans, I am able to make my own judgment regarding the level of the slogans. What I said half jokingly to Little Big Horn remains of course valid ...

[Daniel Strohl]

Pierre Mudry,

"In fact, i'm not far to think that, since they can't be fired, they shouldn't be able to strike at all".

I agree with you. And if they are not happy with their job, obviously they are free to resign and look for another more enlightening and better paying job.

PS : there is also a railway strike in Germany - it started yesterday, but it was looming since weeks. It is a small union (GDL ?) where many of the engine drivers are grouped which is making the fuss; some weeks ago, they asked for a THIRTY THREE PERCENT pay raise - I don't know what they are asking for right now.

If I believe the "spiegel on line", the civil servant engine drivers ("Beamtete Lokführer" in German) DO NOT have the legal right to strike. But they have also many colleagues who are not civil servants and who therefore have the right to strike.

Through various legal actions, the German railway managed to delay the pending strikes up to now.

[Mathieu Q.]

Daniel Strohl,

That's because the parenthesis was caught at the end of my link ;)

http://www.manifdedroite.com

[John Gregory Flinn]

There was French union chief on BBC radio 4 yesterday (I did'nt catch his name) saying in good english that 'they, the unions wanted to get back to work quickly because they knew the public were against them' - or something to that effect.

Was it Jean-Christophe Le Duigou, the CGT's chief negotiator, or who else might it have been?

[Dominique]

John G Flinn,

This is exactly what all unions always say : "we want to go back to work but the government forces us to strike". Nothing new. Same old french rethoric between those who decide and those who strike : it's always the other's fault. And as a matter of fact, it is. Both are always right. Disagreement is part of life in a democratic country.

Pierre Mudry :

"I belong to this new generation myself and civil servants shouldn't be allowed to strike whenever they want as they are doing now. In fact, i'm not far to think that, since they can't be fired, they shouldn't be able to strike at all."

Well, you must feel lonely. You are probably thinking of the status of civil servants in hospitals and some other strategic services like police, army etc...They can go on strike and can be "requisitionnés" by the state. ...for example, nurses on strike still work! But they still have the right to strike and claim that they are on strike eventhough they work. Forbiddening people from striking would be anticonstitutional and ...probably impossible anyway. Remember we are in France...

[ms marple]

Le manif de droite was the subject of Daniel Mermet's programme "Là-bas si j'y suis" this afternoon - it was hilarious. I can't get Mathieu's link any further than the title page to the blog or film, but for anyone who cares to persevere, it's very funny.

[Pierre Mudry]

Dom, no i'm not lonely, more and more people feel like i do. They're sick of being taken hostages each time those selfish and lazy fonctionaires feel unhappy about something. These guys have lots of advantages compared to a corporate sector worker, the biggest being the fact that they can't be fired. In exchange for those advantages, the level of service must be excellent, and those strikes are not exactly the way to achieve and excellent level of service. Therefore, i'm for the supression of the right to strike to all civil servants.it's pretty simple in fact.The only moment were Civil servant would be able to strike would be during the renogociation of their salaries and working condition with their respective administration. Something that would take place every 2 or 3 years.

It's what is done in Canada, and i think it's pretty effective.

[Dominique]

Pierre,

Using the word "hostage" for strikes is as stupid as using "rafle" for illegal immigrants arrests.

When words loose their meaning, discussion becomes impossible.

train service effective in canada? i did not know....

[Daniel Strohl]

Dominique,

May be your comparison hostage/rafle is valid.

Therefore, I would use another word i.e "chantage" (blackmail). This blackmail has worked since decades in the case of our SNCF. And when one takes the firm decision to refuse to give up to blackmail, usually blackmail does not work well anymore. I hope that this time, we will see a modern remake of "l'arroseur arrosé".

And we are all (or at least most of us) fed up with the inter-union wars and rivalries at the SNCF which you and me and many others as well have to finance with our taxes.

PS : the right to strike is necessary (and guaranteed by the constitution). If there are dishonest union members, there are also dishonest employers. But it is difficult to say that the state, as employer at the SNCF, is "dishonest".

[Maggie G]

"train service effective in canada? i did not know..."

Dominique,

He was talking about civil servants. There aren't that many trains in Canada. For passenger trains, you've got two a day -- the east-bound and the west-bound. Once you get on, you're generally on for three to five days.

I heard a guy on the radio going on about the word "hostage". He read out of a dictionary all the meanings of hostage and declared that it didn't apply to strikes. But I think it does. I think they need to up-date the dictionary, that's all.

Pierre Mudry,

Tell us more about Canada whenever you can. I like hearing what the French think about the Canadian way of doing things. We don't hear much about Canada over here.

[stephen Bull]

In the Languedoc 2% of the students have voted for blockades and so 1300 of them are depriving 64,000 of their rights to pursue their courses.
The strikers maintain that the new law for the universities signals the withdrawal of the state from higher education , an increase in fees and admission by selection. These claims are just simply false. That they are believed at all just shows the depth of mistrust which permeates French society. (see "La Société de Défiance" by Alcan and Cahuc referenced by CB recently)

[stephen Bull]

In the Languedoc 2% of the students have voted for blockades and so 1300 of them are depriving 64,000 of their rights to pursue their courses.
The strikers maintain that the new law for the universities signals the withdrawal of the state from higher education , an increase in fees and admission by selection. These claims are just simply false. That they are believed at all just shows the depth of mistrust which permeates French society. (see "La Société de Défiance" by Alcan and Cahuc referenced by CB recently)

[Dominique]

Maggie G,

What you just daid can be shortened in an amazing :

"I disagree with the definition of the word in the dictionnary, so the dictionnary is wrong".

Please note that your opinion does not define reality. The very purpose of dictionnary is to tell what is the meaning of words so we can all use them. I am afraid i'll keep the dictionary definition and forget about yours as yours is well known only in...your mind

[Maggie G]

"I disagree with the definition of the word in the dictionnary, so the dictionnary is wrong". (Dominique's interpretation of what Maggie said.)

Dominique: I don't disagree with the definition in the dictionary at all.

"1.A person given or held as a pledge until specified conditions are met, as in a war
2. The state of any person so treated
3. A pledge or security

They could just add on a fourth one:
4. Innocent people held in intolerable circumstances until specified conditions are met, as in a strike

(or whatever -- I'm not a professional dictionary writer)

The original meaning was a soldier willingly given by one army to its enemy as a pledge, but when a bankrobber grabs a bystander to protect himself from being shot by the police, that's considered a hostage (isn't it?) even though it has nothing to do with a pledge anymore, and strike victims are the same.

It seems to me that it's reasonable to use 'hostage' this new way. Or is there a better word?

If there was a better word, they would use it, wouldn't they?

Daniel suggested "blackmail". Maybe the strikers are blackmailing the government, but I don't think they're blackmailing the public.

Language changes all the time, and words take on new meanings. A "crane" used to be just a wading bird with long legs; now it's a big construction tool too.

I never said the dictionary was wrong. I said the definition maybe needs to be up-dated, or expanded.

Millions of people, including newspaper editors, seem to feel that the word "hostage" describes how the public are being treated during these strikes. So maybe it's time to make it "official" by adding it to the list in the dictionary.

[Dominique]

Maggie,

"Millions of people, including newspaper editors, seem to feel that the word "hostage" describes how the public are being treated during these strikes. So maybe it's time to make it "official" by adding it to the list in the dictionary"

Newspaper editors do not make millions.

More, you could also write

"Millions of people, including newspaper editors, seem to feel that the word "slaves" describes how the public are being treated by capitalism. So maybe it's time to make it "official" by adding it to the list of meanings of the word "capitalism" in the dictionary"

or

"Millions of people, including newspaper editors, seem to feel that the word "evil" describes Iran and North Korea. So maybe it's time to make it "official" by adding the two countries to the list of meanings of the word "evil" in the dictionary"

or

"Millions of people, including newspaper editors, seem to feel that the word "dictator of the world" describes how GW Bush is behaving. So maybe it's time to make it "official" by adding his name to the list of examples for the word "dictator" in the dictionary"

That would'nt make sens. Meaning of words are not defined by opinion. Same for your definition of an "hostage".

"Hostages" are held in custody against their will. Some are threatened of being killed. No train driver take "hostages", neither do they held people in custody threatening them with a gun. You are redefining words in order to "demonize" the strikers. You are doing the very same thing some leftist do With Sarko when they call him a fascist, or claim that Sarko = Lepen.

This is low politics, dishonnest behavior at it's best!

[Daniel Strohl]

Maggie G,

"Maybe the strikers are blackmailing the government, but I don't think they're blackmailing the public".

No doubt they are primarily blackmailing the government, but indirectly also the ordinary citizens, who have elected the parliament and the president - the latter designating the government, whose task is to enforce the laws voted by the parliament.

It is blackmail since their argument goes as follows : if you don't agree with what we want, we will strike as long as necessary to curb your will (the will of the government). Since the government is (indirectly) elected, the strikers (who CAN NOT BE FIRED) are confident that the government will give in, in order not to lose the future votes of the citizens severely annoyed by the strikes effects on their ordinary life and the related problems occuring (family, lost time, lost money and possibly lost jobs as well).

If this is not (indirect) blackmail, it is may be something else. But I do not know a relevant qualifying word replacing blackmail - of course, "hostage" may be used, but usually strikers do not retain travellers by force inside the trains - instead, they are "kept" outside, free to walk (or to bicycle) ...

PS : Maggie, I have not written the above with the aim to contradict you, bien au contraire. It is just another way to express things which have to be said (and put in writing).

Maggie, even if you are not a professional dictionary writer, you could be ...

BTW, "crane" is also used in French (grue) in the same meaning as in English. But "grue" has also another sense in French; however, the latter goes beyond the scope of this (august) blog ... LOL

Frank said:

"The early Marx, according to Althusser was a humanist essentially in the Hegelian and Feuerbachian tradition. The later Marx re-theorised how people and history could be created and should be understood."

Both the early and the later and even the middle Marx has been completely discredited after the lovely mark it left on the 20th century. Let's leave Marx where he died, the 19th century.

[Pierre Mudry]

i was speaking figuratively Dominique, i thought you would have saw that.

[Lily]

"Meaning of words are not defined by opinion." (Dominique)

Dominique,

I haven't followed this thread in its entirety but I agree with Maggie on this. The meaning of words is defined by the dictionary but (except latin and ancient greek) language is ALIVE.

If a certain definition is widely accepted (I don't know how widely, what the exact criteria are), it will be included in the dictionary.

The same goes for pronunciation. If a phonème is pronounced more and more in a way as not described in the dictionary (e.g. the ending "-ation"), the original pronunciation will be considered archaic and the new one will enter the dictionary.

We should ask the Académie Française for a review on "hostage".

[Dominique]

Pierre Murdy,

This is what people always do in France and why dialog is so violent : speaking figuratively is a way of denying the other's reality. Debates therefore often finishes in "injonctions et insultes" for the other side.

[Lily]

Re: Dictionary

Dominique,

Here's the link to the Académie Française:

http://www.academie-francaise.fr/dictionnaire/index.html

I've copy-pasted the relevant text:

"Une douzaine de collaborateurs, tous universitaires, se consacrent à la préparation. Il s’agit, en particulier, de repérer les mots qui ne figuraient pas dans la précédente édition et qu’il convient d’admettre, de préparer pour ces mots des définitions qui tiennent compte des usages et des codes propres au dictionnaire de l’Académie française, de modifier et compléter les définitions que l’évolution des savoirs et l’usage ont rendues caduques."

"L’édition de 1935 comptait environ 35.000 mots. La neuvième édition comportera plus de 15.000 mots nouveaux."

Vive la langue vivante!

[Maggie G]

Dominique,

Well, I get your point, though not all your examples are good, since "George Bush" and "North Korea" would not be defined in a dictionary.

You are taking the use of the word 'hostage' as being politically inspired ("You are redefining words in order to "demonize" the strikers." ) while I was just thinking of it as a neutral word that people started using because a word was needed to describe what was going on.

Personally, I don't find that the word 'hostage' is being used for propaganda purposes, but I suppose you could be right.

I definitely think a word is NEEDED to describe the situation the public finds itself in.

[Valentin]

"Vive la langue vivante"

Oui, mais pas n'importe comment. Yes, on condition that rules and a certain level be preserved. Otherwise we end up with the "verlan" taking up half the dictionary in 20 years from now.

[Valentin]

"'Hostages' are held in custody against their will. .. No train driver take 'hostages'"

Oh yes, Dominique, they do take hostages.
There are cases where a few trains worked in the morning, so people went to work, then in the afternoon and evening there was NO train at all, so they could not return home.
Their freedom of movement was severely restrained, with serious consequences (children not taken home from school and left on their own etc).
If this is not "taking hostages" in the literal meaning, I don't know what else could be.

And that was exactly the intention: not to make a point, or defend "workers rights", but precisely to inflict real, serious, physical and moral pain on other people in order to keep their privileges.

And we cannot even talk about "cheminots". There were about 30% on strike, just like many universities are totally blocked by 10-15% radicalized students.

It is the very opposite of democracy:
a small far-left minority imposing their rule by FORCE on the hardworking but alas silent majority.
That's why this outrageous abuse of the right to strike should be prohibited by law.

[Dominique]

Lily,

Thanks for the link. Below the definition of the word "hotage" by the academie you like so much :

(1)OTAGE n. m. XIe siècle, dans l’expression prendre en ostage, « héberger ». Dérivé d’hôte.
1. Personne qu’une armée, un gouvernement livre à la partie adverse ou détient, en garantie de l’exécution d’un traité, d’une promesse, etc. Les fils du roi François Ier furent livrés en otages. Servir d’otage. Des otages fusillés par l’occupant en représailles après un attentat. 2. Personne, choisie en général arbitrairement, que des individus détiennent de force et menacent de tuer, pour contraindre une collectivité, un État à céder à leurs exigences. Le juge d’instruction fut pris en otage par le prévenu. Des terroristes ont pris en otages les passagers de l’avion. Par affaibl. Des usagers pris en otages par les grévistes.
Titre célèbre : L’Otage, de Paul Claudel (1911).

So, i'm wrong obviously, the academie already changed the definition of an hotage :

"par affaiblissement : Des usagers pris en otages par les grévistes "

The meaning is therefore changed and weakened; the word is no longer only describing privation of someone's freedom by someone threatening him.

So we can use "hotage" to describe transportation users when train are on strike.

So let's do it

But then, what is the point doing it? what is the point heralding a definition as a slogan? we all know.

What is the point claiming every morning on the radio that a duck is a duck?

[Dominique]

Maggie,

"I definitely think a word is NEEDED to describe the situation the public finds itself in."

There is plenty of words available : embetés, génés, empéchés de, agacés, ennuyés, emmerdés, fatigués, exaspérés, forcés, bloqués etc...

maintenant il y a "hotage" : mais le mot ayant perdu son sens, il ne décrit plus grand chose. Nous sommes tous des hotages. Et bien soit. Je pensais que c'était plus pénible...

As long as the definition of the word "hostage" is "being stopped from doing what i want", then we are all hostages...

I could even claim that i am an hostage of the australian goverment if they don't provide me with a visa! I am an hostage of the french police because they don't let me drive as fast as i want..

Non sens

[Lily]

"Below the definition of the word "hotage" by the academie you like so much" (Dominique)

Dominique,

Do I LIKE that academy?? I will have to think about it.

[Maggie G]

"There is plenty of words available [to describe the situation the public finds itself in]: embetés, génés, empéchés de, agacés, ennuyés, emmerdés, fatigués, exaspérés, forcés, bloqués etc...
maintenant il y a "hotage" : mais le mot ayant perdu son sens, il ne décrit plus grand chose" (Dominique)

Dominique,

All those words may describe how the public FEELS about the strike, but they don't describe the SITUATION -- how the public is being USED in the strike.

The unions don't have a disagreement with the public -- they have a disagreement with the government. But in order to fight the government, they are using tactics that have a huge impact on the public and seriously interfer with people's freedom to live normally.

So they are using the public like hostages. I am glad to see that the Academie Français has accepted this expanded meaning of the word hostage. The only other word I can think of would be "bargaining chips" -- they are using the public as bargaining chips. But I don't think this describes the situation as accurately as 'hostage' does.

[Dominique]

Maggie G,

You are discovering hot water : what you describe is the very purpose of strikes : having an impact, as strong as possible.