A Paris policeman and his bordello collection

 

Here's one of those only-in-Paris stories. I've just been chatting to a former police officer who is selling his lifelong collection of art and objects from the world of Paris prostitution. 

The 355 lots, ranging from oil paintings and brothel furniture to erotic walking sticks and pornography, are being auctioned today at Drouot, the central art house. To set the mood, the sale room has been decked out in the red velvet of the old maisons closes, the bordels that were legal until 1946. And the auctioneers are dressing up like old-style maquereaux, or pimps.

There is of course nothing romantic or charming about prostitution, but les filles de joie and the seedy side of the Paris night were, and still are, part of the city's lore. That the Drouot collection should be put together by a flic (cop), seems fitting, when you think of all the old movies and novels about the milieu around Pigalle with their petits voyous and good time girls. (La Vie en Rose, the new Edith Piaf biopic, gives a fair idea).

Jean Feixas, a retired Commissaire Divisionnaire, Chief Superintendent in British terms, told me that he became fascinated by the netherworld of prostitution when he served as a young Paris detective.

"I was drawn to collecting by la femme. Woman in all her moral and social sense," Feixas said.

The former officer, who left the force in the late 1980s, seems nostalgic for the gentler days when the cops and underworld characters haunted the same bars and cafes.

"Prostitution is in reality a sordid business, but it was made poetic by the way that it was treated by artists and writers and the cinema," Feixas said as he showed us around the pre-sale exhibition.

He regrets having nothing by Toulouse Lautrec, the artist who celebrated the filles of Victorian Paris. He has plenty from the what he calls the golden age of the inter-war period, when films and singers celebrated the street girls of Pigalle. "Of course all that stuff about tarts with hearts and pimps with a sense of honour was make-believe, nonsense," said Feixas. The very wholesome Maurice Chevalier even played un mac, he recalled. "It's seems incredible today. You could not imagine that now."

The biggest example of such make-believe is on sale: a poster of Irma La Douce, the 1963 Billy Wilder film starring Shirley MacLaine as a Paris prostitute and Jack Lemon as an ex Paris policeman who falls in love with her.

There is a parallel in Feixas' life: his friendship with Faty La Fouetteuse (Faty the Whip Lady), a ferocious dominatrix of the 1970s whose "dungeon" in the Halles district was frequented by well-off clients.

"Faty was a professional whipper. She did not have sex with her clients," said  Feixas. On sale are eight paintings and drawings by "Bernard", a client, showing Faty performing various painful-looking acts upon him. "Bernard used to slide the art under her door in an envelope with a bank note and leave quickly. She never really did these things to him. It was the idea that excited him," said the former commissaire. "I sometimes watched him leaving his picture."  [That's a Bernard portrait of Faty on the left of Feixas in top picture]

Feixas, who published "The Memoirs of a Whip Lady" with his friend in 1991, said that there had never been a conflict in his role as police officer and his fascination with le plus vieux métier du monde. He was no longer a detective at the time of Faty, he said. After a decade years in the Paris criminal police, he moved to the gambling and gaming division -- frequented by a much meaner crowd than prostitution, he said. He worked in the DST, the state security service then ended his career in the Interior Ministry.

"I never acquired any object from my professional life that I used for this collection," he said. "It has come through acquaintance and friendship."

You can see the collection on the auction site [adults only]. There is serious art and poignant photograph collections, as well as brothel kitsch and sad naive paintings. There is also a range of jetons, the metal tokens that clients used to pay les filles. "The tokens were like the beads they use in the Club Med resorts," Feixas explained. "It was to avoid cash having to change hands."

Comments

[elemjay]

So why is he selling his collection? [Because he says he wants to 'move on'. He's writing books. CB]

[azloon]

is there some big market for bordello art in france?

since he didn't score a toulouse lautrec, is there any real value to this collection.

sotheby's stock fell thru the floor yesterday when they couldn't peddle some big names in modern french art. bodes ill for someone trying to sell the amateur artwork of pigalle.

if you follow up on this, let us know what he gets for this.

i am thinking this auction may be a real 'yawner.'

p.s. Vee, you'll certainly be at the auction, non? i'd be interested in your comments about the aesthetics of prostitution.

[Maggie G]

Azloon,

Don't you ever sleep? According to my calculations, you wrote that at 4:30 in the morning.

Are you running a bordello, or what?

[Robert Marchenoir]

I protest. This is Google-tweaking, pure and simple.

[Dominique]

Edith Piaf
Elle fréquentait la rue Pigalle

Paroles: Raymond Asso. Musique: L.Maitrier 1939

Ell' fréquentait la rue Pigalle.
Ell' sentait l'vice à bon marché.
Elle était tout' noire de péchés
Avec un pauvr' visage tout pâle.
Pourtant, y avait dans l'fond d'ses yeux
Comm' quequ' chos' de miraculeux
Qui semblait mettre un peu d'ciel bleu
Dans celui tout sale de Pigalle.

Il lui avait dit : "Vous êt's belle."
Et d'habitud', dans c'quartier-là,
On dit jamais les chos's comm' ça
Aux fill's qui font l'mêm' métier qu'elle
Et comme ell' voulait s'confesser,
Il la couvrait tout' de baisers,
En lui disant : "Laiss' ton passé,
Moi, j'vois qu'un' chos', c'est qu' tu es belle."

Y a des imag's qui vous tracassent
Et, quand ell' sortait avec lui,
Depuis Barbès jusqu'à Clichy
Son passé lui f'sait la grimace
Et sur les trottoirs plein d'souv'nirs,
Ell' voyait son amour s'flétrir,
Alors, ell' lui d'manda d'partir,
Et il l'emm'na vers Montparnasse.

Ell' croyait r'commencer sa vie,
Mais c'est lui qui s'mit à changer.
Il la r'gardait tout étonné,
Disant : "J'te croyais plus jolie,
Ici, le jour t'éclair' de trop,
On voit tes vic's à fleur de peau.
Vaudrait p't'êtr' mieux qu' tu r'tourn's là-haut
Et qu'on reprenn' chacun sa vie."

Elle est r'tourné' dans son Pigalle.
Y a plus personn' pour la r'pêcher.
Elle a r'trouvée tous ses péchés,
Ses coins d'ombre et ses trottoirs sales
Mais quand ell' voit des amoureux
Qui r'mont'nt la rue d'un air joyeux,
Y a des larm's dans ses grands yeux bleus
Qui coul'nt le long d'ses jou's tout's pâles.

[Valentin]

I will certainly give my educated opinion, after mature reflexion. It will be erudite, well-documented, rock-solid argumented, and it will not fail to touch the importance of the viewpoint and context while passing judgement upon such particular form of art.

I will then leave to Azloon the honour of a conclusory statement in his personal manner. He'll thus have thus an opportunity to speak about the sordid side to it, the diseases, the misery and even the decadence. I am sure he will aquit himself well of his task.

[azloon]

[you wrote that at 4:30 in the morning.

Are you running a bordello, or what?] Maggie

i was AT a local bordello. fortunately, i had taken my laptop with me and the place had wi-fi.

only a cannuck would've noticed.

:)

[rocket]

This thread may beat the all time low of the vacation thread.

ZZZZzzzzzzzz

[rocket]

Hi All

A little off subject but a good read on the housing problems in the US market at the moment and an insight for our French friends into the mechanism of the American economy and the risks of risk taking.

http://tinyurl.com/yo8g44

[ms marple]

rocket's "ZZZZzzzzzz" post just shows - he isn't interested in this subject, so instead of leaving it to those who might have something to say, he steers the blog to his own field of interest.
This said, the only comment I can think of to make is that the recent film on Piaf came out in France under the title of "la môme" and
I'd quite like to know what "google-tweaking" is.

[rocket]

Ms Marple

Apparently humor is not part of your "repertoire" or am I wrong. Please clarify.

No intention on my part to steer the blog anywhere except in response to questions that were asked by bloggers on former threads that people may not want to run through 300 comments.

[ms marple]

No indeed, Mr Rocket Sir, prithee, I am not devoid of a sense of humour and I can understand that you don't find this article and the comments on it particularly interesting.
I'm only sorry you didn't zzzzzz for longer.
There is not one comment on the header article here that points the way to the US housing market, though one of your fellow Americans, does, predictably, remark on the slump in Sotheby's shares.
In European countries, we have eccentricities, you might not understand this, but not everyone is motivated by market values. All we ask (we, who stay awake through your numerous repetitive - though fascinating - posts) is that once in a while, you allow us a tiny foray into something of simply passing interest. Like the sale of une collection insolite, like the sun shining through autumn leaves in the Cévennes, for example. Without being able to appreciate these things in your life as well as your main interests, you are poorer.
Sorry to have woken you. Shhh.

[Little Big Horn]

Great thread! It is sad to scatter a collection you've constituted throughout the years. It sounds a bit like a funeral. But it’s nice to see a supercop as an art collector.

This case is particularly interesting.

First because it emphasizes the fact that in a capitalist world, a market economy, art is just about bordello and prostitution. Anything becomes things, sex, trade and money. (Death)

Second because this is the honor of artists to have shown that everything in humanity, even the worse, the misery (Peasants by Le Nain or Millet), the old age ("old woman" by Goya), the war ("Guernica"), the sordid ("the carrion" by Baudelaire), the tragic current events ("the Raft of Medusa"), the ugly

http://www.insecula.com/Photos/00/00/09/71/ME0000097156_3.JPG

.. can pretend to beauty, eternity. Can pretend to be saved, even prostitutes who are as decent as any other women (“à part bien sûr Madame Thatcher”), and also the “nurses of public sexuality”.

And not only religious, mythological, or aristocratic themes, made for misery.

The aesthetes outraged by the fact that prostitution could become matter of art are the same uncultured Conservatives outraged by the progress of humanity, who can without any trouble (conscience) vote Sarko/Bush and listen to Beethoven music.

As usual, a good artist/indian/resistant (Guy Moquet!) is a dead one.

They can't see that beauty isn't in the theme, the rank, the museum, or the price, but only in creation, life itself, the Holy prostitute of our financial, sterile and miserable times. A time under the hammers, the pimps.

[ms marple]

Little Big Horn, nice one, nice angle. Liked it lots.

[alan morgan]

An interest in Paris de Nuit is not new . Many have profited by recording it. The photographer Brassai recorded the girls and the young toughs in the streets of Paris in the 30's.Probably the same sidewalks, the same rooms, the same cafés used by the rogues long ago, the Coquillards with whom François Villon hung out or that other shady ex-con, François - Eugène Vidocq who became the chief of Police.

[Robert Marchenoir]

Ms Marple: Google-tweaking is the art of unfairly dropping popular words in one's blog in the hope that more Google searches will lead to it.

Erotically-charged words being favorites, naturally.

That was a bit of leg-pulling on my part, really, since I doubt many lewd gentlemen would, during their pursuits nowadays, have such tame and old-fashioned words come on the top of their minds as "bordello", "la femme", "tarts" or even "prostitution", not to mention "retired police officer" -- unless they're into something very special.

Rather more like... oh well, never mind.

[azloon]

LBH--

you don't quite have the sophistication level in english thinking to 'pull off' the complex ideas you are tying to convey. there is a certain inelegance in your writing that is a bit off-putting, which i have previously described as bordering on incoherence. i will say it's not a bad attempt, but you're not quite there yet. i am not trying to be smug, only letting you know that "if you want to play with the big dogs, you have to get off of the porch." i do, though, admire your effort.

as for your underlying themes, you seem to see class struggle, exploitation, social hierarchy and malevolent capitalists everywhere you look, in everything you read, in everything you hear.

you remind me of the saying that "for a man with a hammer, the whole world is a nail."

perhaps you can hitch a ride to the auction with Valentin.

:)

[Valentin]

"that is a bit off-putting"

This is, if I may, exactly the kind of comment that can actually put off new contributors.
As long as some keep writing here as if they're "locals" and they're entitled to ask for the same proficiency from "foreigners" as on English-natives-only blogs, new people will think twice before posting.

This is an international blog. Or instead of limiting himself to comments on ideas, like most of us, Azloon thinks he can allow himself to be magnanimous with people he likes and bitchy about the English level of those he doesn't. Because he masters English on a level that, he thinks, makes him quite invulnerable.

The real problem is that he struggles to convince himself of his own openmindedness and objectivity (making lists of US faults and flaws for example), but he behaves just like stereotypes describe the egocentric, narrowminded american: the world is my playground and I decide the rules.
Funny he and Dorothy didn't get along very well, they do seem to have quite a lot in common. Or maybe that's why.

[Little Big Horn]

Ms Marple,

THANK YOU!

Mr Alooz,

Croak… .. croak… .. .. croak…. CROAK … .. croak… .. . ..CROAK !.. … croak croak .. ... .. croak... ... … .. croa .. CROOOOOOAAAAAK!!!.... .. croak...

[ms marple]

Little Big Horn: you're welcome - re Croak etc, you put it perfectly, that is the best reply there could be. I wonder if he could be turned into a prince.
Azloon: you accuse Little Big Horn of seeing class struggle, social hierarchy and so on everywhere, well perhaps that's because he's looking elsewhere than at the financial pages.
It could be said that you find an easy sum-it-all-up epithet everywhere "if you want to play with the big dogs . ." "sticks and stones . ." Some would say his efforts in English are more admirable than yours.
Valentin is quite right in his criticism of what you write too.

[azloon]

Valentin --

if you were as pompous, arrogant, and brimming with endless grandiose judgements of the world as LBH, with a level of expressive ability not quite adequate for the grand scope of your subject, i might bother to say the same thing to you.

if fact, you are not so disposed, you express your thoughts clearly and coherently and you don't try to 'take on' the entire world of evil capitalists, or any other group, without having the linguistic ability to make it coherent.

i would hope my rather mild criticism of anybody as wild-eyed and crazed as LBH appears to be on occasion wouldn't deter others from posting.

i invite you to provide examples of an LBH post that aren't diatribes against some imagined evil in western, capitalist values. somehow, he manages to turn everything, including the auctioning of whorehouse art/paraphernalia, into an an entirely predictable demonstration of his apparently inexhaustable store of venom. as i've said, he's a man with a hammer.

does this guy have a reasonable, non-volcanic, reaction to anything? or can he only motivate himself to write when he has a torch in his hand and is about to set fire to paris bourse (which may be all the time, as far as i know)?

incidentally, i AM Dorothy, i am the walrus, do do, doop de do. you aren't in kansas anymore, Vee. this is Oz.

LBH:

[CROAK !.. … croak croak .. ... .. croak... ... … .. croa .. CROOOOOOAAAAAK!!!.... .. croak...]

are you ok? should we call for help? there is hope for you, i trust you realize.

[Robert Marchenoir]

"The same uncultured Conservatives outraged by the progress of humanity, who can without any trouble (conscience) vote Sarko/Bush and listen to Beethoven music." (Little Big Horn)

Obviously Beethoven had a Marxist agenda built in his music, and we should make sure people are proper Leftists before allowing them to buy any recording of the 9th symphony.

Which reminds me: isn't it a bit reminiscent of the old bourgeois world that Wagner and Nietzsche are on shameless display in stores all over the place, ready to be sold to unsuspecting Socialists devoted to the progress of humanity?

[Valentin]

"if you were as pompous, arrogant, and brimming with endless grandiose judgements of the world as LBH"

Rocket had the same reaction directed at Dominique. I tried once to explain that for a French mind and one used to the French rhetorics (which is not bad, just culturally different), it's very difficult to express in English coherently.
Passing from French to English, I need to totally change not just phrase structure and expressions, but all the conceptual stuff behind, so big is the difference.

English is not my native language, and I realize that I relativize and tolerate much easier what could make you true anglophones go ballistic.

And there's the French left-wing logic too. Thàt can make even a saint go ballistic, such twisted and intolerable and unjust it is.

What do you want me to say. I just try not to go personal or patronizing, no matter how much I DISLIKE left and commy unions. That's all.

Can we do that group hug now ? :)

[azloon]

[I just try not to go personal or patronizing] Vee

Vee--

i admire your restraint. it must have something to with your subtle apprectiation of everything living and dead. :)

first of all, Dominique is far cry from LBH. Dee is totally coherent, so apparently has made the transition to english expression from french quite sucessfully -- unless, of course, he didn't have to, having learned english quite young or it was spoken in his home. i can understand Dee perfectly, and can appreciate the bases of all his opinions and conclusions. not so with LBH.

no need to chide LBH further. you may have noticed i changed my tune toward LBH awhile back. i sensed that he is interested in becoming as fluent as Dominique since he obviously has a lot to say (god, he has a lot to say !!)

if he is willing to take this criticism and use it to his benefit. he will be better able to accomplish his apparent purpose of arguing persuasively in english. no one learns anything if they aren't confronted with the truth. your defending him by saying that french thought is so wonderfully convoluted that we can't expect him to be understandable, is a total disservice to him, imo. it's another way of saying that he will never be able to express adequately in english his opinions, state of mind, or view of the world. c'est dommage!

i see LBH as a man 'en fuego.' he doesn't need any defenders.

[rocket]

Valentin

"Rocket had the same reaction directed at Dominique."

Even though I disagree with Dominique most of the time he is at least more moderate and reasoned in his own way than LBH who seems to be provocative Hugo Chavez style nutjob.

LBH - ¿Por qué no te callas?

Now LBH has his Ms Marple cheering section who must have her eyes riveted to her computer waiting to bring LBH praise on whatever his last whackjob comment is.

Speaking of whackjobs. Maybe those two will get together one day

Valentin

PS - "And there's the French left-wing logic too. Thàt can make even a saint go ballistic, such twisted and intolerable and unjust it is."

Amen brother!

[Little Big Horn]

Ms Marple,

A frog is always potentially a prince, waiting for a lady’s kiss to transform.

Those who don’t receive the grace to finish as prince in UK, still can receive the grace to finish cooked in a garlic sauce in France. The Channel is just a frog’s leap distance.

And both destinies are royal!

Mr Marchenoir,

I’m totally apolitical. However Beethoven’s music, particularly the third movement of the opus 31 “The Tempest” Sonata, from the first mezzo-piano chord, makes me want to install a nuclear missiles’ silo in Cuba, reopen parks for the narrow minded, and spread the freedom of the proletariat all over the world, with a cooperative’s bourbon bottle in one hand, Marx’s Capital in the other one, and a kalachnikov between my teeth. I don’t know why, it’s an uncontrollable impulse. I just can’t help it!

(A little story: Beethoven and Goethe, were walking in a park some day when the imperial family arrived face to them. Goethe moved aside to salute, Beethoven went straight into them without any consideration. How rude and bad-mannered this Beethoven was with the true authorities! He also wrote an apolitical symphony to Bonaparte, before the Revolution turned into an Empire).

But hush, music is an abstraction, painting decorative, Shakespeare fun and poetry since Homer, cosmetic. It seems that work sanctifies the politically depraved life of the great artists of humanity, naturally Conservatives since their work is conserved in formalin by our Conservatives societies (well, not Johnny Hallyday, Enrico Macias and Mireille Mathieu, who still ask for bold reforms).

Btw Hitler didn’t use to love only Wagner, Nietsche, Socialism, Bavarian pretzels, dogs or blond hair, he also venerated Swiss architecture and Henry Ford’s innocent music.

Na zdorovie, Tovaritchi.

[Valentin]

"your defending him by saying that french thought is so wonderfully convoluted"

Oh boy. I don't defend "him", but a certain distance. I don't care about his expertise in English or whatever. I can distillate his thoughts, and you too can most of the time. Why not leave it at that. Or else you could give gim English lessons by correspondence, and you'll be able from time to time to jump at each other's necks in private at your will.

And it's not that French is convoluted, although it kindof is. They need to control every possible detail and nuance. It's above all the style, much of which Lily explained some time ago, even if IMHO with a slight anglophone bias.

There once was a guy who had moved to New England. In genuine latin tradition, he had a habit of, you know, complimenting women, overtly looking at them, speaking a bit fiery, in short, being exhuberant. Honni soit qui mal y pense, though!
Well. Now he complains on French blogs about the reserve and the puritanism of the people in NE. And he says he's being euphemistic.
IT'S CULTURAL !

[Valentin]

Azloon:
first of all, Dominique is far cry from LBH.
Rocket:
Even though I disagree with Dominique most of the time

yeah, I remember well your posts, Mr. R, Lily was not there yet to complain about her screen's tidiness, but those were certainly not posts of the type "I disagree with Dominique but but he is moderate and reasoned" LOLLL but more like a seaman's when the sea is bad and his girl cheated on him!

[azloon]

V --

wr're talking about relativity here (DEE vs .LBH).

please cite a specific post where i was unduly rough on Dominique, as rough as i've been with LBH. i certainly may have been but don't recall it.

[azloon]

[I’m totally apolitical. However Beethoven’s music...makes me want to install a nuclear missiles’ silo in Cuba, reopen parks for the narrow minded, and spread the freedom of the proletariat all over the world, with a cooperative’s bourbon bottle in one hand, Marx’s Capital in the other one, and a kalachnikov between my teeth] LBH

omg, what does it take to be considered 'political' in your neck of the woods?? i shudder to think.

[azloon]

V --

it took LBH to make me appreciate Dee. :)

[azloon]

[a guy who had moved to New England. In genuine latin tradition, he had a habit of, you know, complimenting women, overtly looking at them, speaking a bit fiery, in short, being exhuberant] Vee

honi soit qui mal y pense, MY ASS!!! we're going to get your friend on major sexual harrassment charges, les differences de culture ou non. remember: "when in france, do as the french do" (an antiquated american nostrum which i grew up with). :)

incidentally, i believe i have, for the first time, caught a french speaker (i assume you SPEAK french as well as write it) in a spelling error. it's 'honi' not 'honni' as in your post. i can assure you this is likely the last time this will happen. Daniel, how am i doing?

:)

[rocket]

Valentin

Please get a life. Please Please!

Compared to LBH, Dominique is reasoned until he proves otherwise. IMHO

Secondly

And it's not that French is convoluted, although it kind of is. They need to control every possible detail and nuance.

Is it or isn't it? The French always seem to say one thing in one breath and then do an about turnaround in the next as if they feel guilty for saying it. Kinda like p'têtre ben oui, p'têtre ben non quoi! You know as well as I do that it is not to control every possible nuance but only to prove that they are always right.

Azloon

Just to fill you in on what you consider to be Valentin's patience. It's not that. The difference between Americans and French is that it's just that usually French people don't criticize in your face. They do it behind one's back.

They also don't finish sentences when they are criticizing behind ones back. They assume the listener knows what they are talking about.

By the way, they had a really cool thing through the ages in France until recently called anonymous denunciation. You could denounce someone anonymously and never be worried that your identity would be revealed.

Sakozy put a stop to that.

and I quote

http://tinyurl.com/25h2o7

Later, there was the 1984 murder of a four-year-old boy who became known as "le petit Gregoire".

Famously, the day after he was killed, his father received a corbeau letter saying: "I hope you die of grief. Money won't get your son back. This is my revenge."

No-one knows who sent the letter, and the crime remains unsolved.

And lest you think that I am talking about an isolated or purely historical phenomenon, let me quote a recent article in Le Monde, which said that every year the authorities still receive hundreds of anonymous denunciations, often of neighbours accused of dodging the taxman, or of illegally claiming benefits.

All the Best

[rocket]

Valentin

Problem with you is that in spite of all you seemingly well grounded knowledge about cultures you don't understand that WE as opposed to YOU, can use strong language to disagree with someone and still consider them better than a worse alternative.

Take a trip and turn on the tv. You don't even have to go to the US to see this lively debate, go to Spain and watch afternoon television. In France your government would probably ban this type of debate under the guise of "il ne faut pas affoler les français"

[Lily]

I'll be glad to soon see the bordello collector's photo replaced by a nice hug between Sarko and Merkel! - Or else by students who will block French train stations as of tomorrow.

[Valentin]

Rocket:
From your three long posts I understand you don't deny what I said :) C'est déjà pas mal, on avance!

As to...
"you don't understand that WE as opposed to YOU, can use strong language to disagree"

I remember watching Dallas, you know, the once famous TV series, and amazing looked the idea of a "healthy fight", you know, when cowboys as well as business men loved nothing better than solving a problem with by giving a good beating to each other, in the healthy ol' american pioneer style.

I take it your "strong language" is the equivalent of that. I imagine how frustrated you must feel by what you would call the pusillanimity and, well, what I call the civility of the French.

Related to that, as others too adviced you before, I can only repeat to you the old cry about Yankees and their home!
(I'm cunningly avoiding CB's new rules lol)

[azloon]

CB -- WHY ARE THE MOST RECENT POSTS LOCATED AT THE TOP OF THE STORY??

i don't like the new format, if that's what it is.

a reader still has to go to the bottom to post so no advantage to have recent posts on top, imo. what do others think?

if the box for new posts were also located at the top, then putting the most recent posts at the top would be less inconvenient.

VALENTIN -- i notice you didn't comment about my discovery of your FRENCH SPELLING ERROR -- so i will bring it up again and hope you acknowledge it. i am so proud of myself. :)

about the non-confrontational nature of french discourse (your assertion): this whole idea seems manipulative to me. when it serves one's purpose, one avoids responding to a direct criticism. but it doesn't stop LBH from launching VIOLENT anti-american diatribes when he feels like it. so obviously, not everyone in france suscribes to the same set of "rules of discourse" as you have presented. or perhaps, they suscribe when convenient, but gladly depart when they want to attack someone else. c'est vrai?

BTW, did i mention your not responding to my catching your spelling error. oh yeah, i guess you weren't born in france (italy?) so we can cut you some slack.

speaking of 'cutting slack', where is ms marple (who so objected to the idea that she need to have some slack cut for her)?

TODAY is DAY TWO of the "where's ms marple?" countdown (actually a "count up").

god bless her.

:)

[Valentin]

Azloon:
"BTW, did i mention your not responding to my catching your spelling error"

You did. I thought I'd let it pass. But since you insist:

"Honni soit qui mal y pense » est la devise du très prestigieux Ordre de la Jarretière et du souverain d'Angleterre lui-même"

HONNI. Deux N, s'il vous plaît, Monsieur. Merci bien.

[azloon]

Vee --

oh so typical. you've resorted to french to discuss your spelling error. to avoid saxon scrutiny?

i am gathering that you are saying 'honni' is some sort of preferred spelling, so naturally, then, you are more sophisicated and knowledgeable than i am. :)

figures.

bow--ring........!!! (i am sure you get his americanism)

[ms marple]

someone asked for me? can't think why, you're just back where you started, not interested, thanks

[Daniel Strohl]

Azloon,

Daniel, how am i doing? ("Honi soit qui mal y pense")

Not too bad. The spelling "honi" comes from ancient French, as it appears in the Order of the Garter (Ordre de la Jarretière, as mentioned by Valentin). Therefore, at the first look, "your" spelling appears to be correct.

However, in modern French, the spelling would be "honni" (verb "honnir"). Valentin used this form spontaneously, as I would also have done.

But when I saw your "innocent" question to Valentin, and knowing you as an old fox ("goupil" in ancient French), I had however a doubt. I checked first in Wikipedia (= honi), then in my big Larousse in 5 volumes - the latter quoted the sentence as follows "honni soit qui mal y pense".

Therefore, both of you are right ...
However, any "normal" Frenchman would write "honni". May be specialists of the Middle Ages would use the ancient spelling.

[Valentin]

http://www.amazon.com/Honni-soit-qui-mal-pense/dp/222108165X

http://www.mediadico.com/traduction.asp/francais-anglais/honni/2005

:P

[Valentin]

The Frog pub in Bercy Village bears the following slogan:

Honni Soit qui Peut Y Boit !

[azloon]

Daniel --

i knew i could count on you for the full explanation of 'honi' vs, 'honni.' Vee apparently thought it would be amusing to reply to me in french, thereby totally confusing me. but we must admit he is an awfully sublte and sophisicated fellow, aware of all the nuances of every subject, past and present, living or dead. :)

_____________________________

[someone asked for me? can't think why, you're just back where you started, not interested, thanks]
mzzz marple

as we terminate the mzzz marple countdown on day 2+, we welcome back to the blog, from two of days drifting in the blogosphere, the one, the only, the human hand grenade........... let's hear a loud welcome for ............ MS MARPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!! (deafening applause)

please, take a bow, mme. marple.

(p.s. i am guessing the disinterest is mutual, but you DO need to know you have achieved in a scant 48 hours an iconic status unmatched by any other blogger here, including your mentor Little Big Horn (or are you his mentor?), and that's certainly not 'chopped liver.' (ask Terry).

:)

[azloon]

Daniel --

incidentally, the miriam-webster english dictionary uses the spelling "honi."

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/honi+soit+qui+mal+y+pense

[May be specialists of the Middle Ages would use the ancient spelling] Daniel

i am not a specialist in the middle ages, but i am middle-aged (barely), so maybe it's ok for me to use the earlier spelling?

:)

[azloon]

[any "normal" Frenchman would write "honni"] Daniel

so why is Vee using it ??

[Daniel Strohl]

Azloon,

"so why is Vee using it ??"

L O L !

[ms marple]

"from two of days drifting in the blogosphere",

there IS a life outside this blog, get real Azloon, get a life, I don't need this blog just to exist

[azloon]

[there IS a life outside this blog, get real Azloon, get a life, I don't need this blog just to exist] mme marple

apparently, CB was not willing to post my one-line rejoinder to your insult.... i am happy you don't need this blog....

[ms marple]

azloon, that is perhaps because you don't know the difference between a response and an insult

now everyone knows you went in for peronal abuse yet again
is this what you want?

I will "blog" when and if I want to, it isn't an addiction, nor is it to your command
if i don't blog for a day or two, it isn't because i've taken fright
OK?