Sarkozy's lady vanishes

Five months into the reign of King Sarko I, France seems to be running out of patience with the capricious behaviour of his consort. Rumour is raging in the royal court... I mean media. 

Cécilia Sarkozy, 49, has until lately been treated as a fascinating star, a romantic heroine with enigmatic ways, the new Jackie Kennedy and so on. The tide began turning in mid-August when she stood up George W Bush and his family, leaving her husband to offer a limp excuse about a sore throat. This week, she failed to turn up with him in in Bulgaria to visit the nurses whom she extracted from prison in Libya on her mission in July.

The celebrity media are still gushing about Cécilia la rebelle, femme indépendante but Sarko's subjects are not buying this any more. When Cécilia comes up in conversation, you hear sympathy for Sarkozy and disapproval over his incontrollable first lady. Irreverence towards la patronne (the boss), as Sarkozy calls his wife, is rampant on the internet and is now creeping into the mainstream press. Libération and Le Parisien both risked trouble this week by reporting rumours of  new turbulence in the Sarkozy household.

I wrote up the Cécilia saga in today's paper (click here to read). This will annoy my French colleagues who take a dim view of what they see as our tabloid fascination with the private lives of their rulers. Le Monde's weekly magazine devoted a whole column three weeks ago to mocking us for a piece I wrote on Ségolène Royal's search for a new partner. [Le Monde's site doesn't access its magazine so I can't link to it]

Since we went to press on Cécilia, some of today's French papers have taken another swipe. "Her priorities are her amours, her break-ups and her three chldren," said France Soir. "Tender and tough, passionate and calulating, she now stirs a sort of schizophrenia in the media," it said. The newpaper gave a fine display of this by both praising her as "icon of glossy magazines and woman of power" while also noting her unhealthy influence on the president.  "Cécilia is the one who chooses, expels or showers praise on those around her husband. Promotion for some and ejection for others, the first lady takes no prisoners." That's strong stuff by the standard of France's normally deferential newspapers.

Comments

[Andy]

When (or if) the divorce papers get filed, perhaps we'll get a more realistic evaluation of what Sarko should have submitted as his tax return for evaluating his contribution to ISF.

[blue hands john]

I don't know anybody who likes her, left and right, quite the opposite actually.

And no one i know is buying the independant woman thingy, people just think she's a pain in the _ss.

The way she treats her husband is disgraceful, and most people see that, no matter how hard the media tries to spin it.

[Dominique]

"Rumour is raging in the royal court... I mean media"

So true Charles, thanks for aknowledging were you stand.

"Cecilia Antoinette go to hell and stop acting as if you had an official function!" is raging in the country... I mean the real people.

Ah ça ira ça ira ça ira....

[By media, I mean in the French media world, chunks of it owned by Sarkozy's friends -- not what is actually published or broadcast. CB]

[Hugues]

Soon people will be chanting "Free Sarkozy !" in the streets.

[alan morgan]

Cécilia Sarkozy is a femme indépendante. Most women are . So where is the problem? Perhaps male journalistes have nothing better to do than invent such comments. So perhaps these journalistes are part of the problem, perhaps they are part of the solution also. So why do they just stop dealing in fantasy and stick with the real world. Where are their facts? If there are none then leave her in peace.

[isobel]

At the beginning I thought Cecilia might be a good thing; showing that wives had better things to do than tag along with their husbands to summits or whatever.(I always felt that Cherie Blair should have made a stand and refused to go along with Tony - did he go and hold her hand when she appeared in court?)
But since Cecilia's lame excuse for missing the George Bush picnic she has just comes across as extremely bad mannered.Maybe as Hugues suggested it's an elaborate plan to get sympathy for Sarko.

[Dot KING]

From watching their rare public appearances "ensemble" I just think he irritates her - perfectly understandable. Maybe their marriage is at that stage. Maybe she just doesn't want him around her any more. It happens.
Cécilia Sarkozy has been compared to both Jackie Kennedy and Princess Diana, but there is one major difference - she isn't liked - they were.
I can't really say I'm interested in the private lives of "les people", but we are getting such a "gavage" of the Sarkozy couple.
On the other hand her influences on political choices is worrying.

[Valerie]

For a woman who has always been attracted by fame and power or wealth in her choice of spouses and lovers, she has an odd way of paying them back for what they provide her with.

Not going to Bulgaria was downright stupid. Not going with her husband to be with the Bushes in their summer home was downright stupid.

Passive-agressive behavior when she was just someone's wife was one thing. Now that she is the prez's wife...? It's not acceptable. She's a spoiled baby and needs to grow up.

[Dominique]

I fully agree with Valerie. "Passive-agressive behavior" is what describes her the best!

Comme on dit en français, elle est attirée par ce qui brille. Une fois qu'elle l'a, elle feint de le mépriser.

On appelle cela en terme médical l'hystérie, ou plus vulgairement, être une vilaine allumeuse!

Bref, elle nous saoule! Qu'elle parte à NewYork avec son publicitaire...

[concedo nulli]

According to my lights, Cecilia is a shy woman and behaves accordingly. Why is shyness loathed? She feels weak and chooses to disappear when she doesn't know how to behave, I approve of her for that. She is neither the long-suffering wife Jackie was, nor the arch-manipulator Diana was. I love her as a feminist should.( of course, I am a woman)

[Valentin]

lol Dominique & Co, and to think you will have to bear with the Sarkozys 5 more years... what do I say, 10 !
Now you see how some of us felt about Mitterrand, his friends, his mistresses, his absolutist tendencies... Bref, get ready to be saouled, and for a long time (the thing is called democracy btw: once people have chosen, we respect that, even if it turns our stomach upside down; we don't go nag nag nag every God given minute; there can be dignity in defeat too !)

Can we return to the superb victory of France over New Zealand, last night at Cardiff?
Were you out on the streets Dominique? Has anybody got THAT PICTURE of Sandrine? :)

[terry]

Will Sego's new partner be an extremely wealthy capitalist? Or will she be with somone from the working class that she claims to love so much. HMmmm

[Adrienhb]

Is it still possible to read your article on Ségo?
Thanks,

Cécilia... when will she understand she has some duties...
[The Ségo article seems to have gone from the online archive. I'll try to dig it up. CB]

[Valentin]

"Cécilia... when will she understand she has some duties..."

...like what, to play the presidential doll and decoration object for longer meetings? Well trouble is she has a mind and value of her own. I doubt we'll ever see her playing the little wifey and occupying herself with charities, or ecology, or entertaining other wives while the guys smoke cigars and play the big world leaders.

[azloon]

"ceci vanishes"

a greatful nation's prayers are answered

[Daniel Strohl]

Valentin,

There is an interesting article on Sarkozy written by an anglophone (but not an Anglo-Saxon) in the Times of India (I discovered it thanks to Comment Central of our beloved and august The Times of London) : "Too bad we can't have a leader like Sarkozy".

Mr. Shashi Taroor demonstrates herein that it is possible to write excellent articles about Sarkozy (or anybody else) without having to use personal family life details.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Shashi_Tharoor_We_cant_have_leader_like_Sarkozy/articleshow/2415152.cms

[John Gregory Flinn]

She's not (like) Caesar's wife then?

She seems to resemble Cherie Blair -but without the 'career'.
Cécilia's gaffes are different, maybe more insidious in that they appear to impact directly on the Presidency. Mrs Blair's indiscretions are/were silly and immature.

So, if Mrs Sarkozy is as influential as is reported it could be more serious, and provide the President's enemies with the means to weaken him.
I don't know which part of the political spectrum 'France Soir' inhabits but they seem to have such a danger in mind.

[azloon]

ceci vanishes: part 2

a great, grateful nation's prayers, i should have said

....and a worldwide collective sigh of relief.

there is is an old saw about relationships which i've always liked (but seldom observed): never lie down with someone crazier than yourself. in sarko's case, such folks are hard to find, but he seems to have managed it in ceci's case.

[Daniel Strohl]

John Gregory Flinn,

"I don't know which part of the political spectrum 'France Soir' inhabits"

May be not the intelligentsia - but on the other hand, we have been governed by our self-promoted "intelligentsia" (left and right with the same diplomas and therefore coming out of the same mould) since (too) many years and we will have to pay a heavy price for it.

Meanwhile, all available means will be used to try to weaken the President - he is not an offspring of the "classical intelligentsia" and he does not quite speak the same language, even if he understands it perfectly ...

[Sandrine]

"..like what, to play the presidential doll and decoration object for longer meetings?"

Valentin, whatever you think of Sarko or Cecilia, you have to admit that a first Lady has some duties.

For example, when she said that she would attend the lunch with the Bush family, maybe they made some special arrangements (like maybe a gift from Bush's wife or a meeting just the two of them to share ideas or anything else ?). My point is, that's the way it has been FOR EVER. Wives meet and do some stuff together, if Cecilia doesn't agree, then she should say so loudly and stop embarrassing her husband AND her country by changing her mind at the last minute.

When a Chief of state goes abroad, the officials of the other country always prepare something for the rest of his family while he's busy. Everybody does that, why does she wanna be different ? She doesn't like that, fair enough, God knows it can be tiring, but she has to DEAL WITH IT. She's not just married to some guy, she's married to the President of France !

She should definitely stop acting like a spoiled "snobinarde" ! (Je sais, c'est un pléonasme... lol)

[Valentin]

"Wives meet and do some stuff together"

And knight together, while talking about the kids' latest cold? :)

Anyway Sandrine, from this I infer you're the classical kind of wife. You don't do much honour to the Left '68arde though, who fought so hard for women's rights as independent, autonomous beings :)

[Dot KING]

Valentin - "knight together" - have we truly gone back to a monarchy then? Where notables can be knighted by Queen Cécilia in her spare time? - I think you mean "knit" together (tricoter, surely) - like the women sans-culottes at the foot of the guillotine in Dickens' "Tale of Two Cities" - nice one, like it lots. Imagining Cécilia Sarkozy knitting with Laura Bush is a bit like imagining Arnold Schwarzeneger doing a spot of hoovering! Wow!

[Sandrine]

"And knight together, while talking about the kids' latest cold? :)"

Thanks Dot King, I actually didn't understand the sentence. (lol, Dot King is pitiless ;o)

No Valentin, please don't put words in my mouth, the women don't necessarily talk about their kids. ;o)

But they meet together, that's the way it is. And believe it or not, Cecilia is not the President or a special "collaborateur", no, she's the President's wife, so her place is with the other Presidents' wives. Whether she likes it or not ! And whether YOU like it or not dear !

[Valentin]

Why thank you Lady Dot,
yes indeed,
I meant knit :)

[Valentin]

"please don't put words in my mouth, the women don't necessarily talk about their kids"

Hm. Now thìs is an interesting topic. I always wondered that, what do women talk about - I mean besides fringues and stuff :) Reminds me of that film with Mel Gibson. Hmm... :)

[Dot KING]

So do we leave it there ladies and gentlemen with Valentin (alias Tootsie?) skating on such thin ice?? ;)
Are we tempted??
How will this cliffhanger end?
And do we see Cécilia as a leading light in her knighting circle or her knitting circle?
I don't think I'd like to have to spend time with the likes of Laura Bush and etc, but then I wouldn't like to be married to Nicolas Tsarkozy either. Maybe she just couldn't face the hamburgers and hotdogs . . .

PS Valentin, I see I'm getting demoted, last week King Dot, now plain old Lady Dot, j'attends avec impatience la suite . . . :)

[azloon]

the uncomfortable (and sometimes inconvenient) truth is that many modern women talk "trash" just like their men. some of us might even cringe a bit to hear some of it: size DOES matter, which new 20-something actor has the nicest ass, coaching a soon to be divorced friend on how to give her husband the biggest financial screwing possible (and guess who could be next??).

pour les hommes, it's stuff you probably don't want to hear, i promise.

[Valentin]

... and me, who was thinking I'm doing you an honour, assumming you're called something in the line of Dorothy King, and blessing you with a flattering (but what do I know, sometimes reality surpasses imagination!) Lady Dot, instead of the more bourgeois Lady King!
These people, whatever you do, they're never happy :)

(PS Tootsie?! "What women want"! Mel Gibson et surtout, Marisa Tomei!)

[Valentin]

"How will this cliffhanger end?"

With a 100+ -line funkily-rhymed (and followed by deep, repeated, apologies) poem ? Anyone ? :))

"the nicest ass"?? I see wits and humour are obsolete!

By the way, not all men, or in any case, *I* am not talking trash Mister, as a serious, linear over-dignified sometimes uptight but always self-respecting academic that I am ! :))

[Valentin]

Daniel,

Nice article, the indian one on Sarkozy, I've only read it now. Thanks!

[Sandrine]

"I always wondered that, what do women talk about - I mean besides fringues and stuff :)"

Men are from Mars and women from Venus. It's therefore proven that you guys should and will never know what women talk about when they're together. Anyway, I'm sure even if we told you, you wouldn't believe us ! ;o)

[Dot KING]

Valentin, you've got it - that is my true name, but only my mother used Dorothy! The "King Dot" of last week was a lame provocation from another blogger, maybe you didn't see it. I don't mind being whatever status you confer on me (well, within reason). Definitely not offended, promise.
And "Tootsie" because it was at least a watchable film - the Mel Gibson one, well, I lasted 15 mins only before giving up on it. If you think about it (laterally of course) comparing you to "Tootsie" was a sort of compliment! :)

[azloon]

Valentin --

truth: real, slovenly, testosterone-juiced men talk trash among themselves (i was a stocktrader for 20 years and there is no more profane group on the planet). it is not always pretty. but great fun. women know this, and have their own estrogen--laced version of it (right, Sandrine?)

V, i suggest you try this persona on for size, perhaps as a halloween costume, and see if you like it. why not wear this outfit to class on on october 31, and get your students' reactions. maybe do your lecture in rap form?

you really are a 'cold shower." :)

[Daniel Strohl]

Valentin,

"Nice article, the indian one on Sarkozy, I've only read it now. Thanks!"

It is always interesting to read an article if it is made "dans un esprit non partisan" by a person from a foreign country and civilization. Of course, some of our fellow bloggers will find the article to be "partisan" ...

[Valentin]

Or maybe that's my role here on this blog, Az :)

[Dot KING]

Valentin, Daniel, I too have now read the article in the Times of India and find it interesting that the Indians should envy the French unencumbered political administration - which speaks volumes about their own.
The other striking feature is the presentation of Sarkozy as a charismatic figure who can speak for (only?) an hour without a sip of water, has absolute power to appoint, hire and fire, and without going back to the article for the rest, I can't bring any others listed to mind.
Sarkozy is creating a kind of personality cult, he is everywhere, and this alone is becoming a national joke. Can we expect to see larger-than-life portraits on public buildings soon?
I don't find the article partisan, but it does bring to mind certain other political rises. Castro, for example?
Once again, I recommend for chilling similarities "La part de l'Autre", by E E Schmitt.
By comparison, Sarkozy is quite a little boy out there playing in the big boys' yard, but he has yet to discover it, though it's looking clear to others, and over the next five years I can hardly bear to think about what he could do with his "absolute power" as described in the Indian article.

[azloon]

V --

ahhh, a man who knows his place in the world (and on the blog). ok, truce. incidentally, i know you are not humourless. quite the opposite. let's put your emphasis there.

Dot: sarko is going a little bananas right now, kid in a candy store sort of thing. but he's smart. i don't worry too much about him making the exact same mistakes more than once or twice. in a year or so, he'll be a more seasoned statesman, and more influential, not so impulsive & eager to please imnsho.

CB- good god, man, these code numbers for entering a post are hard to distinguish. what happened??

[Sandrine]

"imnsho"

Er, eager to please who ?

"CB- good god, man, these code numbers for entering a post are hard to distinguish. what happened??"

Yeah, I was also wondering why they changed the codes... lol

[Valentin]

I wanted to make the same complaint, I needed to try 5 or 6 times before getting the numbers right!
If it is Typepad, with all due respect CB, I strongy albeit warmly recommend passing to Blogspot or other free and still USEABLE blog sites.

Azloon: please answer me this one question:
did you or did you not, take my line about the serious self-respecting academic seriously, be it for one second?
Come on man, I thought I'm making a good joke there! You can't, you of all people, not see that I was speaking in jest, making fun of my supposed self. My humour can't be THAT obscure!
It would be so depressing! :)

(like the whole "academic" story, for heaven's sake, I'm not academic or a teacher of any kind..)

[Valentin]

"Sarkozy is creating a kind of personality cult, he is everywhere"

Mylady, your logic's flaw is that if he Becomes an object of personality cult, Sarkozy is certainly Not *Creating* it himself. What you don't see is there really are people that admire him honestly and rationally, for what he said and for how he said it and how he actually tries to make it so.
His whole team is actually made of this kind of people: bright, even exceptional, very honest, and perfectly aware that they will have to move mountains of bad habits and prejudices.

Why do all women here (and most elsewhere) have to be sooo leftwing :(

[Daniel Strohl]

Azloon,

"i don't worry too much about him making the exact same mistakes more than once or twice".

This is also what I think. For the moment, he has only 5 months experience in foreign politics, but he learns fast. And furthermore, he has courage - this is more difficult and more uncommon than to make beautiful sentences - all politicians are able to do the latter and to postpone annoying problems in the future for their successors ...

Sandrine, Azloon

May be CB uses new codes in order to make it more difficult for robots to try to infest the blog with automated nonsense - we are able to do enough nonsense by ourselves even without robots and CB is busy enough to filter it out when needed (LOL).

Dot King,

"I can hardly bear to think about what he could do with his "absolute power" as described in the Indian article."

Unfortunately, there are many things to do which should have been done in the past years, as well in economy as in the French society. However, all this is easier to digest than the Versailles treaty for the Germans; and our economy, even if it is not in an especially good shape, is not comparable with that of the German twenties and beginning of the thirties. Strong measures have to be taken, but no Hitler is needed for that. And it is may be a bit farstretched to compare Sarko with Old El Barbudo, since the former does not smoke cigars (at least in public occasions) and drinks only water. And there is no Che around either, as far as I know, and I didn't notice any barbudo in the government, but rather charming (and brainy) ladies instead, which makes a difference ...

I fully understand the Indian journalist speaking of the inability of their governments to take the necessary measures because of the political system in place. We had a comparable system up to the arrival of de Gaulle (1958). Governments were regularly overthrown by the parliament may be every 6 months or less.

PS : I have not yet read "La part de l'autre"; there was also a big article on Hitler in "Le Point" of last week - I will read it also.

[azloon]

Sandrine -- fortunately for you, you are not on sarko's "A" list, so don't have to worry about him trying to please you. eager to please n'est pas le meme chose que to please. usually, just the opposite -- more annoying than anything.

you mentioned imnsho -- "in my not so humble opinion." surely, someone who has so deeply immersed herself in le culture americain knows this net abbreviation. more likely, your opinions are actually humble (imho), unlike mine.

ahhhhh....the ID letters/numbers are back to their old irritating, but readable form. this morning they looked like a printed page might look after drinking a bottle of tequila (the reader, not the page).

[Sandrine]

"His whole team is actually made of this kind of people: bright, even exceptional, very honest, "

Wow, talk about lèche-botte ! lol ! Valentin, are you looking for "une ouverture" to work with your Sarko adoré ?

(like the whole "academic" story, for heaven's sake, I'm not academic or a teacher of any kind..)

Ok, so what are you exactly ? Si ce n'est pas trop indiscret...

[Sandrine]

"surely, someone who has so deeply immersed herself in le culture americain knows this net abbreviation."

Well, dear Azloon, I've just arrived gimme some time to learn everything ! ;o)
Thanks for the answer, I knew IMO, or IMHO, but not the long one you used.

[Dot KING]

Valentin, I am not necessarily left-wing because I don't like Sarkozy or his methods - that's no more reasobable than my asking (if I were to, and I'm not) why all the men on this blog are sooooo right-wing - with no-one especially in mind of course.
His omni-presence and his eclipsing of those around him, supposedly in government by his side, is a foisting of his image on to the population, through the media, if not really with portraits on public buildings. (We English use exaggeration as a form of humour.)
I do accept that there are people who admire him and respect what he says and desire that what he says he will do. I also know some UMP members who think he's very bad news indeed.
Daniel, I don't compare Sarkozy to Hitler or Castro, that would be extreme and I would never say such a thing either lightly or seriously. I just compare the fulgurant rise to power, and the media omni-presence and the "sidelining" of what should be his political team, the appointment to key posts of his wife's friends or others on her recommendation. There is also the destruction of any possible opposition either from within or without his own party. It doesn't smack of democracy.

And we await with bated breath the (much-denied, soon-to-be) announcement from the Elysée that Sa Majesté Cécila is to leave her key (and her credit card maybe) under the Elysée mat.
If this proves to be the case, I wonder if all the appointments made on her recommendation will be reviewed?
If Cécilia goes and France gets knocked out of the Rugby World Cup tomorrow, will it change anything?

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot King,

"Daniel, I don't compare Sarkozy to Hitler or Castro"

Of course - I am not English, but nevertheless able to exaggerate a little bit too to make the point ...

"all the men on this blog are sooooo right-wing"

Our friend Dominique will get an attack of apoplexy... I will pray for him !

[Lilly]

According to the German media the French media is preparing tomorrow's top story: Sarkozy's divorce (?!), true?

[Valentin]

Dorothy,

So even though someone is much smarter, much more dynamic than others and knowing much better what he wants for him and for the country, he should level down, be quiet, and just melt in mediocrity, is that what you're saying, right?
A bit like the French television rules, who say, "give government and opposition equal broadcast time", and the journalists go ballistic, because the "opposition" really has NOTHING to say at all, meanwhile all the news, all the show too, but also all ideas and action, are coming from the Right.
But no, lets give them equal speech time, it's democracy, right, because democracy means exactly that, if I don't even have ONE useful idea and you have lots of them, one better than the other, we should still have equal speech time, so that I get my chance to express my nothingness too! Wonderful!

Daniel:
not only you're right, but I defy women here to claim support for Sarkozy and for the rightwing. I'm ready to bet not one will come forth!

[Dot KING]

Oh, Daniel, you DO disappoint me - talk about selecting phrases out of context!! :)
I said it wouldn't be "reasobable" (malheureuse faute de frappe ) to assume that all the men on the blog are "soooo right wing" in answer to Valentin's lament about left-wing women.
If I'd have added an extra "b" I'd have had "reasobabble" which I think is an excellent new word, especially for blogging.
Bon weekend - this said, I'll probably be here tomorrow, bonne nuit à tout le monde alors . . .

[Maggie G]

"I defy women here to claim support for Sarkozy and for the rightwing. I'm ready to bet not one will come forth!" (Valentin)

This depends on your definition of 'rightwing'. Do you mean 'rightwing' or 'free-market economy'? In the past you have used 'rightwing' when you meant (I think) 'free-market economy'.

Eg. "But other than extreme nationalism, I see no rightwing traces in what Nazis and Nazi-like parties have been, thought, or done."

"I say on the contrary that rightwing values are inherently peaceful and democratic and cannot lead to dictature."

'Rightwing' and 'free-market economy" are not identical concepts.

Jean-Marie Le Pen is rightwing. Are you saying, "I defy women here to claim support for Sarkozy and Jean-Marie Le Pen"?
Or are you saying, "I defy women here to claim support for Sarkozy and the free-market economy"?

[Pierre Bernardi]

This view of the president stepping out into a great big world reminds me of a comment of Rocket's some months back. When you notice that France is in the middle of the map you may start to realise that our president is better equipped than you think.

Daniel, what is it about the intelligentsia? do you think the English 'crachent' on Oxford and Cambridge? or the Americans on Harvard?

[Dot KING]

Good morning Valentin,
No indeed I don't say all of those things that you attribute to me - I just don't like the man, his politics, his methods, and I know people who are card-carrying members of the UMP who feel the same (and they aren't all women).
I haven't commented on the CSA time attribution policy or even defended the left, or anything. Goodness I'm not even French and can't affect what happens in albeit the slightest way, but I watch and listen and read, and I form my opinions, then I send them in specially so that you can misinterpret them to fit your next remark and whizz them back at me! :)
You say he's "much smarter" than everyone else - I don't agree with you, but I don't turn it into something you haven't said.
And nowhere in any of my posts have I claimed to be left-wing, nor have I defended the left or anyone representing left-wing policies - you simply assume anyone with breasts who doesn't agree with you is left-wing. Tsk tsk, Valentin.

Good morning Daniel, just in case you (or anyone) might be thinking I'm obsessed with books about Hitler, or even the man himself, seeing the ease with which we can be misinterpreted and/or give a false impression of where we're coming from politically - I'd like to make it very clear that Eric Emmanuel Schmitt is one of my favourite writers - I bought the book "blind" if you like, because it is by him.
I read it in early July and certain episodes reminded me of what we'd been seeing and hearing in the preceding weeks/months. It was a simple association of ideas after reading one of your blog posts.
The book is clever, thought-provoking, amusing in EES's typical way, and osé.
I hope you like it as much as I did.
Qu'est-ce qu'on se dit là? Bon app!

[Sandrine]

"But no, lets give them equal speech time, it's democracy, right, because democracy means exactly that, if I don't even have ONE useful idea and you have lots of them, one better than the other, we should still have equal speech time, so that I get my chance to express my nothingness too! Wonderful!"

Alors là Valentin, I'm really disappointed with what you just said. I really hope you're kidding. So, if I read you well, because Sarkozy's side has (in your opinion) "better" ideas, they should have more time on TV. Ok, let me say it in a polite way : THAT'S STUPID !!!

I can't believe it. It's not because you don't like what the others say (c'est l'opposition, ils s'opposent donc) that they should have less time to express themselves. Where have you seen that ????

Ahem, do you mean that if Ségolène had won the election, the UMP should have less time to speak right now ? Just because she had the best ideas ?

Bon allez, je me calme. Mais je te rappelle juste Valentin, que c'est ça la démocratie : donner la parole à l'opposition même quand certains considèrent qu'elle n'a rien à dire. Ce que TU et certains "journalistes embedded" appellent "rien" n'est pas forcément ce que pense le reste des français.

[Sandrine]

"you simply assume anyone with breasts who doesn't agree with you is left-wing. Tsk tsk, Valentin."

Lol, very well put !

"I defy women here to claim support for Sarkozy and for the rightwing. I'm ready to bet not one will come forth!" (Valentin)"

I was about to say : "where is Maggie when we need her ? " :o)

[azloon]

[Azloon: please answer me this one question:
did you or did you not, take my line about the serious self-respecting academic seriously, be it for one second?] M. Vee

let's just say i have been a bit confused about your true persona. so, yes, i guess you could say, for one second or two, i could have believed anything about you. still could.

perhaps you are too subtle for your own good (or too secretive). or i am way too dense -- not a remote possibility.

[Dot KING]

Sandrine, I have a new theory - what if "our funny Valentin, sweet comic Valentin" is really Sarkozy up to a spot of espionage?
Blogging when he should be jogging. Who else would know himself so well and respect his own views so much? And he has good reason to be a bit off women at the moment . . .
Perhaps it's Old Nick himself on the lookout for a replacement, perhaps a good idea to lay low for a day or two. At least keep the nichons à gauche ;)
Just read the article about the Sarkozy divorce announcement - silence radio total here for the moment, not a whisper on news broadcasts after the general hoo-ha hier.
Must take to task a Times Archive though, on May 6th Cécilia Sarkozy turned up to the polling station with hubby, but she didn't vote. Which is worse really than staying home and not voting when hubby is nearly President. The MSN website has a photo of her standing watching him drop his ballot-paper into the box, she looking unconnected and he with dippy schoolboy grin as usual.
Quelle comédie alors!

[Valentin]

Ok folks, I may be a flood of words every now and then, but I really can't take on all of you. Each's gonnna have to wait for his turn, ok?

Ok. Who's first.
Maggie G. lol Maggie, listen, my phrase came out like that precisely because I knew you'd come forth :) Or you'd come forth, not because you're a rightist, or a Sarkozyist, but because of certain things you think France needs.
I agree with you on those things, but let us make a trip in the country of Oz for a second (someone here must have seen this coming sooner or later :)) , forget France and talk about Canada.
Who would you vote for Maggie, the canadian right or left ?
Also, I didn't say all men are rightwing, and even less Sarkofans, I say (et je signe) women are by nature pragmatist (like Maggie, I think), but also their heart leans leftwards. Superb exceptions like Valérie Pecresse or Nadine Morano only confirm this rule.

Lady Dot:
returning from the aforementioned magical country back into the real world:
I did not for one second misinterpretted or twisted what you said. If my reaction was a bit, well, acid, is because I detected a certain... how would a French put it... "lack of sympathy" :) of quite pronounced colour, almost personal. I suspect deep inside you simply don't like Sarkozy's gueule and belong instead to the category of those who call him "morveux" (forgetting the works Sainte Ségolène had done to her face before running for office).
You speak of Sarko creating a personality cult, when he doesn't create or instigate anything in that sense. You speak of "larger than life" and "he is everywhere" repeating word by word Master Hollande's (and his mates') sentences.
Or this is the kind of criticism one makes when nothing else is there to criticize, and no counter-proposition is ever made, which for me equals to "j'aime pas ta gueule".
This is called infering, but of course you're free to say I misread you :)
Sarkozy does not impose anything, neither to newspapers, nor to the EU, US, Russia or any one else. It is just that he acts, a bit too quickly sometimes, without the "morgue" and the slow weight French Presidents had been accustomed us with, but he does do things, proposes new ideas, takes initiative, tries to make things move, in all domains.
Or all Left has to say is, "he's agitated", "he's childishly impulsive" - typical when there's nothing else worth saying.
Or yourself, Milady, youre taking exactly that attitude. And finish saying he'll become a big joke, which is again exactly what Left said all the time: he's either mad, or a fascist, or a joke.
So I return to my favourite phrase: Oh well...

Sandrine:
you need to learn to make a difference between rules and reality. Democratic and republican rules are about fairness, equality etc. But in our particular case, it is not that *I* think Left has nothing to say: they actually have NOthing to say at all, which is said by ALL journalists. Read Liberation or Le Monde, and you'll see the tone about Sarkozy is much more moderated now, and that he occupies much of the space, because he has the talent to always provoke a debate or an event. But this is neither unfair, nor undemocratical.
I don't say the rules are bad, I say the fact is that Sarko (and his) are the only ones having ideas, trying to accomplish something, acting, bringing debates on the stage. All Left does is spit out invectives (agitated etc) and fight about who should be candidate in 2012.
Now put yourself in the skin of a news editor, what ON EARTH can you do to ensure equality of speech time?

Azloon:
again, I'm not an academic. Ever since you came up with that expression, I mocked it by exaggerating it to caricature. Maybe that explains our past misunderstandings. You thought I was serious, cold shower, whatever, and I didn't understand why you reacted that way.
And if sometimes I come out as "uptight", or too intellectuallistic, other times I'm mocking myself for that too! :)
So cheer up, all hope is not lost for me LOL

Pheeew.
There you go. Hopefully I didn't forget anyone.
I'll go back to the rugby game now.
Later!

[Valentin]

Maggie G:
I mean leftwing and rightwing in the commonly accepted sense, lets not dive again into philosophical details :)

"you simply assume anyone with breasts who doesn't agree with you is left-wing"

Well basically yes, that's it lol :)
I'm not so old, but I still wait to meet ONE woman whose heart doesn't lean to the political left.Maybe I've just been unlucky. Care for a coffee, Dot ? :)
(and if you're not SHE either, hopefully ma gueule is better looking than Sarkozy's and I'll succeed in luring you over to the Dark Side :)

Sandrine:
to answer to an older question of yours, I work in finance (which explains the total incapacity to produce a shirtless photo: I only have suit-shirt-tie ones :)).

--
Actually I have to take back all that and admit. I have been uncovered. Le roi est nu (pour le plaisir de certaines :)). I actually am Nicolas. Your Nicolas, if you please, car je tâche d'être le Président de TOUS les Français.
I am jogging AND blogging at the same time.

[Sandrine]

"But in our particular case, it is not that *I* think Left has nothing to say: they actually have NOthing to say at all, which is said by ALL journalists."

I'm sorry Valentin, but that's what you think. Again, it's not because you don't agree with what the left says or does that it shouldn't appear in the press. When somebody from the left says something against the new "DNA law", nobody cares. When it's Fadela Amara, she's in front page ! Why ?

I would like to hear what the left has to say. It's not because they lost that they lost their right to speak. You say that Sarko is doing a lot of things ? Well, excuse me, he's the president, OF COURSE he's doing a lot of things. Now, I'm sure Hollande does a lot of things in his own town, but you don't hear about that : which is normal.

So yeah, Sarko's moving a lot, he's announcing a lot, he's going to the most funerals possible, he's running a lot ! Only one question... SO WHAT ? It doesn't mean anything, except that he's very active. In French : ce ne sont pas ceux qui brassent le plus d'air qui sont le plus efficaces !!

I'm glad you love him so much, (boy are you proud of him !!) but the opposition has also the right to speak, whether you and the journalists like what you hear or not.

ça suffit de dire que la gauche n'a rien à dire. ça on l'entend partout, mais quand elle l'ouvre, elle est accusée de n'avoir pas digéré la défaite et de ne pas accepter la grandeur de notre cher Sarko ! Du coup, je suis persuadée que dès qu'on le peut, on lui coupe la parole. Et comme, elle n'apparait plus trop dans la presse ou à la télé, sauf pour se déchirer (le parti est en pleine "reconstruction") tout le monde en déduit qu'elle n'a rien à dire ! CQFD ! Et je ne suis pas la seule à penser cela ! Il y avait un excellent article dans Le Monde qui en parlait il n'y a pas si longtemps.

"I'll go back to the rugby game now."

Which we just lost. I want to see a picture of Dominique dancing in the street !

"I have a new theory - what if "our funny Valentin, sweet comic Valentin" is really Sarkozy up to a spot of espionage? "

I'm starting to wonder Dot king !! :ol)

[Valentin]

"it's not because you don't agree with what the left says or does that it shouldn't appear in the press"
"It's not because they lost that they lost their right to speak. "

No Sandrine, they didn't lose that right. But if they don't use it, or they use it to fight amongst themselves, or they use it to repeat over and over that Sarkozy is fascist or agitated - I mean, if they use it like that, no wonder no one listens.
No one discriminates the opposition because they love Sarkozy. I am ready myself to listen to any reasonable argument brought to the table. Except there is none!
What would you have the press do, invent news and political programs when there isn't any?
Most journalists, even at Figaro, are center- or even straight left. If all PS has to say is that the press is under Sarkozy's knee because of his friendships with Lagardère, Bouuygues and Rotschild, no one listens to such stupidity.
I don't say accept the greatness of Sarkozy, but I do say that lefties behave like angry kids who can't take defeat. Closing your eyes and imagining you shut down the world is silly: Sarkozy still won, he is still there, and not all he does is bad.
Suffices to get out of the activist skin one minute and envision the fact that maybe the man is not so evil, maybe he does want the good for France, even if from a liberal point of view.

Drop the acharnement Sandrine, world is not in black and white. Say after me: Sarkozy can do good things too, and I'm ready to accept that :))

[Daniel Strohl]

Pierre,

"Daniel, what is it about the intelligentsia?"

I have nothing against intelligence or high level diplomas, of course. The "intelligentsia" I was referring to in the specific matter is mainly l'ENA - all of them are of course intelligent and educated, and have worked very hard to get their diplomas within a fierce competition; they are also very dedicated - but since too many years, they monopolize the high levels of government (right or left) and come mostly out of families of also high level civil servants. This is not "une tare", of course, but in my opinion a handicap when it comes to economic matters - most of them have never experienced the stress to keep a company running despite the competition and to work and to take risks (with their own belongings) in order to be able to pay and to keep their employees. Therefore, their management of the state's money (i.e ours) tends sometimes to be somewhat irrealistic. And when something goes wrong, sometimes they feel "responsables mais pas coupables" (btw, in the private industry, it is not much better either in that matter...)

Allow me an anecdote which goes several years back - may be you remember of the "surgénérateur Phénix". The project was cancelled (for various reasons) after several years of hard work and expenditures. At that time, I heard an interview of the technical head of the projet. He explained that in technics, one must admit that projects may fail - no problem for me to admit and to understand that fully - mais il a conclu son exposé avec une phrase que j'ai trouvée pour le moins désinvolte, et d'ailleurs dite sur un ton également désinvolte si ma mémoire est bonne : "La manip a coûté 60 milliards". C'était sûrement quelqu'un de très brillant intellectuellement, mais un peu loin des réalités économiques ...

Of course, this is only an anecdote and one should never generalize basing on this type of example. In fact, most of the civil servants are dedicated and honest persons - a well working administration with brilliant brains at the head is absolutely necessary. And we have got that. The only thing which displeases me strongly in our "services publics" are the strikes, grèves récurrentes comme les fièvres du même nom, particulièrement à la SNCF (par ex. lors des passages aux horaires d'été ou d'hiver), et les votes "démocratiques" à main levée, spécialité maison de la CGT.

[Dot KING]

I was watching the rugby like everyone else - we only saw Sarkozy for a nanosecond - just enough time to see him slap a back and laugh. We saw plenty of other celebrities, even a prince, for a lot longer. And still no mention of the vanishing Cécilia nor the "imminent" divorce - could it be he's imposed a media block in France?
Ah, sweet comic Valentin, I didn't for one second mistake you for an academic - your thinking is all over the place. Thanks for coming clean about your true identity though - always remember that the next line of that song is "you make me smile with my heart". (I won't sing the rest just yet.)
I still didn't say any of the things you once again attribute to me. Try to imagine for a minute that La Gauche had something to say - would you listen? More importantly, would you hear? And if you think Nadine Morano (of all people) has leanings to the left through pragmatism, then some of us will have to re-examine our definitions of left/right. Come on, you say that surely only to prove your own point, if she were male she'd be a Sarkozy henchman.
Nor do I repeat Hollande's words - it might surprise you, but the presence of breasts doesn't necessarily interfere with the ability to think for oneself - nor have I expressed any admiration for Ségolène Royal - all of this comes from you - you just make us say what you want us to be saying so that you can tell us what inferior thinkers we are and therefore wrong about Sarkozy.
If you can like and admire Sarkozy for what he says and does and promises, then anyone else can have the opposite stance without it being personal.
I like my café double et bien serré as you might have guessed. ;)

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot King,

"we only saw Sarkozy for a nanosecond" - I didn't see him at all - my rise time is barely in the millisecond range; btw, are you active in electronics or semiconductors ? Bien sûr, je ne veux pas être indiscret, mais j'ai fini ma carrière professionnelle dans ce milieu. Par contre, je ne suis pas un "faux academic" comme quelqu'un de connu sur le blog ...

[Valentin]

"it might surprise you, but the presence of breasts doesn't necessarily interfere with the ability to think for oneself"

Oh my, on the contrary, the combination is on ne peut pas plus sexy ;) It isn't complete though without that sentimental side we other neanderthals often lack or hide, and it's the whole that makes interraction with a nichons possessor so... interesting - except if we speak politics, that is.
Wouldn't you like a drop of scotch in that coffee too ? :)

[Sandrine]

"with a nichons possessor so.."

Wow, très élégant Valentin !

"Drop the acharnement Sandrine, world is not in black and white."

Well I can tell you the same thing Valentin. I guess we'll never agree on this one.
Repeat after me : "even if I don't like the left, I recognise that it has every right to speak whenever it wants and ABOUT whatever it wants."

Nobody can judge what the left says. We're not in America, but I guess free speech exists in France.

"Try to imagine for a minute that La Gauche had something to say - would you listen? More importantly, would you hear? "

Excellently put Dot King. That's all the story of the left for now. Before even listening to it, people will be biased and will say that it's just a bunch of "aigris".

For now, it's don't touch Sarkozy. Because the Guy is so perfect and is always right ! Even Valentin couldn't find ONE thing that wasn't perfectly good for France since the beginning of His presidency. And everybody knows Valentin tried, hard, to find one reproach... :o)

Valentin,
"Sarkozy can do good things too, and I'm ready to accept that :))"

As soon as my salary rises as he promised (but not for 5 euros as I think it'll only be) I'll be the one to scream that here. ;o)

[Dot KING]

Bonjour Daniel,
No, not in electronics at all - complete mystery to me. Since living in France, I worked over 10 years as a bilingual secretary, ands have now found a job in a collège privé, teaching French to the anglophone pupils who need help and the occasional French one who's behind in English. (I am a teacher, so I'm lucky to be in France and in my true profession.) If you want the full story, when I arrived in 1991 and obtained equivalence de diplômes, I then looked into applying for a teaching post in the state system and was astonished to find that I would have no choice in where I might be employed, so gave up and did something else. I don't understand why teachers find the system of "mutation" acceptable.

I think the glimpse of Sarkozy last night was a "mistake", whoops, camera slipped - it really was almost at the subliminal level.
I don't have any impression of your being a faux-academic, you're evidently a person who has studied and knows how to reason. Ca se voit. Même si on n'est pas toujours d'accord.

Now, change of subject before anyone accuses us of initiating a mutual admiration society. For anyone who didn't catch the news at midday, it was announced, to my amazement, that today is national breast-feeding day and all women in a condition to participate are invited to public breast-feeding rallies. Le chiffre donné est de 72% de femmes qui allaitent leurs enfants de nos jours.
There, that makes a change from rugby and errant wives, doesn't it?

No scotch in the coffee thanks, Valentin, I'm in Armagnac country, but even so, a couple of carrés de chocolat fin bien noir serait ma préférence à moi.

[Valentin]

"As soon as my salary rises as he promised"

Aïe aïe, selling her principles for a couple of coins :))
Just kidding, Sandrine.
I guess we'll never agree on Sarkozy, indeed. Left didn't respect Chirac as president elected by the people, I won't expect more for Sarko. "We" put this in the category "la pensée unique de gauche". Peace, though :)

Speaking of new topics. Lady Dot seems to show kind of a fascination with breast-related topics. Hmmm. Would she be a king indeed, after all, and I've been wrong all along... jury's still out on that one :)

[Dot KING]

I had you in mind, funny Valentin, with that newsworthy chesty item - you're my favourite work of art - but don't change a hair(shirt) for me da da da da da dee

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot King,

"Now, change of subject before anyone accuses us of initiating a mutual admiration society."

This is a good one ! But you are right, since there are a few "langues bien pendues" on the blog ... LOL

PS : I am pleased to know that you are a teacher. It is a beautiful and interesting task, even if as a job, it is not too lucrative and may be not always easy nowadays. My grand'father was a teacher - he was of the generation of Dr.Schweitzer, who played the organ at the wedding of my grand parents.

[azloon]

Dot --

I hope national breast feeding day in france was strictly une affaire privee (une idee conceptuelle), and not a public demonstration, during which one might glimpse a young mother zipping down the champs elysee on a velib avec bebe, la chemise ouverte.

does the breast feeder gain any added stature if if she simultaneously disdains consumption of genetically modified foods?

a bit of an ironic twist that les bleus are probably crying for their mothers about now. (got milk?? for americans only)

i am going on record in favor of all blog discussions involving female breasts.

[Michel S.]

The Guardian (see link) is now reporting that a divorce announcement is imminent -- citing L'Express and Le Nouvel Observateur.

Looking forward to an update from you, Charles!

[Valentin]

Smile with my heart, favourite work of art... I'd be blushing, if I wasn't worried of a personality cult burgeoning around my humble personna... unless this comes straight from some song well known in the anglosaxon world... Azloon was actually quoting one some weeks ago... Little Oz gal must be laughing in his fists right now... Hmmm!

[Dot KING]

Hello Daniel - As yet the anglophone pupils are a minority in French schools, so I rarely see more than two at a time (I need to "express" them into being able to cope). This said, last week, 8 French kids from 3ème turned up voluntarily to an English lesson timetabled for the lunch-hour! Wow, not lost my touch then.
Dr Schweitzer the grandfather of Sartre? Wow again.

Sorry Azloon, National Breast-feeding Day was public enough to get a slot on the national news on Fr2 last night, but I got my figures wrong, soixante not soixante-douze%. It was originally a child-health issue of course, but turned into a gooey event (OK OK - I expect everything thrown at me for that one).

Valentin, you are obviously in need of all the lyrics to "My Funny Valentine" which refers to St Valentine's Day (in English a Valentine - which has come to mean a loved one - can be male or female).
Do you want me to post the lyrics (think carefully about this before deciding) or would you prefer to seek out one or two of the best-known versions and listen? (Ella Fitzgerald or Frank Sinatra - so you see it's interchangeable) According to the last line, if I plagiarise like I have the rest, just for you, then "each day is Valentin's Day". I think on this blog, for some of us you are already a personality cult.

[Valentin]

lol Dorothy, I wish I could BE a personality cult, I really wish that; but if one is en train to BE CREATED or is developing already, on my word, who am I to protest! By all means, cult away!
Can I have 50 virgins sponging me with their soft, white, naked breasts? :))

[azloon]

[a personality cult burgeoning around my humble personna... unless this comes straight from some song well known in the anglosaxon world... Azloon was actually quoting one some weeks ago]. M. Vee

V, you are surely being coy. Dot also mentioned the "some song well known in the anglosaxon world." i am sure you can sing it by heart.

your 'humble persona' is suspect. having revealed to us that you work in the world of finance, i a wondering if perhaps you are one of these french "quants,' out of polytechnique, who have been at the cutting edge of financial derivatives which, now in their present incarnation in u.s. subprime mortgages, are looming menacingly over the world's economies. you can confess now, or face our relentless pursuit of the real valentin. humble, indeed.

[Valentin]

lol I actually don't trust myself any more than you do, Az. I worked in a lawyer's office, a realestate firm, a software one, a credit risk evaluator (no, Enron was not me), a securities firm (Clearstream just a door away)... so you can say my personna is suspect alright. Nothing to do with subprimes though, at least that sin is not mine :)

[Sandrine]

Can I have 50 virgins sponging me with their soft, white, naked breasts? :))

Ok, je vais faire ma chieuse. Why the need to specify "white" ?

[Valentin]

"Why the need to specify white"

To better conform to the different clichés :)

[Lilly]

Valentin,

You consider yourself ‘right-wing’. I don’t think right-wing men commonly want their ONE-woman-in-a-million to be necessarily right-wing, too. What about a woman who is intelligent – and not a political militant of any kind, though it always comes in handy when she’s rich, indeed. Aren’t you too romantic yourself (to the point to be compared to Valentine flowers! because you try too hard to come across as the rational hardliner) to really want to look for some cold shower business woman??

[Dot KING]

As I said "each day is Valentin's Day!
So that's your definition of a personality cult is it? I suppose I should have defined my terms before unleashing them to your pervy fantasies . . .
You gave yourself away a bit with the "white" breasts - bit of a faux pas that one.
Sandrine, What a team YESSSS!

[azloon]

Sandrine --

[i am going on record in favor of all blog discussions involving female breasts.] me

i agree totally with your comment about the 'white' notation in V's post re breasts. gratuitous (or worse), imo.

"a breast is a breast is a breast is a rose" (said former parisian gertrude stein, or words to that effect).

.........with sublime metaphorical fragrance, and, hopefully, de-thorned.

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot King,

"Dr Schweitzer the grandfather of Sartre?"

No, not exactly. Dr. Schweitzer's cousine was the mother of Sartre.However, Sartre is not one of my favourites ...

Dr.Schweiter got the prix Nobel de la Paix in 1952 or 53. In Alsace, he is mostly known for the work he made in the hospital he had founded in Lambarene (Gabon). He was also a well known organist and specialist of Bach. His "maison natale" (birth house ?) is in Gunsbach, a small village about 15 kms away from where we live. There is a small museum in it and the external walls of the house are covered with ivy.

[Lilly]

What’s in the colour of the breast:

I am always surprised by any female obsession with breasts. Anyway. What exactly is the problem with preferring white to other coloured breasts? Most who love women tend to appreciate any breast. But then there are wo/men who like all men and there are others who prefer curly-haired men or blond men or black or white men or even: hairy chests(!) This is discriminating, of course, because this speaks of personal taste but why infer racism? Ideally any married man should make such statement as to preferring only white or yellow or black breasts… - Somehow most like them all anyway which can be more of a problem, n’est-ce pas? -

[Valentin]

"I saw upon her breast two caskets snowy-white;
she doth forbid to lovers their delight.
She guards them with the darts that glitter from her eyes;
And those who would them press, her arrowy glances smite."

There, you bunch of unbelievers ! :)

[Valentin]

Lilly,

Almost certainly, any kind of political conversation with my One-in-a-million would very very quickly derive to other much more interesting subjects - business woman or not. I trust myself to have better ideas for passe-temps together than debating Sarko's last move, so your question isn't very relevant :)

[Dot KING]

@ Daniel: oh, that Dr Schweitzer then - of course I was aware of him too and that I had a 50% of picking the wrong one - never fails.

[Lilly]

Si six-cent-six sangsues sont sur son sein sans sucer son sang, ce sont six-cent-six sangsues sans succès.

[Lilly]

"I trust myself to have better ideas for passe-temps together than debating Sarko's last move, so your question isn't very relevant :)" (Valentin)

Good luck! ---:)

[Dominique]

Didon dîna dit-on du dos dodu d'un dodu dindon

(say it fast!)

[Daniel Strohl]

Dot King,

Errare humanum est - Dr.Schweitzer was born in Kaysersberg, not in Gunsbach as I mentioned falsely. But he lived there when he was in Alsace.

Albert Schweitzer was born in 1875, and my grand father in 1877.

Lilly,

"Si six-cent-six sangsues sont sur son sein sans sucer son sang..."

Donnerwetter !

Valentin,

"I saw upon her breast two caskets snowy-white;
she doth forbid to lovers their delight ..."

Sounds like one of your favourite Japanese poems ... May be I am wrong!

[Sandrine]

Lilly, that would be sad if a guy only liked one color for the breasts, but hey you're right, everybody has its preferences.

I didn't say that Valentin was racist, of course he's not, it's just that what he said was a bit strange, as if the "white" was too much (not necessary to specify it). But once again, no problem with that. I propose that we give him 60 black virgins with soft naked breasts and see how he reacts !! ;o)

"I am always surprised by any female obsession with breasts."

?? I'm sorry, what ? Who is obsessed here ? I mean except Valentin and Azloon who are not really females... ;o)

Anyway, you know what Dot King ? I breastfed my daughter for six months and I was so happy with that, it was of course better for her health and above all less expensive for us. I did it once in public (when you have to do it, you have to do it !) and nobody cared ! It was great, no weird nor angry looks. But I was embarrassed anyway... It's not an easy thing to do. Congrats to the people who did that last Sunday.

[Sandrine]

oh oh, Lilly I have another one :

"C'est pas beau, mais tentant, de tenter de tâter, de téter les tétons de tata quand tonton n'est pas là."

And this one :

"Viens dans mon sein doux pour y goûter la vie d'ange.
Viens dans mon saindoux pourri, goûter la vidange."

Lol, I just love those funny sentences !!

[Lilly]

« Female obsession with… » female attributes. – (me)

Sandrine,

What I was aiming at was the female trend to be as attractive as possible – and then complain about being liked/appreciated because of one’s breasts only. I think we all use our specific persuasive power when needed, from time to time and not always consciously. To be taken seriously as a woman, we shouldn’t bother about men who get genetically (because this is all about procreation) distracted by our physical appearance.

It is quite revealing to get upset about a man who has a preference for female attributes that don’t match ones own (sorry, I need the example to illustrate my point) or to be particularly happy about a man who appreciates ones ideas, with some doubtful flavour of: ‘He likes my ideas. So, what’s wrong with my body?’

So, it’s best to just let them be distracted and confused. They can’t help it anyway while (IMNSHO) we should know better. -

** Thanks for the ‘tongue-twisters’!!!**

[Dot KING]

Good morning Sandrine,
I didn't mean to pass any judgement on breast-feeding - I just thought it was unusual to have a National Day of it - and of course when I said it was turned into something "gooey" rather than the child-health issue, it wasn't meant as a joke, I should have said "sentimental" (I just corrected a wonderfully freudian faute de frappe "sentimenatal"), but as a reflection of what happens every time there's a mention of anything baby-related. Nothing against babies either (just for the record), but I thought the health side of things would have been more interesting.
Valentin's first show of erudition, see you stroke him dans le sens des poils, however he asks for this:
"is your figure less that Greek?
is your mouth a little weak?
when you open it to speak
are you smart?"

[azloon]

DOT --

when i chided Valentin awhile back with a 'valentin, my funny valentin," i didn't expect we'd have such a
blogger as you who would 'run' with the lyrics ( which i couldn't remember well without your reminders) :) what a great song!

p.s. as is my habit, i was way too literal-minded with 'gooey." (my wife breastfed all three of ours and occasionally it was quite 'gooey' as they were handed back to me).

i will suggest that "sentimenatal" be discussed by the academie francaise for possible designation as an 'auxilllary' french word. 'full word' status could be awarded as soon as early in the next century.

you may be getting a little too loose with language over there. it's a serious subject you know.

[Daniel Strohl]

Sandrine,

Savez-vous que le match de rugby que nous avons perdu contre les Anglais a eu au moins un effet positif ? Celui de vous avoir peut-être évité une fluxion de poitrine due à des manifestations de joie débridée (exprimées, comment dire ... toutes voiles dehors) sur les rives venteuses du Potomac ...

[Valentin]

"Sounds like one of your favourite Japanese poems"

Not at all, those are almost contemporary in their abstractness... To me it first sounded like one of those Shakespeare's youth poems, but unless I'm wrong, mine is an excerpt from a 1001 Nights tale :) One can hardly find more beautiful and.. how do you say this, épurée, description of a woman, than in those tales... except maybe the bible :)

[Maggie G]

I breastfed my first son for two and a half years, and the second one for two years. Nothing ideoligical, they just really liked milk. Also, living across the ocean from my parents, I was terrified of submitting a planeful of people to the horrors of a screaming baby, and knew that breast-feeding was the best way to avoid this.

With my first son, we lived in the same house as we do now -- just across from the sea (with my husband's parents). I don't think there are as many topless women on the beach nowadays as there were back then -- I think women are more aware of cancer risks these days (but I could be wrong, as I only go to the beach early in the morning now, when there aren't many women about). Anyway, all the women on the beach were topless back then, and the joke in the family is that whenever we took our first son to the beach, he thought he was at a milk bar. I don't remember if he ever actually crawled up to another woman for a drink, or if it's just a family legend whose origin is lost in the mists of time.

Since Dot said she was interested in the health aspects of breast-feeding, I might add that neither of my sons was ever seriously sick -- never had any ear-aches or anything like that.

[Dot KING]

Hello Azloon, I only discovered this blog a couple of weeks ago (seems like I've been here forever) and so I hadn't seen your "funny Valentin" post - the idea came to me on a rare occasion when I was able to tear myself away from the PC and walk the dog!
If this goes on I'll soon stop showering and dressing and just sit here watching the screen for new posts, wearing an increasingly grubby dressing gown, my hair in curlers, and an overflowing ashtray at my side.
The good news is that I've never smoked and I don't possess any curlers. And before it all starts, my dressing gown is clean! For the moment . . .
I was tempted to leave my typo, glad you liked it.
Talking of the dynamics of the French language (we were, weren't we?), last week my students in 4ème were studying (in France that means learning by heart, hmmph) "Les Mistrals Gagnants" (a song by Renaud, sort of a French Bob Dylan) which contains the verb "niquer" which has completely changed its meaning since he wrote the song; "et nous niquaient les lèvres" was the line in question, I think.
My anglophone pupils have heard the word in the playground and know it's a gros mot. An excellent opportunity, for which I heartily thanked the perplexed French teacher afterwards, to explain, oh yez, and demonstrate, the dynamics of the French language. I've never been known to dodge a (serious) question in the classroom, but I did hesitate some before giving the English equivalent as used en langage courant. Along with an explanation that etc etc . . .
One day I was asked to babysit a class for an absent English teacher, and asked the kids to say and write a few sentences about themselves. One boy wrote "I am very beautiful. I am a kamikaze pilot." He showed me his effort with pride and I said that it was a shame, that we'd just got to know each other and that soon he'd be gone. Puzzled, he asked why. So I explained that a kamikaze pilot had to be good at his job because he only got one try at it (ooh, I realise this isn't sounding amusing, but this is the class clown we're talking here, just telling him off, no effect - and it was quite funny just to see his range of facial expressions). Why, he asked again, so I explained about the word "kamikaze" (including its origin WW2, all that, with details) and he said "oh non, some of them survive." At which I smiled sadly and said, no, 'fraid not, not if they do their job. At which he realised I wasn't joking and decided he would be president of he USA instead (La France étant nulle). When it happens, you might notice the difference! :)

[Dot KING]

Valentin, any woman figuring in the tales told by Scheherezade is highly unlikely to have had white breasts. A moment's thought . . .

[Dot KING]

Hello Maggie, Yes, it might have been interesting just to mention in passing whilst showing the breast-feeding rallies on the news, that antibiodies are passed on to the infants through the mother's milk. Simple as that - and probably the reason for the campaign which got lost in the sentimentality.

[Sandrine]

"the joke in the family is that whenever we took our first son to the beach, he thought he was at a milk bar. "

Priceless !! :o)

"I didn't mean to pass any judgement on breast-feeding -"

Ok, I didn't think that at all, I'm sorry I might have missed the "gooey" part... I was just sharing my experience with you.

Lilly,

"** Thanks for the ‘tongue-twisters’!!!** "

You're welcome !! And I get your point, don't worry...

Daniel, I'm still not happy that we lost. But hey, you're right of course, I'm kinda happy I didn't have to flash anything !!

[azloon]

[When it happens, you might notice the difference! :)]

or perhaps not. i am open to most alternatives. :)

robfur@mac.com

[Valentin]

"woman figuring in the tales told by Scheherezade is highly unlikely to have had white breasts"

Well then I guess you'll have to go back and read the stories - there were plenty of handsome, hairless, soft-skinned white males too - and NOT ALL of them were eunuchs :))

[Dot KING]

Valentin, read 'em (at least partially) last year with my 5èmes, but I don't think your quotation comes from there anyway. I don't know the source (surprised no-one's picked that up by now) but I don't think the "1001 Nights" were written in verse. It could be a XIX century poet's version of same - smacks of it language-wise. Tennyson? Someone of that ilk?
I don't have a preference in skincolour BTW.

[Valentin]

It actually IS a XIX century versification - I have no idea by whom, though. Nevertheless, as far as I can tell, the storyline is untouched.

[Dot KING]

Mystery pillar of salt found on Swiss / France border.

[Maggie G]

I just googled it, and it's definitely from the "1001 Nights" -- a version by John Payne (1842 - 1916).

The site says, "Please feel free to browse through the website, visiting the different versions of Arabian Nights by Burton, Dixon, Lang, Payne and Scott - or use the search engine to look for a specific tale."

[Dot KING]

Well done Maggie! I note Valentin admits to not knowing the source of the poetry he quotes - talk about using whatever's there to suit your purpose!

[Lilly]

I'mmm dreamin' of a whiiite Christmas...

[Valentin]

lol Dottie, the source of the quote, and I mean the original one, IS a 1001 Nights tale - I just prefered it in that form 'cause I'm a fan of old English poetry. I've noted the intention though :)

Rob: the problem with that song (I finally found a version by Sinatra btw) is that it's so specific to the saxon world. I mean, if one doesn't get it for such a long time, what's the fun :)

Lilly: shushhh, what "Christmas"!? Happy Holidays! :)

[Valentin]

Daniel:
Potomac winds salute you ! Chapeau for the true leader of the Club ! :))

[Daniel Strohl]

Valentin,

"Potomac winds salute you !" I like the formulation - ça me rappelle mes (jeunes) années de marine ...

[azloon]

V: "Rob: the problem with that song (I finally found a version by Sinatra btw) is that it's so specific to the saxon world. I mean, if one doesn't get it for such a long time, what's the fun :)"

you're right, i was being too subtle, probably playing to my saxon audience (and what a small, brutish bunch that is!!!). but, and this is a big but (which, in females, i like btw), just imagine the level of subtlety your are achieving en ingles by having these things fed out to your slowly, tantalizingly, with the tacit assumption that you understand perfectly which you soon will. :)

now i must get back to the color of breasts and the color of women in general: my favorite american comedian, larry david, writer and producer of the late, great, seinfield show, who now has his own show, "curb your enthusiasm, on HBO, did a nice 'riff' on female colors last night. trying in his inimitably, irritating way to mollify a 'woman of color' who was questioning his apparent tastes in women, he told her, "i'm in love with them all, from the purest albino to deep, dark african purple, really, all of them, i'm not kidding. i reallly do."

i could only nod in agreement.

btw, expecting you to know the authors of the poetry you quote is going a little far, imo.

[Lilly]

"shushhh, what "Christmas"!? Happy Holidays!:)" (Valentin)

Valentin, we're not there yet. It's just a line in a song. Music is culture - and allowed. Happy Holidays will come up later. - This was only for the 'dreaming of white...' (wanted to add something pertinent to the subject matter).

[Valentin]

"t's just a line in a song. Music is culture - and allowed."

I know that, it is only that white xmas discriminates all the other xmases, red, yellow or black; then again, even by quoting xmas, is discriminating against all those hanukas out there, so in the name of the political correctness, something had to be said!

Sinon (@Azloon) I guess I'll stick to my transparently white, sylphide-like preferences :)

[Lilly]

"now i must get back to the color of breasts and the color of women in general" (Azloon)

Azloon,

you're so really very funny! Besides, Valentin and you appear to find PEACE around the image of soothing breasts...

Here's some more colourful stuff for Azloon with the any colour preference to spur the imagination (might be too much colour, perturbing the imaginative process?):

http://madame.lefigaro.fr/societe/enquetes/160-coup-de-projecteur-montrez-ce-sein/1

Valentin,

you were right criticising me having mentioned Xmas on this multicultural blog but the 'white' in the song lyrics was only about politically correct innocent snow.

[Valentin]

Lilly:

"Valentin and you appear to find PEACE around the image of soothing breasts"

Maybe it's because we werent breastfed ourselves, we remained with this eternal longing :)

"you were right criticising me having mentioned Xmas"

I wasn't criticizing, I was being ironical, I was repeating what political correctness would dictate us to say, and exaggerating it beyond common sense. I thought "political correctness" is bad by definition, in all countries and languages.
My humour is definitely obscure it seems; must find a way to change that.

[Lilly]

Oh Valentin, oh oh! - I was only admitting to the Xmas "mistake" in order to illustrate that I was neither politically incorrect nor racist mentioning: white snow. I had understood your humour and unsuccessfully tried to spin it further. - This clash of cultures is terrible at times. English as the common denominator doesn't really help much.

The "not-having-been-breastfed-myself" argument isn't unfamiliar to me... - What shall we women say who weren't breastfed ourselves and are expected to offer our services to young and old?! Should "men-having-been-breastfed" differ from the Azloons' and your kind?

[azloon]

[The "not-having-been-breastfed-myself" argument isn't unfamiliar to me... - What shall we women say who weren't breastfed ourselves and are expected to offer our services to young and old?! Should "men-having-been-breastfed" differ from the Azloons' and your kind?] LILLY

Lilly, offer 'your services' ?? hmmm.... are you frequently asked to provide breast milk to men who weren't breastfed? or, just men who are willing to take the chance that you are not lactating? :)

i was breastfed, so my interest here is about 'sustenance" of the metaphorical variety. hey, why give up something that worked so well in your early years? who cares about milk?

this may gross some out, but my former wife, while at a 1960s hippie-style, gestalt psychology workshop, offered to 'express' some of her breast milk (we had an infant), for a workshop participant who was bewailing his neglect at not having been breastfed. he declined. mercifully.

btw, did you know that ebay not too long ago decided that breast milk could not be auctioned on it's website (it was a popular item). apparently, a health issue, not judgemental nor moral. i don't think they decided about auctioning dry breasts, but i can guess what they would say about that. :)

[Lilly]

Azloon,

I won't go into any detail about the services I have on offer, i.e. no comment.

So, Valentin was wrong supposing that you as him were not breastfed. And my guess was right that mothermilk doesn't generate breast-resistant men. What a relief! I didn't spoil my boys' lifes who are totally inexperienced with baby bottles (for the lactation record).

[azloon]

Lilly --

no, regretfully, male immaturity is universal --breastfed ou non.

your sons hopefully will grow up to experience the pleasures of such immaturity.

:)