The French President's Women

Jacques Chirac has just given away a few secrets as he approaches retirement from the presidency after 12 years in office and an amazing four decades at the top of politics.  Following the example of François Mitterrand, the Socialist predecessor to whom he always felt inferior, Chirac has just "confessed" to Pierre Péan. Mitterrand used the same writer to air murky episodes from his past in a book before leaving office in 1995.

Péan's book, l'Inconnu de l'Elysée (The Stranger at the Elysée), is out in a couple of days. We can deal with the political stuff then, but in the meantime let's look at the president's love life. I was scolded on France Inter radio this morning for my Anglo-Saxon fascination with such trivial matters, but too bad.   

In an extract published by Marianne magazine, Chirac confirms his appetite for extraconjugal affairs.

Like many French and non-French politicians, Chirac has enjoyed a reputation as a prolific Don Juan. A strong interest in the opposite sex has long gone with the job -- with the notable exception of the very upright Charles de Gaulle. President Félix Faure died in office in bed with a mistress in 1899. The nocturnal adventures of President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing made the news in the 1970s and Mitterrand's skill and appetite as seducteur were legendary. The 1994 revelation of an illegitimate Mitterrand daughter and secret second household represented only a small part of his extracurricular pursuits.   

Chirac tells Péan: “I didn’t hate women, but I didn’t overdo it." Bernadette, his wife since 1956, was exaggerating when she reported four years ago that women had always flocked around her handsome husband, he says. But the dalliances were not important. It was possible that a particular journalist had been his mistress when he was Prime Minister in the 1970s, he says, “but it is not something that had a big effect on me”. 

“Amorous adventures have not played a determining role in my life. There have been women I have loved a lot, as discreetly as possible,” he says. Chirac insists that there had never been any question of leaving his wife, whom he met when both were students at the Political Sciences Institute in Paris.

The President did, however, dismiss one old rumour: that he had fathered an illegitimate son in Japan. He was furious, he says, in 2001 when he found out that the French Intelligence Service (DGSE) was investigating the tale, which has circulated in Tokyo for two decades.

Chirac's confession has caused barely a ripple, in keeping with France’s traditional tolerance for its leaders’ off-duty activities and with the existing knowledge of the president's pastimes.

The taboo over public discussion of the sex lives of politicians was broken a decade ago. In 2001, Jean-Claude Lomond, a former chauffeur for Chirac, depicted him in a book as a prolific consumer of women in his Gaullist entourage. “To an almost sickening degree,” wrote Lomond, “Chirac has had party militants, secretaries, all those with whom he spent five busy minutes.” The love life of Chirac was also itemised in Sexus Politicus, a best-selling book on the love lives of politicians published last year.

The President has attracted more headlines this week with an emotional television tribute that he paid to Bernadette on Sunday. “She has constantly taught me that there were people who were suffering and this has to be taken into account,” he said.

Bernadette, who has emerged in recent years as a force in her own right, said that it was rare to hear such praise from him. “It is the first time that my husband has brought up . . . our life as a couple.”

Mrs Chirac tells Pean that she put up with a lot but always abided by her family's rule that divorce was unacceptable. "He was very handsome... Women have always run after him. He was very charming, a real killer. You know how many women run after men in power. That's what it's like and you have to realise it." 

On other matters: Chirac says in the book that he regretted neglecting his family as he pursued his career. His wife had devoted herself to the family and in particular managing Laurence, their 48-year-old elder daughter, who has suffered from severe anorexia, has made suicide attempts and lives in care.

“There is no point in denying it . . . it has been the drama of my life,” Chirac says. “I had a daughter who was intelligent and pretty, and who was hit by mental anorexia when she was 15.” Their other daughter, Claude, is her father’s closest adviser.

While Chirac says how much he admired Mitterrand, he voices contempt for the haughty Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, the former president whom he served as Prime Minister from 1974-76. 

He gives a mixed review to Nicolas Sarkozy, the former protégé who has taken over the leadership of his Union for a Popular Majority and is the favourite to win the presidency. Sarkozy is talented but too liberal and pro-American, he says. Chirac also expands on his dislike for the bullying nature of the US. The 2003 Iraq invasion was an example. “I told [President] Bush 36 times that he was committing a monumental error,” says Chirac.

More later when the book appears.   

Comments

[Frank Schnittger]

"President Félix Faure died in office in action with a mistress in 1899"

Really Charles. This is a family newspaper!
For a country not concerned with the private lives of its public citizens, they sure seem to be writing a lot of books about it!

Bernadette seems to be taking it all very stoically, and how do all his former flings feel about being called not very important?

Not very charming really… There is something to be said for the British 'stiff upper lip' about that sort of thing: All very well to do it, but to talk about it to all and sundry afterwards? How very common.

Well might France Inter radio scold you for your Anglo-Saxon fascination with such trivial matters. What is The Times coming to!

[Antoine Cuny]

S´il y a une chose que les Hommes politiques étrangers doivent envier à la France, c´est bien la tolérance du peuple à l´égard du libertinage de certains de ses dirigeants. "Le peuple aime à savoir que le roi se porte bien" disait LouisXIV. Un homme qui bande est un homme qui a la Gaule!

[Dominique]

Felix Faure is positively famous for this reason. The more a man has mistresses, the more healthy he is. Clinton would have reelected lifelong in France! I hope Segolène will behave the same way with who ever she wants in order to keep the tradition alive !

[MCD]

The subservient woman. Detestable! Just another symptom of a 'nanny state'.
And I almost tossed up my breakfast after reading his wife describe him as handsome and charming. Surely, there are Frenchman more deserving. No doubt about it, France and the US are vastly different. And we couldn't be happier.

[MCDofUSA]

One more thing.
Why do the French take pride in the sexual escapades of their leaders? Hasn't anyone told them it is human nature? It doesn't take wisdom, intelligence, etc. Only they would find a common practice such an 'admirable accomplishment'

[Edward Johns]

Would the tacit approval / admiration for extra-marital adventures on the part of French political leaders be the same were the affairs homosexual ones ?

[Actu75]

Where was it first said or written the French were not concerned with the private life of their public citizens? At the time of Madame de Montespan or of Madame de Maintenon? France Inter scolding might have to do less with concern than with an apparent obsession slightly likley to undervalue "other matters". But compared to the "qui baise qui?" who cares after all about how many times how many leaders should have told Bush he was committing a monumental error?

[rocket]

Oye! Oye! This is a message to all over testosteroned men who are looking to get married. Marry a French girl. they don't ask a lot of questions.

[Ade]

Heard J.C on tv the other day complaining about the french problems of penetrating exterior markets.
Doesn't seem to be a problem 4 J.C. Maybe he's being a bit hard-on himself.

[M. Fernandez, San Francisco, California]

Five minutes is bragging for Chirac. He is known as "Mr. Three Minutes".

Frank, "how do all his former flings feel about being called not very important?" I think they figured that out when he was leaving the room and they hadn't finished undressing.

[Dominique]

MCDOUSA : so we should not take pride of human nature? having sex does not take wisdom, intellignece etc..? we are definitly different then. I strongly believe that sex is an admirable accomplishment and I will let you know one more thing about Chirac : as he was providing advises to Roseline Bachelot (former woman minister - not the best i have to confess), he told her that while campaigning, a candidate should never waste an occasion to :
1/ go to the bathroom whenever possible
2/ eat something whenever possible
3/ have sex whenever an opportunity arises.

She was telling this on television, everyone laught, including her, and it was very good that way.

As for the extra-marital adventures for homosexuals, they can't happen because french law does not allow gay marriage yet. Unfortunatly.

Come on! relax! this is just sex!

[Maggie G]

Wow, Mr Bremner, that's certainly a gorgeous picture of Mr Chirac! I could almost fall for him myself!

I have never before seen such a stunning picture of him. I wonder what year it was taken.

You certainly do manage to find excellent illustrating photos for all your topics.

You should try to do a story about Arielle Dombasle (or French women in general) (or her husband, Bernard Henri Levy) and then you could use that lovely nude picture of her on the cover of this week's Match. She's about the same age as Ségo, isn't she? I wonder if she votes right or left.

She might be just what Ségo needs to get her campaign back on track!

[Edward Johns]

Just sex Dominique ?
Blasphemy to an Englishman !

[rocket]

Dominique

"I strongly believe that sex is an admirable accomplishment"

I'd love to see your face when you catch your spouse (partner) in bed with another partner

[Maggie]

For the first time Rocket made me laugh, well spotted & we can see where you are coming from !
As for women wanting Chirac , we know there is no accounting for taste, he makes my flesh crawl & just think of the foul tobacco smell of the man, as he is reputed to be a heavy smoker.
Obviously the women who succumbed managed to suffer 3 minutes of this man's. ' arrogance' to bag a trophy for their own memoirs

[Helena Frith Powell]

The French don't have the same prurient attitude to sex as the English or the Americans. They see it as a normal function, almost something to be encouraged. One French woman told me recently that she thought it was good that Chirac was having lots of sex as men who don't have sex "are terrible". The French found it inconceivable that there could be such a fuss about President Clinton having a blowjob in the Oval office. Of course he lied about it. Wouldn't everyone?
Maybe the world would be a safer place if Bush stopped praying and invading countries and instead, developed a healthy interest in sex.

www.helenafrithpowell.com

[Dominique]

well said Helena! stop praying, have sex! in other words, "make love, not war". The 70's motto. Souvenirs souvenirs...there was nothing like the 70's! Isn't it obvious that the more you pray, the more you go to war?

As for Rocket to see my face when I catch my spouse (partner) in bed with another partner, don't worry : i choose descent modest partners who have a "jardin secret". Transparency and honesty are so boring! (français jusqu'au bout des ongles)

[christopher muir]

The Profumo affair in the sixties caused intelligence agencies to be fearful of ministers succumbing to potential "honey traps." Christine Keeler was considered a security risk - she was bedding a Russian at the same time as seeing John Profumo. I imagine that intelligence agencies everywhere know well the libidinous habits of their senior politicians. It must be quite a game that goes on between them, whether it be in the USA, UK or France. Perhaps they are able to reach some advance understanding with the spooks. ("We'll check the young lady out, Monsieur le President.") Clinton must envy French tolerance.

[Edward Johns]

"The French don't have the same prurient attitude to sex as the English or the Americans. They see it as a normal function, almost something to be encouraged"
Sex reduced to the level of a bodily function--a bit like going to the lavatory ?
Can it be that the Anglo-Saxon attitude to sex is one of "Quality" as opposed to a French one of "Quantity"? Bit of a reversal there if so.

[Julio]

To quote president Clinton :
"Free Your Mind ... And Your Ass Will Follow"

[Bel Ami]

Would the tacit approval / admiration for extra-marital adventures on the part of French political leaders be the same were the affairs homosexual ones ?

It is. Jack Lang, former Culture and Education minister, is well known for his homosexual tendencies, though he is married and have two daughters.

Jean-Claude Gaudin, the mayor of Marseilles, also is a homosexual to popular knowledge, but never had to admit it publicly.

We think it's private matters, and has nothing to do with the competence (or incompetence) of our leaders.

This thing about sex and love in France does rather remind me of Sons and Lovers. The modern British myth? culture? seems to be founded on the deeply romantic, chivalrous notion that man and woman must meet & match off happily for all time. DH Lawrence had his own views on the subject but my personal experience would suggest that for romantic & sexual satisfaction I should turn to the Italian half of my personality.

[Edward Johns]

"We think it's private matters, and has nothing to do with the competence (or incompetence) of our leaders."
I may be assuming too much here but is there not an understanding of fidelity or loyalty in sexual relationships? (perhaps I'm old-fashioned?) By extension , surely someone who will cheat on his wife / partner will think nothing of cheating the idiot taxpayers ?

[Dominique]

What does cheating on his wife / partner has to do with cheating the idiot taxpayers ? More, what does cheating the idiot taxpayers /citizen has to do with being a good president?

Please note that all presidents do not cheat, but that good presidents do.

[peter kinsley]

Despite the British people becoming less prurient about sex, it is the British Press who hitch up the crinoline skirts with their shock, horror over any well known persons indulging in the perfectly normal business of sexual intercourse. When Edith Piaff published her memoirs she absolutely refused to be printed in any Anglo-Saxon newspaper or magazine, losing and not caring about sales in Britain, America, Australia, South Africa etc, saying that these people could never undrstand her and would always scorn her because he had been brought up in a brothel and treated the inmates as friends, not freaks. The French attitude to sex is that of grown-ups; the British attitude is that of shocked children.

[Peter Mason]

So far all this blog has shown me is that the differences in philosophy and viewpoint that separate societies are more profound and more fundamental than the commonalities. Probably as well that the 1950's suggestion of Anglo-French union went down the pan!

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

No one has (so far) used the phrase "Vive la Difference", and of course the Brits and the French are totally different. Maggie's comment on 14 Feb is that M. Chirac is "gorgeous" and his film star photograph (where did you find it, Monsieur Bremner?)is "stunning". Even with his faded good looks, Chirac is keeping various ladies happy with his visits and had his chauffeur to push his shirt tail in (such loyalty), but did the Brits notice how he attends on women? How he was the first to stoop and pick up a lady's handkerchief at a public gathering? Gallantry is the word, and Frenchmen have it in spades. They also see sexual (and monetary) activity as parts of the spoils of office. Any man who can spend a million pounds on food and drink for his home, and service three ladies a day can only have the admiration of the French nation and the jealousy of the puritanical Brits.

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

P.S. Romeo...Casanova...Don Juan...Chirac...???

[Maggie G]

Peter Kinsley,

I hope you realize that my coments about the 'gorgeous' picture of Mr Chirac were just kidding, and that I am NOT one of the ladies who would be 'kept happy' by a visit from him!!

If you've been reading this blog for awhile, you will know that I've been highly critical of Chirac, and have made previous comments about the appropriateness of the pictures of him illustrating various blogs by Mr Bremner.

And anyway, I am neither British nor French, so don't fit into your "Vive la Difference" model!

You didn't make any comment on my idea that Ségo could join Arielle Dombasle in her nude show at the Crazy Horse in order to get her campaign back on track. Since no one disputes the fact that Ségo was chosen for her feminine qualities, surely this would be the best method for her to shine again.

On a more serious note, Dominique's comment that not all presidents cheat the idiot taxpayers, but that good ones do is a French / anglo saxon difference far greater than the different reactions concerning the sex lives of leaders. Although you can't really take Dominique seriously, as he seems to enjoy being provacative and nit-picking more than arguing seriously, it's true that many French people don't seem to care at all about money going into politicians' pockets.

I find this attitude unfathomable.

[Edward Johns]

"Please note that all presidents do not cheat, but that good presidents do." Is this droit de seigneur then? At least the peasant classes have a chance to make useful trade of their daughters (and sons?) with the incumbent aristocrats this way. Very democratic.

[Dominique]

Edward : there must be a vocabulary problem on my side. I thought "cheating" ment "not telling the truth". So, nothing to do with children trade or democracy. Probably translation issue...

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

Mimi: "Cherie - youll never guess who called upon me today. He's making quite a habit of it. I'll whisper ..."
Frou Frou: "Non! Really? The man's insatiable. How long did he stay?
Mimi: "Seven minutes, but two to undress."
Frou Frou: "Quelle cad! He is inconsiderate. I hate him!"
Mimi: "Jealousy, darling! He WAS being considerate. He never keeps his chauffeur waiting more than ten minutes."

[rocket]

Dominique

The 70's were over a long time ago. Souvenirs..Souvenirs. Johnny's moved on. Too bad you haven't.

[Dominique]

Rocket : no I haven't changed. I still prefer sex to war and global warming! To bad you have.

Maggie, "it's true that many French people don't seem to care at all about money going into politicians' pockets" ? Come on, do you really believe that french politicians "cheat" more than others? Open your eyes, guess who is the british prime minister yet? who is the american president? please grow up a little. I prefere politicians who cheat their partner rather than politicians that go to war with no reason. It is obvious that some lies are worse than other, and sex lies are definitly my favorits!

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

An Englishman in a train compartment with three Frenchmen asks: What is the real meaning of savoir faire?
1. "You go home early from work, catch a man in bed with your wife. It is the famous Shagger Chirac. You say nothing. You back out, go for a coffee and upon your return, say nothing. Le vrai savoir-faire!"
2. "Pas exactement: you go home,you are surprised, you say Excusez moi, Monsieur le President, please continue, and you leave immeiately. Toujours la politesse, you see? Upon your return you say nothing.
3. "Non, non, the true meaning is a similar situation, and you say please continue. IF HE CONTINUES that is LE VRAI SAVOIR-FAIRE,"
Englishman: "We have it in England, too, you know. A Geordie coal-miner on his way to work tells his pals: "That Gazza! Wot a footbaaler! A bliddy genius! If Aah went back hyem noo and catched him in bed with the wife ... Aah'd tek him a cuppa tea!"

[Maggie G]

"Maggie, "it's true that many French people don't seem to care at all about money going into politicians' pockets" ? Come on, do you really believe that french politicians "cheat" more than others?"

Dominique, what is the connection between my remark and yours? Who said anything about which politicians cheat the most? The discussion was about the public attitude towards cheating, whether sexual cheating, or 'cheating the idiot taxpayer'.

If you can't remember what you were talking about, you should go back and read over your last message before starting a new one.

[Peter Mason]

Dominique,

You asked "What does cheating on his wife / partner has to do with cheating the idiot taxpayers ? More, what does cheating the idiot taxpayers /citizen has to do with being a good president?" From the British (and probably the general 'anglo-saxon') perspective the key thing about anybody in public office is that they be responsible, cheating either wife or taxpayer proves that they aren't and therefore they are viewed as unfit to hold office. [Currently the head of the DPP ...the criminal prosecutors office over here...is being lambasted for an affair with a young lawyer for just this reason.]

The thinking British public takes it as a given that, like salesmen,
politicians always distort the truth to their own advantage.

Yes, there are many magazines in the UK which pander to interest in celebrity sexual adventures but you'll find that these are viewed as acceptable so long as the celebrity concerned is in an 'airhead' profession such entertainment, sport, fashion or minor Royalty. If they hold a supposedly responsible role then controversy is triggered.

[rocket]

Dominique

Speaking about the sexual prowess of the French man if I may. May I? A while back I read a very interesting book called Verdict on Vichy by Michael Curtis and in this book the author stated that a non negligeable percentage of French women took German lovers during the occupation because the French women felt that the French men were not manly enough having undergone "une cuisante defaite" in 1940.

These are not my words but the words of a published author.

I really do apologize bringing this up as I know that the period of the occupation in France was very "douloureux" But, in my opinion and just in my own humble opinion "cher ami" You may be masking something here and it may have something to do with this smug and superior attitude that you take towards sex, cheating, secret gardens, who gives a damn about state sponsored tax rip offs and what have you.

[Dominique]

Who is taking superior attitude toward sex? What is the connexion between "having sex with who ever you want" and "superior attitude? can please someone explain?

I have never spocken about any kind of "sexual prowess of the French man" as i strongly believe there is none at all. That's would be stupid chauvinism of the worst kind (remember our former unforgettable women prime minister edith cresson who claimed that english men were gay because of public schools, what a shame... about the same kind of stupid prejudism as Rocket just had)

I just say that there is nothing to be ashamed of when politicians have sex with who ever they want. This is not a scandal because there is no scandal in sex between adults! Power is sexy, and powerfull people are therefore surrounded by women who like power. Who can blame them? Charism is often seduction. Same on the other way around with women -femme à quequette - as we call them. Chirac's wife said last week that she was tempted once to leave him, but he advised her not to, because live would not be so fun for her away from him! And she admitted that being the wife of a president is a unique opportunity and stayed. People (anglosaxon?) often believe they should know why people stick together. Love and marriage are complex affairs, and sex is only part of it. What ever the reason people get married is theirs. Give them a break!

The shame in France, is the unbelivable "sex party" between politicians and journalists. All top journalists are living with politicians (Shoenberg, drucker, ockrent, even Arlette Chabot with a women minister - that's for Edwards;-))) who hide behind the private sex doctrine to protect their own "conflit d'intérêt" (sorry i don't have the english word). That is a real issue and explains why media & politics get each other corrupted.

But please, give us a break with sex! that's what we've left!

[Maggie G]

Dominique,

You behave on this blog like a person jumping up and down on a trampoline. Every time you come down you say something that has no relation to what you said the previous time. We never know what will pop out of you next.

Perhaps you really don't understand what "cheating the idiot taxpayers" means. It doesn't mean 'lying to them about who you've been sleeping with'. It means taking their tax money, which is supposed to be used for fixing roads and building schools and hospitals and so on, and putting it into a Swiss bank account and then running off to South America with it, like Jacques Medecine, the mayor of Nice did, for example.

According to you, not all politicians cheat the idiot taxpayers this way, but the good ones do.

I admit you're not the only one who thinks this way. When you mention Jaques Medecine running off to South America with millions in his pocket, a lot of people down here say, "So what. He was a good mayor." I don't think you'd find many anglo-saxons thinking this.

And when Jacques Medecine died, he was brought back to Nice for a triumphant funeral.

You, after making your surprising statement "What does cheating the idiot taxpayers / citizen have to do with being a good president?" have continued bouncing around as if you never said it at all.

[MCD]

Just curious. Do people in France say vows when they marry or is that an Anglo-Saxon thing?

[nada, Paris]

Maggie G comments on Dominique:
"You behave on this blog like a person jumping up and down on a trampoline."
I am french, as dominique (I suppose). Sorry, for me also you are speaking no sense, with some kind of absurd statments and arguments, and inappropriate parallelisms. For this reason, I could also state that I feel you are jumping up and down on a trampoline. Maybe a problem of misunderstanding between different cultures and approaches ?

To Mr Rocket:
I don't know how Michael Curtis drew the conclusion that a "non neglictable percentage of french women" prefered German because they were some kind of "real men", stronger and victorious, and so on . I would be very pleased to see the scientific background of all this, really, lol.
Moreover, and it is connected, the myth of the "superior man" (german, but also scandinavian and anglo-saxon) was indeed very spread in the western world before the world war II, thanks to the respective scientifics of these countries, and was reinforced during the wartime by the victory of the nazi, all over europe. It played a role.
But you can still find nowadays similar arguments. I have seen on blogs in the net many messages from american and sometimes british guys stating that french women would need to experience some "real men" (some american men in fact most of the time), men that were able to win a war, instead of "inferior men"/"surrender monkeys". They were no jokes, the messages were expressed in the context of very agressive attitudes and bellicism towards France. Waaoohh, how refreshing to be back more than sixty years ago to the myth of the "superior men"!! Personnaly I find it disgusting.

[Dominique]

Yesss Nada! (please "anglosaxon" people do not read what follows, you might be horrified)

Nada, would you accept a date/cofee with a proud "surrender monkey"? and maybe more if we want? Thank God, there will be no "anglo saxon" lawyer around, as it will be in Paris!

[rocket]

Nada,

I'm not talking about the nuts out there pushing the cheese eating surrender monkey bit. I'm talking about a respectable published author. Buy the book and read it. I am quoting what he said.

As for scientific proof, look at what your country did to these women at liberation. If they didn't kill them, they shaved their heads and paraded them through the streets.

Once again, not me but the French cable channel documentaries made by French people.

As for Dominique. Your immaturity comforts me in knowing that as in my case in the past and for those young anglos who "débarquent" en france.

We can still take our pick

[Tim Lloyd]

Nobody seems to be questioning the remark made by Edward Johns on 14th Feb, that an adulterer would find it easier to cheat idiot taxpayers. By extension, that adulterers should not be given positions of power, which I find rather naive. If I had to elect two people, I'd elect the person I thought most competent and/or the person more closely aligned with my own views on how the country should be run. Adultery (or not) doesn't come into it.

[jorge]

Having seen a bit late all this ''superior men'' stuff:
Let's forget about myths, stereotypes and bestseller's authors, and let's talk about facts.

Where do British, French, German, Dutch and even American women go for ''girls only'' holidays?

Spain, of course.

So we can safely that they have solved this question by ''voting with their feet''.

Kind of.

[nada]

To Rocket:
"I'm talking about a respectable published author. Buy the book and read it. I am quoting what he said"

I didn’t really intend to attack the author, I was maybe a little nervous (the myth of “real men” declined in nationalistic terms makes me very nervous) : I didn’t read the book, and after having sent my answer, I was really asking myself why and with what kind of intention he made this remark .. It’s always dangerous to quote some “facts” like this without precising the (possible) interpretations of the author. As far as I know, the idea that German men (and women) were superior was very spread at this period, specially in the occupied countries thanks to propaganda and the military german victory, and the “fact” quoted by the author just reflect that, in my opinion. But I was highly disturbed that you felt the obligation to quote these (possibly established) past representations - at a very particuliar period of french history - to discuss the actual relations between sex and politics, or attitudes of French towards sex and couple, in contemporary France. Opinions and representations are, first not reality of course, and second highly fluctuate. I still don’t see the point, and I suspected some kind of nastiness. But ok, sorry if I misinterpreted what you said, and if I don’t understand your point.

"As for scientific proof, look at what your country did to these women at liberation. If they didn't kill them, they shaved their heads and paraded them through the streets."
The treatment of french women is no scientific proof for French women prefering German men because French men were not manly enough !It’s not either proof for your own statement ! (that is: "this (french) smug and superior attitude that you take towards sex, cheating, secret gardens, who gives a damn about state sponsored tax rip offs and what have you").
Sorry I don’t see the link … really…

(Sorry for my poor english ... it's my second language if it may be an acceptable excuse !)

[nada, Paris]

Ok, I think I get your point, Rocket, finally.

You think I am contesting the fact that "a non negligeable part of french women took german men for lovers", maybe ? It didn't come to my mind really. as you said, it's well known nad established.

What I am contesting is the explanation, that "a non negligeable part of them took german lovers BECAUSE they behaved more manly". As I have explained before, it wouldn't surprise me, it was a very common opinion at the time, and in all occupied countries I think. But I have seen also testimonies of women who made it in order to find food for their baby or for their family (food was a great problem during the occupation)or in order to help some relatives to get out from a concentration camp. There may be a lot of explanations, as much as the individual situations were different. And really I have no idea which one was the most common... and I am a little bit surprised the author just mentionned the first one....

(I apologize for my very long and maybe insistent posts, I am always very talkative, fortunately I am limited by the language...)

[Charles F.]

To correct and complete what was said a bit earlier, the nickname (allegedly) given to Mr. Chirac was not "Mr. Three Minutes" but "Trois minutes douche comprise" ("3 minutes including shower time").

Maybe a rumor created by the opposition, who knows? And, as a frenchman, i add: who cares?

[peter kinsley www.peterkinsley.com]

"Mr. 3 minutes including shower time" was lucky to have a chauffeur driven car in Paris. I recall the Jean-Paul Belmondo film when a lady asks him back to her apartment and he thinks about it,leaning on the bar, and says: "I would have to drive there and find a parking place, then walk up all those stairs and undress and make love to you and then take a shower and get dressed and walk downstairs, find my car and drive back here and I will have lost my parking place. No, I do not think so, cherie..."