Vienna goes quiet for Bush

It is a hot and steamy morning in Vienna and commuters on the Maria Hilferstrasse were venting their wrath at George W Bush as I walked by. A gaggle of teenaged school pupils passed with anti-US banners under close police supervision and some jammed drivers joined in the chant: "Go away Bush. We don't want your war".

The US President is in the Austrian capital.  He has landed with full entourage for just a few hours for his annual session with European Union dignitaries. The diplomatic mood is improving and the talks will help advance EU-US actions over Iran, the Middle East and North Korea and may help over the blocked world trade round. But you have to wonder whether the brief presidential drop-by -- before a one-day visit to Hungary -- is worth the vast logistical effort.

I have covered summits for years, going back as far as the last US presidential visit to Vienna -- by Jimmy Carter to sign the SALT II nuclear arms pact with the Soviet Union in 1979.  Since those years,  the security operation around summits, wherever they are, has expanded geometrically.  By far the biggest attend the movements of POTUS, as the White House calls the President of the United States. Since September 2001, these have reached absurd proportions. The centre of Vienna has been locked down since Bush's arrival on Air Force One last night. Streets are closed to traffic and parks and squares are locked shut.  Bomb disposal squads are checking suitcases. The unusual quiet makes it feel like a prettier version of Soviet Moscow on the morning of the old November parades.

Military helicopters are hovering over the Hofburg, the old Imperial Palace, where Bush meets the current commanders of Europe: Wolfgang Schussel, Austrian Chancellor and curent President of the Union Council, and Jose-Manuel Barroso, President of the EU Commission.

We are working alongside in the usual vast press centre inside a cordon of about 2,000 police. To enter means penetrating three cordons, with the right credentials. At two of them, they searched all my bags and asked me to show that my computer and mobile phone were real. Dogs then sniffed them, along with the laundry in my overnight bag. Across the lawns in the beautiful Palace square, a few authorised demonstrators are milling around.

This is not criticism of Austrian hospitality, just a lament to excessive precautions that the Americans impose on their hosts. In the Cold War days, neutral Austria was sympathetic to the United States,  whose post-war diplomacy had helped save them from the Soviet occupation that smothered their neighbours. In 2006, Austrian opinion of the United States has reached a low ebb. According to the Pew Center survey of European attitudes this week, two thirds of Austrians have a negative view of the Americans. This was close to the level of the most anti-American nation, Spain, with only 23 percent approval. Not surprisingly, the USA is most popular in Britain, where 56 percent hold a positive view. This is not to say that the Austrians have turned off the bits of America that they like. Desperate Housewives is the television hit of the year here.

The sources of old Europe's discontent with America -- Iraq, the Guantanamo Bay prison and CIA "renditions" of prisoners, are being brought up by the EU side today, but not too heavily. Hans-Gert Pottering, chief of the EPP, the European Parliament's conservative bloc, put it: "We need to make it clear that we are friends and partners of America. But because we're friends, we also need to make it clear to them that Guantanamo is not compatible with our values and must be closed."

If I may be personal, that surely is the view of most pro-Americans. I love the States, have lived and worked there and my three children are US citizens. It is sad that many of the actions and the sanctimonious language of Bush -- his "War on Terror" and preaching about tyranny -- are in conflict with what we admire about America.

Bush will have a friendlier welcome later today when he drops into Budapest to mark the 50th anniversary of the uprising against the Soviets. The Hungarians are still fonder of Uncle Sam than the Austrians.

UPDATE: (for full version, see Times Online homepage)

Bush pulled out the stops to be conciliatory after the summit, telling the Europeans that he understood their misgivings over his policies. Europe did not understand the force of the 2001 attacks on the United States, he said. "For Europe, September 11 was a moment. For us, it was a change of thinking..." Those poll figures depicting America as the biggest threat to world peace were absurd, he said. "We are a transparent democracy. We debate things in the open." He knew that he was unpopular in Europe, but history would judge his decision over Iraq to be just, he insisted. At the same time, he wanted to close the Guantanamo base prison as quickly as possible. "I told the Europeans of my deep desire to end the programme, " he said.  Schussel, the Austrian Chancellor, came to his rescue, telling Austrians not to be naive about the need to fight terrorism. Schussel, who was born in 1945, said that he would never forget that the United States had fed and cared for his country after the war.

Comments

[Kathryn Platzer]

Interesting blog and summed up very well the anger of the Viennese (particularly) of having the city literally hijacked by the Bush visit. I was walking my dog in the Prater yesterday evening and couldn't get home on foot because of all the streets being blocked. The number of times I heard it said: "Dieser blöder Bush" and I had an etymological epiphany. Is blöd (stupid), I wonder, the Anglo-Saxon antecedent for bloody? It sounds almost the same when you're cross!!

[James Asbury]

Bush lives in fear when he travels, bravery is not one his his strong points.

[Deborah MacDonald]

Wow, and all of us over here in the United States are sleepless with worry over what the Austrians think about our country and President Bush. Europeans can continue to hate us, and probably will, until the next time they want something from us. What a bunch of ingrates. I wonder why America even bothers with them.

[Kathryn Platzer]

Europeans don't "hate" the United States or the Americans. On the contrary, most like your country and its people. Most, however, take exception to the somewhat dubious motives for going to war in Iraq, to being lied to by Bush and Blair about the existence of weapons of mass destruction (the original excuse for commiting troops to that country), and to the United States' belief that it can invade a country without permission from the United Nations. Europeans also in general believe that Americans are not as well informed as they should be on world affairs because the media there is increasingly state-controlled.

[Ryan Cursons]

America's time will come, Europe is rising to new heights in prosperity, it's only a matter of time before Europe leaves the US in their wake.

[K Clark]

It sounds like the only things you "admire about America" are its crap television programmes.

While I don't want to sound too much like an apologist for Bush, it seems to me that fighting tyranny and terrorists are precisely the things that America stands for.

[Bob]

Deborah said it well.

The Europeans only like America when it's convient for their security and safety.

Like, from Soviet Russia, and Hitler. Than again, wasn't it the Austrians who quickly threw themselves into their Hitler's open arms, while the British & American's gave their lives to liberate them??? Than the USA protected them all those years from the Soviets taking their nation over.

What a laugh riot joke, these Austrian's and French are

It appears, that when the Muslem terrorist's want to slaughter and torture innocent people, including military members, that's ok. "BUT", let the US do anything about it, than that upsets the poor Eurpeans. Yea right? let the terriorists do what they like. Let's give them fancy, nice treatment. Let them torture and kill us, nuke us. Let's just not do anything terrible to them.

Well, I like other good hard working American's are sick of the Europeans bashing the USA. If you don't like this nation, than go your own way. Fight your own wars, and keep the Russians at bay yourselves.

Europe, just remember "one nightmarish" thing. The day will come when those terrorists, you want to protect so well, and bash us over. Will, perhaps have a nuclear device which they will use against your nations, and our nation. Than what are you going to do? Ask for the USA to help you bury your dead children? I think not, as we'll be busy burying our's.

I agree with Deborah 100%, and I say "GO TO THE DEVIL"!! Europe.

I wish American could become Isolatist,100%. But that's not going to happen anytime soon, unfortunately.

[James]

The Euros are so two-faced. If Bush didn't come to Vienna, they'd all be wimpering about his 'arrogance.' Now that he's there, they're wimpering about the inconvenience of it. The only common thread? Wimpering.

Of course Bush has lots of security! There are thousands of Islamofanatics who would try to kill him (along with trying to destroy American cities with nuclear bombs). If European security is so great, why do Islamofanatics find it so easy to blow up people on London and Madrid subways?

Europe's losing its civilization; it's depopulating itself; it can't afford to pay its aging population what it's promised; it's becoming Islamicized; it's in full appeasement mode with Muslim terrorists; - and it's going to take a valiant, valiant stand over terrorists being incarcerated at Guantanamo!

Here's the truth. Guantanamo will be closed so that the little Euro weenie appeaseniks can save face - and say they stood up to power - and that they actually accomplished something in this world. How pathetic - begging for a bone to be thrown to them while ignoring all the problems which are going to destroy them.

James

[Theo]

Every single city Bush travels to including London gets the same treatment - lock-down, excessive demands by the secret service, protests moved out of the way, total congestion. If his body guards dont get given full immunity to shoot anyone as they see fit its a good indication that that country is 'higher-up' on the friends list to be able to deny such a request. If there are no anti-Bush protests then its very likely that the host country is a 3rd world dictatorship and if the police shoot the protesters it means that the country is really sucking up to America. What happens during a Bush visit is therefore a great political acid test.

[Denise Denovan-Jones]

In reply to D MacDonald
Not that old chestnut, is that the best comment you can come up with. Honestly, if you cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Your own people will thank you for it and so will the rest of us.

[Jonathan Finkle]

Some of us Americans do lose sleep over what the rest of the world thinks of us. It is foolish to be too terribly provincial and snub the rest of the world.

[Iain Dobson]

Not all Europeans hate the US however you do have to ask how the quite remarkable transformation of anti-American sentiment lies with a particular individual: POTUS. In reality I believe it is the American public who are to blame for allowing the media to control their information which allowed for the current state that they are in. I think America was great, but I wont be going back for a number of years till they get themselves sorted out. One can only hope they have not gone too far to turn back the damage done.

I urge America to look at it's history books (ok, well, maybe our history books) and stop this insular "The world hates us but we don't care" because baby - one day, the knock will come to your door.

[Robert Marchenoir]

Now it seems some simplistic, two-dimensional Americans have discovered this blog. Give me British sophistication any time, even in this chav-infested era.

To these ignorant, cocksure poseurs, let me remind you that the Spanish are among the strongest opponents to the United States among Europe. Yet, they also happen to have been hit very hard, very recently, by islamist terrorism. Apparently, they do not seem to think that they "need" America in order to fight these terrorists, at least if "need" means approving anything and everything coming from these shores.

Also, for Europe, terrorism has been a familiar and bloody reality for decades. European police forces have a long record of succesfully fighting terrorists on their own soil, islamists, communists and others.

America essentially woke up to the menace on 9/11, and deluded itself into thinking that the proper answer was to wage a "war" against terrorism. Terrorism cannot be defeated through war. It needs long-term undercover police work, international co-operation (as opposed to bragging about countries you don't need) and appropriate foreign policies.

Arrogant American bloggers notwithstanding, United States authorities admit they owe a lot to the anti-terrorist French police with which they work hand in hand in the heart of Paris.

So please give me a break, and go read a few books and websites beyond CNN and Fox News, if you really care to understand a bit of what is happening outside your own gated community.

[Jim]

I was in London for Bush's last visit and was told not to look out of my office window incase US security though we were potential assassins. Since then there have been multiple visits by other heads of state, none of which have had similar paranoia. Is it any wonder the US has an identity problem when they insist on disrupting peoples lives for their own selfish needs?

[James]

"To these ignorant, cocksure poseurs, let me remind you that the Spanish are among the strongest opponents to the United States among Europe. Yet, they also happen to have been hit very hard, very recently, by islamist terrorism."

---

Right - the same Spanish that rewarded the Madrid terrorists by doing exactly what those terrorists wanted them to do. Spain is just a big ole fat terrorist appeaser. It will end poorly for Spain or anyone who appeases evil (just like in World War II).

James

[James G]

As a Briton I am disgusted by some of the brianless anti-Americanite comments displayed here. You should be very ashamed of your ignorance and prejuidice. I too believe that the if the United States stands for anything it is opposition to totalitarianism and terrorism. Due to my nationality I am very aware of the siren nature of appeasement, but is was simply cowardice to appease the fascists and the communists and cowardice to try to appease the Islamo-Fascists.

I am Hungarian and all I can say to some of posters above that we are no longer interested in the Great European intellectual inventions, that is the Fascism and Marxism. You brought nothing else but death camps and gulags to this Continent.
Weren't for Reagan you would be still shooting people at the Berlin Wall and spewing bulshit while pounding the table with your shoe.
God Bless the States and Pres. Bush in Hungary.

[Edward Johns]

Xenophobia or what ! I (a Brit living in France)for one can understand US policies as regards security. Have the September 11th mass-murders been forgotten already ? Allright, for years the Irish Republican terrorist movement was largely funded with United States donations, that's politics for you. At the end of the day envy has to be behind the animosity displayed towards the worlds strongest nation, everyone hates whoever is at the top of the heap. Nobody is on Goliath's side in a conflict are they ? Would another Sarajevo style assasination (of President Bush) somehow help World peace ?

[Sandrine]

"We need to make it clear that we are friends and partners of America. But because we're friends, we also need to make it clear to them that Guantanamo is not compatible with our values and must be closed."

Well said.

By the way Mr Bremner, your posts are -as always- very interesting, but the people who come here to make some comments are definetely less congenial than before...
La rançon du succès ?

[Ken Wells]

They led America into believing that we were under an imminent threat of attack from Iraq. That mushroom clouds would appear on our shores if we did not move quick enough. Of course this was all lies. Because of these lies they rushed the troops into battle without the proper equipment or personnel. They clearly lied us into the war in Iraq and intentionally drew us away from the ‘war on terror’. Their PNAC (http://newamericancentury.org/index.html) desire for empire produced thousands dead, thousands more injured, billions stolen, a broken and destabilized Iraq and created themselves into the best recruiting tool the fundamentalists Islamic extremists have ever had. The whole administration seems to be guilty of treasonous type activity and likely war crimes for invading a country on false pretenses, intentionally using illegal and inappropriate weapons around civilian populations and misrepresenting our reasons for being there to the American public and the world.
President Bush is a uninformed figurehead doing the bidding of others while spreading the lies they struggle to teach him to annunciate. He's a terribly horrible president and he scares me. The Bush administration and the Republican leadership do not tolerate criticism very well. The whole either your with us are against us type of thing. The Republicans have been screaming that any public political dissent involving the war with Iraq or on terror is sedition. They are using the excuse that they believe this is giving aid and comfort to the enemy. As if we just kept our mouths shut the insurrection would just end and we would suddenly be victorious. Nonsense, they just want to behave dastardly at home and abroad and lie with impunity. They want the American people kept away from the truth and only witnessing smiling approving faces for anything coming from the Bush administration. Now that their polls are down and their getting backed into a corner the whole lot of them scares me even more. What do they have cooked up for us and the world next? I wonder to what extent they are willing to go to silence their opposition. The only reason that the nation hasn’t gone over totally to fascism is because of the half of America that refuses to go along with Neocon nonsense. Bush should be impeached. At the very minimum Congressional investigations should be started. But the Republicans will never allow that to happen.

[Rossman]

Hey Bob,

Before you go on an anti-Euro rant, take an English class. Your sorry posting symbolizes the state our pathetic American educational system. Get an editor and go read a few books. Your knee-jerk reactionary BS is an embarrassment to fellow Americans. If you don't know how to intelligently represent yourself in the global community, keep it to yourself. We aren't interested if we can't understand you.

[kurt hunt]

Deb, Bob and James, along with Bush, Guantanamo, and Abu Greb are our great national embarrasment. On behalf of the better educated, more civilized 50% of Americans who abhor Bush, I apologize to our European friends. Please be patient, and in the meantime, don't pull your punches when it comes to critizing Bush. Remember, 50% of us hate him at least as much as you do.

[David Mickelson]

Among the many faults with this article is the argument that the president's security isn't necessary. In fact, there are probably hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of people who would risk their lives to kill him. Ronald Reagan was shot but lived. John F. Kennedy was shot and died. We have lost four presidents to murder out of 43 in our history--a very dangerous job! Just last year in Georgia (the country) someone managed to get a live grenade within a few dozen feet of the president. In short, he wouldn't survive long without the security apparatus.

[MCD of USA]

Typical European whining and ignorance.
Typical anti-American stereotypes
Oh, and if there is more fuss when Bush is around, that would be because He is the President of the most powerful Nation in the World.

[D. MacDonald]

Ah yes, it's me again the "arrogant American". As far as "the same old chestnut", if it fits honey, it fits. Gee, I think this is also the first time in my life I've been called so many names! It's just like being in grade school again. Apparently you're only allowed to post here if you agree with Mr. Bremner and other readers who agree with him. Don't you allow free speech and observations on this site?

[DL]

Those savvy Europeans, they're so sophisticated and cosmopolitan. They're so worldly and peaceful human beings that they slaughtered each other like no one else in history during the last century. Forgive me for not knowing the exact figure but it seems to me that I once read the Euros killed 15 million of their own sophisticated kind and that was just during WWII. Now that is one peaceful and sophisticated accomplishment. Oh yes, and it took the unsophisticated Russians and the unsophisticated Americans to put a stop to the whole mess.

Yes we unsophisticated Americans must learn from the Europeans. We should learn how to slaughter millions because they are Jews or because they are Gypsies or because they are Catholic or because they have brown hair or… just because.

Yes the Euros have accomplished what no other people of the world have done, they have become so sophisticated that they are going to disappear from the face of the Earth, and they will be replaced by the Islamic hordes who are beginning to change the face of the continent. In a few years the white Euros will be bowing to Mecca 5 times a day, and as the Germans like to say, “Und you vill luf it”

The problem with the Europeans is that they have put themselves on this high horse not realizing that it is not a horse but an ASS.

[daniel]

One shouldnt confuse George bush with the US. Bush has been an idiot as president, alienating many, and being frank, invading the wrong countries (I would invade Iran and North Korea myself).

The US has been a force for good, when us Europeans, with the honorable exception of the U.K. caved in or embraced Hitler, caved in to the Soviets, the Americans provided strength.

To dislike Bush is understandable, but to dislike the Americans is ungrateful. and simply stupid. Lets face it we have weakened ourselves so much militarily that we couldnt even run bombing missions in serbia.

Europe has no answers to the terrorism problem - and one commentator who says we have successfuly dealt with is seriously misguided. Yes we have solved some issues, by giving them what they want, and then only as in northern ireland when at least some were willing to compromise. So if we had given Kuwait to Saddam, let the Palestinians destroy Israel etc the perhaps some might be satisfied. Of course then we would have to allow sharia law for muslims in europe, etc etc etc.

Finally it is true that the US has ignored us on occasion- and why not, we are weak, getting poorer, and increasingly of no consequence. Face it when you dont matter, you dont matter.

So I agree, I dont like George bush either, but does a weak aging protectionist europe really have anything to say. If I were the US, I would just make some soothing noises and ignore us - which might be what is happenning

[Flocon]

Comments as sophisticated and elaborate as those by Deborah and Bob certainly help to understand why the image of the US is so positive the world over...
Regarding terrorism, it may be interesting to remind them that France had its fair share of islamic terrorism in the 80'/90'. Perpetrated by Algerian militants sponsored by the Saudis -good friends of America- at a time when America and Britain (remember Londistan?) couldn't care less as long as France was the target... And some day they woke up and now they pretend to teach the whole world about how to fight terrorism...
Robert Marchenoir has it right: "Go read a few books and websites beyond CNN and Fox News"...

[Flocon]

One wonders if Daniel has ever heard of N. Chamberlain who certainly didn't cave in to Hitler. Or O.Mosley? The Prince of Wales?
Should the British engineers be thanked for being bright enough to have put the English channel between Albion and the Nazi Wehrmacht?
No tongue in cheek now: W. Churchill was a giant as compared to any American of his time. And the British people behaved bravely during these years. The Battle of Britain will forever be the finest hours of the British. All the more since they were alone at that time, the Yanks let them down until they were attacked themselves. Until then, they maintained good relations with Nazi Berlin. Brits are too forgiving toward their former colonials!

[Cactus]

All the books in the world ain't gonna help ya if ain't got no backbone.

[Hugh Kennedy]

While I do believe we were mislead over Iraq, Bush always said he wanted regime change - it was Blair who needed the self-defence argument more, and pushed it too far.

As to terrorism - I grew up outside Belfast through the 70s and 80s so I think I know something about living with it. I do think that the US has a lot to answer for with it's knee jerk reaction to 9/11, horrible as that was, and I do think the old saying "When the only tool you have is a hammer, all problems look like nails" applies.

If I have learned anything from growing up in NI, it is that even if you wiped out every islamic "terrorist" tomorrow, new ones would arise the following day if the grievances that motivate them are left unassauged, and each "terrorist" who dies becomes a "martyr" to the cause.

The US will learn that as the cost of the "War on Terror" mounts. Even Margaret Thatcher moved from letting hunger strikers die to negotiating the Anglo-Irish agreement, a step on the way to the imperfect Peace.

When the ten's of Billions become ten's of Trillions, and the problems at home are crying out for cash, the Americans will change their polices and realise as Europe learnt decades ago that you can't bludgeon your way to peace with armed strength - sometimes you have to compromise with those with you own blood on their hands.

Bush was wrong, but he and his cohorts have discredited their policies in the eyes of too many americans, let alone the rest of the world.

I believe this current spat with the US will blow over soon. Why? The rise of China and the unstoppable movement of the Economic center of the world to SE Asia.

In 50 years, Europe will be poor and old and looking at the new Economic and Military superpower in the East that owes nothing to Europe in terms of Civilisation, and remembers Europe as a source of pain and woe in the 19th and 20th Centuries.

We will need a powerful friend across the Atlantic. I just hope more people realise that before fools and the Politicians that pander to them poison Americans attitudes so much that they decide to leave Europe to rot in the poverty of it's beliefs.

[Curtis LeMay]

Funny, but I don't remember euros bitching' and moaning' when Bubba Clinton closed off streets and towns in euroland when he went to visit there.

I do, however, remember the same amoeba driveling the same bile when President Reagan when to visit.

Funny, that.

Guess what continentals? What you do ro don't think of our President don't mean squat to the average person on the street here. Heck, even the East and Left Coast "intelligentsia" couldn't give a toss, frankly.

Get over it.

[Frank L]

It's hilarious that people like DL, Bob, Deborah McDonald, and James are trashing the Europeans as ingrates, clueless, and worse -- and yet are religiously reading the Times of London! The definition of hypocrisy and two-facedness.

[James]

Old Europe is doomed, living in its socialism, to get as much out of the government as possible, having lost its Christian purpose, making abortion and sodomy virtues while failing to beget new children, tolerating the gradual and incessant takeover of society by Muslims, the erosion of the family, reveling in political correctness, where no truth can be stated for fear of offending someone, paying out in cash every month to retirees and health care plans a huge chunk of whatever the young ones manage to earn, destroying the will to work and invest, with freedoms of religion and speech under constant attack, which no longer is able to identify evil or muster the will to fight it, and where the huge Satan of the world is the United States (which rescued it, Europe, from three huge tragic idiocies in the 20th century [WWI, Nazism and communism].

All that can really rescue Old Europe is an embrace of Christianity - but Old Europe's inhabitants are now legions of the Brave New World, living for the self rather than the good - living for the retirement or welfare benefits, for late night porn on the TV, and for a month each year on the nude beaches of Spain.

There's just not much there anymore.

James

[Chris]

As an American and neither a clear cut liberal nor conservative, these are troubling times. I didn't vote for Bush, yet I will not stand in the street to bash the man out of respect for his office. I am appalled at the acrimony we receive from many Europeans. We as a nation have always loved Europe; they are the ancestors of most of us. No other group of nations receives the colective attention that we lavish out than does Europe. So many things we aspire to and hold dear are a result of our fascination with our homelands. When we want good food, we talk about Italian and French; love our german beer, copy the cultured manners of our great friend Britain. Certainly we eat hamburgers and frankfurters, our own creations, but they are laughed at as the most base of foods to even the poorest of us. When we move up in the world, only French wine will do, (even if california's is now better...in our mind its not as good, because its not European.) We seemingly love the social welfare of the Scandinavian countries, although I disagree with it myself. We rave about "Old World" Craftsmanship. The world spins around European culture in our country.

It is aggravating that Europeans should judge us so harshly when we pursue matters that they choose to ignore. What else are we expected to do, wait for the next conflict to escalate until its almost too late to win it?

Here is something that Europeans should chew on: Why does America have the most powerful military in the world today? You should know; it was built for you. European politics created it, and demand its use so often that we have had no choice but to keep a standing army of its kind. After the first great war, america demobilized its large army, because we didn't need it. After our own civil war, the army fell into disrepair, disregard, and dissolution, because we had little need for it for ourselves. After World War II, what else were we to do? The nations of Europe couldn't stand alone in the face of Soviet aggression. And we would never let our mentors, who we loved dearly despite their antagonism towards each other, suffer that alone. I have no problem with Europeans questioning our policies...we have pulled some boneheaded moves as of late, but I am aghast that so many so-called "peace-advocating" Europeans think it is perfectly okay to bash us continually for trying to correct mistakes that resulted of European colonialism. Contrary to many of your beliefs on our educational system, we have history books in America too, and apparently we are not the nation that repressed the middle east, the far east, india, French indo-china, Africa, the Dutch East Indies, and countless other third world nations. We are paying for our forebears' mistakes though, aren't we? The sins of the father writ large across an entire nation. Western Civilization that the middle easterners hate did not begin in america, did it? We are just the epitomy and seat of farthest expansion; we are the visage of the powerful white-faced western culture that dominated and exploited the world for the last 5 centuries. We had precious little to do with it, but guess who is hated for it?

Our best political move would be to embrace the South Americans as much as we can, as they are potentially a huge market for our goods and culture, and strategically, would make ideal allies. I would love an administration that made that its priority. Unfortunately we are tied to Europe through blood and history, and we will always reap the misery of that association. We bear it as reality, and we still love Europe as our mentors and fathers despite all her flaws and inflictions on us. It is a pity that she seldom extends us the same courtesy.

[Chad]

I have to take issue with K Clark's comment: "It sounds like the only things you "admire about America" are its crap television programmes." I think Mr. Bremner's criticisms of the US's recent behavior are justified and on the nose, and aren't unnecessarily harsh. I think it would be hard to accuse someone whose three children are US citizens of being anti-American! In fact, I remember reading Bremner's stories when he was posted in New York and DC, and always enjoyed the affectionate annecdotes about life in the US.

[Paul]

Amen Chris. Amen.

[Katherine Barlow]

I agree in general with the comments of the gentleman signing himself "Chris" at 2.07AM,(although one should not fail to condemn Islam for its hand in the misery of human history), but his mistaken remark about Californian wine can be used to illustrate a greater reality. The vines in California were originally brought there by European settlers. In the 19th century French vineyards were wiped out by disease and the French were forced to import vines that had developed for centuries in the California vineyards and had become strengthened by different, harsher natural circumstances and were consequently more resilient. Thus, all French wine today, whilst originally European, did get there via the New World! Perhaps that should be the salient point to remember. We, Europeans and Americans, are grafted to one another, replenish one another and yet grow in separate cultures. Whether the finished product, be it wine or ideas, is full-bodied and refreshing, depends upon how they are tended and upon some influences beyond human control.

[MCD of USA]

Frank L.

What is hilarious is you not knowing the definition of hypocrisy or two-facedness. Trashing Europeans and reading the Times are not relevent to each other.

[Eric Price]

Old Europeans like the Austrians live in a unrealistic world as they have supressed and forgotten a lot of the past and now the past 1945 neo-socialist governments have rapped them in cotten wool. On the other hand the Hungarians and other former occupied Soviet countries still remember the horrors and understand the USA. But the truth is that the War on Terror has changed the rules of war as it has done in every war since the Boar War. We Brits invented Concentration Camps, the Germans misued them and now the Americans are still using them. So what? Now its Christians against the Moslems and another Crusade. Back to the Future!

[Edward Johns]

Chris, your comments sum things up very well. It will be interesting to see any reasoned response to them.

[Jacob-USA]

America is simply applying a form of political science which is called Détente a French term meaning a relaxing or easing, which has been used in international politics since the early part of the century. Generally, it may be applied to any international situation where previously hostile nations not involved in an open war "warm up" to each other and threats de-escalate. If an opposing nation does not warm up, for example North Korea and Iran currently in the world’s eyes. Then America eventually will go to war with those nations, for example Germany and Japan who love are movies and music so much. Every country in the world has the right to cut off trade to America as we do to other countries, yet it all boils down to money. We find a group of people in a foreign country which we intend to control through trade. Then we hand them the keys to the countries and all the wealth and power that comes with it. If we don’t end up with the type of greedy people that we like and also agree in most of what we ask of them, then we hand the keys over again to a new group of people. It’s the American way. 1% of America owns 50% of all the stocks. At the same time an average job in America starts out at 6 dollars an hour, which is barely enough to even pay for the cheapest apartment, not including the rest of life expenses, like food, gas and etc.
Why does the rich need so much and the poor so little? Example Europeans tax the rich up to 65% of their profit and America only 33%-35% including Bill Gates.
Why does America want to grow so fast at the expense of almost 80% of its citizens?
40% of Americans live check to check with nothing left over
Another 40% of Americans have repos, foreclosures and other forms of extreme financial problems
Only 20% can buy what ever they want, when ever they want
In America you are only consider unemployed for three to four months then it’s your fault for being unemployed and you’re not counted as unemployed anymore. That’s why we have an unemployment rate of 4-6%.
This is what America is spreading to your door step if it is not already there!
In my opinion it’s just another form of slavery, but now the masters are richer, more powerful and greedier than ever before. Yet humans as a whole are happy with what master is providing, so we say thank you for the left overs that falls off their plates and not ask how it came about and at what cost. Not a pretty analogy but I would equate it to ignorant slave that did not want to leave master house after the civil war in our country, because they were afraid of what the future has to offer them without masters help to survive, but with no risk, no reward.

This is what America is spreading to your door step if it is not already there!

[colin grayson]

how sad it is that he overwhelming majority of americans are decent people brainwashed by their own government ; or such is my experience ; having spent a year there just pre 911 , I was amazed to find that everything was the property of those who could afford to purchase it , be it political office , education , medical treatment or the more normal things that we expect to be available to us
when my father travelled to the US during WW2 , he described american citizens as the most friendy and hospitable people in the world [ and in 30 years in the Royal Navy of the day he met many !] ; he described how the ordinary working man could , on one pay packet , raise a family , buy a house on a mortgage , and have a car ; riches indeed to a british working man of the 30's

as to the friendliness and hospitality , nothing has changed ; problem was to find a polite way to refuse! met a lady on the bus in NYC who invited us to spend the weekend at her second home in the Hamptons !

but the sad fact was that the quality of life of the average american[ if such a person exists ] has fallen well below western european standards , but they believe that they have the best ; perhaps in a country where they have world championships in which only they participate , one should not be surprised

for me the greatest problem for them has been the media ...if it isn't american , it doesn't exist ; but the internet is just starting to open their eyes a little [ they think it is an american invention ...tim berners-lee must foam at the mouth ] , and things will change faster in the future

so don't give up on america ...the ugly americans you see are very much a minority

[Swift]

I'm with you on this one Sandrine! Bring back Victor Tan... (Is he on holiday?)

[Robert A. Diebold]

President Bush defends his invasion of Iraq with the claim that despots should and must be overturned and the people freed. Saddam, by comparison, was an angel considering the several rulers of African countries who for years have been killing, and starving their people with impunity. Now, what was the reason America -- not to mention Europe -- sit back and allow them to continue with their unspeakable pogroms? Oh yes...Oil. It seems one has to be the despotic leader of an oil-rich country to be worthy of intervention.

Robert A.

[Prabhat]

Perhaps not the most relevant person to offer an opinion but given that I have lived and worked in the States and Europe, along with some Asian economies, I think I can give an outsider's view to this current acrimony.

First of all, I don't think there is a big divide, which may lead to permanent fissures between Europe and States, as one may conclude after reading the comments here. However, there is a recent intellectual disparity between Americans and Europeans. Iraq was and will remain a blip in the history of relations between the US and Europe, much in the same vain as many other historical differences have been.
I don't think the divide today is due to a different approach to life and social values because both communities have been formed and sustained on largely Christian values and continue to do so. I think the difference is more in the way of life Americans and Europeans have come to lead after respective centuries of existence.
Europeans, as a result of their history of internal fighting and lessons (hopefully) from imperialist days, have a more refined view of humanity and what sustains a global community. This has inevitably resulted in having a more careful approach to reaching conclusions, diplomacy and most of all greater regard to fellow human and human tragedies. Having said that it will be wrong of me to assume every European is same. There are different levels of acceptance in European states of the US because of each individual State's own history. In some cases, it will be worthwhile to add, the States' political elite have found it politically expedient to propel their own agenda by egging people on to hate the US.
On the other hand, US has an almost "teenage" approach to its problems and a view that "I know the best". Yes most of the social changes propelled, historically, by the US have been pioneering and helpful to common man at large, however, that has inevitably resulted in a false sense of superiority (not of race but of intellect). Their response to terrorism is perhaps in the same vain.
Having said that, historically and currently, neither Europeans nor Americans can sustain on their own. From economic to cultural reasons either community needs the other.
Whilst Americans can continue to fume with Europeans' "I told you so" chiding, Europeans, on the other hand, can only look at Americans with envy for that spark, energy, drive, creativity and panache that Americans bring to a rather humdrum way of European life.

Personal rhetoric, as noticed here, aside, I don't think any member from either community may even be ready to contemplate how difficult the life would have been if the other had not been there historically, today and tomorrow.

Then again I could be wrong.

[Ed]

As a Brit, I still think America is a great nation made up of mostly good God-fearing folk. Unlike Europe, it hasn't lost the ability to stand up for principles, particularly moral ones. And that, underneath it all, is what bothers many Europeans. I say this even though I am sceptical of recent US foreign policy and opposed the war in Iraq which wasn't so much borne out of principle than out of vengeance and oil. But we all make mistakes that should be forgiven.

[James]

Americans are not 'brainwashed' by the
American government. President Bush reflects the will of the majority of Americans with regard to terrorism - which is precisely why he was reelected.

Now - with regard to Europe (particularly Old Europe) - a great many Americans are fed up and disgusted by the appeasement mentality of Europe and by the trashing of the United States. Most Americans had little respect for the French before the war on terror, now they have virtually none. They have bitter memories of the Germans in WWII, but thought we had become allies and friends; Shroeder ripped that away. Americans remember the sacrifice in WW's I and II, and the long twilight years of the Cold War, where we fought against communism in many parts of the world (while Europe's politicians and professors coddled up to communism). Americans know that, as a previous poster points out, we paid for Europe's defense for decades. Finally, it was America that brought the Cold War to a good and successful conclusion.

Europeans can whine and badmouth the US as much as they want. They are destroying whatever residual respect Americans had for them. Many Americans just see weakness, appeasement and betrayal.

James

[Mark]

I don't know if Bush will ever regret burning bridges with the USA's traditional allies in Europe but I predict that the priority of the next president will actively trying to rebuild them again.
Despite its military might, the USA is no longer a super power. In the modern world it is virtually impossible to bend another country to your will. Iraq has shown that it needs more than Britain and the token support of few other allies. It needs a diplomatic effort that bring in all the traditional countires of the western alliance plus the emerging economies in central europe.
Only if USA and Europe are united will they have any influence upon the rest of the world. Its about time to reassert our common values and culture rather than to fall out.

[colin grayson]

forgive me ed , but I rather had the impression that not even 25 % of adults voted for gwbush , in fact I think more voted for gore
perhaps someone can let me know if this is not correct