Guns

After religion, guns are probably the single most incomprehensible feature of American life to outsiders.

School shootings such as the hideous episode in Amish country this week loom as large in the modern demonology of America that has Europe in its grip as the Iraq war or Guantanamo Bay. They suggest a callous, ruthless society of unchecked homicidal maniacs,  nurtured by a culture that glorifies a kind of violent solipsism.

Sadly, of course, in the wake of such tragedy, the British media can always be relied upon to embellish this image with lazy assertions about the reasons behind the easy availability of firearms. 

The resilience of "gun culture" is not in fact the result of the American media's desire to have lots of good murders to cover nor even is it about the supposed omnipotence of the National Rifle Association. 

It is rooted in part in a fundamentally different attitude towards government and its role in the lives of citizens. But it's a practical matter too. Guns for most Americans are necessary instruments of self-defence. Ban them and you'd leave most innocent, law-abiding Americans gun-less and most of the unlawful guns in the hands of the criminals. Stopping Americans from owning guns would be like stopping them from drinking, an exercise that was tried 80 years ago to little beneficial effect.  Only the consequences of a gun prohibition would be much more lethal.

Comments

[John Middleton]

“So I'm over there in England, you know, trying to get news about the riots... and all these Brit people are trying to sympathize with me... 'Oh Bill, crime is horrible. Bill, if it's any consolation crime is horrible here, too.' ...Shutup. This is Hobbitown and I am Bilbo Hicks, Okay? This is a land of fairies and elves. You do not have crime like we have crime, but I appreciate you trying to be, you know, Diplomatic. You gotta see English crime. It's hilarious, you don't know if you're reading the front page or the comic section over there. I swear to God. I read an article front page of the paper one day, in England, 'Yesterday, some Hooligans knocked over a dustbin in Shafsbry.' ...Wooooo. 'The hooligans are loose! The hooligans are loose! ...What if they become roughians? I would hate to be a dustbin in Shafsbry tonight. (to the tune of "Behind Blue Eyes" by The Who) No one knows what it's like... to be a dustbin... in Shafsbry... with hooligans...' What the HELL are you talkin' about? Hooligans? Roughians? Speak English! It's Crypt, Blood. I mean, I'm sure it's a serious thing, Hooligans, but it just sounds stupid, doesn't it? I picture a bunch of pale guys with pennyloafers and no socks. (to a tune) 'We're the hooligans!' (Sound of knocking dustbin over) 'Come here, you fuckers, come here.' 'Nope! Got-to catch us! If you corner me I might become a scalliwag!' ...It doesn't sound scary at all, does it? They have proper crime there. I'd love to put the hooligans up against the Bloods in LA... that would be a short gang battle. (To a tune, again) 'We're the hooligans!' (sound of dustbin knocking over)-- (boom boom boom *gunshots*). '...huh? Hoola-somethin', I didn't catch it all. Mothafucka danced up to me and patted me on the head. Pale mothafucka, look at that thing.' It wouldn't be a long gang battle. I'm bettin' on the Bloods.”

[Marcia Halvorsen]

I am an American, 66 years of age, a retired professor, and have lived at various times in most parts of the U.S. I suggest my knowledge of the American culture of guns may at least match Mr. Baker's. Poll after poll taken in the U.S. shows that the majority of Americans want more control over the sale of guns and access to them. Yet it is a political death knell if a politician should suggest this. (It was no accident John Kerry had himself photographed hunting during the 2004 campaign). Because of the power of the NRA, there is no possibility of being elected if the candidate suggests even the most minimal controls over guns. Mr. Baker is simply wrong when he states that most Americans do not want gun prohibition. What is interesting, however, about Mr. Baker's commentary is that, in all my reading of the editorials and comments on the latest school shootings in the U.S., his is the only one that even discusses the possibility or impossibility of passing gun control legislation. In the US, even when five Amish girls are slain and another five seriously injured, the story is backburner for the newspapers and certainly no one even suggests that easy access to guns may be a relevant factor. Sadly, Americans, including their newspapers and their elected representatives, know they are defeated by the NRA and its rabid supporters.

[Marion Hermannsen]

Yet, it seems that most mass murders involving guns are NOT committed by known criminals but by normal citizens who at a point of personal breakdown have easy access to guns.

[David Townend]

I shoot rifles and shot-guns myself in a controlled environment (shooting range) when I am visiting friends in the USA, and am very much a supporter of recreational shooting in a responsible manner. This does not extend to supporting 'recreational' shooting on the streets though !

Access to guns in the USA is far too easy. Any idiot can buy a gun in the states, without any testing, training and education to correct firearm usage. Its about time the old tired arguement of 'the Right to bear arms' be put in the closet. The Brits left the USA a long time ago !

Please can Gerard Baker elaborate a little on why it is that banning easy access to guns would increase, rather than decrease violent outbreaks in the USA ?

If Gerards arguement 'holds any water', he should also ponder on why in the UK, where there is a ban in place, we are not totally surrounded by gun toting gangs shooting up the high street all the time ?

The gun law in the USA is totally out of date, and from another time. IMHO people who carry arms, for whatever excuse / reason on the street, should be at the very least seriously vetted by the authorities and only allowed to use them in highly controlled environments.

The NRA needs to support a more resposible attitude to Gun Usage and more importantly Gun Ownership and Storage.

David Townend

[Kristin Sweden/UK]

I think it is both sad and upsetting how Americans often claim that if guns were prohibited honest people would not be able to defend themselves. With the gun laws being the way they are many innocent Americans are killed in gun related crimes every year. I seriously doubt that the number of murders of innocent people would go up if the gun laws were more strict. Just look at the rest of the Western world, where stricter laws are applied, and much fewer people are killed each year.

The problem is not only this, but also the number of children that commit suicide in the US with the help of guns each year. In Canada, where the gun laws are more strict, fewer teenageers try to commit suicide, and the ones that do more often fail, becasue they use less lethal methods than guns, since they do not have access to them. Innocent children are also killed every year in their homes as they play with guns and pull the trigger by mistake- unacceptable. You can never make sure parents have proper safes and keep the guns away from the kids, but you can try to make sure that parents do not have access to a gun in the first place.

Guns will not save innocent people, that sense of security is false, and that is what Americans much realize.

To ban guns is obviously not a solution to all of the problems related to the school shootings, but it is an important step in the right direction. So make America a safer place to be for children, parents and all the average, law-obiding Joes- create stricter gun laws!

[Mark Mc Keown]

Are you really making the case that if the Amish children, or the Amish school teacher, had been armed then the incident would not have happened? Your hypothesis would be that either the killer would have been deterred, since he was obviously suicidal this is unlikely, or that he would have been killed before he killed.

It is clear that owning guns makes people feel safe, just as owning nuclear weapons makes countries feel safe. But does it make them really make them safer? The illusion of safety may of course have some value, but North Korea's aquiring of nuclear weapons, as well as Iran's interest in nuclear technology, is clearly stripping away that illusion for many governments.

[Tucker]

Allow me to say as a life long American.

That many of we American's "DO NOT" own , nor do we want to own guns, or any other type of weapons.

Yes! We have the right to own & bare arms. We learned that 260 years ago, when our dear King George III had his army breaking into our colonial homes, raiding them, arresting innocent folk, and kidnaping their military age sons, than taking them back to Britain to serve in his Army & Navy. Many home were looted & robbed by the British military.

Sure, there are many American men who own rifle's for hunting. Policemen own guns. Plus there are gun collectors. But in general, regardless of what most British may think. America is not some over sized shooting gallery, where people are running around shooting others, and our homes are not bursting with all types of weapons, like they are Christmas decorations.

Why do you Britsh, and Europeans, paint us American's as some trigger happy, killing crazy, lot of people. Because we are not! We live just as nice & peaceful as you do, in our towns, cities, & villages.

Most of us refuse to even think of owning weapons. It's not even in our thoughts to own them.

Concerning religion. American's are no different than any other God fearing nation. We have the exact same Church denominations as say you British.

The average everyday person probably doesn't even attend church on Sunday's any longer. Just like you British folk do not. We don't run arund over here, preaching on street corners, planning to destroy the world for Jesus sake.

We do have evangelical people. But Than, so does Britain. Does Assembly Of God, Elim Churches, & Church Of God ring a bell to you British? Because you have those denominations in full force. Just like America. Baptists too!

I'm sorry, it's just, that I an American, like many other American's, are getting tired of you Brits bashing us around.

We still haven't got that July, 2006 "You Gov" Poll out of our crawl, where you Britsh called us "Vulgar" people.

We know for a fact, that the killings & crime rate in scotland, No. Ireland, & England are high. Many of American's read all your newswpaper's on line today.

Concerning the Amish. They are good peaceful folk. Who bother no one, and they didn't deserve this.

We English American's, and you British English could learn much from these simple God fearing folk, as they stay calm, and they stick together for comfort. Do we??? I think not!

[Haydn Brooks]

Im a student in north carolina, originaly from northamptonshire. i feel as though the gun laws are fair, and make sence if you think outside the box. do you think the 9/11 tradgedies would have happened if certain guns were allowed on aircrafts?

[Haydn Brooks]

Im a student in north carolina, originaly from northamptonshire. i feel as though the gun laws are fair, and make sence if you think outside the box. do you think the 9/11 tradgedies would have happened if certain guns were allowed on aircrafts?

[Kerry Anderson]

I'm an American Citizen that firmly believes in our 2nd Amendment of our constitution, no infringement on the right of Citizens to carry arms. Not only does the statistical data confirm that this right leads to less criminal homocides, (see Wash DC, NY City, Chicago data) but it serves the purpose of preventing Democide (death by government). 20th Century History has shown that one of the 1st rights stolen by tyrants (Hitler, Stalin, Mugabe, Mao + Kymer Rouge and others) is the right of the population to be armed in self defense. Search the www for complete data on the resulting 100,000,000's murdered by their government...Democide is closer than you may think, wake up and face the fact that no one else will actually defend your right to life.

[M. Fernandez]

This was a reasonably fair assessment. I think gun ownership goes to something more fundamental than protection though. Americans are less trustful of government and much more self-reliant than Europeans. It also is part of the Constitution, which is almost a religious document for most Americans. Even Americans who don't own guns are pro-2nd Amendment.

If Europeans could understand religion better, they'd appreciate the simple dignity of the Amish. It's sad and poignant that the best in America was dealt such a harsh blow by the worst. In the end, they accepted it all as God's will. (Presumably these people are considered religious fanatics in Europe, but then they were considered that when they were driven from that continent. Europe's loss is our gain.)

For the European commentators: Gun ownership in America is an American problem and we will deal with it. Why don't you fix the problems (and there are A LOT) in your own backyard.

[Matt]

It's awful when anyone is murdered, especially when the victims are children. I happen to be in favor of stricter gun laws. But much of the media discussion of this issue in the press (especially outside the United States) is highly sensationalized. The US is not awash in violence. Yes, the murder rate is higher in the US than in western Europe, but it is lower in the US than in, for example, Poland. I recently spent several years in Russia, where the murder rate is more than twice as high as in the US, and was frequently asked by ordinary Russians about the supposedly lawless country in which I live.

Gun violence in the US is a problem. It's not a threat to basic public order.

[arpod vespucci]

Brits, get with it. You have such a problem with criminals in your society because they know you aren't able to fight back. political coorectness will be your culture's death. just think, the muzzies use KNIVES to slice your darlings' throats. be careful or you might perish. 2nd amendment FOREVER!!!!

[Joe Black]

I did some research into violent crime in the UK since the imposition of your draconian gun laws; Up across the board, one newspaper ever stated as high as a 150% increase (just google: UK gun crime)

Also, read the articles floating around about the UK "yob" problems and the "knife" culture. No country is purer-than-pure and with 300 million people in a country as vast as the US there is going to be problems.

If you look at all the US cities that have the strictest gun laws what you will see is the highest crime rates; that's a fact.

Banning guns only affects people that abide by the law. Does anyone really think less guns means less crime? Do people truly believe that crime would stop or be reduced if guns were outlawed? I think not, what you will have is a dis-armed populace at the mercy of the criminal (i.e UK).

I do believe that certain things should be mandatory before being allowed to purchase a firearm; safety training, accuracy test with your firearm of choice, waiting period (cool-off), instant background checks...oh wait, most places have these measures in place.

You want an example of effective gun control? Look at Project Exile. Under this program no new laws were created, just the current laws were enforced to the fullest. In Virginia there was a reported 99% decrease in gun crime. How did they do it you ask? If an individual committed a crime with an illegal firearm, regardless if the crime was robbing a candy store of a snickers bar, there was a MANDATORY minimum of 5 years in the klink, and that was the MINIMUM!

Murdering children in school is horrendous, as is murdering any person, but its the criminal that has to be punished not the people that follow the law.

Rant over, thank you Mr. Baker for the opportunity

[Alex Swanson]

"To ban guns is obviously not a solution to all of the problems related to the school shootings, but it is an important step in the right direction."

There's no evidence whatever for this conclusion, as an investigation set up by Bill Clinton was forced to admit, and as the British Home Office will confirm if you write to them. Problems with suicides are best dealt with by tackling the underlying causes of depression, and the argument about the danger to children applies equally to dog ownership, which no-one has a problem with.